Evms

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So looks like recently, every year, approximately 4 to 5 of the MM's fail to get into EVMS right after finishing the program for whatever reason. Hopefully they aren't mostly OOSers or anything particularlike that. I know someone long ago mentioned EVMS was switching to being more publicly funded or something.

Anyhow, It seems the like a strong/sufficient performance in the Med Master program in the eyes of the EVMS adcoms is high passing or honoring all the courses or basically getting no C's whatsoever. Like at all SMPs, your're expected to better than the medical mean.

During 1st semester, high passing or honoring your classes seems very doable esp. because you aren't taking one of the core science courses which M1's have to take: anatomy.

But during the 2nd semester, the expectations for MM's seems, in my opinion, seems way more difficult, regardless of the effort one puts forth, because essentially you are taking simultaneously all of the 3 same core science courses as the M1's: Biochem, Physio, and Neuroscience. Yet you are expected to consistently do better in all the classes than the folks who had higher stats than you lol.

Looking far back in this thread, it seems like years ago medical masters at one point didn't take neuroscience during the 2nd semester.

But oh well, it is it what it is. This SMP empirically still produces better results than many other SMPs. And anyone doing an SMP is in that position for a reason. Note that I am an outsider looking in. I'm not in the program nor have I been accepted yet. Any bit of info in this post could be factually incorrect (unintentionally that is). This post also wasn't meant to be a question or to provoke anyone or anything. I'm just sharing my thoughts and reactions after just reading all 37 pages of this enormous thread.

Originally Posted by whatooo

So looks like recently, every year, approximately 4 to 5 of the MM's fail to get into EVMS right after finishing the program for whatever reason. Hopefully they aren't mostly OOSers or anything particularlike that. I know someone long ago mentioned EVMS was switching to being more publicly funded or something.

Anyhow, It seems the like a strong/sufficient performance in the Med Master program in the eyes of the EVMS adcoms is high passing or honoring all the courses or basically getting no C's whatsoever. Like at all SMPs, your're expected to better than the medical mean.

During 1st semester, high passing or honoring your classes seems very doable esp. because you aren't taking one of the core science courses which M1's have to take: anatomy.

But during the 2nd semester, the expectations for MM's seems, in my opinion, seems way more difficult/unrealistic, regardless of the effort one puts forth, because essentially you are taking simultaneously all of the 3 same core science courses as the M1's: Biochem, Physio, and Neuroscience. Yet you are expected to consistently do better in all the classes than the folks who had higher stats than you lol.

Looking far back in this thread, it seems like years ago medical masters at one point didn't take neuroscience during the 2nd semester.

But oh well, it is it what it is. This SMP empirically still produces better results than many other SMPs. And anyone doing an SMP is in that position for a reason. Note that I am an outsider looking in. I'm not in the program nor have I been accepted yet. Any bit of info in this post could be factually incorrect (unintentionally that is). This post also wasn't meant to be a question or to provoke anyone or anything. I'm just sharing my thoughts and reactions after just reading all 37 pages of this enormous thread.

I think this is pretty hard to comment on being an outisder and not have gone through the program. First, MM students are not taking Human Development, Patient Interviewing classes, or have the mentor program to show up to second semester. Secondly, The point of the medical masters program is to prove that you are just as good if not better than these M1 students "with higher stats".

Interesting perspective though.

I see what your saying... and I changed my original post. Didn't really mean to say unrealistic, moreso just meant second sem. seems much tougher than 1st sem in terms of doing better than the medical mean. But at the end of the day the program works.

Originally Posted by whatooo

I see what your saying... and I changed my original post. Didn't really mean to say unrealistic, moreso just meant second sem. seems much tougher than 1st sem in terms of doing better than the medical mean. But at the end of the day the program works.

I would argue that second semester has actually been somewhat easier (even with the 30-pg thesis, interview, and Neuro/etc). By spring, you have a better sense of how to study efficiently and deciding what works best for you, even if that means seeking out a tutor. It is not so much about doing better than the medical students' mean (although that is expected), but rather proving that you can handle the material and ultimately pass boards/etc.

