Match Day 2012......????

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

The USMLE is offered at least 25 times every year.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.

You can't think of a single reason why having two opportunities to take and pass an exam that determines whether or not you match or are forced to take a year off might be a good idea? Acute Illness? Car Accident? Family tragedy the day before?

Why is it that when people make examples for the masses, they chose very specific situations that should be handled on an individual basis? For those outstanding circumstances, there will always be room for second tries.

A student this year got to the testing center without realizing their DL was expired, wasn't allowed to take the exam and had to take it the 2nd offering.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Did this student know he or she would be required to produce valid picture identification to sit for the examination? If so, they screwed up and I have no sympathy. They should have checked their ID MONTHS prior to make sure everything was in order. This happens in all aspects of your career. Make that mistake on your Surgery Boards, especially if your status is about to run out and you are SOL and the ABPS doesn't and shouldn't give a rip. Your career can change that quickly. Be prepared for life's responsibilities or you will have issues.

Car accidents and family tragedies are unavoidable.

Some things are avoidable. Make sure you have all the avoidable issues taken care to minimize your chances of stirring trouble for yourself.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

For those outstanding circumstances, there will always be room for second tries.

Offering only those with "outstanding circumstances" a second try makes more sense to you than having a second established open test date?

Who decides what the criteria is to qualify for a second try?

Why are you opposed to the idea of all students having 2 opportunities to pass Part 2 before the match?

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Make that mistake on your Surgery Boards, especially if your status is about to run out and you are SOL and the ABPS doesn't and shouldn't give a rip.

This comparison is not remotely analogous. You can practice without ABPS certification, you cannot match without passing Part 2.

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

Offering only those with "outstanding circumstances" a second try makes more sense to you than having a second established open test date?

Yes, it does.

Who decides what the criteria is to qualify for a second try?

The panel you present yourself to to plead your case.

Why are you opposed to the idea of all students having 2 opportunities to pass Part 2 before the match?

I'm not opposed to it. I just don't get it. Big difference.

This comparison is not remotely analogous. You can practice without ABPS certification, you cannot match without passing Part 2.

In some communities, such as the one I left, being ABPS is really the only way to have a practice. Without ABPS, you can't get on most insurances and can't get on hospital staff.

Let's say 10% fail part two twice. Should we then say we should give them three tries? Where does it end? Eliminate the requirement to get through part two? Then what?

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Let's say 10% fail part two twice. Should we then say we should give them three tries? Where does it end?

You are allowed to attempt the USMLE/APLME as many times as you want. There are 3 opportunities each year for the APMLE Part 2 and 25+ for the USMLE.

EDIT: this italicized part is incorrect. I checked the candidate bulletin again for the most recent info and a 6 attempt max for each USMLE Step went into effect January of this year. It would be interesting to know what prompted the change, the last conversation I had related to the subject gave me the impression a limit was not even under discussion. The APMLE still has no attempt limit.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

The panel you present yourself to to plead your case.

I can only imagine the level of litigation that would result from this set up.
It is extremely risky from a legel perspective to make candidate eligibility a subjective process. This is why there is no limit on the number of attempts by a single candidate as well. If you pass Part 1 and complete the coursework required, you are eligible and you may attempt the exam as many times as you wish.


EDIT: see above

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Eliminate the requirement to get through part two? Then what?

This is a ridiculous straw man argument. Absolutely no one but you has suggested this action.

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

You are allowed to attempt the USMLE/APLME as many times as you want. There are 3 opportunities each year for the APMLE Part 2 and 25+ for the USMLE.
This is why there is no limit on the number of attempts by a single candidate as well. If you pass Part 1 and complete the coursework required, you are eligible and you may attempt the exam as many times as you wish.

Wait. Are we talking about passing the exam itself or in the appropriate time frame to make the match? The argument here is that you have a shot (or two) to pass the examination BEFORE match day. I don't care if it takes you 20 times to pass the examination, but to hold up the process for everyone else, so a few can squeak by makes no sense to me.

This is a ridiculous straw man argument. Absolutely no one but you has suggested this action.

It IS ridiculous. You're right. The current situation is because of something equally ridiculous in my eyes. Shift a curriculum so it is in direct conflict with the timing of an examination which is necessary to get to the next stage of your career, and then because of that have to shift the examination (or offer it twice) to accommodate this new curriculum.

