How much extra would you pay for an MD?

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[I made another account to protect my privacy.]

I'm in a pickle right now. I am a KS resident and was not accepted at my only state school. I have been accepted at both the University of South Carolina, as an OOS student, and also to KCUMB. Great news, right? Maybe not. Here are my choices:

U. of South Carolina: allopathic, $60,500 per year (tuition and fees)

KCUMB: osteopathic (well-known as far as DO schools are concerned), $44,000 per year

Cost of living will be comparable. That ~$15,000 difference works out to $60,000 over four years, and to God knows what after interest. My question for SDN is this: Is the MD degree worth an extra $60,000 or more?

P.S. I told my interviewers I want to go into primary care, and that's what my PS was about. And, honestly, I am interested in IM or OB/GYN. But gastroenterology also really interests me, as does EM. So it's not necessarily a "If you're going into primary care, go with the cheapest school" kind of deal. Thanks.

Get the MD. You'll have less trouble matching into a well paid specialty

I approve of and am disgusted the screen name.

What goals do you have for yourself after med school?

yes, even though you want to be in primary care, chances are your preference will change in medical school

Originally Posted by PhiPhenomenon

I approve of and am disgusted the screen name.

What goals do you have for yourself after med school?

Pretty much exactly what my original post said. Maybe primary care, maybe a specialty. EM in a nice suburb would be fun - no trauma, just typical old people problems.

I've thrown the MD/MPH idea around. This would be really interesting and would unite what I studied in undergrad (an earth science) and grad school (a social science) with medicine. However that's a year of paying tuition and not earning a salary, so it probably won't happen. Hope that helps.

I'd pick the MD, but still look at all other factors (location, etc.).

Originally Posted by Stumpyman

I'd pick the MD, but still look at all other factors (location, etc.).

GREAT point that I should have mentioned in my original post. Columbia, SC has a superior climate. Kansas City has snowy winters, though? Lol. Not sure about safety of the different campuses - maybe someone can chime in.

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

Pretty much exactly what my original post said. Maybe primary care, maybe a specialty. EM in a nice suburb would be fun - no trauma, just typical old people problems.

I've thrown the MD/MPH idea around. This would be really interesting and would unite what I studied in undergrad (an earth science) and grad school (a social science) with medicine. However that's a year of paying tuition and not earning a salary, so it probably won't happen. Hope that helps.

I think I agree with everyone else on this thread. Since you aren't sure what area you want to specialize in, almost no body does, I would say the MD is worth it just to keep your options open. Barring some extreme circumstance I don't think you should turn down the MD acceptance.

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

GREAT point that I should have mentioned in my original post. Columbia, SC has a superior climate. Kansas City has snowy winters, though? Lol. Not sure about safety of the different campuses - maybe someone can chime in.

Never been to Kansas city, but I used to live in SC. It is generally a great place, there are nice beaches (if you care for those), the people are pretty nice, some areas are pretty bad, but it's not like the difference between south LA and west LA (I think south is pretty dangerous and west is good, not sure, but you know what I mean ).

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

GREAT point that I should have mentioned in my original post. Columbia, SC has a superior climate. Kansas City has snowy winters, though? Lol. Not sure about safety of the different campuses - maybe someone can chime in.

Having lived in SC for a couple years, I'd probably go with Kansas City. But that's just me... I prefer snowy winters over hot and muggy summers any day. I'm not too fond of SC in general... I picked UVA over USC, but I feel that considering the reputation of both schools, it wasn't that difficult of a decision to make, even if it would have meant a lot less debt going to USC.

USC does allow you to get in state tuition after your first year. I'm not sure if you factored that into your calculations (I can't remember what their tuition is for OOS students), but it's something that you should consider.

I approve of OP's screenname.

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Originally Posted by mvenus929

Having lived in SC for a couple years, I'd probably go with Kansas City. But that's just me... I prefer snowy winters over hot and muggy summers any day. I'm not too fond of SC in general... I picked UVA over USC, but I feel that considering the reputation of both schools, it wasn't that difficult of a decision to make, even if it would have meant a lot less debt going to USC.

USC does allow you to get in state tuition after your first year. I'm not sure if you factored that into your calculations (I can't remember what their tuition is for OOS students), but it's something that you should consider.

If that's true, it's a done deal.

