admission to Harvard Medical School

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Hello Everyone! I'm a sophomore at high school in Iran. I've just become a member, having found this website while trying to find a liable source to show me the path to Harvard Medical School.

I've done a lot of research online, visited HMS official website and all, but the thing is, though the requirements for admission are mentioned clearly, it's obscure to me as what actions I'll be able to take to meet those requirements. Since I live in Iran, my circumstances are awfully different. To briefly illustrate this difference, I should mention that:
1) The grading system in Iran is not GPA-based, but rather a score out of maximum 20 marks.
2) There's no SAT, MCAT (and literally anything !) being held anywhere.
3) The system of higher education and university is totally different, there's even no such thing as a "college". You would directly go to university for all of your years of education (approx. 7 years for medicine).
4) Volunteering? Gimme a break! Who's using that facility?! I mean there's NO SUCH THING here!
5)Classes and Credits? Just look at this: Anyone in any corner of Iran, will have to pass the same classes, studies the Very same textbook, and finally will take the same university entrance exam (called 'konkur'). I know, that sucks!

There's a lot more to say, but I just wanted to give a big picture of how puzzled I am. Can anyone show me how on earth am I supposed to be granted an admission and scholarship to Harvard Medical School?
(I'm already putting my best effort in studies and I'm ready to do what it takes to get into Harvard, whatever may it be)

P.S: One more thing- I'm currently preparing for "IBO contest (International Biology Olympiad)". I'd like to know that, in case of winning a national or international medal, will that be shining on my resume and be a big advantage to be granted a scholarship?

Thank you very much!

Best choice would be to go to a US undergrad and complete a degree there. International applicants are severely disadvantaged

Sorry. I'm (and most of us, I'd imagine) not really that knowledgable about foreign admissions into medical school. Try emailing the admissions department at Harvard and see what they say. Can't hurt to at least try. You have a unique situation, so the best people to speak on it would be from Harvard. Good luck!

(PS, the IBO would be probably be a plus on your resume if it's recognized by most colleges. Don't know about scholarship, but not a bad thing to try at least).

Originally Posted by bigloley

Best choice would be to go to a US undergrad and complete a degree there. International applicants are severely disadvantaged

Seconded.

Originally Posted by bigloley

Best choice would be to go to a US undergrad and complete a degree there. International applicants are severely disadvantaged

I'm also very limited in my knowledge of international applicant stuff, but I'm also thinking going to a university in the United States and then applying to med school is going to be your best bet. Keep in mind... Harvard is ridiculously, insanely hard to get into. Don't be afraid to explore other options too as you get ready to apply several years from now.

Also, it's nice to meet you

:sigh:

You're not getting into HMS. Sorry bro.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

You're not getting into HMS. Sorry bro.

Surely you're joking "Mr. Feynman!"
Your feeling sorry, has no effect whatsoever on my chances to getting into HMS, unless you're an HMS official telling me so after application. Are you?!
My chances for getting in, are not affected by how hard it is to get in, or how many other people failed in doing so, it's a matter of my own dedication and strong will.
It's typical of many to laugh at ambitious goals, but I've never failed in achieving my goals up to now, so I won't make an exception to HMS.
I guess HMS has got a good place for a gargantuan damn determination.
Time will prove us right or wrong bro, meanwhile I try to do my best.
Thanks anyway!
BTW, where are you getting your education, or planning to get?

Originally Posted by Cephal0pod

I'm also very limited in my knowledge of international applicant stuff, but I'm also thinking going to a university in the United States and then applying to med school is going to be your best bet. Keep in mind... Harvard is ridiculously, insanely hard to get into. Don't be afraid to explore other options too as you get ready to apply several years from now.

Also, it's nice to meet you

Thanks a lot man!
A question popped up in my mind as I read " several years from now". How many years exactly would it be? 'Cause in Iran, we take a university entrance exam at the end of senior year, and after making it to university, there's a straight 7 years to be a GP, and after that some 4 years to be a specialist or so, in condition of passing a special test. Knowing that, can you tell that " several years" would be nearly how many? I'm not obliged to study that 7 years in Iran, and then apply, am I? If not, then I should apply in my senior year, yeah?

