"Help me decide" mega thread

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Im with the Neither vote, sorry to say.

As a "lane-change" (ie i did not major undergrad in psychology, and worked for several years before deciding to come back to school) I too looked at PsyD programs as I was finishing my Masters, including an Argosy (a relatively well-regarded one). I ended up deciding against applying, instead focusing on gaining some more research experience and applying to funded, APA accredited PhD programs in Counseling and Clinical psych. I ended up at a Counseling program and am VERY HAPPY I did not commit myself to life-time indentured servitude.

Additionally, while I thought I would not be primarily interested in research, I LOVE having the opportunity to work on a variety of interesting projects. I've heard it time and again from my colleagues; while you think you know what you want to do in the field now, it will likely change. I personally feel that not having the sword of damocles (massive debt) constricting my decisions will make exploring my options and areas of interest much easier.

While there are definitely some highly polarized opinions on this board, I would really, really think about the long term picture. Best of luck.

Sorry, elpsyd. I think you're getting a lot of these kinds of replies because this forum has been inundated with lots of threads asking "should I go to X program or Y program?" Many times, the programs in question are large, free-standing professional schools (as is the case with your thread). There are, quite frankly, problems with the models of these programs, at least in the mind of many of us psych students, even some of those who attend these schools.

For your case, I would look up a few things about each of these programs to inform your decision.

1. What is the cohort size? If the cohorts are large, you won't get any individualized attention from profs; working one-on-one with them will be pretty much an impossibility. I believe I have seen that the Chicago school admits up to 100 students each year. This is gigantic...more students than the market can take.

2. What are the rates of placing students in APA accredited internships? Every school is required to list this somewhere on their website. Make sure you look at the APA/CPA accredited rates, because anything less than an APA accredited spot will restrict your career. If you have questions about what these rates mean, try checking out the occupy the imbalance thread.

3. How much is it going to cost to get this degree? The median psychologist's salary is 65K. A good rule of thumb for academic debt is not to take out more in loans than you can make in your first job. Are you likely to take out more than 65K in loans to go to these schools?

Guess I'll just quote myself, since I already said it.

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Your contention is that a school that is accredited by an accrediting body cannot technically be considered a degree mill. Point taken, but the counter-point of posters here is that these schools still function as degree mills, it just happens that APA standards are so low that even these schools can get beyond that low bar.

Maybe we could just have a sticky for "Deciding on professional schools." It could just say "None of them."

Originally Posted by cara susanna

Maybe we could just have a sticky for "Deciding on professional schools." It could just say "None of them."

I just did a spit take reading this. No more drinking while on SDN!

Originally Posted by CPsychYeah

I just did a spit take reading this. No more drinking while on SDN!

But humorous posts will be reduced dramatically!

Yes! I would love some help from this thread.

UC Santa Barbara vs. UW Madison for a PhD in School Psychology.

Note: Funding is not a consideration in my decision.

Some pros I have come up with:

UCSB Pros:
- Sunny weather, which affects my mood
- Close to family
- Nurturing mentorship model
- Stronger research fit (applied)
- Diverse population
- Combined program, which may open more professional doors
- More practicum opportunities
- Great new facilities
- Better internship match rate

UW Madison Pros:
- Town has a very liberal, indie Berkeley vibe that I jive with
- Prestige in school psychology
- Senior accomplished faculty
- Advisor warm and welcoming but also very prominent in the field
- Professional student culture
- Strong RtI in schools, opportunity to work in strong midwestern schools compared to CA schools
- Experience something new
- Clinical psych faculty in department for clinical training

Originally Posted by cara susanna

Maybe we could just have a sticky for "Deciding on professional schools." It could just say "None of them."

Epic Win

Originally Posted by FemmeFeline

Yes! I would love some help from this thread.

UC Santa Barbara vs. UW Madison for a PhD in School Psychology.

Note: Funding is not a consideration in my decision."

These are both great schools. Funding should be a consideration. Do the math. Debt matters.