How many times can a Med student take the USMLE previous to match day? Do all med students take it the first time it's offered, or is the examination offered 25 times a year to accommodate students' schedules? With a completely computer randomized examination, that CAN work.

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

I can only imagine the level of litigation that would result from this set up. It is extremely risky from a legel perspective to make candidate eligibility a subjective process. This is why there is no limit on the number of attempts by a single candidate as well. If you pass Part 1 and complete the coursework required, you are eligible and you may attempt the exam as many times as you wish.

Sorry, but this is how it is even in the allopathic world. If you miss an examination of any kind, the REASON is evaluated and there ARE panels that monitor this. I know, because I was on one.

And AGAIN, I don't care how many time it takes you to pass the examination. That's not what we are talking about here. We're talking about passing it BEFORE match day. How many chances do you get???

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Sorry, but this is how it is even in the allopathic world. If you miss an examination of any kind, the REASON is evaluated and there ARE panels that monitor this.

The existence of appeals panels is not up for debate. Don't try to muddy the waters on this.

We are talking eligibility to re-take the USMLE/APMLE only.

You suggested that students who fail the January APMLE offering should not have a second opportunity to take the exam before the match unless they go before an appeals panel and ask.

No other exam imposes that kind of subjective decision making on routine board exam candidate eligibility, and for obvious good reason.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

. We're talking about passing it BEFORE match day. How many chances do you get???

There are offerings throughout the year and it's my understanding that you can take it for the first attempt whenever you feel ready. Scores are out roughly 3 weeks after the exam. How many times before match day would depend when you took it initially.


The number of attempts at the USMLE Step 2 CK before the match is determined by student decision.

The APMLE is only offered in January, March and May of each year.

I'm really not sure what you "don't get", but I have exhausted my time available to spend discussing the issue. Perhaps someone else will be able to offer more pertinent insight.

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

We are talking eligibility to re-take the USMLE/APMLE only.

Because of an emergency situation, yes.

There are offerings throughout the year and it's my understanding that you can take it for the first attempt whenever you feel ready. Scores are out roughly 3 weeks after the exam. How many times before match day would depend when you took it initially.

I didn't know all the above information. Maybe it would behoove Podiatry to take a page out of this if this is what students feel is more fair. Thanks for the information.

Interesting discussion. I'm not opposed to students getting the opportunity to take the boards more than once before the match, but I am opposed to pushing the match back to April to get it accomplished.

April 9. Possibly the following week depending upon when the test is scored. NBPME board members last week at the APMA HOD in Washington DC were not confident that the test would be scored prior to April 2.

Did you speak to an NBPME board member directly? I tried hard to get match dates, but no dice. I heard different on scoring dates but you must have first hand info to be posting, so thanks for the update.

Originally Posted by PodAdmin

April 9. Possibly the following week depending upon when the test is scored. NBPME board members last week at the APMA HOD in Washington DC were not confident that the test would be scored prior to April 2.

I dont understand. What do these people do all day at work? If this is your #1 priority why does it take so long to get these scores graded?

Raw scores are produced almost instantly after the test is administered and are sent to NBPME and school deans. Unfortunately, there are only so many times that the NBPME board can meet after the administration of a APMLE exam. The NBPME board is made up of current clinicians, professors, statisticians, and administrators with differing schedules. Once the raw scores are disseminated to NBPME, they go through each question to determine the statistical validity of the question and subsequent answers. Unfortunately, this is a very time-intensive and inefficient procedure and often takes weeks for a test to properly be scored.

Originally Posted by PodAdmin

Raw scores are produced almost instantly after the test is administered and are sent to NBPME and school deans....Once the raw scores are disseminated to NBPME, they go through each question to determine the statistical validity of the question and subsequent answers. Unfortunately, this is a very time-intensive and inefficient procedure and often takes weeks for a test to properly be scored.

Why are raw scores sent to the deans before the statistical validity of the exam items is determined?

Originally Posted by that1guyfromFL

Why are raw scores sent to the deans before the statistical validity of the exam items is determined?

I'm curious about this as well.