Thanks for your help.
Can you tell me more about this undergrad stuff? I've heard about it, but I still don't have a clue how is that going to be and what you're supposed to do in that stage.
Also, when would one apply for undergrad, and how many years would it take?
And what are the good options for it?

Originally Posted by AntiHouseMD

Sorry. I'm (and most of us, I'd imagine) not really that knowledgable about foreign admissions into medical school. Try emailing the admissions department at Harvard and see what they say. Can't hurt to at least try. You have a unique situation, so the best people to speak on it would be from Harvard. Good luck!

(PS, the IBO would be probably be a plus on your resume if it's recognized by most colleges. Don't know about scholarship, but not a bad thing to try at least).

Oh, that' lovely! But stating that I'm an Iranian high school sophomore, should I expect an answer? or I'll be doing so just for the fun of it?!

A thought: before you start worrying about getting into HMS, why not worry about whether you have to do undergrad in the United States beforehand?

Harvard, like other well known schools, has its own agenda and quotas to fill. The quality and/or dedication of the students applying is not necessarily what gets you in. Do some more research and you'll see that there are many medical schools around the country that will give you an education just as good if not better. Don't get hung up on the name...among well- educated people names do not mean much...btw, getting in a US medical school as an international student is everything but easy, even for extremely well-qualified applicants. There are plenty of well-qualified american applicants.

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Surely you're joking "Mr. Feynman!"

Nope.

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Your feeling sorry, has no effect whatsoever on my chances to getting into HMS, unless you're an HMS official telling me so after application. Are you?!

lol

My chances for getting in, are not affected by how hard it is to get in, or how many other people failed in doing so, it's a matter of my own dedication and strong will.

lol x2

It's typical of many to laugh at ambitious goals, but I've never failed in achieving my goals up to now, so I won't make an exception to HMS.

lol

BTW, where are you getting your education, or planning to get?

This quote shows you only care about name and prestige, rather than actually wanting to be a physician. Don't get hung up on the name, brah. It's that assumption that 'prestige trumps all' that will keep you out of medical school in general. As for your question, I've already been accepted to medical school (for all intents and purposes).

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

My chances for getting in, are not affected by how hard it is to get in, or how many other people failed in doing so, it's a matter of my own dedication and strong will.
It's typical of many to laugh at ambitious goals, but I've never failed in achieving my goals up to now, so I won't make an exception to HMS.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

I've already been accepted to medical school (for all intents and purposes).

@ArmaNewton:

Ambitious goals are great and all that, but what you're doing is like worrying about board certification in a specialty before you even pass the initial medical licensure exams in the United States. +1 to previous advice that you worry about college in the United States first. Just as food for thought, there are a lot of people on SDN who will tell you that big names in medical education -- Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo, and the rest -- may or may not be as important as college kids like to think they are, especially considering the kind of money a lot of people spend on them.

I am two months away from being in my fourth and final year of medical school at a non-"big" name school, and I'm happy. People from my school put up some serious board scores and match into competitive specialties in competitive places every year.

As far as Gigantron goes, if I remember correctly, he is in a program which some places in the US offer that combines an undergrad degree and medical degree into one, usually shaving a year off the undergrad portion in the process. Google BS/MD and BA/MD. People in these programs are "accepted to medical school" so long as they meet certain performance markers in the undergrad portion of the program but are college students for the time being. Don't let him get to you.

You are a sophomore in high school in Iran right? I think the best course of action for you would be to prepare yourself for applying for college in the US. While in Iran prepare for taking the SAT or ACT as well as TOEFL. Apply to American universities for a 4 year bachelors degree. You were confused what undergrad is? Undergrad is what your first degree seeking program in college is called after graduating high school. In the US you graduate high school, apply to college, complete 4 years of undergrad studies and then apply for 4 years of medical school.