Some pros I have come up with:

UCSB Pros:
- Sunny weather, which affects my mood
- Close to family
- Nurturing mentorship model
- Stronger research fit (applied)
- Diverse population
- Combined program, which may open more professional doors
- More practicum opportunities
- Great new facilities
- Better internship match rate

UW Madison Pros:
- Town has a very liberal, indie Berkeley vibe that I jive with
- Prestige in school psychology
- Senior accomplished faculty
- Advisor warm and welcoming but also very prominent in the field
- Professional student culture
- Strong RtI in schools, opportunity to work in strong midwestern schools compared to CA schools
- Experience something new
- Clinical psych faculty in department for clinical training

These are both great schools. Funding should be a consideration. Do the math. Debt matters.

Originally Posted by docma

These are both great schools. Funding should be a consideration. Do the math. Debt matters.

Concur.

When choosing between two good programs take a hard look at the funding and let the money talk.

Thank you for the suggestion but fortunately funding is one factor I am not weighing between the programs. Without being specific, I'll just say I've received comparable aid offers at both (yes, controlled for cost of living). Please for the sake of this exercise, assume that funding is not an issue... I am having trouble parsing out the other details, and I am extremely grateful that money does not need to be one of these.

Then why not go to the midwest and stretch your limits? Usually this is the time in your life to do that....and Madison is a great town and UW has a wonderful reputation. And the cost of living will definitely be better

Originally Posted by PsychinUout

I applied to Palo Alto University (formerly known as Pacific Graduate School of Professional Psychology) Clinical Psychology PhD program and Alliant International Univ CSPP-LA Clinical Psych Phd Program. I wanted to ask for opinions of both institutions. Please help! My main question is would you recommend one over the other and why?

If you really have to pick, PAU. I do agree about the debt though... Otherwise, PAU PhD. Gives good training in clinical side, research a lot of archival data from different professors and PAVA, and stanford if you have a good relationship with some key research players. You gotta have initiative though, more than you have now.

I applied to PhD programs in Developmental and Educational Psychology, but have only gotten offers for master's programs so far. I have an offer from the Lynch School in Applied Developmental and Educational Psychology, one from HGSE in Human Development and Psychology, and one from TC in Clinical Psychology. I have no idea which one to decide on since I had aimed for a PhD program.
Does anyone know which program is more likely to increase my chance of PhD admission for next year? I have just received my master's in Philosophy from Brown and don't really know about the general quality of courses or research opportunities at any of the three programs I have been admitted to.
I would really appreciate your feedback on any of the three programs.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by tatatoo

I applied to PhD programs in Developmental and Educational Psychology, but have only gotten offers for master's programs so far. I have an offer from the Lynch School in Applied Developmental and Educational Psychology, one from HGSE in Human Development and Psychology, and one from TC in Clinical Psychology. I have no idea which one to decide on since I had aimed for a PhD program.
Does anyone know which program is more likely to increase my chance of PhD admission for next year? I have just received my master's in Philosophy from Brown and don't really know about the general quality of courses or research opportunities at any of the three programs I have been admitted to.
I would really appreciate your feedback on any of the three programs.
Thanks.

I have not heard of any of these schools. Could you please say what the initials stand for? Where are they located?

Thanks,
Dr. E

Originally Posted by tatatoo

I applied to PhD programs in Developmental and Educational Psychology, but have only gotten offers for master's programs so far. I have an offer from the Lynch School in Applied Developmental and Educational Psychology, one from HGSE in Human Development and Psychology, and one from TC in Clinical Psychology. I have no idea which one to decide on since I had aimed for a PhD program.
Does anyone know which program is more likely to increase my chance of PhD admission for next year? I have just received my master's in Philosophy from Brown and don't really know about the general quality of courses or research opportunities at any of the three programs I have been admitted to.
I would really appreciate your feedback on any of the three programs.
Thanks.

Lynch School = Boston College School of Education
I attended the mental health counseling MA program at the Lynch School and there was ample opportunity to join research teams and receive guidance about PhD admissions. I know that most of my cohort who took advantage of these resources were granted admittance to funded doctoral programs.
The applied developmental track is in the same department and I would imagine the experience would be similar. Also, there are some assistantships available if you are willing to go outside of the department.

