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Dude don't cross post.

I think this is part of the reason why colleges and higher education is becoming more female dominated too. Some guys realize its no longer worth the investment as much and take riskier paths in life such as starting a business, doing physical labor jobs or just getting degrees such as engineering where only a bachelors can lead to an above average or even double the average income. (funny thing is there is a lot of math in optometry so its basically like you are doing engineering anyway) I believe when the government stops subsidizing people with their 6.8% and 7.9% unsubsidized, undisbursable by bankruptcy loans then the tuition will plateau or even burst.

Like seriously guys? The interest rates on savings accounts and CDs are like less than 1% and yet you take out 7.9% slave loans. Don't be stupid. If you can't afford it then do not do it. Or you'll end up like Jason K with 200k in debt working commercial and trolling these forums day in and day out.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Don't be stupid. If you can't afford it then do not do it. Or you'll end up like Jason K with 200k in debt working commercial and trolling these forums day in and day out.

Trolling? I love this. Anyone posting information that you don't want to hear is "trolling." Wake up Shnurek. As I've said before, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's not valid.

You've been told, by many, many ODs (and students) on this site, that you are downright clueless and it's with good reason.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Dude don't cross post.

Like seriously guys? The interest rates on savings accounts and CDs are like less than 1% and yet you take out 7.9% slave loans. Don't be stupid. If you can't afford it then do not do it. Or you'll end up like Jason K with 200k in debt working commercial and trolling these forums day in and day out.

No, what is stupid is going to optomery school and expecting to become an surgeon.

Originally Posted by bobbio

No, what is stupid is going to optomery school and expecting to become an surgeon.

I don't expect to be doing cataract surgeries ever but nothing wrong with a little bit of laser surgery, epilation and foreign body removal.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I don't expect to be doing cataract surgeries ever but nothing wrong with a little bit of laser surgery, epilation and foreign body removal.

Sorry, dude. There's no going back. A couple of weeks ago you were on here advocating that ODs be allowed into surgical residencies - one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here ever....and that's saying a lot given some of the postings.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I don't expect to be doing cataract surgeries ever but nothing wrong with a little bit of laser surgery, epilation and foreign body removal.

Please do not expect this when you come out. Trust me when I say you'd be better off concentrating on things like how to repair glasses, how to create glasses from blanks, and educating yourself on the materials and styles of PALs. These are the skills that would benefit you in private practice; rather than injecting kenalog for styes.

How many MDs and ODs would be at your level with this knowledge base? This is what your patient's "expect" of you, regardless of what service you may "think" you are expected or want to provide.

Originally Posted by Meibomian SxN

Please do not expect this when you come out. Trust me when I say you'd be better off concentrating on things like how to repair glasses, how to create glasses from blanks, and educating yourself on the materials and styles of PALs. These are the skills that would benefit you in private practice; rather than injecting kenalog for styes.

How many MDs and ODs would be at your level with this knowledge base? This is what your patient's "expect" of you, regardless of what service you may "think" you are expected or want to provide.

I'll learn this stuff as well. This MD I worked as a technician for taught me that it is best to know everything from making appointments to billing insurance to ordering supplies to procedures so that if someone tries to blackmail you in leaving your practice you will not be dumbfounded. No matter how menial the task it should be known fully. Also, as a side note I am planning to not be limited to where I will move after OD school. I'd prefer to go rural to underserved areas where I will get paid more (10% more by medicare) and at the same time be the only "eye" person around for miles. Not to mention more diverse pathology walking in. I've lived in the city my whole life and I'm sick of it. Kind of like the small town person that just HAS to move to the city except the opposite.

[QUOTE=Shnurek;12337658]Dude don't cross post.

(funny thing is there is a lot of math in optometry so its basically like you are doing engineering anyway)

This is the same retarded logic that has my colleagues telling OMDS "Well I read alot about how lasers work in school so I know how to shoot a laser now". (true story..one of my colleagues told a group of OMDs that at a regional eye meeting...you shouldve seen the smirk on their faces when he left.) I think its statements like those that make OMDs think the louder more vocal parts of our community are fools..and I mostly agree.

