podiatry job..

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

maybe interesting to someone finishing residency. Job closes 4/18/12.

http://federalgovernmentjobs.us/jobs...312994900.html

In that vein, http://www.usajobs.gov/ occasionally has positions.

If you are going to consider that first job, I hope you have a lot of wound/diabetic experience. Unfortunately, the native American population has a very high rate of diabetes and patient's with significant complications.

On a side note, in the new APMA news there is an ad for 2 DPM's. A well trained surgical DPM with rearfoot, ankle, reconstructive experience, with knowledge of pediatrics, and a DPM well trained in general podiatry, wound care, diabetic problems, etc.

The job offered was at a brand new state of the art foot and ankle center with surgical suites and hyperbaric oxygen. The offer was in Saudi Arabia.....looking for a U.S. trained DPM.

Originally Posted by PADPM

The offer was in Saudi Arabia.....looking for a U.S. trained DPM.

They were also looking for a group in the US to work with on occasion...hmmm....

The first job is in Crownpoint. While there may be some who call the American Southwest "heaven", I don't think Crownpoint ought to be included. That is my opinion as someone who has spent a bit of time in New Mexico.

My hat goes off to anyone looking to work with IHS in that particular part of the world. I'm sure there is a lot of good to be done.

Government work cutting nails, doing screenings, and wound care on diabetics in NM... Sounds real nice... If that interests you then maybe I should offer a position in our practice. I'll pay your salary, benefits, malpractice and start at $130K/yr. You see all the patients I currently don't - diabetic care, nails/derm/wounds, orthotics, in-house consults, wound care center, nursing home(s). You're an employee of the practice but I pay your salary and get your collections (like a PA). You only have to take call on your own patients.

Originally Posted by newankle

Government work cutting nails, doing screenings, and wound care on diabetics in NM... Sounds real nice... If that interests you then maybe I should offer a position in our practice. I'll pay your salary, benefits, malpractice and start at $130K/yr. You see all the patients I currently don't - diabetic care, nails/derm/wounds, orthotics, in-house consults, wound care center, nursing home(s). You're an employee of the practice but I pay your salary and get your collections (like a PA). You only have to take call on your own patients.

Would I be able to get 8 hours of sleep per night if I was offered this position?

Originally Posted by Ferocity

Would I be able to get 8 hours of sleep per night if I was offered this position?

Yep, but would have zero opportunity at advancing your career whatsoever, including your salary and would likely not be able to get your cases to sit for your Oral boards in time.

Punch a clock and get paid.

Originally Posted by Ferocity

Would I be able to get 8 hours of sleep per night if I was offered this position?

Yes, of course. ER call is up to you - as much or as little. Nursing home stuff up to you. We'll get the contracts but as much or as little as you want. Wound care center maybe one day or half day per week. Office hours 8am-12pm and 1pm-4pm three days a week. Likely one half-day per week for OR. I'll make sure you get enough cases to sit for board certification in foot surgery within 3 years. So you can have off weekends and be home by 5pm every day.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Yep, but would have zero opportunity at advancing your career whatsoever, including your salary and would likely not be able to get your cases to sit for your Oral boards in time.

Punch a clock and get paid.

Are you talking about the New Mexico job listed above or the position I just offered? Because my position certainly has plans and incentive for salary advancement.

Originally Posted by newankle

Are you talking about the New Mexico job listed above or the position I just offered? Because my position certainly has plans and incentive for salary advancement.

I totally thought you were joking.

You shouldn't be advertising for new job positions here.

Well I'm not really advertising but more just thinking out loud and seeing what the interest may be for that sort of position and expectations. It's hypothetical but I'm seriously thinking of bringing someone on to do the things I don't do. I also thought about doing the same with a CRNP.

Originally Posted by newankle

Well I'm not really advertising but more just thinking out loud and seeing what the interest may be for that sort of position and expectations. It's hypothetical but I'm seriously thinking of bringing someone on to do the things I don't do. I also thought about doing the same with a CRNP.

I'm currently a first resident but would definitely be interested in a position like that.

Originally Posted by newankle

Well I'm not really advertising but more just thinking out loud and seeing what the interest may be for that sort of position and expectations. It's hypothetical but I'm seriously thinking of bringing someone on to do the things I don't do. I also thought about doing the same with a CRNP.

Although I read the forum regularly, I rarely post. But without trying to incite a quarrel, and with no disrespect intended, your posts seem kind of pompous.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you're more successful than most and work as a partner in an orthopedic group. But coming on here stating that you'd like to hire a DPM to do what you won't or don't, seems a little snobbish or as if you're too good to do those tasks.