I believe TC is Teacher's College Columbia

TC is Columbia's school of education - Teacher's College
Lynch is Boston College school of education
HGSE is the Harvard Graduate School of Education

Merging with the mega thread

What do you guys think? The clock is ticking. I am leaning towards Roosevelt but thought I would ask the vast Internets first...


Anyone have opinions?[/QUOTE]


...I would honestly go for Roosevelt. The class sizes are small, it's a competitive program and had decent internship match rates. As far as the cost, 20,000/yr. really isn't that bad compared to some other for-profit psy.d programs (ahem* Chicago School). If you play your cards right, you will eventually make enough money as a psychologist to pay off the loans.

It sounds like you are leaning towards Roosevelt anyway, but...

Even though it is probably not wise to go with the 3 + 1 format, DU still starts practicum in the first year. That way if you go with the 4 + 1 you will have a lot of clinical hours when you apply for internship. Which is a huge advantage over other programs. Plus their APA internship match rates a pretty good for PSYD (93% for 2011) and they have been accredited since 1979. Just wanted to give a couple of Pros for Denver.

I don't know much about Roosevelt because I didn't apply there, but I applied and accepted my offer to DU.

Originally Posted by psydhopeful1

It sounds like you are leaning towards Roosevelt anyway, but...

Even though it is probably not wise to go with the 3 + 1 format, DU still starts practicum in the first year. That way if you go with the 4 + 1 you will have a lot of clinical hours when you apply for internship. Which is a huge advantage over other programs. Plus their APA internship match rates a pretty good for PSYD (93% for 2011) and they have been accredited since 1979. Just wanted to give a couple of Pros for Denver.

I don't know much about Roosevelt because I didn't apply there, but I applied and accepted my offer to DU.

I know a faculty member at DU (PsyD) who I have a great deal of respect for, and everything I've seen/heard, both ancedotally and data-wise, seems to indicate that it offers very solid training and does a very good job of matching students to APA-accredited sites (I believe they have some captive internship slots). With all that being said, the debt you would get in at DU would be enormous--and I'd calculate it based on 4+1--which makes it *really* hard to recommend that route. While the debt you'd get in it Roosevelt is still quite high, it sounds like it would be significantly less (half or less), which is a *significant* plus in the equation.

Also, merged with the mega-thread.

Originally Posted by psychkid

actually, its ms. soon-to-be-psychologist ( lol this reminds me of friends). when i went to the interview orientation, they pretty much grilled it into our minds that they are very research based. i also do not like the clinical- community component of the program. though the campus was nice, i did not get a good feel from being there. i didnt really like the location and couldnt really see myself living there.

ok so I didn't get into the wright institute. so its really between la verne and alliant now. i think i'm going to go to alliant, get my masters (because you get it on the way anyway) and then apply again to PGSP, the wright institute, and pepperdine (you need a masters to apply here).
thoughts?

Originally Posted by psychkid

ok so I didn't get into the wright institute. so its really between la verne and alliant now. i think i'm going to go to alliant, get my masters (because you get it on the way anyway) and then apply again to PGSP, the wright institute, and pepperdine (you need a masters to apply here).
thoughts?

Several of the faculty members from my program are now on faculty at Alliant and one of them is the Chairman of one of the campuses. I almost transferred to Alliant at one point in time but they would only accept 25 of my 65 credit hours. This is one thing you need to be aware of when going into a program with a MS degree that is a doctoral program. They will only transfer in so many hours so you basically are doing your MS degree over to some extent and repeating some courses. If you really want to get the doctoral degree it is much better to stick with one program and both of those programs are APA accredited and have as good or better reputation as The Wright Institute and Pepperdine.

Originally Posted by 4410

Several of the faculty members from my program are now on faculty at Alliant and one of them is the Chairman of one of the campuses. I almost transferred to Alliant at one point in time but they would only accept 25 of my 65 credit hours. This is one thing you need to be aware of when going into a program with a MS degree that is a doctoral program. They will only transfer in so many hours so you basically are doing your MS degree over to some extent and repeating some courses. If you really want to get the doctoral degree it is much better to stick with one program and both of those programs are APA accredited and have as good or better reputation as The Wright Institute and Pepperdine.

I'd highly disagree that Alliant has a better rep than the Wright Institute or especially Pepperdine in general.