My wife is a mechanical engineer and if you think the math we do is even comparably close to the math an engineer does, you've gone bonkers.

Shoot..I read about rockets the other day on Yahoo and I do math when I calculate Rxs and contact lenses..I am pretty much a rocket scientist now.

I watched Lebron the other night on TV, read about how a ball bounces on google and shoot hoops in my driveway...I am ready to hit the NBA

No sure about all this jibber jabber about the future of optometry etc... but wanted to call out an ignorant statement right there.

I agree with Meibomian on the injecting chalazion statement...if you think you are going to have a practice full of chalazion injections good luck. The steroid expires after 1 month once you open it, so if you don't use it all completely, you made the $60 on the injection and lost $150 on the steroid bottle. You better be injecting a lot of styes if you plan on making a profit doing that. Most general OMDs send it out to oculoplastics anyway because they don't want to deal with it and lose money.

Shnurek seems a little delusional...

Originally Posted by auburnO5

Shnurek seems a little delusional...

But, he did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Originally Posted by Visionary

But, he did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

lol wut?

OK, mclem I concede. I may have exaggerated my statements a bit.

Lets step into thecgrblue's home for a moment.

Wife: What are you doing?
Me: Watching an argument.
W: Between who?
Me: I'm not sure, want to see?
W: Sure. *comes over* Oh, not your stupid forum again.
Me: No, no, just read, its amusing.
W: *starts reading* That Meibomian guy is scary looking. *reads more* Chuck Norris approved...haha, thats rich. *scroll* *scroll*. Yea, I don't understand why you find this so entertaining.
Me: Its like watching a train wreck sometimes. Other times it is informative.
W: One more thing, why is that Shhhhhrrrrrunecker (her pronounciation) guy have a sideways view of a topless woman's torso as a picture? I mean, does that look like a boob to you?
Me: *stare at screen* *stare harder* *bursts into laughter* It is a boob! *continues laughing*

Seriously, Shrunek. What the hell is your avatar?

The cornea in blue light

Originally Posted by thecgrblue

Lets step into thecgrblue's home for a moment.

Wife: What are you doing?
Me: Watching an argument.
W: Between who?
Me: I'm not sure, want to see?
W: Sure. *comes over* Oh, not your stupid forum again.
Me: No, no, just read, its amusing.
W: *starts reading* That Meibomian guy is scary looking. *reads more* Chuck Norris approved...haha, thats rich. *scroll* *scroll*. Yea, I don't understand why you find this so entertaining.
Me: Its like watching a train wreck sometimes. Other times it is informative.
W: One more thing, why is that Shhhhhrrrrrunecker (her pronounciation) guy have a sideways view of a topless woman's torso as a picture? I mean, does that look like a boob to you?
Me: *stare at screen* *stare harder* *bursts into laughter* It is a boob! *continues laughing*

Seriously, Shrunek. What the hell is your avatar?

Originally Posted by thecgrblue

Lets step into thecgrblue's home for a moment.

Wife: What are you doing?
Me: Watching an argument.
W: Between who?
Me: I'm not sure, want to see?
W: Sure. *comes over* Oh, not your stupid forum again.
Me: No, no, just read, its amusing.
W: *starts reading* That Meibomian guy is scary looking. *reads more* Chuck Norris approved...haha, thats rich. *scroll* *scroll*. Yea, I don't understand why you find this so entertaining.
Me: Its like watching a train wreck sometimes. Other times it is informative.
W: One more thing, why is that Shhhhhrrrrrunecker (her pronounciation) guy have a sideways view of a topless woman's torso as a picture? I mean, does that look like a boob to you?
Me: *stare at screen* *stare harder* *bursts into laughter* It is a boob! *continues laughing*

Seriously, Shrunek. What the hell is your avatar?