And then you really sling an insult that I'm sure you didn't intend, when you wrote that you were considering a CRNP for that same position. That doesn't say much for what you think of your colleagues who do wound care, palliative care, consults, diabetic foot care, orthotics and so on.

You're obviously very fortunate to obtain and excellent position, and obviously skilled to maintain that position. But from my observations, there are extremely well trained 36 and 48 month residents who go into practice and perform major rearfoot/reconstructive surgery and also regularly perform the tasks you are considering relegating to a CRNP.

Reality is reality and it's safe to say that a large majority of our profession, regardless of their training, regularly perform all the tasks you seem to see are menial enough to hire a CRNP who has no real training in the foot and ankle.

Once again, I don't know if you even realize how your posts came across, but you can't argue with my observation. It doesn't always matter what you think, how you act or what you write, it's the perception of all of those above that often matters.

Originally Posted by soleman

Although I read the forum regularly, I rarely post. But without trying to incite a quarrel, and with no disrespect intended, your posts seem kind of pompous.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you're more successful than most and work as a partner in an orthopedic group. But coming on here stating that you'd like to hire a DPM to do what you won't or don't, seems a little snobbish or as if you're too good to do those tasks.

And then you really sling an insult that I'm sure you didn't intend, when you wrote that you were considering a CRNP for that same position. That doesn't say much for what you think of your colleagues who do wound care, palliative care, consults, diabetic foot care, orthotics and so on.

You're obviously very fortunate to obtain and excellent position, and obviously skilled to maintain that position. But from my observations, there are extremely well trained 36 and 48 month residents who go into practice and perform major rearfoot/reconstructive surgery and also regularly perform the tasks you are considering relegating to a CRNP.

Reality is reality and it's safe to say that a large majority of our profession, regardless of their training, regularly perform all the tasks you seem to see are menial enough to hire a CRNP who has no real training in the foot and ankle.

Once again, I don't know if you even realize how your posts came across, but you can't argue with my observation. It doesn't always matter what you think, how you act or what you write, it's the perception of all of those above that often matters.

You hit the nail on the head with that estimation of his post in my eyes. I've been thinking about how to respond to his comments since yesterday, but now I don't have to because of your fine post. Thanks!

If a CRNP can provide the care, bill out the same (not sure about this one), but costs less to employ, why wouldn't you hire one? I know a lot of pods make their living on these things, but financially it makes sense, right? I am being earnest and I really don't get it. Isn't it like hiring a handyman instead of a plumber to unclog a pipe? Does this demean the plumbers profession? I guess I don't think so, but I'm not in the field so I don't know....

Originally Posted by MaxillofacialMN

If a CRNP can provide the care, bill out the same (not sure about this one), but costs less to employ, why wouldn't you hire one?

Depending on the state he practices in he may not be able to directly "supervise" a CRNP to be able to bill for services rendered by his employee. Additionally, he is taking on the liability of what his employee is doing since he is required to "supervise". A CRNP can not do this independently, so must be "supervised" and also does not carry all the liability of what he or she is asks to do and somewhat functions under his or her employers malpractice coverage. The biggest issue is that "supervise" can be interpreted VERY loosely and big trouble can be had if issues arise and this "supervision" is questioned, both with malpractice and billing.

If he hires a colleague to do all of this, the colleague takes on the liability as a physician and can function and bill for services rendered independently.

That makes sense.

Originally Posted by soleman

Although I read the forum regularly, I rarely post. But without trying to incite a quarrel, and with no disrespect intended, your posts seem kind of pompous.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you're more successful than most and work as a partner in an orthopedic group. But coming on here stating that you'd like to hire a DPM to do what you won't or don't, seems a little snobbish or as if you're too good to do those tasks.

And then you really sling an insult that I'm sure you didn't intend, when you wrote that you were considering a CRNP for that same position. That doesn't say much for what you think of your colleagues who do wound care, palliative care, consults, diabetic foot care, orthotics and so on.

You're obviously very fortunate to obtain and excellent position, and obviously skilled to maintain that position. But from my observations, there are extremely well trained 36 and 48 month residents who go into practice and perform major rearfoot/reconstructive surgery and also regularly perform the tasks you are considering relegating to a CRNP.

Reality is reality and it's safe to say that a large majority of our profession, regardless of their training, regularly perform all the tasks you seem to see are menial enough to hire a CRNP who has no real training in the foot and ankle.