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

I'd highly disagree that Alliant has a better rep than the Wright Institute or especially Pepperdine in general.

Maybe he should hold out a year and reapply if he really wants to attend a program with a high reputation. Where I live there a many licensed psychologist who graduated from Alliant and they were very happy with their experience and they are now successful psychologists. I am not an expert but my guess is that there are only a few programs with very high reputations, a large number of quality programs, and some not so favorable programs. Still, students report positive experiences and develop competence and licensure across the spectrum of programs. However, not everyone can attend Purdue, UNC, KU, or some of the other top programs. This particular student is interested in PsyD programs so Alliant would most likely be an acceptable option to meet his needs.

you need a masters degree to apply to pepperdine

Originally Posted by psychkid

you need a masters degree to apply to pepperdine

Looking at Pepperdine's program, it is a three year program with the fourth year being internship. Looking at their curriculum you will probably be taking courses over since you already would have a MS in psychology from Alliant. Interesting, since others are saying how bad of a reputation that Alliant or rather the California School of Professional Psychology is, Pepperdine has three faculty members from Alliant, two with PsyD and one with a PhD from when it was called International University of San Diego. From looking at the websites, Pepperdine looks to be very similar to Alliant with similar programs.

Well I think I know the response I will get judging from others on the forum but have to throw it out there...Roosevelt University or The Chicago School for clinical PsyD? I've been accepted to both, it's crunch time and I'm unsure...what concerns me about Roosevelt is that only CBT and psychodynamic interventions are offered...what about humanistic, systems, etc? From someone who is yet unsure of my theoretical orientation I'm concerned with the lack of exposure. Any advice is appreciated!

I am having trouble deciding between two university based Psy.D. programs. Can anyone help me? I am deciding between La Salle and Widener. I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by psychkid

ok so I didn't get into the wright institute. so its really between la verne and alliant now. i think i'm going to go to alliant, get my masters (because you get it on the way anyway) and then apply again to PGSP, the wright institute, and pepperdine (you need a masters to apply here).
thoughts?

I believe Pepperdine has a masters program as well. I don't know if it's too late to apply

I am wondering if anyone out there has any opinion about University of South Carolina's Clinical-Community Psychology PhD program. I am not from the South but considering going there and wondering about its reputation.

Any insights would be really helpful!

Originally Posted by Psych1026

I am having trouble deciding between two university based Psy.D. programs. Can anyone help me? I am deciding between La Salle and Widener. I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!

A big plus for Widener is the captive, APA-accred internship. That's a *huge* boon, especially in this day and age. If there's no sig. cost difference (IIRC, they are both unfunded, right?), I'd choose Widener, although both are fairly well-respected programs.

Originally Posted by tatatoo

TC is Columbia's school of education - Teacher's College
Lynch is Boston College school of education
HGSE is the Harvard Graduate School of Education

Dept of Ed /Schools of Ed are notorious for allowing large cohorts ($$ for universities), so you'll want to make sure thy maintain a high level of training. I'd ask each program for hard data on how many of their students went on to a PhD program following their MA/MS program. If they say, "that is always an option..." but they don't/can't answer you, I'd consider that a big red flag. If a PhD is your endgoal, you should only consider MA/MS programs that have a proven record of developing competitive applicants who secure spots in PhD programs.

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

A big plus for Widener is the captive, APA-accred internship. That's a *huge* boon, especially in this day and age. If there's no sig. cost difference (IIRC, they are both unfunded, right?), I'd choose Widener, although both are fairly well-respected programs.

Thanks very much for your response! Yes, the captive internship is a HUGE plus for me because I would like to stay in the Philadelphia area. Yes - both unfunded. Thanks for your response!

Any thoughts on Southern Illinois University Carbondale's Counseling Psyc PhD program? Good or bad?