For anyone in a similar situation, note that my immediate family is in KS (but gradually relocating to to SC) and most of my extended family is in SC. If my family was all in the Pacific Northwest, for example, and I was choosing between a local DO school and an MD school 2500 miles away, things would have been different. However, in this case I'll be near lots of family - aunts, uncles, cousins, my little sis at MUSC, and my parents when they retire. Just fyi for people balancing degree "prestige" with cost, support system, etc.

Choose the MD, only need to take the USMLE, better matching potential, and no OMM to take.

Originally Posted by gaystains

I approve of OP's screenname.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

I approve of yours!

Debt can be handled if you take out only what you need to, spend as little as possible, and carefully manage your money after you get a regular salary. You will not be the first, or last, person to have to pay back an atrocious amount of student loans.

If USC really does give you in-state tuition after a year, then it should be a done deal, as you've stated. If not (I don't know if that's true or not) then I would still go with the MD for reasons similar to those stated above, as well as the fact that in this country, the MD degree is far more recognized than the DO, and we have yet to leave the stigma of DO as an inferior/"alternative" medical education. If you did ever choose to go into a medically related career that did not involve directly practicing (such as public health, which you mentioned earlier), your MD from a fairly well-known school will carry far more weight than a DO.

This is actually a good hypothetical question. I made a poll a while back comparing an expensive MD school to an inexpensive DO one and the MD won - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=833238

But where do we draw the line? What if you were getting a DO at full scholarship vs. an MD at $60k a year? At what tuition + COL difference, if any, would one go DO over MD?

Loan forgiveness in primary care = go for MD (ps: Santorum is the stupidest candidate in terms of science and life, just sayin)

If you're considering a specialty at all then go for MD. Just less hassle. Plus I bet you'll end up w/ some kind of financial aid package from your school that includes grants.

If family is a big deal and being close is important, go to KCUMB as it is much closer. If you don't have any major reason to stick around, go to the MD school.

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

[I made another account to protect my privacy.]

I'm in a pickle right now. I am a KS resident and was not accepted at my only state school. I have been accepted at both the University of South Carolina, as an OOS student, and also to KCUMB. Great news, right? Maybe not. Here are my choices:

U. of South Carolina: allopathic, $60,500 per year (tuition and fees)

KCUMB: osteopathic (well-known as far as DO schools are concerned), $44,000 per year

Cost of living will be comparable. That ~$15,000 difference works out to $60,000 over four years, and to God knows what after interest. My question for SDN is this: Is the MD degree worth an extra $60,000 or more?

P.S. I told my interviewers I want to go into primary care, and that's what my PS was about. And, honestly, I am interested in IM or OB/GYN. But gastroenterology also really interests me, as does EM. So it's not necessarily a "If you're going into primary care, go with the cheapest school" kind of deal. Thanks.

KCOM, as I understand, relies heavily on preceptor-based rotations (we can argue 'til the cows come home, but in general, this is a bad thing). Go to USC and learn at an academic medical center

Man, if I followed the beliefs of Rick Santorum, there's no way I could be in medicine without feeling like I was contradicting myself ...

Seriously, I would go to the MD school....$15K is not chump change but it's not a dealbreaker in my point of view especially if you factor in all the challenges in the residency process and the thought that you might not want to do primary care at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

[I made another account to protect my privacy.]

I'm in a pickle right now. I am a KS resident and was not accepted at my only state school. I have been accepted at both the University of South Carolina, as an OOS student, and also to KCUMB. Great news, right? Maybe not. Here are my choices:

U. of South Carolina: allopathic, $60,500 per year (tuition and fees)

KCUMB: osteopathic (well-known as far as DO schools are concerned), $44,000 per year

Cost of living will be comparable. That ~$15,000 difference works out to $60,000 over four years, and to God knows what after interest. My question for SDN is this: Is the MD degree worth an extra $60,000 or more?

P.S. I told my interviewers I want to go into primary care, and that's what my PS was about. And, honestly, I am interested in IM or OB/GYN. But gastroenterology also really interests me, as does EM. So it's not necessarily a "If you're going into primary care, go with the cheapest school" kind of deal. Thanks.

Is it really that bad trying to get a residency as a DO rather than an MD? Or is it just more work; like an extra set of testing?

Your tuition numbers for USC are wrong for out of state. Been there, done that....you are going to be >70K for tuition your first year. Assuming they dont change anything policy wise you will drop back to instate which is only ~32K. Also Columbia is very very cheap to live in...my rent is less than $400 for a pretty spacious/nice apartment. Although I assume Kansas is also pretty cheap to live in?