Once again, I don't know if you even realize how your posts came across, but you can't argue with my observation. It doesn't always matter what you think, how you act or what you write, it's the perception of all of those above that often matters.

Sorry if I offended you but whether you think I'm pompous as you say is not relevant to the discussion. Why is hiring someone to provide services that I don't a problem. How is this different from someone who doesn't perform ankle procedures bringing in someone who provides that service for their practice? You wouldn't complain if that was the case. Yes I am confident. I never said I was 'too good' to perform these tasks. I did them in the past. I am too busy doing the things I enjoy doing in practice and was hired to do. I turn away patients for services I mentioned and would like to hire someone to perform those services. And yes I would like to make more money in that regard and this is a way to accomplish that. In my area a podiatrist cannot supervise a PA or else I would hire one. I can supervise a NP. I hope that makes sense to you.

I guess in NJ, podiatrists are not "plenary" licensed physicians...


Q. May a dentist or podiatrist supervise a physician assistant?

A. Since holders of DDS, DMD and DPM degrees are not plenary licensed physicians, they may not act as supervising physicians for physician assistants.

Virginia, for example, also classifies podiatrists separately from physicians but allows them to supervise a PA. How does that even make any sense?

A physician or a podiatrist licensed under this chapter may apply to the Board to supervise assistants and delegate certain acts which constitute the practice of medicine to the extent and in the manner authorized by the Board. The physician shall provide continuous supervision as required by this section; however, the requirement for physician supervision of assistants shall not be construed as requiring the physical presence of the supervising physician during all times and places of service delivery by assistants.

Hiring someone else to do the work for you is in essence almost the definition of wealth.

That's /how/ you make money while not working.

If you can make 10 dollars a day yourself, or hire someone else to do the same job for 9 dollars a day while making you the extra 1, you now can make 11 dollars a day. Heck, get 10 of 'em working for you and it's as though you're working full time without having to do a thing.

Straight out of "Richest Man in Babylon".

Originally Posted by Ferocity

Virginia, for example, also classifies podiatrists separately from physicians but allows them to supervise a PA. How does that even make any sense?

That is incorrect. I practiced in VA for years and Podiatrists CAN NOT supervise PAs. Sure they can supervise their own MAs, but they can't and shouldn' bill for services they provide to your patients. This is unlike a PA who can round on patients, then their boss can bill for those services there are not physically present for and then countersign the records. BIG difference.

One of my colleagues was brought before the Board of Medicine for this and even though the way it's written is a little ambiguous, Pods can't bill for services unless THEY provide them.

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

Hiring someone else to do the work for you is in essence almost the definition of wealth.

That's /how/ you make money while not working.

If you can make 10 dollars a day yourself, or hire someone else to do the same job for 9 dollars a day while making you the extra 1, you now can make 11 dollars a day. Heck, get 10 of 'em working for you and it's as though you're working full time without having to do a thing.

Straight out of "Richest Man in Babylon".

Here's the problem. What Newankle suggests breeds subordination in the ranks. Let's say he hires you to do all the stuff he doesn't/can't/won't. Eventually you start wondering why he gets to do the sexy stuff while you are elbow deep in pus. Whether you were hired "just to do that" or not, you are both Podiatrists and should have equal share at ALL the work.

I have very intimate experience with this.When I was fresh out of residency I was hired to work as an Associate in what I thought was a busy practice. Little did I know, my "boss" decided he was going to cherry pick all the patients he wanted to, be on vacation for 4 months a year and not do any hospital work at all anymore. I was bound to him for my Green Card so I stuck around WAY too long, but it didn't work out.

So now, Newankle (who I assume works in an Ortho group) is trying to branch out and hire someone to do what he won't/can't/doesn't, whatever. Sorry, man, it's not the same as hiring someone to add a new, more technical aspect to the practice. You know this. We're not that naive.

I'm going to bring this up carefully as I know I'm going to get heat for it. THIS is my biggest problem with the "I want to work for an Ortho group" syndrome. If ALL you want to do is foot and ankle bone surgery, you should have been an Ortho. Podiatry is unique in that regard. I work in a large group now where ALL the docs are equally adept at what we ALL do. They can turf all the stuff they don't want to do to the others in the group but they don't for a very specific reason. The reason is because it's what we DO. Start cherry picking and we lose our identity imo.

I'm proud to say I am a comprehensive foot and ankle physician and surgeon. Are you?