Im trying to decide between three program Carlos Albuizu in Miami, Nova Southeastern University in Ft. Lauderdale- davie, and Florida Institute of technology in Melbourne
all are florida schools and I was to a clinical Psy. D if anyone has any input it would be super helpful , I cant decide -__-
Thanks

Originally Posted by ashnc

Im trying to decide between three program Carlos Albuizu in Miami, Nova Southeastern University in Ft. Lauderdale- davie, and Florida Institute of technology in Melbourne
all are florida schools and I was to a clinical Psy. D if anyone has any input it would be super helpful , I cant decide -__-
Thanks

From my understanding, whatever that is worth, Carlos Albuizu seems to have the lower of the reputations. Both Nova and FIT seem pretty decent however with the larger cohort at Nova, if you aren't going into one of their concentrations you're liable to get lost in the crowd and in that case FIT may be better.

I'm in the process of deciding between Nova and FIT as well. The environment at FIT seems very close, which is nice. However, I am leaning toward Nova as I've been accepted into one the concentrations already, would like to have my career continue in south florida so it would give me the opportunity to network, and I can live rent free at my brothers house which will save a ton of money.

Anyone else have any other thoughts I'd love to hear them as well.

Originally Posted by CriminalPsych

From my understanding, whatever that is worth, Carlos Albuizu seems to have the lower of the reputations. Both Nova and FIT seem pretty decent however with the larger cohort at Nova, if you aren't going into one of their concentrations you're liable to get lost in the crowd and in that case FIT may be better.

I'm in the process of deciding between Nova and FIT as well. The environment at FIT seems very close, which is nice. However, I am leaning toward Nova as I've been accepted into one the concentrations already, would like to have my career continue in south florida so it would give me the opportunity to network, and I can live rent free at my brothers house which will save a ton of money.

Anyone else have any other thoughts I'd love to hear them as well.

I would agree that, from what I remember of seeing the internship match #'s alone, FIT and Nova both seem to be on a higher "tier" than Carlos Albuizu. I've worked with people from both FIT and Nova, and both were great clinicians; beyond that, I can't really offer much insight. I think Nova might have larger cohorts, though, so that might factor into your decision. Also, obviously, if either is offering any type of financial assistance and/or one would be significantly more expensive than the other, that could be a deciding point.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the explicit "specialty track" idea at the grad school level, so that might bias me away from Nova a bit. I know the upper-tier of Nova students tend to do well overall, but I believe T4C has said it's very possible to "fall through the cracks" there in terms of time with advisor, placements, etc., if you don't do a good job of self-advocating and separating yourself from the pack early on.

I believe someone had interest in the Wright Institute but they were not accepted. I am not sure if this means anything but it is just additional information. The Wright Institute has a predoctoral internship consortium and they are advertising in the postmatch site for a Health Psychology internship at medical facilities for the undeserved population. It is an unpaid internship through Cappic. It may be that the reason they have openings is that many of their students go to APA accredited internship. It sounds like an excellent internship opportunity except for being an unpaid internship.

UCSB combined clinical, counseling, school PhD (emphasis in Clinical) vs Georgia State University Clinical PhD (neuropsych emphasis)??

Hey guys,

I'm having trouble deciding between two programs. I've been accepted to the PhD School Psych. program at TWU in Denton, TX and also the M.A. program of I/O Psych. at the University of Tulsa. The thought of being a school psychologist sounds better in principle, but the M.A. in I/O would be half the time, and quite possibly just as much financial compensation upon finishing the program (as far as I know). School psych. would be a longer and harder road, but opens more doors for the future too. Anybody have an opinion?

Originally Posted by veRGe

Hey guys,

I'm having trouble deciding between two programs. I've been accepted to the PhD School Psych. program at TWU in Denton, TX and also the M.A. program of I/O Psych. at the University of Tulsa. The thought of being a school psychologist sounds better in principle, but the M.A. in I/O would be half the time, and quite possibly just as much financial compensation upon finishing the program (as far as I know). School psych. would be a longer and harder road, but opens more doors for the future too. Anybody have an opinion?

I'd think you'd be doing two very different types of work in two very different settings with those degrees. Do you have any sort of preference in that respect?