Now, that was some serious funny!

Have to say I had the same initial impression about the avatar, but I agree that it's a slit lamp photo of an iris with cobalt blue illumination.

Sent from my Droid Incredible on SDN Mobile

Originally Posted by Meibomian SxN

Please do not expect this when you come out. Trust me when I say you'd be better off concentrating on things like how to repair glasses, how to create glasses from blanks, and educating yourself on the materials and styles of PALs. These are the skills that would benefit you in private practice; rather than injecting kenalog for styes.

Great advice. Concentrate on your bread and butter rather than chasing after skills that you will barely use and will likely not provide much of a profit for your practice.

lol here's a close up:



I think this gives me more reason to leave it up lol so people mistake it as a female organ.

Originally Posted by speyeder

Great advice. Concentrate on your bread and butter rather than chasing after skills that you will barely use and will likely not provide much of a profit for your practice.

Actually, there are many ODs that come out and go to areas where they can get onto medical insurance panels, promote eye disease treatment, dress in scrubs etc. They make a lot of profit because medical panels pay more.

Ahhhhhhh yes....there it is. Pupils apparently can look like breasts sometimes.

Originally Posted by thecgrblue

Ahhhhhhh yes....there it is. Pupils apparently can look like breasts sometimes.

Especially with the nip-like reflex on the right.

Originally Posted by Visionary

Especially with the nip-like reflex on the right.

o wow now I see it...didn't know what the heck everyone was talking about until now - alien titties

Originally Posted by Visionary

Especially with the nip-like reflex on the right.

Exactly.

I guess you could carve a niche in optometry by giving breast augmentation implants based off pupil size.

"Now, do you want your cup size to be 'full moonlight' or 'waxing moonlight'?"

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Actually, there are many ODs that come out and go to areas where they can get onto medical insurance panels, promote eye disease treatment, dress in scrubs etc. They make a lot of profit because medical panels pay more.

Ah yes because wearing scrubs automatically makes you look like a MD and gains you more respect and eye disease patients. Guess I should start wearing scrubs outside the OR more.

Originally Posted by MR1

Ah yes because wearing scrubs automatically makes you look like a MD and gains you more respect and eye disease patients. Guess I should start wearing scrubs outside the OR more.

Just sayin' what people do. You have your techs wearing lab coats and/or scrubs. Didn't know it is copyrighted, your highness.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Just sayin' what people do. You have your techs wearing lab coats and/or scrubs. Didn't know it is copyrighted, your highness.

Optometrists who wear scrubs make me laugh. They just come across as a bunch of wannabes with an inferiority complex.

Originally Posted by namams

Optometrists who wear scrubs make me laugh. They just come across as a bunch of wannabes with an inferiority complex.

I believe you just described Shnurek

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Just sayin' what people do. You have your techs wearing lab coats and/or scrubs. Didn't know it is copyrighted, your highness.

Think about the functional purpose of scrubs, Shnurek. Then you might actually see why ODs who wear them, as a rule, look like massive tools. It's like a private pilot getting all "geared up" in a navy fighter pilot's jumpsuit and hopping into his single engine saying "Uhhhhhh...I just wear it 'cause it's comfortable." It makes you look like a complete knob - please do us all a favor and refrain from wearing scrubs in your Walmart jobs. The vest and smiley button really won't go with the outfit anyway.

Even in your "rural" setting, the animals still might rip on you.

Bro, I wore scrubs as an ophthalmic technician when I was doing refractions and consulting patients on LASIK/PRK. Was it necessary then? So a tech can wear scrubs but how dare a Doctor of Optometry specializing in ocular disease wear scrubs. You guys do your thing, I'll do mine.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Bro, I wore scrubs as an ophthalmic technician when I was doing refractions and consulting patients on LASIK/PRK. Was it necessary then? So a tech can wear scrubs but how dare a Doctor of Optometry specializing in ocular disease wear scrubs. You guys do your thing, I'll do mine.

