Is this normal?

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Hi everyone. I know a woman with a PsyD who graduated about 6-7 years ago. She sees a few patients per week--- and talks to me about them occasionally. Is this normal? Were not friends. We do volunteer work for the same organization. It's usually in the context of her arriving somewhere, rushed and saying "so I was just meeting with this client who..... " I've always found it interesting that she uses the word "client". Instead of "patient".

Three times she has actually been doing phone appointments with patients while running errands or showing up at the charity. It's not like she is part of a group or has colleagues. She works independently and rents office space a few hours each week I think. So she has almost no accountability.

She'll tell me things about her patients that I really don't want to know. I also find myself totally shocked that she would tell me details about a client two minutes after getting off the phone with them. It's happened enough that I'm compelled to post here asking about it.

What's the deal with that? Is this common in psychology? I've known two psychiatrists in a personal level and they never uttered a word about work. But i don't know if they have different regulations because they're MD's.

I'm guessing it's not common. I'm interested to hear what people think because I've actually been wondering if there's something wrong with her. Between the openness about her patients and other things....we'll see. Looking fed to some feedback! Thanks.

If you are concerned baout your friends practices, then file a complaint with the state psychology licensing board. They will determine if an ethics code has been violated and how to adjudicate the matter.

Originally Posted by erg923

If you are concerned baout your friends practices, then file a complaint with the state psychology licensing board. They will determine if an ethics code has been violated and how to adjudicate the matter.

Alright. Like my post said, she isn't my friend. We don't know each other very well. This Is part of why it's strange and seems reckless.

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Alright. Like my post said, she isn't my friend. We don't know each other very well. This Is part of why it's strange and seems reckless.

Regarding one of your other questions: unless the psychologist works in a medical setting, many/most will likely refer to the people they treat as clients rather than patients.

I also agree with erg. If you feel the grievance is unethical, you can choose to first address it with the individual (which is what the APA generally recommends in the case of one colleague being concerned about another), or take it up with the ethics board from the get-go, given that this person doesn't have a direct supervisor.

Based on my experiences and training, I would say that no, this is not normal at all. It sounds like she is toeing the line of ethical behavior here. If she ever lets anything slip that would allow you to identify one of her clients, then she is clearly in violation of the ethics code. At the very least, it is unprofessional for her to vent about t the personal lives of her clients to you. (As a side note, many psychologists use the term "client" instead of "patient," particularly if they do not work in a hospital). I am also concerned about her talking to clients on the phone when others are around. Is she having actual sessions with them, or scheduling appointments and working out logistics like that? Does she ever use names in the conversation?

Like I said earlier, it sounds very unprofessional at the least. It's frustrating that a few psychologists can so easily sully the reputation of the field . I would sure hate to be one of her clients and find out about these behaviors.

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Based on my experiences and training, I would say that no, this is not normal at all. It sounds like she is toeing the line of ethical behavior here. If she ever lets anything slip that would allow you to identify one of her clients, then she is clearly in violation of the ethics code. At the very least, it is unprofessional for her to vent about t the personal lives of her clients to you. (As a side note, many psychologists use the term "client" instead of "patient," particularly if they do not work in a hospital). I am also concerned about her talking to clients on the phone when others are around. Is she having actual sessions with them, or scheduling appointments and working out logistics like that? Does she ever use names in the conversation?

Like I said earlier, it sounds very unprofessional at the least. It's frustrating that a few psychologists can so easily sully the reputation of the field . I would sure hate to be one of her clients and find out about these behaviors.

That's a good point as well re: the phone conversations. If she's using identifying information or, perhaps even worse, having actual "phone therapy" sessions while out in public, it does sound unethical, and is a possible violation of HIPAA as well.

This is all speculation, of course, given that we don't have the full details of the situation. All the more reason to contact an ethics board with your specific questions.

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Based on my experiences and training, I would say that no, this is not normal at all. It sounds like she is toeing the line of ethical behavior here. If she ever lets anything slip that would allow you to identify one of her clients, then she is clearly in violation of the ethics code. At the very least, it is unprofessional for her to vent about t the personal lives of her clients to you. (As a side note, many psychologists use the term "client" instead of "patient," particularly if they do not work in a hospital). I am also concerned about her talking to clients on the phone when others are around. Is she having actual sessions with them, or scheduling appointments and working out logistics like that? Does she ever use names in the conversation?

Like I said earlier, it sounds very unprofessional at the least. It's frustrating that a few psychologists can so easily sully the reputation of the field . I would sure hate to be one of her clients and find out about these behaviors.

Oh yes. Actual sessions. As in "i need to meet with this client at the last minute. Do you mind helping with my work until I'm done (this is not actually a question. Typically whatever it is we're doing cant be stopped and picked up later)?" then proceeds to get on the phone.