I have to agree with Clown22 - no matter how you cut it, the med masters have fewer academic requirements than the M1s (even with the paper requirement). The point of the program is to prove that you can handle the medical school courseload and do well in it. The fact that you probably have lower "stats" than most of the M1s doesn't matter in the slightest. If you (who are, hopefully, highly motivated to get into medical school) aren't able to do better than the M1 average while taking less courses than them (who are already in medical school and the majority of whom are not gunners), then your argument that you can handle and deserve to get into medical school is pretty weak.

^sorry about that long run-on sentence haha

Looking far back in this thread, it seems like years ago medical masters at one point didn't take neuroscience during the 2nd semester.

That was the case when I was in the Med Masters program - we didn't take Neuroscience, but we did take 2 additional courses - one with the PhD students on molecular biology and one with just the med masters on research. The switch to taking neuroscience instead of those courses is a HUGE improvement, believe me, if only because you are taking another medical school class where you are graded against the med students.

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

Am I correct in thinking that all med master's students are applying via AMCAS while in the program and send off their primaries in the June(ish) area? Any extra kinks the MM's go through during this process or is it pretty much similar to a traditional applicant?

Yes, you are correct. The "extra kinks" generally involve the fact that some schools won't consider your enrollment/grades in the MM program until you have finished the program (several of the California schools come to mind that have this explicit policy), while others will. The program administration is extremely willing to help you keep the schools you are applying to updated with regards to your progress and grades.

If anyone's looking for a roommate for next year, feel free to PM me. (sorry to take up this thread with that, but I'm off FB)

Waitlisted, does anyone know how that works?
I am headed into Norfolk in the next week or so, and I would welcome a visit with any current students to discuss the program.
Good luck to those waiting, and congratulations to those accepted.

How did people find out about their decisions? Via phone calls or email or snail mail? I emailed Leah on Friday asking about my status. She responded this morning with a simple "please call me" email. I tried calling her throughout the morning, but she is unavailable. I'm getting really nervous because I don't know what "please call me" could mean!??

I was told through email that I was accepted.

Snail mail waitlisted.

I was also told via email that I was accepted. Have any accepted students received a packet or materials via snail mail? It seems like relevant forms are posted on the application site, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Originally Posted by kmc3830

I was also told via email that I was accepted. Have any accepted students received a packet or materials via snail mail? It seems like relevant forms are posted on the application site, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

You don't get anything in the mail. Just follow the steps and fill out the forms on the page that it shows after you decide to accept your offer.

P.S. Also, join the facebook group!

Is there a list of schools that EVMS SMP students are advised to apply to?

Originally Posted by clown22

Is there a list of schools that EVMS SMP students are advised to apply to?

Nope

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Nope

What about a list of schools that students have been accepted to from the evms smp program?

All that info is in this thread - if you don't want to read the whole thing, just go to around May-June or so of each year and you should find it.

If you live in Norfolk for at least one year (Med Master's + the following summer), can you qualify for in-state tuition as an M1 (assuming you are accepted to EVMS and plan on attending)? If so, should those of us who are OOS (and are applying during the Med Master's program) list ourselves as OOS on AMCAS and then request a change in tuition status at a later date?

Originally Posted by maxb229

If you live in Norfolk for at least one year (Med Master's + the following summer), can you qualify for in-state tuition as an M1 (assuming you are accepted to EVMS and plan on attending)? If so, should those of us who are OOS (and are applying during the Med Master's program) list ourselves as OOS on AMCAS and then request a change in tuition status at a later date?

Generally no, going to school in state X doesn't make you a resident in state X.

From state council of higher ed for VA:

Mere physical presence or residence primarily for educational purposes will not confer domiciliary status. For example, a student who moves to Virginia for the primary purposes of becoming a full-time student is not a Virginia domiciliary, even if the student has been in Virginia for the required one-year period.

If you want to make a claim for instate med school tuition at EVMS (or another VA school), then you need to line up a bunch of ducks well ahead of the date by which the M1 year starts (this year it's Aug 13):
- drivers license
- car reg
- voter reg
- street address (as verified on a lease and/or utility bills)
- VA income taxes (regardless of where income was earned)

All of the above can be requested by the school in verification of state residency, in addition to your parents' tax returns (to show if you're listed as a dependent) and other stuff.