No, actually it wasn't. And I never said you didn't look like a douche when you wore your "tech" scrubs.

I thought you would be able to understand what I was implying, but apparently I have to spell it out. Scrubs have functional use - they're meant to be worn in "medical" environments that might expose the wearer to bodily fluids and other general nastiness. That way, the can be cleaned in a nuclear reactor if needed.

If you're an OR nurse, an ER physician, and oral surgeon, a resident in the ICU, or a salesperson for a scrub manufacturer, then you probably belong in a pair of nice, soft, comfy green scrubs. If you're an OD "specializing in ocular disease" (which, by the way, is not legal to do), then you most definitely do not belong in a pair of scrubs unless you want to look like an entire chest of tools. Think back to my pilot example - it's quite fitting.

I had an OD professor who used to wear scrubs to lecture. He also carried a pager so he could be reached immediately if someone needed an emergency RGP fitting or a 911 level bacterial conjunctivitis walked in. It was a cataclysmic display of an OD inferiority complex at work. Remember that the next time you think about putting on your next pair.

I actually think lab coats are incredibly toolish too.

Originally Posted by syma

I actually think lab coats are incredibly toolish too.

I'd disagree with the white lab coat. The scrubs I'd definitely give a miss. I'd venture to say wearing a stethoscope in the front pocket or around the neck is being toolish though.

Originally Posted by Meibomian SxN

I'd disagree with the white lab coat. The scrubs I'd definitely give a miss. I'd venture to say wearing a stethoscope in the front pocket or around the neck is being toolish though.

There's someone that commutes on the same train as me in the morning with a stethoscope around his neck in the morning.

Originally Posted by syma

I actually think lab coats are incredibly toolish too.

As a fellow eye care professional, I'll say my lab coat has significant utility. Holds my pen, scleral depressor, lens box, dictaphone, as well as the battery pack for my Spectra Plus BIO. In addition, it protects my shirt and tie from frictional damage, as the BIO hangs around my neck all day. Sure, it might protect my clothes from the rare dye spill or blood drop (while giving angiograms), but it's more for the utility.

Originally Posted by Jason K

No, actually it wasn't. And I never said you didn't look like a douche when you wore your "tech" scrubs.

I thought you would be able to understand what I was implying, but apparently I have to spell it out. Scrubs have functional use - they're meant to be worn in "medical" environments that might expose the wearer to bodily fluids and other general nastiness. That way, the can be cleaned in a nuclear reactor if needed.

If you're an OR nurse, an ER physician, and oral surgeon, a resident in the ICU, or a salesperson for a scrub manufacturer, then you probably belong in a pair of nice, soft, comfy green scrubs. If you're an OD "specializing in ocular disease" (which, by the way, is not legal to do), then you most definitely do not belong in a pair of scrubs unless you want to look like an entire chest of tools. Think back to my pilot example - it's quite fitting.

I had an OD professor who used to wear scrubs to lecture. He also carried a pager so he could be reached immediately if someone needed an emergency RGP fitting or a 911 level bacterial conjunctivitis walked in. It was a cataclysmic display of an OD inferiority complex at work. Remember that the next time you think about putting on your next pair.

A well tailored suit is to women what lingerie is to men.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Visionary

As a fellow eye care professional, I'll say my lab coat has significant utility. Holds my pen, scleral depressor, lens box, dictaphone, as well as the battery pack for my Spectra Plus BIO. In addition, it protects my shirt and tie from frictional damage, as the BIO hangs around my neck all day. Sure, it might protect my clothes from the rare dye spill or blood drop (while giving angiograms), but it's more for the utility.

LOL, I've never stopped to ask how the consultants in England manage without lab coats ever since they were banned.

Originally Posted by Visionary

As a fellow eye care professional, I'll say my lab coat has significant utility. Holds my pen, scleral depressor, lens box, dictaphone, as well as the battery pack for my Spectra Plus BIO. In addition, it protects my shirt and tie from frictional damage, as the BIO hangs around my neck all day. Sure, it might protect my clothes from the rare dye spill or blood drop (while giving angiograms), but it's more for the utility.