This is to provide the Deans with an overall idea as to how well the class as a whole performed on an unadjusted, raw score scale. There are no identifiers as to how well individual students performed on the examination, but rather shows class data and individualized scores with no identifying information.

either way, it's unacceptable that there are 3 months in between interviews and match

Originally Posted by PodAdmin

Raw scores are produced almost instantly after the test is administered and are sent to NBPME and school deans. Unfortunately, there are only so many times that the NBPME board can meet after the administration of a APMLE exam. The NBPME board is made up of current clinicians, professors, statisticians, and administrators with differing schedules. Once the raw scores are disseminated to NBPME, they go through each question to determine the statistical validity of the question and subsequent answers. Unfortunately, this is a very time-intensive and inefficient procedure and often takes weeks for a test to properly be scored.

I think the only logical answer to this problem is to charge the students another $900 and take the test again.

Just heard from our dean that Match day is tentatively scheduled for next Monday, April 2 at 11 am...

This is correct.

Originally Posted by TFP2B

Just heard from our dean that Match day is tentatively scheduled for next Monday, April 2 at 11 am...

Confirmed today as well. Can't wait till next week!

Is it finalized?

Bumping this thread. Where did you guys match today and what podiatry school are you from?

I heard someone from AZPOD hacked the system a few days ago... Is that true?

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

I heard someone from AZPOD hacked the system a few days ago... Is that true?

nope

where is everybody?? what time were the results out?

The match results were released at 11am. You can see what programs are currently scrambling Here. I'm surprised at the lack of top programs on this list. There are a few, but not many. As usual, the state of New York has the most spots open (there are 53 residency programs in the New York tristate area).

thanks! Curious...why do some of the programs indicate they are 24 months and not 36?

Originally Posted by flyhi

thanks! Curious...why do some of the programs indicate they are 24 months and not 36?

I may be wrong, but programs aren't forced to be a 36 until next year. I wonder if these are truly 2 year spots still.

Also, I think the PMSR Cert means that you also earn your rearfoot certification. I think when all programs go to PMSR 36, only some will qualify you in rearfoot surgery, and these are the PMSR Cert programs. Anyone have a more concrete answer?

Yeah, I found out yesterday. I matched! I don't know who hacked the system. All that was done was to erase a word in the web address bar and then type in a few words and then we were able to see out match. All of the 4th year students received an email saying that some students accessed the match results early and that try were not finalized. Early yesterday, the students that did not pass boards the 2nd time were still in the system as matching. Then yesterday afternoon, they updated the match and some programs changed for some of my classmates. It was cool to see where I was going a day early. Congrats to all that matched and good luck to those who scrambled.

Originally Posted by dtrack22

nope

yup.

Wow. It seems to me that there are A LOT of unfilled positions. Is it just me?

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

yup.

The system wasn't "hacked", and it wasn't a student from the school you mentioned...so no. I find it funny how often you comment on things that you clearly have little to no knowledge of.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Wow. It seems to me that there are A LOT of unfilled positions. Is it just me?

87% of the available seats were filled with the match. But I couldn't tell you if that is a low number compared to years past. If I'm remembering correctly from last year, there are a few more unfilled seats this year, but there are also a few more brand new programs and new seats at existing programs that may have been harder to fill. I'll check with someone who will know

Originally Posted by dtrack22

The system wasn't "hacked", and it wasn't a student from the school you mentioned...so no. I find it funny how often you comment on things that you clearly have little to no knowledge of.

You don't seem to be laughing?

But seriously, who figured that out?

Originally Posted by dtrack22

87% of the available seats were filled with the match. But I couldn't tell you if that is a low number compared to years past. If I'm remembering correctly from last year, there are a few more unfilled seats this year, but there are also a few more brand new programs and new seats at existing programs that may have been harder to fill. I'll check with someone who will know

Should there be an assumption that there will be no shortage this year, then?

Official Statistics as reported by CASPR

Positions available: 503
Contending applicants: 530
Matched applicants: 440
Positions unfilled: 63
Applicants unmatched: 90

Spots are filling up. Good Luck to all those are scrambling

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Should there be an assumption that there will be no shortage this year, then?

There hasn't been an official report regarding national pass rate for part II. But it is pretty safe to assume that somewhere north of 40 students did not pass part II even after the second offering. So subtract those 40 from the 530 (that's how many 4th years originally filled out a CASPR app) and you have just under 490 new graduates and 503 spots. In my opinion, that should not be considered a "shortage"

Originally Posted by dtrack22

There hasn't been an official report regarding national pass rate for part II. But it is pretty safe to assume that somewhere north of 40 students did not pass part II even after the second offering. So subtract those 40 from the 530 (that's how many 4th years originally filled out a CASPR app) and you have just under 490 new graduates and 503 spots. In my opinion, that should not be considered a "shortage"

Agreed.