When I consider the work I'd be doing in each setting, my initial thought is that I would enjoy working in a school district more. I'd like the school schedule, working with kids, and the assessment aspect of it (was initially clinical in interest, currently working as a psych. tech.). I'm simply not as familiar, however, with the Masters level work I would be doing in I/O. Consulting for a business of some kind, I'm sure. I've never worked as much in a business setting as an educational or clinical setting, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like it. I'm just a bit ignorant to the actual work I'd be doing upon finishing the program. I've met a lot of people who are pretty jaded after going the doctoral route, despite the better opportunities therein. I'm simply toying with the idea that two years instead of six (with a potentially equal paycheck) might be a better option, even if I'm only slightly interested in the work instead of very.

Would you take an offer if there is no written statement of the funding benefits, only a verbal discussion/confirmation with the DCT?

Originally Posted by veRGe

Hey guys,

I'm having trouble deciding between two programs. I've been accepted to the PhD School Psych. program at TWU in Denton, TX and also the M.A. program of I/O Psych. at the University of Tulsa. The thought of being a school psychologist sounds better in principle, but the M.A. in I/O would be half the time, and quite possibly just as much financial compensation upon finishing the program (as far as I know). School psych. would be a longer and harder road, but opens more doors for the future too. Anybody have an opinion?

I know some about the School Psychology Program at TWU. I was interested in the PhD program a number of years ago but I had already worked a number of years in School Psychology with the EdS degree so I opted to go into a clinical psychology PsyD program instead. However, I have taken some courses at TWU in the school psychology program mostly in neuropsychology and rehabilitation. If you want to specialize in neuropsychology there is a specialization in neuropsychology and many of their graduates are neuropsychologist working in Children's Hospitals.

They have recently applied for APA accreditation and I see them as gaining accreditation this year. Their graduates at the PhD level normally are matched at APA accredited internships. One plus is they have ongoing active research and every year they have a seminar where there students present their research. Dr. Dan Miller is the Chairperson and he is the known worldwide for his visionary concepts in neuropsychology. Regretfully, considering hindsight, I wish I had gone to the School Psychology Program at TWU back in the early 2000's. The TWU faculty is well known in the areas of Autism and Neuropsychology and when they become APA accredited it will only help more so with being one of the top School Psychology training program. I definitely would chose the TWU program over the I/O program at University of Tulsa. Most of the School Psychology Students that were in the TWU program when I applied were actually already working as School Psychologist with the Ed.S degree so they finished up their PhD in less than three years. Most of their courses were in the early evening at that time. They have excellent practicums sites at schools and childrens hospitals in Dallas-Fort Worth area. I believe now, many of their students are younger and have not worked as school psychologists, but they still finish their coursework in less than five years. I believe their PhD is something around 120 credit hours, and from the five classes that I have taken at TWU the academic workload was fairly intensive in comparison with my PsyD courses at a different University.

Roosevelt University PsyD in Clinical Psychology or La Salle University PsyD in Clinical Psychology HELP

Thank you! I am actually deciding between La Salle and Roosevelt now. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Sorry, elpsyd. I think you're getting a lot of these kinds of replies because this forum has been inundated with lots of threads asking "should I go to X program or Y program?" Many times, the programs in question are large, free-standing professional schools (as is the case with your thread). There are, quite frankly, problems with the models of these programs, at least in the mind of many of us psych students, even some of those who attend these schools.

For your case, I would look up a few things about each of these programs to inform your decision.

1. What is the cohort size? If the cohorts are large, you won't get any individualized attention from profs; working one-on-one with them will be pretty much an impossibility. I believe I have seen that the Chicago school admits up to 100 students each year. This is gigantic...more students than the market can take.

2. What are the rates of placing students in APA accredited internships? Every school is required to list this somewhere on their website. Make sure you look at the APA/CPA accredited rates, because anything less than an APA accredited spot will restrict your career. If you have questions about what these rates mean, try checking out the occupy the imbalance thread.

3. How much is it going to cost to get this degree? The median psychologist's salary is 65K. A good rule of thumb for academic debt is not to take out more in loans than you can make in your first job. Are you likely to take out more than 65K in loans to go to these schools?

I am deciding between Roosevelt PsyD in Chicago and La Salle PsyD in Philly. Thoughts? I need all the advice I can get! HELP

Originally Posted by cara susanna

Maybe we could just have a sticky for "Deciding on professional schools." It could just say "None of them."

Wow you're incredibly helpful thank you.