If you are going to try for this, have a chat with Dr. Meyer first. Like by June.

Best of luck to you.

News flash: the required purchase of a Dell laptop was overturned. You still have to bring or buy a computer that meets basic specs. (This is EXTREMELY good news.)

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

If you are going to try for this, have a chat with Dr. Meyer first. Like by June.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll look a bit more in to the benefits/burdens of pushing for in-state.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

News flash: the required purchase of a Dell laptop was overturned. You still have to bring or buy a computer that meets basic specs. (This is EXTREMELY good news.)

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

News flash: the required purchase of a Dell laptop was overturned. You still have to bring or buy a computer that meets basic specs. (This is EXTREMELY good news.)

Awesome!

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

News flash: the required purchase of a Dell laptop was overturned. You still have to bring or buy a computer that meets basic specs. (This is EXTREMELY good news.)

Great! Considering I just purchased a spanking-new MacBook Pro, boom...

Originally Posted by NJD519

Great! Considering I just purchased a spanking-new MacBook Pro, boom...

Don't lose that receipt.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

Don't lose that receipt.

Why? Would a mac not be a good computer for EVMS?

Originally Posted by clown22

Why? Would a mac not be a good computer for EVMS?

Save the receipt because a computer is a required educational expense. That means you can:
- get a budget increase to cover the cost, up to $2200 (raising your financial aid award, if you choose)
- in some cases deduct the expense on taxes

But good catch, because I hadn't looked at the requirements before I assumed Macs were cool. Which they are, thankfully.

Here's the requirement list:

EVMS Laptop Computing Requirements:
Netbooks, iPads and other tablets are not viable choices to fulfill the computing
requirement.
Windows 7 32 or 64 bit Home Premium or higher is recommended (Mac OSX 10.6 or
higher will likely work but is not officially supported)
Browser: PC: Microsoft Internet Explorer version 8
Mac: Safari version 3.2.1 or higher
Do not use beta versions of these browsers
Not be more than 2 years old
Minimum 4-year service plan
Minimum dual core processor
Minimum 2 GB of RAM
Minimum screen resolution 1024 x 768
Wireless card that supports 802.11 b/g/n
Microsoft Office 2010 Standard Edition or Higher (this can be purchased through EVMS
at a reduced rate after enrollment)
A CD/DVD Drive
External Storage device for data backup

Note for Mac users: EVMS requires some tests to be taken with ExamSoft. So you have to have an Intel-based system, you don't want to upgrade to OSX 10.8, and you don't want to be thinking about using VMWare to bypass those requirements.

In general with EVMS, you can't assume that the academic computing department has the capacity to figure things out for you, or figure things out before they need to be figured out. You have to be proactive as a student to evangelize the consequences of mandates (such the previously required Dell laptop) in order to get troublesome decisions reconsidered. Freaking out, shrill complaint and finger-pointing is not necessary, but being polite, concise, reasoned and professional is necessary. Just like in real life.

--

--

Originally Posted by peppermintle

Hi! I'm a CA resident and was wondering what your take was on me applying to the UCs while doing the EVMS MM program.

Generally if you need an SMP, you need to finish the SMP before you apply to a UC. And one of my former MM classmates is an anecdotal exception to this.

Your stats would probably get you UC interviews if you applied MD now. So you're not completely dreaming.

Originally Posted by peppermintle

As you said before, UCs do not apply my work at EVMS to the application but you also said in the past, some CA residents have been accepted back in CA at a UC school. So I was wondering, do you think it is worth applying to the UCs with my stats?? I have a 3.4 sgpa/3.5cgpa and a 32 MCAT with a lot of shadowing/volunteering/community service work.

Of course it's worth applying. But if getting into a UC is your goal, an SMP like Gtown or Loyola and a 2 year plan makes more sense than EVMS.

Originally Posted by peppermintle

Also, since UCs don't apply the MM work, what do CA resident's list of schools they apply to look like?? USC + Virginia Schools?? I went back and read through all the pages of this thread to find out before asking, but couldn't find a direct answer so I decided to ask you If some of these questions cannot be answered, I understand (it's a lot of random knowledge...) but thank you so much for all your help!!