What's truly strange about her is how intrusive and demanding she is. I mean, there are social boundaries. They're slightly different for everyone but generally people intuitively know what's appropriate to ask of someone, whether or not you know them well enough to ask a favor, etc. she has no boundaries at all. Badgers with text messages asking questions she expects to be answered almost immediately. Its hard to put them off too because she'll call and then text "did you get my text?". Shes pretty impatient. She's asked one of the other women, at the last minute, if she could watch her child for an hour or so. The implication being that she had something urgent to do. She got a pedicure. This is just one example.

So anyway, what im getting at is that the same disregard she seems to have for her clients applies to everyone. Thanks for your feedback. Saw this forum on here (I'm a premed), and thought I'd take advantage of the opportunity to ask about this.

It is not normal. It is unethical and unprofessional. Unfortunately, with psychologists (as with physicians), getting a degree does not in itself guarantee getting values, maturity or boundaries (or apparently having a license, if she in fact has one.) But nothing stops you from defining a boundary by being unwilling to accomodate her or suggesting one with a well-placed question which you are willing to repeat, even in front of others. Eg: Isn't what you are doing unethical? Of course it will not endear you to her but it may be instructive to others.

Originally Posted by docma

It is not normal. It is unethical and unprofessional. Unfortunately, with psychologists (as with physicians), getting a degree does not in itself guarantee getting values, maturity or boundaries (or apparently having a license, if she in fact has one.) But nothing stops you from defining a boundary by being unwilling to accomodate her or suggesting one with a well-placed question which you are willing to repeat, even in front of others. Eg: Isn't what you are doing unethical? Of course it will not endear you to her but it may be instructive to others.

Thank you for the feedback. Sorry for going off on a tangent in my last post. Hazard of mobile apps and posting on the Internet while not focusing on writing.

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

What's truly strange about her is how intrusive and demanding she is. I mean, there are social boundaries. They're slightly different for everyone but generally people intuitively know what's appropriate to ask of someone, whether or not you know them well enough to ask a favor, etc. she has no boundaries at all. Badgers with text messages asking questions she expects to be answered almost immediately. Its hard to put them off too because she'll call and then text "did you get my text?". Shes pretty impatient. She's asked one of the other women, at the last minute, if she could watch her child for an hour or so. The implication being that she had something urgent to do. She got a pedicure. This is just one example.

Jeez, no wonder people think all psychologists and psychiatrists are secretly crazy.

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Jeez, no wonder people think all psychologists and psychiatrists are secretly crazy.

Ha. No worries! I certainly don't. She is crazy however. I don't know to what degree this is possible but I think she actually uses her knowledge to manipulate more than she uses it to help people. Or perhaps she was like this to begin with.

Yup I just deal with it by not dealing with it. Stay out of her way, fly below the radar so to speak.

This is why I want to be a radiologist! Limited patient contact.

She sounds like a real a-hole. I'd report her. She sounds toxic.

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Jeez, no wonder people think all psychologists and psychiatrists are secretly crazy.

Haha I agree. Now, I will say that I think psychologists and trainees that are working in the same setting are often quite loose-lipped about their clients with each other. Maybe a spillover of group supervision. I suppose there is a big difference when you start talking with other people where confidentiality is less than implied.

With people being crazy, I must say that I have encountered more people with questionable mental health within the field than outside of it...

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Jeez, no wonder people think all psychologists and psychiatrists are secretly crazy.

Wait- is this one of those things that psychologists and psychiatrists say that really means something else?

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Wait- is this one of those things that psychologists and psychiatrists say that really means something else?

Nope

Am I the only one who thinks this might be a homework assignment for an ethics course?

Originally Posted by futurepsydoc

Am I the only one who thinks this might be a homework assignment for an ethics course?

I suppose it doesn't matter what I say in reply to this.

Based on what you said, it seems that the most appropriate course is to address it with her first, before going to the board. She's violating the patient's (or client's) privilege and sometimes a conversation is the most appropriate way of handling this. If you feel that that does not work, then moving up the ranks and filing a complaint would be more appropriate.

Originally Posted by futurepsydoc

Am I the only one who thinks this might be a homework assignment for an ethics course?

Yes, you very well could be the only one. I certainly never got that impression. It would be a pretty convoluted homework question.

Actually, based on what you've described about this woman, it sort of sounds like she is very narcissistic and has difficulty with boundaries. I would not report her to the regulatory agency as they are likely to ignore anything except a very gross violation of confidentiality, but I would suggest you distance yourself from her as much as possible.

As someone else pointed out, having the degree and the license does not guarantee health, and I have always believed that our field attracts more than it's share of unhealthy people.