Getting into the top tier medical schools in the US such as Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Wash U, Stanford etc... is not just a function of a strong academic record. A strong academic record is a pre-requisite but not enough. These schools look for applicants that have a demonstrated interest in research, strong extracurriculars and an ambition to do things beyond becoming a community physician. When you come to the US for college you will have time to explore different options and understand if going to such a school would be a good fit for you and your future goals.

harvard kheyli sakhte vali shoma yad ro bishtar tamrin koni. Bebaksheed, man farsi khoob balad neestam, bekhatare man farsi khoob nist bache bood.

Work hard.

Originally Posted by torshi

harvard kheyli sakhte vali shoma yad ro bishtar tamrin koni. Bebaksheed, man farsi khoob balad neestam, bekhatare man farsi khoob nist bache bood.

Work hard.

Bad nabud, be ghole maroof torshi nakhori ye chizi mishi

You live in Iran, but are you a dual (Iran & US) citizen? That'd make things much easier...

Originally Posted by exi

As far as Gigantron goes, if I remember correctly, he is in a program which some places in the US offer that combines an undergrad degree and medical degree into one, usually shaving a year off the undergrad portion in the process. Google BS/MD and BA/MD. People in these programs are "accepted to medical school" so long as they meet certain performance markers in the undergrad portion of the program but are college students for the time being. Don't let him get to you.

I'm sure the OP has thick skin. Internet posts shouldn't rile people up, but they do and it's funny.

I did include the statement "for all intents and purposes" because straight up saying "I've been accepted to medical school" would be false.

What I said about prestige still rings true, imo.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

Nope.


lol


lol x2


lol


This quote shows you only care about name and prestige, rather than actually wanting to be a physician. Don't get hung up on the name, brah. It's that assumption that 'prestige trumps all' that will keep you out of medical school in general. As for your question, I've already been accepted to medical school (for all intents and purposes).

Your statement "that's prestige which keeps you out of medical school" seems logical to me and I accept it, but discouraging a kid who has asked you for help, a kid whom you don't even know, is well beyond justifiable.

If I asked about your school and all, I just wanted to get to know you and be friendly, That's all. I wasn't looking for the "name" of your school. You tried to be mockish (and still u are), and I wanted to end my post by wiping out any signs of hostility.

If I wanted prestige, I could stay in Iran and be the best among many, rather than going somewhere and be a mediocre or even worse. I'm still a sophomore, I could go and enjoy myself, why even bother? I just want the real challenge, that's all.
I might be big-headed, but I'm not pig-headed.

If there's something you think I'm unaware of, just tell me. That's why I've asked the question, to get ideas from you, not to get lol'ed at, my friend.

Originally Posted by torshi

harvard kheyli sakhte vali shoma yad ro bishtar tamrin koni. Bebaksheed, man farsi khoob balad neestam, bekhatare man farsi khoob nist bache bood.

Work hard.

Salam! "yad" chiye dige?!
"Farsi khub nist bache bud"? What does it mean? The translation would go" Farsi is not good to be a kid" ! What do you mean by that?!!!!!

Shoma Irani hastin? Nakone Farsi yadetun rafte, ha?!
Chera emsetun torshiye?!

Originally Posted by SU1989

You live in Iran, but are you a dual (Iran & US) citizen? That'd make things much easier...

Unfortunately not, otherwise it would've been a breeze as you said, :sigh:

Originally Posted by pooghe

Bad nabud, be ghole maroof torshi nakhori ye chizi mishi

Salam hamvatan! Migam ishun Irani hastan? Mishe "yad" va "farsi bache khub nist" ro tarjome konin?!!
Shoma chi mikhunin, koja mikhunin, to iran budin daneshgah ham raftin ya bad az dabirestan tunestin berin?
Rastesh kheili soala azatun daram!

Originally Posted by pooghe

While in Iran prepare for taking the SAT or ACT as well as TOEFL.

Well, I already have my TOEFL, which is about to expire and I will have to take it again. Whereas there's no SAT, ACT being held in Iran. Shoma tu Iran budin SAT dadin?

Originally Posted by pooghe

When you come to the US for college you will have time to explore different options and understand if going to such a school would be a good fit for you and your future goals.