My recommendation has always been to apply to:
1. schools that have SMPs
2. all your home state public schools

Originally Posted by peppermintle

Oh! I'm asking about applying to the UCs with my stats in respect to what you have seen in the past with others who have received UC acceptances (I think someone was accepted into UCI and UCSF???)

The last guy who got a UC acceptance during the MM year also had a top Ivy interview during the MM year. He may have even been waitlisted at a UC when he started the MM program.

I've never heard of somebody getting into UCSF from EVMS med masters.

My knowledge of the year-to-year changes at the UC's is almost tapped out, btw.

Best of luck to you.

Here's an opinion on what you want to do for EVMS MM coursework on your AMCAS app.

All coursework is grad work. Semesters. Course type: current/future. No transcript required.

Based on the 2010-2011 MM data, which could change, but probably won't, and on the (unchanged) curriculum currently on http://www.evms.edu/evms-school-of-h...l-masters.html, and on my reading of the AMCAS course categorization instructions, and on AMCAS accepting what I did with no questions:

Fall semester

Course classification: Biology
Course number: BM501
Course name: Medical Molecular & Cell Biology
Hours: 5

Course classification: Biology
Course number: BM503
Course name: Histology
Hours: 6

Course classification: Health professions
Course number: BM507
Course name: Recent Advances in Biomedical Sciences
Hours: 2

Course classification: Biology
Course number: BM504
Course name: Embryology
Hours: 3

Spring semester

Course classification: Biology
Course number: BM505
Course name: Medical Physiology
Hours: 5

Course classification: Health professions
Course number: BM513
Course name: Library Research Paper
Hours: 4

Course classification: Chemistry
Course number: BM502
Course name: Medical Biochemistry
Hours: 5

Course classification: Biology
Course number: BM514
Course name: Medical Neuroscience
Hours: 4
= = = = =
Note: before you submit, check for updates on the EVMS website. You are not responsible for changes in curriculum that happen after AMCAS opens.
Note: but, while your primary can be super early, there's a benefit to waiting to complete secondaries until the program starts. Be politely and enthusiastically in Dr. Solhaug's face to get your "intro letter" sent out right away, so that your secondary and your Solhaug letter come at about the same time
Note: I'm referring to my AMCAS report, which truncates the class category to "HEAL". It's probably "health sciences" not "health professions"

Hello Dr. Midlife,

As I will be applying to medical schools this summer, but also attending MM this August, would it be wise to apply to schools as early as possible, or wait to get a letter?

Or how about applying early to other schools, but only waiting for the letter from EVMS?

What are the pros and cons?

Originally Posted by soybean28

Hello Dr. Midlife,

As I will be applying to medical schools this summer, but also attending MM this August, would it be wise to apply to schools as early as possible, or wait to get a letter?

Or how about applying early to other schools, but only waiting for the letter from EVMS?

What are the pros and cons?

Hmm, I thought I just answered that, directly above your post:


So I'm alleging that there's a benefit to holding your secondaries until the MM intro letter goes out to schools. Does that help?

First of all, thank you Dr. Midlife for the very helpful information.

Originally Posted by soybean28

Hello Dr. Midlife,

As I will be applying to medical schools this summer, but also attending MM this August, would it be wise to apply to schools as early as possible, or wait to get a letter?

Or how about applying early to other schools, but only waiting for the letter from EVMS?

What are the pros and cons?

I'm certainly no expert, but pretty sure my game plan will be to submit my primaries right away in June to just get it over and done with early. Probably no harm in waiting til July/Aug but what's the point, especially when we'll probably be busy with preparing for starting the semester during this time. Given the ~6 week primary verification time period, secondaries should be coming out a few weeks before the beginning of the semester.

I think Dr. Midlife has some good advice here with potentially waiting on Dr. Solhaug's intro letter for secondaries to other schools. My question is when would this letter be sent out? Are we talking middle of August when the semester starts or later on? Just thinking that I don't want my secondary applications to weigh me down as the semester goes on. However, my EVMS secondary will probably be sent out right away even if we don't interview til March or something ridiculous like that.