Ah, I see what you mean, i didn't understand that aspect of what he was talking about.

I suppose for the good of the profession I see what Kidsfeet is talking about, but I would think it's the owners prerogative to cherry pick the patients if that's what he wants. I don't really see a big problem with it, as long as the person he's hiring on understands that he is indeed a lesser member of the practice and won't get to practice or enhance skills on anything but the patients the owner doesn't want to see. No so great for advancing the profession, but seems to make his life easier and more enjoyable.

One of the not-so-glamorous aspects of capitalism, I 'spose.

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

...I would think it's the owners prerogative to cherry pick the patients if that's what he wants. I don't really see a big problem with it, as long as the person he's hiring on understands that he is indeed a lesser member of the practice and won't get to practice or enhance skills on anything but the patients the owner doesn't want to see. No so great for advancing the profession, but seems to make his life easier and more enjoyable.

This is an EXACT example of what "eat your young" means. Buyer be VERY aware.

Supporting someone being able to do that legally is one of the tough things that comes with being a Libertarian.

Tough to separate ethics from law, and I have a tendency to additionally think that whoever was getting into that practice to take that position would be new to the field and not really understand what they were getting into.

Nothing says "time to swim" like tossing someone into the ocean and taking your boat back to shore to enjoy the beach.

This is one of those places where perhaps it would be the duty, not of the government, but of the APMA to step in and disallow practices like that for the sake of the profession.

Like I said before, I'm all for someone creating wealth by hiring new hands to do work and reaping some of the benefits, but the specific example you discuss seems to be detrimental to the DPM degree, and would probably wind up hurting the newest practicing pods far more than someone who's been around for a while and can read between the contract lines and see the bum rap they're getting.

I think there are a lot of people looking for jobs that first year out of residency that would have a hard time saying no to a lot of positions they should probably walk away from, and from contracts that screw them without them even knowing it.

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

This is one of those places where perhaps it would be the duty, not of the government, but of the APMA to step in and disallow practices like that for the sake of the profession.

This is not the APMA's function, nor should it be.

I think there are a lot of people looking for jobs that first year out of residency that would have a hard time saying no to a lot of positions they should probably walk away from, and from contracts that screw them without them even knowing it.

You're right, but it's also up the the employer to be honest, which in most cases when something like this comes up, they are not.

Example being this: You go visit a potential employer and their office is booming (of course they have you visit on the day of the week that is the busiest). You are impressed by the staff (who will constantly complain to you once you are actually working with them about their working conditions, whether justified or not), and the doctor seems overloaded with patients. He won't show you the rest of his schedule of course, because it's really none of your business as a prospective employee (this is how they think), and only brings you in once to avoid you getting too nosy about what is going on. He shows you his fancy car, and takes you out for an expensive dinner which is on the business and says he is so swamped that he can't keep up with his patient flow.

He offers you a base salary and incentive, with some benefits, you have your lawyer look it over and the deal is made.

You finally get there only to realize that he isn't really that busy. He turfs you all the poor paying insurance patients (new or otherwise). He takes A LOT of time off. Patients he's been seeing for years are now put on your schedule. They resent the fact that he won't see them anymore (I was one of his FIRST patients, and now I have to see YOU) and take it out on you. So they complain and of course it's your fault that the patients are unhappy. Next thing you know, his schedule is full of new patients, and you are getting almost none, BUT you are seeing all his post ops (which don't pay at all), orthotic followups (which he insists don't get charged since he had them pay cash, which went into his pocket), ALL his nail care patients (I started out doing that, so should YOU)...etc. He has you sit in the office even when you don't have patients in case there are any walk ins (which don't happen). Soon he starts complaining that you aren't generating enough to even make your salary, and that you should be out knocking on doors to stimulate new business.

He also sells diabetic shoes out of his office, but makes sure that when it's the patient's time to get new ones, he sees them for that visit, so he can make sure that you DON'T get credit for getting them into the shoes.

Eventually you notice his new car, all the vacations he seems to be taking...etc, and wonder wtf you got yourself into.

Believe me, the rabbit hole gets much deeper. And then you go to a conference and you hear all the "old" guys complaining how they can't keep an associate because the associates are greedy and expect to get paid more and more every year (which some do). Then if you have some cajones, you approach them and ask them how many associates they've had and they tell you they can't figure out why they go through an associate a year for the last 6-7 years. It couldn't be them, of course!! You then politely, and politically remind them that an associateship is a two way street and walk away as they balk at you, saying you don't know what you're talking about.