So as it goes, the biggest problem now would be to get into US, not any school of any kind!
But what's the best time for a migration? Can I make it after I finish high school? (considering that you were born in Iran, right?)
Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by pooghe

Bad nabud, be ghole maroof torshi nakhori ye chizi mishi

merci :P torshi khosham miad. bebaksheed, farsi e man bad ast

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Salam hamvatan! Migam ishun Irani hastan? Mishe "yad" va "farsi bache khub nist" ro tarjome konin?!!
Shoma chi mikhunin, koja mikhunin, to iran budin daneshgah ham raftin ya bad az dabirestan tunestin berin?
Rastesh kheili soala azatun daram!

bebaksheed, man yek mah hast ke farsi ray ad migiram

Originally Posted by exi

Ambitious goals are great and all that, but what you're doing is like worrying about board certification in a specialty before you even pass the initial medical licensure exams in the United States. +1 to previous advice that you worry about college in the United States first. Just as food for thought, there are a lot of people on SDN who will tell you that big names in medical education -- Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo, and the rest -- may or may not be as important as college kids like to think they are, especially considering the kind of money a lot of people spend on them.

Thanks a million, I really appreciate that. Would you please elaborate on your last point, the money stuff?

Originally Posted by exi

I am two months away from being in my fourth and final year of medical school at a non-"big" name school, and I'm happy. People from my school put up some serious board scores and match into competitive specialties in competitive places every year.

Oh, that's magnificent! I cross my fingers for you in your remaining a-year-and-two-month of education!

Originally Posted by AntiHouseMD

A thought: before you start worrying about getting into HMS, why not worry about whether you have to do undergrad in the United States beforehand?

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I've gotten the point.

Now can anyone tell me more about applying for undergrad, for international applicants?

Originally Posted by torshi

bebaksheed, man yek mah hast ke farsi ray ad migiram

Just one month? You gotta be way too much talented!
BTW, why are you learning Persian? Where are you from?

Originally Posted by plauto

Harvard, like other well known schools, has its own agenda and quotas to fill. The quality and/or dedication of the students applying is not necessarily what gets you in. Do some more research and you'll see that there are many medical schools around the country that will give you an education just as good if not better. Don't get hung up on the name...among well- educated people names do not mean much...btw, getting in a US medical school as an international student is everything but easy, even for extremely well-qualified applicants. There are plenty of well-qualified american applicants.

Thanks for that. I got the point on the "name" thing I guess.
But set everything aside, doesn't the fact that someone is a shining graduate from a tough school, have a humble effect (if not more) on his future and all? That has to be a good advantage when applying for a job or something, isn't it?

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Just one month? You gotta be way too much talented!
BTW, why are you learning Persian? Where are you from?

From U.S, I'm half Persian, but was never taught when I was young so it kinda sucks.

Eh, let him dream. When he's older he'll figure out that Harvard isn't everything. I was the same way sophomore year.

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Thanks for that. I got the point on the "name" thing I guess.
But set everything aside, doesn't the fact that someone is a shining graduate from a tough school, have a humble effect (if not more) on his future and all? That has to be a good advantage when applying for a job or something, isn't it?

what's a tough school? Are you implying famous schools are tougher? That's not how it works. Specifically, medical education in the US is standardized so all MD schools teach pretty much the same stuff.

You need to come to the US (or Canada) as soon as possible. Do you have some family here that could sponsor you? The ideal path would be that you move here by the end of this summer, do year 3 and 4 of high school here, take the SAT, get into a decent state/public school here, maintain a 4.0 gpa while volunteering and doing research and you will have a good shot at reaching your goal.

You should be aware that the system here is not like in Iran. Harvard Medical School is just a name, the education you received there won't be any different than at other top medical schools in the US. Your rank within your class is more important than the rank of your school. That means that the top students from Harvard and the top students from say UCLA, or UCSF, or UMichigan, UWash, etc would be considered equal when applying for specialties, the worst students at Harvard would be considered equal to the worst students at the other schools for the most part.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

You're not getting into HMS. Sorry bro.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

lol
lol x2
lol

OP, ignore Gigantron. He has a history of posting bad/misleading info and him trying to demoralize you is simply an extension of his elitist complex. You can get into HMS if you have the qualifications.