Also USC has some perks beyond the typical MD/DO argument like a 4 year ultrasound curriculum...which includes getting your own personal v-scan 3/4 year.

Also South Carolina doesn't really have "winter" like Kansas does...which is awesome.

Kansas City sucks, and when you turn it upside down it blows. Lived there for several years. Yes, it's snowy. Yes, it's dirty. No, it's not always the safest place to be. Do yourself a favor and go to SC.

Originally Posted by robertch8

Man, if I followed the beliefs of Rick Santorum, there's no way I could be in medicine without feeling like I was contradicting myself ...

Originally Posted by Jarudy

(ps: Santorum is the stupidest candidate in terms of science and life, just sayin)

OP is clearly using "Santorum" in this sense.
"DEFINITION: SANTORUM
Pronunciation: san-TOR-um
1. The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex.
2. Former Senator Rick Santorum"

OP's name is Santorum Surge, get it now? Yeah... it's gross... but that's the point.

Originally Posted by inmyimmddo

Is it really that bad trying to get a residency as a DO rather than an MD? Or is it just more work; like an extra set of testing?

"Bad" means different things to different people, but DO's are generally at a disadvantage when applying for ACGME residencies. This is especially true for ACGME residencies at academic centers.

Remember, also, that DO schools generally have very, very limited research and are not affiliated with research universities. DO schools also do not generally have their own teaching hospital.

"How much extra would you pay for an MD?"

I don't think this is the right way to look at it. You should look/ask for the specific school's match rates and see if they have comparable statistics in the fields you're interested in. Also look at the statistics as a whole, if they're dramatically different you should probably go MD because you never know if your interest will change throughout medical school.

But if you're asking how much would one pay for just for the name or prestige, that's just silly to me. I'm not going to pay $50,000+ more just for a title. As long as I can see patients, give medical advice, write prescriptions, and engage clinical trials, I'm happy.

I think the general consensus on SDN is to obtain an M.D.

Originally Posted by minkshag

OP is clearly using "Santorum" in this sense.
"DEFINITION: SANTORUM
Pronunciation: san-TOR-um
1. The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex.
2. Former Senator Rick Santorum"

OP's name is Santorum Surge, get it now? Yeah... it's gross... but that's the point.

And what better way to denigrate an idiot than to equate his name with poop? Thank you, Dan Savage.

unless you have a reason for choosing DO over MD other than money, go MD. Even though it is basically the same thing, there is still stigma attached with DO.

Originally Posted by crazyasian

unless you have a reason for choosing DO over MD other than money, go MD. Even though it is basically the same thing, there is still stigma attached with DO.

Random: every time I see your username, I mentally shorten it to "crasian". Is that weird?

I'm pretty sure USC makes it easy to become a resident for tuition purposes, so you'll likely only pay OOS tuition for one year. I would go to USC.

Fuck the whole stigma argument. If you have big enough balls of your own you wont care about the possibility of someone looking down on your for the exact same degree they have with different letters.

That being said. Dont go to a DO school unless you dont have a choice. Its a massive pain in the ass to learn OMM. The AOA is hell bent on keeping DOs in the past and is an overall malignant organization that doesnt represent your goals as a 21st century DO. Not to mention the whole acgme match issue.

Dont do it...trust me. I am a DO student who never even applied MD...and I regret it every day.

Originally Posted by willen101383

Dont do it...trust me. I am a DO student who never even applied MD...and I regret it every day.

Ouch...

Originally Posted by PhiPhenomenon

Ouch...

Yep. Its better than not being a doctor but I'd much rather ski downhill in 2 feet of fresh powder than trek uphill through thornbushes on the way to my castle. Same endpoint...one way less painful.

Originally Posted by TheMightySmiter

Random: every time I see your username, I mentally shorten it to "crasian". Is that weird?

lol your right...that is random

Originally Posted by willen101383

Yep. Its better than not being a doctor but I'd much rather ski downhill in 2 feet of fresh powder than trek uphill through thornbushes on the way to my castle. Same endpoint...one way less painful.

I hear that.

Considering the obstacles I have, inadvertently, set up for myself, just trying to get into med school is probably THE most obnoxious thing I've ever done. But gosh dumnit, I wanna be a doctor.

Originally Posted by PhiPhenomenon

I hear that.

Considering the obstacles I have, inadvertently, set up for myself, just trying to get into med school is probably THE most obnoxious thing I've ever done. But gosh dumnit, I wanna be a doctor.