This happens ALL the time. Associates make just as many mistakes which I can write out in another thread/post if you like, but this is what "eat the young" is.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

This is an EXACT example of what "eat your young" means. Buyer be VERY aware.

I guess I missed the part of newankle's post that stated the advancement of both skill and salary were not available in this hypothetical situation. I'm not saying it was or wasn't in there, I simply interpreted his post differently.

There are plenty of residents who will not get the training/cases to sit for the RRA qualifying exam. That's just life. So a pod who wants to hire you as an associate, give you the cases to certify in foot surgery, but require you to do provide certain services that he no longer has time for. Is this not how practices grow?

Maybe I'm getting ahead of newankle but I read his hypothetical position as a chance for him to expand his group. I don't see anywhere in his post that would lead me to believe this new employee couldn't start doing more complicated procedures and spend more time in the OR if that's what he/she wanted to do. In fact, I would think newankle would want nothing more than for this new pod to expand his/her patient population to the point where they could hire ANOTHER pod to take over the previous new hire's work. I'm assuming newankle wouldn't mind making money off of 2 people instead of 1.

Eat your young doesn't apply, in my opinion, when your boss isn't giving you cases that you cannot or should not do. And let's be honest, there are still plenty of graduates who will never be qualified to do what newankle does on a daily basis. I don't see how his hypothetical situation is anything but "fair" given what was offered and what is expected of the employee in return.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Eventually you start wondering why he gets to do the sexy stuff while you are elbow deep in pus. Whether you were hired "just to do that" or not, you are both Podiatrists and should have equal share at ALL the work.

I have very intimate experience with this.When I was fresh out of residency I was hired to work as an Associate in what I thought was a busy practice. Little did I know, my "boss" decided he was going to cherry pick all the patients he wanted to, be on vacation for 4 months a year and not do any hospital work at all anymore. I was bound to him for my Green Card so I stuck around WAY too long, but it didn't work out.

So it's newankle's fault that you no longer want to do what you implicitly signed up for? And your example has nothing to do with this hypothetical...unless newankle specifically is asking for a Canadian immigrant...there is no reason this new employee could not simply quit if they are really upset with their working situation. Just because being an associate didn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for a thousand other pods. In fact, newankle is technically an "associate"...

Sorry, I don't know what exactly all the functions are of the different groups (I swear, I've seen about 40 different acronyms since I started school, and they all have the same letters...)

I simply mean that to oppose government intervention necessitates the guild that certifies new podiatrists to practice also take it upon themselves to advance the profession and impose certain guidelines of practice for the sake of it's members (young and old) and the people who request their services. If the oldies are specifically practicing in such a way the will destroy the field, something should be done by the group to change such things.

Thank you for the informative post; always good to see how things can work and some of the pitfalls to avoid as a newcomer into the field.

Originally Posted by newankle

Yes, of course. ER call is up to you - as much or as little. Nursing home stuff up to you. We'll get the contracts but as much or as little as you want. Wound care center maybe one day or half day per week. Office hours 8am-12pm and 1pm-4pm three days a week. Likely one half-day per week for OR. I'll make sure you get enough cases to sit for board certification in foot surgery within 3 years. So you can have off weekends and be home by 5pm every day.

This sounds like your typical podiatry practice to me. A little wound care, some nail care, a half day to day in the OR, and ABPS Foot qual/cert. Heck, I'm sure plenty of pods would love to have "optional" ER call and the 9-5 office hours, with guaranteed cases to get your Foot Certification. So what am I missing that makes this so offensive and/or destructive to the profession?

I would bet a lot of money that if I opened up the newest APMA News I would find over a dozen other "job offers" that read just like this hypothetical one. And that doesn't take into account that any of them offered by a pod group won't be as generous as $130,000. I won't speak for newankle, but I'm sure he's done his homework and that salary figure wasn't just pulled out of a hat either

Originally Posted by RockyIV

So it's newankle's fault that you no longer want to do what you implicitly signed up for?

Not one bit. It's offensive to me that Newankle blatantly said he doesn't want to do these things and will either hire a Colleague OR a nurse to take care of them. THAT is an example of how a boss that isn't look out for the profession as a whole treats a new employee. AND although everyone should look out for themselves, someone new out of residency won't get the nuances of this. Eventually they WILL start to question why they are doing stuff THE BOSS isn't. It's a natural progression of how things go.