Exactly. And I also don't have to worry abut ironing my shirts in the morning when I wear it

Originally Posted by syma

There's someone that commutes on the same train as me in the morning with a stethoscope around his neck in the morning.

I also saw a guy like this on my subway. Looks and acts like a total prick even though he might be a medical student, its still not an excuse.

Originally Posted by Jason K

I had an OD professor who used to wear scrubs to lecture. He also carried a pager so he could be reached immediately if someone needed an emergency RGP fitting or a 911 level bacterial conjunctivitis walked in. It was a cataclysmic display of an OD inferiority complex at work. Remember that the next time you think about putting on your next pair.

Let them do what they want what do you care. We take blood pressure on our assessments so does that mean we can't wear stethoscopes around our necks in school ever? There are ocular disease residencies and hospital jobs that have ODs on call and a lot of them hate being on call and no they do not have inferiority complexes. In fact I think I have a superiority complex because I'll be out in 4 years, save a load of money and have Rx privileges/simple procedure privileges/insurance panel placement that most MDs/DOs don't have until they finish residency. I don't want to be an eye surgeon. I want to be an eye doctor.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Let them do what they want what do you care. We take blood pressure on our assessments so does that mean we can't wear stethoscopes around our necks in school ever?

You're welcome to wear as many stethoscopes as you want, but you'll still look like a complete poser.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

There are ocular disease residencies and hospital jobs that have ODs on call and a lot of them hate being on call and no they do not have inferiority complexes. In fact I think I have a superiority complex because I'll be out in 4 years, save a load of money and have Rx privileges/simple procedure privileges/insurance panel placement that most MDs/DOs don't have until they finish residency.

Yes, I'm sure there are thousands of medical residents out there who long to have the vast prescibing rights of the newly minted OD. Wow.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I don't want to be an eye surgeon. I want to be an eye doctor.

Sorry, I don't believe you. When you get out of school and you're tripping over 50 lb bags of fertilizer and giving directions to the underwear section, dodging herds of shoppers looking for bargains on boxed wine and frozen 500 ct bags of chicken nuggets, you'll wish you had studied a little harder and gone to med school.

I like this Jason K guy.... lol

Screw ya'll guys I'm going to try to go to Oklahoma and do a surgical residency. You can have fun in your commercial "garbage bin" Jason K. I'm going to do something with my career and upstage some OMDs along the way.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Screw ya'll guys I'm going to try to go to Oklahoma and do a surgical residency. You can have fun in your commercial "garbage bin" Jason K. I'm going to do something with my career and upstage some OMDs along the way.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Screw ya'll guys I'm going to try to go to Oklahoma and do a surgical residency. You can have fun in your commercial "garbage bin" Jason K. I'm going to do something with my career and upstage some OMDs along the way.

Ummmm.....what happened to "I want to be an eye doctor, not an eye surgeon?" Also, there's no such thing as an OD surgical residency, despite the fact that you'd like to think otherwise. You can do a residency in anterior segment disease which incorporates therapeutic lasers. That is not equivalent to a surgical residency.

For someone who doesn't want to be a surgeon, you sure talk a lot about surgical training. Be happy with refraction, CL fittings, treating routine external pathology, and maybe when you're really want to feel cool, an inflammatory disorder or some uncomplicated glaucoma. If you don't understand that you will be doing that for most of your day, even in a "disease" setting, you still don't understand the ODs role in health care. If you don't like it, you should think seriously about your career choice. I mean that with the utmost sincerity.