Its QUITE an oversight allowing any backdoor way to find out results early. At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal but still a little embarrassing for caspr.

Yeah the AACPM was NOT happy. But in my opinion the only person they should be mad at is themselves or the site manager

I was surprised to see that Jon Steinberg's program in D.C. has a spot and that Paul Stone's program in Denver has a spot. These are top notch residency directors with a wealth of knowledge and skill.

Originally Posted by PADPM

I was surprised to see that Jon Steinberg's program in D.C. has a spot and that Paul Stone's program in Denver has a spot. These are top notch residency directors with a wealth of knowledge and skill.

Yeah there are a handful of really good programs out there and of course the usual suspects.

Originally Posted by JackedUp

Official Statistics as reported by CASPR

Positions available: 503
Contending applicants: 530
Matched applicants: 440
Positions unfilled: 63
Applicants unmatched: 90

Spots are filling up. Good Luck to all those are scrambling

So the 90 applicants unmatched: are those all people who are eligible (passed part 2) or does that include those who didn't pass as well?

ok seriously, has anyone matched or what?

Originally Posted by PADPM

I was surprised to see that Jon Steinberg's program in D.C. has a spot and that Paul Stone's program in Denver has a spot. These are top notch residency directors with a wealth of knowledge and skill.

For Washington Hospital Center, Stephen Kominsky was the director (as you probably know) until this year, and during interviews the program still didn't have a permanent director.. I'm sure causing hesitation among prospective applicants. I suspect that if they would have had Steinberg (for sure) during interviews, no spots would have been left over.

Originally Posted by jeffersonswall

For Washington Hospital Center, Stephen Kominsky was the director (as you probably know) until this year, and during interviews the program still didn't have a permanent director.. I'm sure causing hesitation among prospective applicants. I suspect that if they would have had Steinberg (for sure) during interviews, no spots would have been left over.

I know Steve and wasn't aware that he was no longer the director. I'm obviously out of the loop, and haven't spoken with him in a long time. What was the reason that he is no longer the director?

Originally Posted by PADPM

I know Steve and wasn't aware that he was no longer the director. I'm obviously out of the loop, and haven't spoken with him in a long time. What was the reason that he is no longer the director?

Yeah me either!

What's the scoop???

Originally Posted by Podophile

Its QUITE an oversight allowing any backdoor way to find out results early. At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal but still a little embarrassing for caspr.

I don't know if everyone had the same problem as me when I tried to access the match results, but once it hit 11:00 AM, the site showed an error message every time I clicked on my results for a few minutes. I already knew where I was going (not because I accessed the site through a backdoor), and it still made me anxious! I can only imagine how it was for those who didn't know

I don't know if/when we'll get an official list of where everyone is going, but just from word of mouth here are most of the places AZPod is sending students this year:


Covenant Medical Center - Waterloo, IA
DVA Denver - Denver, CO
DVA Palo Alto - Palo Alto, CA
DVA Phoenix x3 - Phoenix, AZ
Fountain Valley Regional Medical Center - Fountain valley, CA
Henry Ford Macomb - Clinton Township, MI
Intermountain Medical Center - Murray, UT
Jewish Hospital and St. Mary's Healthcare - Louisville, KY
John Peter Smith - Fort Worth, TX
Kaiser Santa Clara x2 - Santa Clara, CA
Legacy x2 - Portland, OR
Madigan Army Medical Center - Tacoma, WA
Northside Medical Center - Youngstown, OH
Oakwood Annapolis - Wayne, MI
Ochsner Medical Center - Kenner, LA
Scott and White x2- Temple, TX
St. Mary Mercy Livonia - Livonia, MI
Swedish Medical Center - Seattle, WA
United Health Health Services Hospitals x2 - Johnson City, NY
University of Texas Health Science Center x2 - San Antonio, TX

I am sure that I missed some, but that is what I can remember off the top of my head. Good luck to all those still scrambling!

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Yeah me either!

What's the scoop???

Long story short is that he was forced out. I know one of the residents there who told me some of what happened.