And your example has nothing to do with this hypothetical...unless newankle specifically is asking for a Canadian immigrant...there is no reason this new employee could not simply quit if they are really upset with their working situation.

It's not that easy to settle somewhere and have to uproot yourself.

Just because being an associate didn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for a thousand other pods. In fact, newankle is technically an "associate"...

I'm an associate right now and loving life. The job is phenom , I love the people I work with, I'm busy in all aspects of what our profession is sought after for and the people that hired me made no allusions as to what I would be doing and what is expected of me. Furthermore, we ALL share in the practice. I'm not treated as an associate, but as a member of the team, and we ALL do it ALL. Whatever they ask me to do, they've done themselves and STILL do.

As I've said, what Newankle is suggesting is distasteful to me because I've been there done that. ONce again, buyer be VERY aware.

Y'know Rocky, you come across as a very prickly pear. I am anxious to learn about how things go for you in the future, because if you react in real life they way you react on these forums, I think you may have a tougher time than you anticipate. I know though from your previous postings that you're all good and don't need help from anyone. I pray for you that you don't end up in a situation where you look back at this post and think to yourself, "maybe I should have paid just a little more attention". Life has a way of throwing curve balls.

Originally Posted by dtrack22

This sounds like your typical podiatry practice to me. A little wound care, some nail care, a half day to day in the OR, and ABPS Foot qual/cert. Heck, I'm sure plenty of pods would love to have "optional" ER call and the 9-5 office hours, with guaranteed cases to get your Foot Certification. So what am I missing that makes this so offensive and/or destructive to the profession?

Not typical at all. I don't know any successful Pods that could make a simple formula like that work UNLESS they are employed by a hospital system.

What if your employer doesn't come through with the guarantee for cases? You do realize that your board cases have to show pre/peri AND post operative care to qualify? Where are these cases coming from? Will the employer be so willing to give up the cases, when things really come down to the crunch. Ego can show it's ugly head on you exactly in times like these. I can almost guarantee that your contract WON'T have the case guarantee in there. It can't. There is NO WAY to guarantee that. That's the bait and switch. I'm sure the intention is there, but the reality is there is hardly like that. Be wary of "guarantees". Let's say they don't come through and you don't sit for the boards before your time is up because you couldn't get the cases. Guess what? Now you lost your status with the ABPS which is grounds for immediate dismissal in your contract. All of you need to understand ALL of this for YOUR protection. I'm not pointing fingers at Newankle, but he won't be the one to suffer if things don't quite go the way you expected. YOU will.

I would bet a lot of money that if I opened up the newest APMA News I would find over a dozen other "job offers" that read just like this hypothetical one. And that doesn't take into account that any of them offered by a pod group won't be as generous as $130,000. I won't speak for newankle, but I'm sure he's done his homework and that salary figure wasn't just pulled out of a hat either

I'm sure he hasn't. That is far too much pay for what he is expecting work wise AND he won't know until HE spends the money and his partners get on his case about why this new doc HE hired is costing them so much.

You would lose that money you bet. Open up the APMA News and you'll see what the ads say.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

You would lose that money you bet. Open up the APMA News and you'll see what the ads say.

Ok, I just did. Most of the ads are less detailed than newankle's but they say essentially the same thing. For example:

"KENTUCKY—Preferred Podiatry Group is a team that provides quality service and expertise to residents of extended-care facilities. We are currently offering full- and part-time positions with excellent benefits for podiatrists in the state of Kentucky."

"MINNESOTA—Immediate opening for podiatrist! Looking to service long-term care community residing in nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Based in Twin Cities, MN. Full- and part-time positions available. Attractive compensation and industry-leading benefits package."

"OHIO—Cleveland. Excellent opportunity for full-time associate. Very busy, well-established, growing practice. Applicant must be motivated, ethical, personable with well-trained PSR-24/36. Two office locations with nearby hospital affiliations with some nursing home care. Competitive salary and benefits."