I know it is still like 90% medical and 10% surgical. The point is I want to be trained to the fullest extent possible as an OD.

http://www.theoptometricproceduresin.../About_US.html

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I know it is still like 90% medical and 10% surgical. The point is I want to be trained to the fullest extent possible as an OD.

http://www.theoptometricproceduresin.../About_US.html

Dude, you are saddling up for a serious icy cold bath when reality sets in. You would be hard-pressed to find a single private practice OD on this planet who does "90%" medical. Optometry is a profession built on refractive correction and all that goes with it. The other stuff is add on.

You're in another world of delusion, dude. As I've said before - you seem to want to make optometry into something it isn't. If you wanted to practice medicine, you should have gone to med school.

OK Jason K. Lets round up all the optometrists and have then nullify all the progress optometry has made in the past 30 years. Lets give up the ability to get onto medical panels. Lets give up the ability to diagnose eye disease. Lets give up the ability to perform minor surgical procedures. Lets give up the ability to treat eye diseases. Lets give up the ability to prescribe oral, topical and injectable medications. You work on that K? And then just do refractions the rest of your life. You do your thing. I'll do mine. And hop off.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

OK Jason K. Lets round up all the optometrists and have then nullify all the progress optometry has made in the past 30 years. Lets give up the ability to get onto medical panels. Lets give up the ability to diagnose eye disease. Lets give up the ability to perform minor surgical procedures. Lets give up the ability to treat eye diseases. Lets give up the ability to prescribe oral, topical and injectable medications. You work on that K? And then just do refractions the rest of your life. You do your thing. I'll do mine. And hop off.

Shnurek, if you'd simply stop handing out medical, optometric, and career advice for 5 seconds and actually read/understand what is in front of you, you'd see that I did not say anywhere that ODs should give up their ability to treat medical conditions. What I said was, "Private ODs do not spend 90% of their day doing medical diagnostics and treatment." That is a statement of fact that any rational OD would support. You don't seem to understand the role of the OD in health care. There might be VA docs who do mostly medical, but even they spend most of their day doing periodic exams on veterans and their families. You're in a dream world in which ODs spend their day doing FAs, anterior seg laser procedures, CK, foreign body removals, etc. It just doesn't happen. If you don't accept that, you're in the wrong field.

Originally Posted by Jason K

Shnurek, if you'd simply stop handing out medical, optometric, and career advice for 5 seconds and actually read/understand what is in front of you, you'd see that I did not say anywhere that ODs should give up their ability to treat medical conditions. What I said was, "Private ODs do not spend 90% of their day doing medical diagnostics and treatment." That is a statement of fact that any rational OD would support. You don't seem to understand the role of the OD in health care. There might be VA docs who do mostly medical, but even they spend most of their day doing periodic exams on veterans and their families. You're in a dream world in which ODs spend their day doing FAs, anterior seg laser procedures, CK, foreign body removals, etc. It just doesn't happen. If you don't accept that, you're in the wrong field.

While I was shadowing in an OD/ophtho practice I asked the OD how often he gets to do other procedures (such as chalazion, FB removal, etc.). He said he had 2 FBs the year prior and he will do a handful of chalazions a year.

I was disappoint very hard.

Where did I say ODs do this all day? I am talking about legally being able to do them and getting paid for them. And as for the residency, it is indeed 90% medical and 10% surgical or so. There are practices out there that are mostly medical but they are in the minority. I understand exactly what I am getting into. I shadowed a lot of ODs here in NY and in other states ODs do more than here. I have no problem doing refractions and CL fittings. I enjoy that too. I never said I did not, you may have misunderstood me. In fact I am contemplating doing a CL residency but right now I like ocular disease more. For me doing any kind of office job is great. I have no doctors in my family and I worked as a porter in the summer. Worst job ever, pretty close to being a mind numbing doorman which I was as well. So for me optometry or medicine are both amazing and life will take me where I need to go.

Originally Posted by thecgrblue

While I was shadowing in an OD/ophtho practice I asked the OD how often he gets to do other procedures (such as chalazion, FB removal, etc.). He said he had 2 FBs the year prior and he will do a handful of chalazions a year.

I was disappoint very hard.

What state did you shadow in?