Hey man do what you gotta do. I came back from one of the worst GPAs ever to grace SDN and have been pretty damn successful in med school....just wish I had actually tried to get into an MD school vs going right to DO. Live and learn. End of the day I'll be a doc....besides I am almost through the thorns.

Originally Posted by willen101383

Hey man do what you gotta do. I came back from one of the worst GPAs ever to grace SDN and have been pretty damn successful in med school....just wish I had actually tried to get into an MD school vs going right to DO. Live and learn. End of the day I'll be a doc....besides I am almost through the thorns.

For sure.

Just out of dumb curiosity, what was your GPA?

I'd probably choose the more expensive MD school over the less expensive DO school unless the total difference exceeded $150K.

Originally Posted by PhiPhenomenon

For sure.

Just out of dumb curiosity, what was your GPA?

undergrad 2.45------>3.78 in my masters program. Even with that insane increase it wouldnt have changed my AMCAS GPA because it was graduate work and not more undergrad work my app would have been tossed before anyone even looked at this increase. Didnt want to waste money on MD apps when I could waste it on far more fun stuff . Live and learn.

My opinion: In this case, choose the more expensive MD school. The cost difference inst that great either relatively speaking for it to be worth it to go DO. It's not like the DO school gave you a full scholarship or anything.

An extra 60,000 at 7.9% adds an additional $498.14 on to your loan payment if you choose to pay over a 20 year term totalling 119553.60 dollars.

Originally Posted by willen101383

undergrad 2.45------>3.78 in my masters program. Even with that insane increase it wouldnt have changed my AMCAS GPA because it was graduate work and not more undergrad work my app would have been tossed before anyone even looked at this increase. Didnt want to waste money on MD apps when I could waste it on far more fun stuff . Live and learn.

Heh, that's awesome. Congrats

Hah guess I really got screwed going to a more expensive DO school then.

Originally Posted by Cinclus

I'm pretty sure USC makes it easy to become a resident for tuition purposes, so you'll likely only pay OOS tuition for one year. I would go to USC.

The MSAR says OOS tuition + fees for USC = $68,212. IS tuition for USC is $30, 998. KCUMB costs $44, 000 per year. So:

Total cost USC = $161,206
Total cost KCUMB = $176,000

Assuming OP is a resident for tuition purposes for years 2-4 (USC lets OOS students do this), he/she will save about $15k overall. This is a pretty negligible cost differential between the two.

I would definitely take the MD.

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

[I made another account to protect my privacy.]

I'm in a pickle right now. I am a KS resident and was not accepted at my only state school. I have been accepted at both the University of South Carolina, as an OOS student, and also to KCUMB. Great news, right? Maybe not. Here are my choices:

U. of South Carolina: allopathic, $60,500 per year (tuition and fees)

KCUMB: osteopathic (well-known as far as DO schools are concerned), $44,000 per year

Cost of living will be comparable. That ~$15,000 difference works out to $60,000 over four years, and to God knows what after interest. My question for SDN is this: Is the MD degree worth an extra $60,000 or more?

P.S. I told my interviewers I want to go into primary care, and that's what my PS was about. And, honestly, I am interested in IM or OB/GYN. But gastroenterology also really interests me, as does EM. So it's not necessarily a "If you're going into primary care, go with the cheapest school" kind of deal. Thanks.

DO's get paid the same MD's get paid. Why would you pay 60,000 dollars more for the same thing?

Originally Posted by Santorum Surge

[I made another account to protect my privacy.]

I'm in a pickle right now. I am a KS resident and was not accepted at my only state school. I have been accepted at both the University of South Carolina, as an OOS student, and also to KCUMB. Great news, right? Maybe not. Here are my choices:

U. of South Carolina: allopathic, $60,500 per year (tuition and fees)

KCUMB: osteopathic (well-known as far as DO schools are concerned), $44,000 per year

Cost of living will be comparable. That ~$15,000 difference works out to $60,000 over four years, and to God knows what after interest. My question for SDN is this: Is the MD degree worth an extra $60,000 or more?

P.S. I told my interviewers I want to go into primary care, and that's what my PS was about. And, honestly, I am interested in IM or OB/GYN. But gastroenterology also really interests me, as does EM. So it's not necessarily a "If you're going into primary care, go with the cheapest school" kind of deal. Thanks.

I am a huge proponent of going to the cheapest school you get into, but DO vs MD is a whole other ballgame. Hands down pick the MD. Not really a choice IMHO. You will have so many more opportunities if you go to South Carolina.