And the best one....
"TEXAS, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, WISCONSIN, OKLAHOMA, SOUTH DAKOTA, NORTH DAKOTA, COLORADO, IOWA, NEBRASKA, ARIZONA, KANSAS—Podiatrists needed for growing multistate medical practice. Imagine working independently with an established patient base, being provided with an assistant, scheduling and administrative support, being given equipment allowances, having travel expenses covered, while visiting patients who appreciate your comprehensive, compassionate, and expert care. Take advantage of the opportunity to join the nation’s largest growing, most technologically advanced and expertly managed nursing home and assisted living medical and podiatry practice. We ensure your success by providing an established patient base, scheduling and billing assistance, medical assistant/patient transporter, allowances for equipment, coverage of travel expenses, and the newest tablet-technology EMR system to dramatically reduce your workload so you can spend more time providing quality care to patients. As an Aggeus podiatrist, your opportunities are endless. Our podiatrists feel good about their careers because they know their patients appreciate them and the Aggeus team is there to support and guide them to success. We offer generous benefits and flexible scheduling: base salary available, bonus opportunities, disability, malpractice coverage, matching 401(k), health insurance benefits, and part-time positions available"

I shadowed a Pod who had a 9-5 schedule, was in the OR two mornings a week and clinic the rest, but with no nursing home work and he made over $130k a year as an associate. It is not definitely not "far too much pay" for what he is asking for "work wise."

Originally Posted by dtrack22

Ok, I just did. Most of the ads are less detailed than newankle's but they say essentially the same thing. (I love when people who are wrong do this..."It's exactly the same BUT"...it's really not).

So in most cases you were not correct. Pay up! I highlighted the part of the post previously so you can see exactly what you wrote.

I shadowed a Pod who had a 9-5 schedule, was in the OR two days a week and clinic the rest, but with no nursing home work and he made over $130k a year as an associate. It is not definitely not "far too much pay" for what he is asking for "work wise."

That's NOT what Newankle is asking for is it? Newankle is talking about someone to cover nail and wound care. He didn't even mention OR days AT ALL until someone else brought it up, and then "guaranteed" the cases for Boards which is a whole lot of hot air imo.

Also he admitted to potentially preferring hiring a nurse to do the work but his state won't let him. "Boohooo...now I actually have to hire an associate to do it!" I'm amazed that this doesn't bother EVERYONE.

I am offering advice and examples only. I'm not here to argue. If you like what I have to say, put it in your databanks. If not, don't.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

That's NOT what Newankle is asking for is it? Newankle is talking about someone to cover nail and wound care. He didn't even mention OR days AT ALL until someone else brought it up.

But before any of your posts it was well established that there would be OR time, ER call if you wanted it and if there are cases for ABPS Foot cert (regardless of wether or not he can guarantee enough to sit for the exam, there clearly will be SOME) then it was VERY OBVIOUS that this job is more than nail and wound care. Even if that's all you do, wound care alone could net you more than $130k per year. I've had experience with a faculty member that did just that.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

(I love when people who are wrong do this..."It's exactly the same BUT"...it's really not).

So in most cases you were not correct. Pay up!

I never said "in most cases", so please quote me correctly. I said I could find at least a dozen job offers like newankle's. One of those job postings alone has 12 potential openings in 12 different states. I didn't post every ad I saw and the ones that start with "preferred podiatrist group" were numerous and therefore did not post all of them.

My point was clearly made though as there were easily 12 ads calling for an associate to do the work that the rest of the group did not want to do..."nursing homes", "assisted-living facilities", "extended-care facilities". Of course, all ads claimed to have excellent benefit packages and compensation as well.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

I'm not here to argue

no?

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Also he admitted to potentially preferring hiring a nurse to do the work but his state won't let him..."Boohooo...now I actually have to hire an associate to do it!" I'm amazed that this doesn't bother EVERYONE.

speaking of being a "prickly pear" and watching "the way you react on these forums"...Here is EXACTLY what newankle said in his previous post regarding hiring a DPM, PA, NP, etc.

Originally Posted by newankle

In my area a podiatrist cannot supervise a PA or else I would hire one. I can supervise a NP. I hope that makes sense to you.

It didn't bother ANYONE because you were way off on what was actually said

Originally Posted by dtrack22

But before any of your posts it was well established that there would be OR time, ER call if you wanted it and if there are cases for ABPS Foot cert (regardless of wether or not he can guarantee enough to sit for the exam, there clearly will be SOME) then it was VERY OBVIOUS that this job is more than nail and wound care. Even if that's all you do, wound care alone could net you more than $130k per year. I've had experience with a faculty member that did just that.

Please scroll up.


I never said "in most cases", so please quote me correctly. I said I could find at least a dozen job offers like newankle's. One of those job postings alone has 12 potential openings in 12 different states. I didn't post every ad I saw and the ones that start with "preferred podiatrist group" were numerous and therefore did not post all of them.

Nope. Please scroll up.