On a completely unrelated note, has anybody started looking for housing in the Norfolk area yet? I heard to wait until late May/early June as the M4's and other graduates are leaving but I'm starting to think this might be too late. I know there is a limited number of campus housing for about the same price as any place in Ghent ($700-850/month). Anybody know of other affordable housing options within biking distance to campus?

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

On a completely unrelated note, has anybody started looking for housing in the Norfolk area yet? I heard to wait until late May/early June as the M4's and other graduates are leaving but I'm starting to think this might be too late. I know there is a limited number of campus housing for about the same price as any place in Ghent ($700-850/month). Anybody know of other affordable housing options within biking distance to campus?

I haven't started looking seriously, only cursory online. I already have my name on the waitlist at Hague Club Apartments, but the chances of getting in there as a MM are unlikely. Pembroke is another popular place for students; they have 2 BR's starting at $1,150 (<$600/mo per person, not including utilities) and 3 BR's starting at $1400 ().

p.s. I take it you worked as a scribe. I've been doing the same for the past two years at three different ER's. Quite an experience, as I'm sure you well know.

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

when would this letter be sent out? Are we talking middle of August when the semester starts

yes

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

Just thinking that I don't want my secondary applications to weigh me down as the semester goes on.

Right, get your essays done and have your secondaries ready to send before school starts. Think of the Solhaug letter as an LOR that you send through AMCAS, just like all your other LORs. You want that Solhaug LOR to be available when med schools review your secondary. (You have no control over the review of your primary app, just let that go.)

For schools that let you list the LORs they should expect in the secondary (which is common), you should list the EVMS letter from Solhaug. That is excellent expectation-setting for schools - you don't get infinite free review passes on your app every time a new letter shows up - set them up to know what they should wait for, before they start reviewing your secondary. And/but: wait for Solhaug's instructions during the first week of class.

And again, if you are already in good standing with your home state schools, maybe you got interviews/waitlists this cycle, you should not wait for EVMS assets. If you're already a competitive candidate, you don't need to wait for Solhaug's letter - listing the EVMS coursework is good enough.

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

However, my EVMS secondary will probably be sent out right away even if we don't interview til March or something ridiculous like that.

Your MD app at EVMS is a completely different thing than MD apps to other schools. EVMS will do exactly nothing with your MD app until the middle of second semester of your MM year. You gain nothing by submitting your EVMS app/2ry before school starts.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by Scribe2Doc

On a completely unrelated note, has anybody started looking for housing in the Norfolk area yet? I heard to wait until late May/early June as the M4's and other graduates are leaving but I'm starting to think this might be too late. I know there is a limited number of campus housing for about the same price as any place in Ghent ($700-850/month). Anybody know of other affordable housing options within biking distance to campus?

Search this thread for "Ghent". Nothing has changed since my last exhaustive writeup.

I'm working on getting added to the various facebook groups to get roommate openings cross-posted.

Craigslist (Norfolk.craigslist.org, search on Ghent) has started picking up in the last week or so. (I have it in my reader feed.)

Originally Posted by maxb229

I haven't started looking seriously, only cursory online. I already have my name on the waitlist at Hague Club Apartments, but the chances of getting in there as a MM are unlikely. Pembroke is another popular place for students; they have 2 BR's starting at $1,150 (<$600/mo per person, not including utilities) and 3 BR's starting at $1400 ().

p.s. I take it you worked as a scribe. I've been doing the same for the past two years at three different ER's. Quite an experience, as I'm sure you well know.

If any of you are on wait-lists, what are you thinking about doing when it comes to signing a lease? when do you think you can safley comit and give up hope on the wait-listed spot? I am just wondering, because i am on two wait-lists and don't want to find a place and a roommate and completely bail. So i thought i would get some advice from others in the same boat.

P.S. Sorry! I meant any of you that are accepted to Medical Masters but on MD wait-lists.

Originally Posted by maxb229

I haven't started looking seriously, only cursory online. I already have my name on the waitlist at Hague Club Apartments, but the chances of getting in there as a MM are unlikely. Pembroke is another popular place for students; they have 2 BR's starting at $1,150 (<$600/mo per person, not including utilities) and 3 BR's starting at $1400 ().

p.s. I take it you worked as a scribe. I've been doing the same for the past two years at three different ER's. Quite an experience, as I'm sure you well know.