Originally Posted by Gigantron

I'm sure the OP has thick skin. Internet posts shouldn't rile people up, but they do and it's funny.

funny he says that because he himself got riled by internet posts and became grammar nazi/psychoanalyzer in chief...

Originally Posted by Gigantron

*You're
You seem insecure with yourself. Hopefully that party helped your ego in need of constant validation.

seems he doesn't have thick skin himself.

oh, and he's known to be the type that gives really misleading information bordering on lying:

Originally Posted by Gigantron

So I my advisor (a biochemistry professor at my university) told me that he would be more than willing to write a LOR for medical school when the time comes. This same person will eventually be my professor for Biochemistry when I take it, but the thing is I will have already finished applying to medical schools by the time I start Biochemistry. So, he would be writing the LOR for me as my advisor and not as my biochemistry professor. Would this technically count as a Science LOR since the person writing it is a science professor?

kinda like he did here:

Originally Posted by Gigantron

As for your question, I've already been accepted to medical school...

...and he knew it would be misleading when he said it:

Originally Posted by Gigantron

...straight up saying "I've been accepted to medical school" would be false.

for this reason:

Originally Posted by exi

As far as Gigantron goes, if I remember correctly, he is in a program which some places in the US offer that combines an undergrad degree and medical degree into one, usually shaving a year off the undergrad portion in the process. Google BS/MD and BA/MD. People in these programs are "accepted to medical school" so long as they meet certain performance markers in the undergrad portion of the program but are college students for the time being. Don't let him get to you.

He's still not in yet. I had a friend who got accepted to one of these, and couldn't maintain the GPA and crashed. He just recently recouped and graduated from of the University of Antigua Medical School, and not X USMD school. Although I will say that the academic rogor of the course load he takes is... well... I could pass it at 4.0 blindfolded:

Originally Posted by Gigantron

As it stands, I'm currently set to take 17 credits for the next semester. The classes basically include:
-Math
-Gen Chem II
-Gen Bio II
-English
-Intro to Music (required to graduate)
However, I'm also interested in taking a CPR course but it is 3 credits...

He does NOT go to medical school, he is a freshman in college who gives advice that is questionable.

So in conclusion, just remember Armatron, the only place on sdn with personalities that can be worse than the pre-allo thread is hsdn. Watch out, and good luck.

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

Hello Everyone! I'm a sophomore at high school in Iran. I've just become a member, having found this website while trying to find a liable source to show me the path to Harvard Medical School.

I've done a lot of research online, visited HMS official website and all, but the thing is, though the requirements for admission are mentioned clearly, it's obscure to me as what actions I'll be able to take to meet those requirements. Since I live in Iran, my circumstances are awfully different. To briefly illustrate this difference, I should mention that:
1) The grading system in Iran is not GPA-based, but rather a score out of maximum 20 marks.
2) There's no SAT, MCAT (and literally anything !) being held anywhere.
3) The system of higher education and university is totally different, there's even no such thing as a "college". You would directly go to university for all of your years of education (approx. 7 years for medicine).
4) Volunteering? Gimme a break! Who's using that facility?! I mean there's NO SUCH THING here!
5)Classes and Credits? Just look at this: Anyone in any corner of Iran, will have to pass the same classes, studies the Very same textbook, and finally will take the same university entrance exam (called 'konkur'). I know, that sucks!

There's a lot more to say, but I just wanted to give a big picture of how puzzled I am. Can anyone show me how on earth am I supposed to be granted an admission and scholarship to Harvard Medical School?
(I'm already putting my best effort in studies and I'm ready to do what it takes to get into Harvard, whatever may it be)

P.S: One more thing- I'm currently preparing for "IBO contest (International Biology Olympiad)". I'd like to know that, in case of winning a national or international medal, will that be shining on my resume and be a big advantage to be granted a scholarship?

Thank you very much!