Not sure if this thread is still being checked, but I thought I'd throw my 2¢ in here...not sure if the OP is in psych or has read the APA Ethics Code, but if you have a grievance with psychologist you are supposed to resolve it informally first. This means approaching them and having a chat. From what the OP said, this woman has not dropped any names. I get the concern and the worry about leaking enough info to identify someone, and it certainly does sound like risky and unprofessional behavior. But, informal first - report next. Just taking a page from the book...

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Hi everyone. I know a woman with a PsyD who graduated about 6-7 years ago. She sees a few patients per week--- and talks to me about them occasionally. Is this normal? Were not friends. We do volunteer work for the same organization. It's usually in the context of her arriving somewhere, rushed and saying "so I was just meeting with this client who..... " I've always found it interesting that she uses the word "client". Instead of "patient".

Three times she has actually been doing phone appointments with patients while running errands or showing up at the charity. It's not like she is part of a group or has colleagues. She works independently and rents office space a few hours each week I think. So she has almost no accountability.

She'll tell me things about her patients that I really don't want to know. I also find myself totally shocked that she would tell me details about a client two minutes after getting off the phone with them. It's happened enough that I'm compelled to post here asking about it.

What's the deal with that? Is this common in psychology? I've known two psychiatrists in a personal level and they never uttered a word about work. But i don't know if they have different regulations because they're MD's.

I'm guessing it's not common. I'm interested to hear what people think because I've actually been wondering if there's something wrong with her. Between the openness about her patients and other things....we'll see. Looking fed to some feedback! Thanks.

Wow, this is really unprofessional behavior, bordering on unethical. Technically she has not revealed any names, but if you identify any of her clients based on her rants, that is unethical and you should either talk to her about it or report her to your state psychology licensing board or whatever licensing board she is a member of (e.g. social work, counseling) if she does indeed have a license. If she is practicing independently without supervision, it is likely that she is licensed as something, hopefully. Based on your description, it would not surprise me if she is practicing without a license. I think this issue is worth discussing with her and/or reporting her to the state psychology licensing board.

I hope you do not think all psychologists are like that or that all people with a PsyD degree are like that. There are some very good practicing PsyDs and this person you have described makes us all look bad.

Originally Posted by Hope4Grad

Not sure if this thread is still being checked, but I thought I'd throw my 2¢ in here...not sure if the OP is in psych or has read the APA Ethics Code, but if you have a grievance with psychologist you are supposed to resolve it informally first. This means approaching them and having a chat. From what the OP said, this woman has not dropped any names. I get the concern and the worry about leaking enough info to identify someone, and it certainly does sound like risky and unprofessional behavior. But, informal first - report next. Just taking a page from the book...

Yeah, but it's not he OP's responsibility to uphold the APA ethics code.

Originally Posted by futurepsydoc

Am I the only one who thinks this might be a homework assignment for an ethics course?

Originally Posted by KillerDiller

Yes, you very well could be the only one. I certainly never got that impression. It would be a pretty convoluted homework question.

Maybe it's because I just finished taking an Ethics course but I was definitely thinking that this could have easily been one of our HW assignments.

But I agree with:

Originally Posted by Hope4Grad

But, informal first - report next.

Originally Posted by PsyDLICSW

Wow, this is really unprofessional behavior, bordering on unethical. Technically she has not revealed any names, but if you identify any of her clients based on her rants, that is unethical and you should either talk to her about it or report her to your state psychology licensing board or whatever licensing board she is a member of (e.g. social work, counseling) if she does indeed have a license. If she is practicing independently without supervision, it is likely that she is licensed as something, hopefully. Based on your description, it would not surprise me if she is practicing without a license. I think this issue is worth discussing with her and/or reporting her to the state psychology licensing board.

Well, if she is 6 or 7 years into practice, then she may well be licensed. It is not uncommon for psychologists to be solo practitioners and unsupervised. However, if she is doing phone sessions, the question becomes how she is billing for services. If she is also a 'life coach', and I know a few therapists that are both, then there really may not be any ethical board to report her to. Of course, that gets into the question, if a psychologist can also be a life coach and does confidentiality and other rights extend to coaching clients? Do psychologists have to be ethical in other roles? If she is an unlicensed therapist, then there is little to be done.

She sounds tame compared to one Psychologist who offered "free sessions" to a group of teachers, then tried to hit on the hottest one. Right after he took her whole history and essentially did an intake session with her. Her boyfriend was less than amused and I urged her to report the guy for clearly being unprofessional. If I knew who it was, I would have reported him, they wouldn't tell me a name.

M

Thanks for all of the replies. I don't really see this woman much anymore.

Thankfully. Total wackadoo.

Thanks again to all who responded! I really appreciate it.