By any chance, do you have a link or any more info on how to get an apartment at Pembroke? All I could find on the EVMS website was how to get on the waitlist for Hague Club.

http://haguetowers.com/pembroke.htm

I'm a CA resident and was wondering what your take was on me applying to the UCs..

You need to recognize that three of the five UC med schools are nationally-ranked, top-15 med schools. Two are top 10. Thus, everyone needs top 15 numbers to get in to those, and top 5 numbers for UCSF. Anyone needing an SMP by definition, does not fit that requirement. The only exceptions are applicants with really special circumstances: the UCs just love students with a great life story to tell, particularly if you are from a disadvantaged background. Also recognize that approximately a third of the matriculants to UCSF are from just two schools: Cal and Stanford. Add in the other top privates on the west coast, full of California residents, such as Pomona, USC and Caltech, AND all of the California residents who go east for undergrad (Ivies, WashU, Hopkins, top LACs), and....well just say the UCSF is mighty competitive.

As the Great One was fond of saying, 'you miss every shot that you don't take', but the lottery odds are probably better than aiming for UCSF from an SMP, without a HUGE hook.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

I've never heard of somebody getting into UCSF from EVMS med masters.

Yeah I guess this just shows the "telephone" nature of this thread - there was a student (from my MM class) who went to UCSF after her Med Master year, but she had decided that clinical medicine was not for her during the MM year and applied for a PhD program at UCSF, which she then matriculated into.

I guess somewhere along the line, "UCSF PhD program" turned into "OMG UCSF Med acceptance!"

was wondering where to find the information that you do get an interview to evms from the program if you do well (if this is true at all)? I looked on their site but couldn't find it

http://www.evms.edu/evms-school-of-h...l-masters.html

Originally Posted by Melomare17

was wondering where to find the information that you do get an interview to evms from the program if you do well (if this is true at all)? I looked on their site but couldn't find it

http://www.evms.edu/evms-school-of-h...l-masters.html

Every student in the med masters program gets an EVMS med school interview during spring semester. That could change, but up until now, that's what happens.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

Every student in the med masters program gets an EVMS med school interview during spring semester. That could change, but up until now, that's what happens.

Alright thanks!

Has anyone found a place yet or even started looking?

Originally Posted by clown22

Has anyone found a place yet or even started looking?

Haven't started looking yet. I've only applied for the Hague Club apartments. If I don't hear back from them by late June, I'll start looking elsewhere. I think we've got plenty of time, it sounds like things start to move in July.

Originally Posted by maxb229

Haven't started looking yet. I've only applied for the Hague Club apartments. If I don't hear back from them by late June, I'll start looking elsewhere. I think we've got plenty of time, it sounds like things start to move in July.

I didn't know med masters had a chance for Hague Towers. Did you apply for a 1 or 2 bedroom place?

Originally Posted by clown22

I didn't know med masters had a chance for Hague Towers. Did you apply for a 1 or 2 bedroom place?

I checked off every option except for the one bedroom w/loft, but I was told by Carol Ashburn that there would be no singles available this year. MM's can definitely apply. Basically, it's up to current or incoming tenants to choose their own roommates, based on what names Carol gives them and in what order. I just got an e-mail from her today saying that she had three students looking for roommates, so it's worth a shot, but it's competitive even for incoming med students. I'm not sure how many names she has on the waitlist, but I'm sure it's a lot.

EDIT: Here's the link for the application:

http://www.evms.edu/images/stories/p...ication-21.pdf

the Hague:
--> a neighborhood near EVMS that overlaps with Ghent, defined by a semi-circular waterway. Distinctive feature: flooding.
Hague Club:
--> EVMS-owned student housing. Long waitlist.
Hague Park:
--> an apartment building across the street from Hague Club. Crappy website that isn't even working now.
Hague Towers:
--> another apartment building, same owner as Pembroke Towers. Less long waitlist. Decent website.

Students live in all of the above.