Keep trying.....You seem like exactly the kind of person Harvard (any of the schools) are interested in. The best advice I can give is to contact the school directly. Speak to someone and explain your situation.

aval biya amrika licanse begir, bad fekon keh beri harvard.
agar too zendegit kareh maqsoose nakardebashi , harvard nemikhadat

Originally Posted by ineed2stpsmurfn

blah blah blah

Whatever it is I did to p*ss you off, I'm glad I did it. And what you're doing is making me very happy.

Originally Posted by ineed2stpsmurfn

OP, ignore Gigantron. He has a history of posting bad/misleading info and him trying to demoralize you is simply an extension of his elitist complex.

...

He's still not in yet.

...

He does NOT go to medical school, he is a freshman in college who gives advice that is questionable.

Yeah, that's what I said. His acceptance is contingent on performance, and he is a college student -- freshman, apparently -- in the meantime.

ArmaNewton: what I meant by money is that a lot of the big name medical schools tend to be very expensive, whereas other non-Ivy, less competitive schools are less so. There are still scholarships and all that, but a lot of people rack up a pretty big bill at the end of four years of tuition and cost of living.

yea i agree, those bs/md programs are not a guarantee that' someone in one will be a doctor in the same manner acceptance to us md/do school relatively is. ppl definitely fail out of them.

Originally Posted by I'm No Superman

Eh, let him dream. When he's older he'll figure out that Harvard isn't everything. I was the same way sophomore year.

1. First off, I never said that Harvard is "Everything". No, I'd never say such a thing.

2. I AM a big dreamer, but I've kept my hard work just as big. It's about midnight right now, I have planned 4 more hours of study, and I know I'm gonna do that rain or shine.

3. I've already learned a lot of things from this thread which has expanded my horizons.

Originally Posted by exi

ArmaNewton: what I meant by money is that a lot of the big name medical schools tend to be very expensive, whereas other non-Ivy, less competitive schools are less so. There are still scholarships and all that, but a lot of people rack up a pretty big bill at the end of four years of tuition and cost of living.

May I know how much your school's annual tuition fee is?

Originally Posted by plauto

what's a tough school? Are you implying famous schools are tougher? That's not how it works. Specifically, medical education in the US is standardized so all MD schools teach pretty much the same stuff.

Oh, I see. Thanks for that.
But what about the community of schools, the unions and stuff? Can't we put forth such an argument in that respect?

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

May I know how much your school's annual tuition fee is?

I'm a Texas resident, and medical schools are notorious for being relatively inexpensive for us as compared to the rest of the US. Actual tuition is north of $10,000, but when you put fees and various costs of living on top of that -- rent, bills, etc. -- you can easily triple that number (or more) in a year.

For comparison, back in 2010, the AAMC measured the average debt of brand-new MDs, including college debt, at roughly $158,000. Here's the source PDF for that.

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

1. First off, I never said that Harvard is "Everything". No, I'd never say such a thing.

Orly?

Originally Posted by ArmaNewton

( I'm ready to do what it takes to get into Harvard, whatever may it be)

please keep the discussion in this thread civil. thanks.

Originally Posted by I'm No Superman

Orly?

You think the two statements are contradictory? They are far apart, each in different contexts and intended for articulating different ideas. No mon ami, you don't know my intentions.

Originally Posted by exi

I'm a Texas resident, and medical schools are notorious for being relatively inexpensive for us as compared to the rest of the US. Actual tuition is north of $10,000, but when you put fees and various costs of living on top of that -- rent, bills, etc. -- you can easily triple that number (or more) in a year.

For comparison, back in 2010, the AAMC measured the average debt of brand-new MDs, including college debt, at roughly $158,000. Here's the source PDF for that.

I am so much grateful for your help, my friend.

Hey whatever man, I don't really care either way.

I honestly hope that you do well enough to get into Harvard, I really do.

Extrapolating from your past, saying that "I've never failed at achieving my goals, and HMS won't be an exception", is just ridiculous though. That's like saying I've never lost a debate in debate class, so I'm going to be a lawyer at HLS.



...but saying you will do what ever it takes to achieve something definitely implies that it means a significant amount to you.