My point was clearly made though as there were easily 12 ads calling for an associate to do the work that the rest of the group did not want to do..."nursing homes", "assisted-living facilities", "extended-care facilities". Of course, all ads claimed to have excellent benefit packages and compensation as well.

Does it EXPLICITLY say in the ad the rest of the doctors in the group WON'T do that work, because Newankle SPECIFICALLY said that in his post.


no?

No.

He wants to hire a nurse rather than a Podiatrist. Period.

Originally Posted by dtrack22

that read just like this hypothetical one.

Your quote here.

I never had a problem with newankle hiring a podiatrist to perform those duties. My only problem was the comment that he was thinking of hiring a CRNP for those same duties.

Given the fact that those tasks are performed daily by a majority of podiatrists, it seems to trivialize the DPM education if he believes a CRNP, with no real foot/ankle training is on equal grounds.

I applaud newankle if he is successful enough to pick and choose what he can do on a daily basis. That's when it's time to hire that DPM, not a CRNP. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by dtrack22

It didn't bother ANYONE because you were way off on what was actually said.

Seems to bother Soleman as well. I guess our middle names are ANYONE.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Your quote here.

"read the same" and "word for word, exactly the same" are not equivalent. Here's an example. These two sentences "read" the same

1. I am too busy to see new patients who need nail and wound care. I'd like to pay somebody $130k to do it for me.

2. Busy practice seeking well trained employee to cover nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Competitive salary and benefits

Reading both posts, you realize what they are asking for/offering. They aren't word for word exact but any half way intelligent person looks at those two sentences and sees the same job opportunity. Hence my statement that they "read just like the hypothetical" job opening.

So you still managed to take my post out of context from its original point and twisted it to fit the parameters of your own post.

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Seems to bother Soleman as well. I guess our middle names are ANYONE.

No, your statement that newankle was upset because he couldn't hire a NP and now had to find an associate didn't bother anyone else because that is not at all what newankle said. Solemn was put off for a different (and valid even though I don't feel the same) reason.

:EDIT:
Eh, this pun was too lame even for my tastes. Removed.

Originally Posted by dtrack22

"read the same" and "word for word, exactly the same" are not equivalent. Here's an example. These two sentences "read" the same

No they don't. If you think they do you need to spend more time educating yourself about what these ads are looking for instead of interpreting them in YOUR way.

1. I am too busy to see new patients who need nail and wound care. I'd like to pay somebody $130k to do it for me.

2. Busy practice seeking well trained employee to cover nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Competitive salary and benefits

Reading both posts, you realize what they are asking for/offering. They aren't word for word exact but any half way intelligent person looks at those two sentences and sees the same job opportunity. Hence my statement that they "read just like the hypothetical" job opening.

So you still managed to take my post out of context from its original point and twisted it to fit the parameters of your own post.

Rather than extrapolate what I'm thinking, be EXACT in what you write so there is no room for interpretation.

Sorry I don't get the same thing you do from 1 & 2. Number one is clear on the intention. Number 2 isn't clear on whether you will be the only one doing it or if they picked up a couple of additional nursing homes that they can't cover and need more help covering those two additional facilities. The practice I work in basically told me #2, but they also told me that they ALL do nursing homes and need help with them and they were honest with me about it.

I'm going to bow down to dtrack now, to avoid another "pissing match". I've said what I felt I needed to say. Hats off to you dtrack.

Originally Posted by bobdolerson

:EDIT:
Eh, this pun was too lame even for my tastes. Removed.

WHYYY??

I decusated!!!!

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Number 2 isn't clear on whether you will be the only one doing it or if they picked up a couple of additional nursing homes that they can't cover and need more help covering those two additional facilities.

I remember inquiring about one of those APMA classified ads a year or so ago. Mostly because I was curious. I can't speak for all of them, but the one I responded to was even worse than what newankle offered. They were exactly (and Kidsfeet can quote me on that because I mean exactly) like the one's quoted above. And all they wanted was an associate for C&C. Nothing else. I mean, c'mon, you have to be an idiot to see "part-time" and assume they are looking for someone to provide the full scope of podiatric care. The salary was laughable too.

While I'm on the subject of laughable, there's always this

Originally Posted by Kidsfeet

Also he admitted to potentially preferring hiring a nurse to do the work but his state won't let him..."Boohooo...now I actually have to hire an associate to do it!" I'm amazed that this doesn't bother EVERYONE.

woops. Hopefully reading comprehension skills make up for my prickly personality.

Originally Posted by RockyIV

Hopefully reading comprehension skills make up for my prickly personality.

Nope!