match results 2012

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Originally Posted by bala565

Just FYI and clarity purposes, ACP/AAFP/AAP do not set standards for residencies and in fact none of the specialty colleges have anything to do with residency standards.

Residency standards are set by the ACGME and the respective specialty board (e.g. ABIM/ABFM/etc.) and on the AOA side by the AOA and the respective osteopathic specialty board (e.g. AOBIM).

One should definitely go where they are happy because as you mentioned happiness does increase your chance for success. But just because all programs meet the minimum standards doesn't mean they all provide equal education/opportunities. Also the concept of malignancy is very important and often forgotten by medical students.

Is there a difference in quality of education between place that's ranked 50th vs 70th (or 30th vs 60th)? No
Is there a difference in quality of education between a mid-tier university program and a random 200 bed community program? ABSOLUTELY

Congratulations to you and all other matched OMS-IVs as well!

Just for the sake of questioning: what would the negative impact be if one did their residency in the "random 200 bed community program?" I certainly wouldn't prefer this, but with the difficulty that DO's face in matching competitive fields (even talking about gen surg), what would the downsides to a poor residency location be, aside from general unhappiness. Upon graduation, would the prospects for hire be any better/worse or are you talking about purely the level of skills the surgeon/clinician would have following a poor residency placement?

Originally Posted by necronomicon

Just for the sake of questioning: what would the negative impact be if one did their residency in the "random 200 bed community program?" I certainly wouldn't prefer this, but with the difficulty that DO's face in matching competitive fields (even talking about gen surg), what would the downsides to a poor residency location be, aside from general unhappiness. Upon graduation, would the prospects for hire be any better/worse or are you talking about purely the level of skills the surgeon/clinician would have following a poor residency placement?

If you want to enter private practice, it makes very little difference where you do residency; If you want to enter into academics/research then it makes a huge difference.

As I specified in my post, I was mainly talking about educational opportunities/skills (which are fairly important). Also don't underestimate the happiness factor. That's at the very least 3 years of your 20s/30s. You have to be able to look back 10 years later and not think you were unhappy/abused for 3 years in what is supposed to be some of the best years of your life.

These generalizations are just that, generalizations and don't apply to individuals. One can certainly go to a 200 bed community program and come out with great skills and land a great fellowship and then with a great academic job (very much possible but greatly unlikely)...

Originally Posted by bala565

Just FYI and clarity purposes, ACP/AAFP/AAP do not set standards for residencies and in fact none of the specialty colleges have anything to do with residency standards.

Residency standards are set by the ACGME and the respective specialty board (e.g. ABIM/ABFM/etc.) and on the AOA side by the AOA and the respective osteopathic specialty board

This is what I am referring to when I say guidelines. I was under the impression that the ACP has an equivalent. Am I mistaken?

http://www.acoi.org/doclib/doclib_po...7751409007.pdf

Originally Posted by LSU Alex

This is what I am referring to when I say guidelines. I was under the impression that the ACP has an equivalent. Am I mistaken?

http://www.acoi.org/doclib/doclib_po...7751409007.pdf

ACP doesn't or if it does they are not binding... on the ACGME side, the programs are only responsible for guidelines by ACGME and the specialty board (e.g. ABIM for IM).

Specialty boards (e.g. ABIM) mainly focus on the certification part... ACGME is the organization in charge of setting the standards.

Edit: I stand corrected with regards to the AOA side and will edit my original post to reflect that. Thanks for pointing it out!

Originally Posted by bala565

These generalizations are just that, generalizations and don't apply to individuals. One can certainly go to a 200 bed community program and come out with great skills and land a great fellowship and then with a great academic job (very much possible but greatly unlikely)...

I agree with this statement. I did my 3rd year core rotations at a new DO IM program in north MS (they graduated their 1st class as I was taking Step 2). This was a small 169-bed community hospital. One of the residents decided he was going to work his butt off during his 3 years and made it to a cardiology fellowship in Chicago. So again, there are always opportunities and possibilities. You have to decide how much effort you are willing to give no matter what the circumstances are.

Originally Posted by DocEspana

Apparently the Hopkins match was anasthesia. So thats pretty good!

hopkins anes though not initially seems to be becoming more DO friendly. we've had 3 go in the last 2 years (incl one this year to their research track and one just reg anes).

CCOM Match List 2012, looks pretty decent

ACGME ophtho match is pretty impressive...

Originally Posted by Vancomycin12

ACGME ophtho match is pretty impressive...

Two of them, no less. Three DO uro surg, too. Not their best match but some really solid programs in there.
The list seems incomplete, though. CCOM graduates ~200 each year and there are only like 175 on the list. Then again, I could be missing something.

Originally Posted by necronomicon

Two of them, no less. Three DO uro surg, too. Not their best match but some really solid programs in there.
The list seems incomplete, though. CCOM graduates ~200 each year and there are only like 175 on the list. Then again, I could be missing something.

Yeah, crazy. 2 ACGME optho, one at U of Chicago. I was hoping to see a cook county EM, I wonder if they're making it harder for DO's to match there.

MSUCOM 2012 match list:

AOA: http://www.com.msu.edu/admissions/2012OsteoMatch.TXT

ACGME: http://www.com.msu.edu/admissions/20...pathicMtch.pdf

Originally Posted by dav86

CCOM Match List 2012, looks pretty decent

That is a great match list. The University of Chicago Ophtho spot is excellent, and the PM&R spot at RIC is the best in that field.

Originally Posted by LastPolarBear

Yeah, crazy. 2 ACGME optho, one at U of Chicago. I was hoping to see a cook county EM, I wonder if they're making it harder for DO's to match there.

I tried, but was unsuccessful, thought I am real happy with IU. They take DOs, I don't know how many they took this year, but they have a chief resident from CCOM and a third year from CCOM, and about 2-3 DOs per class, so I am pretty sure they still take them. From what I know about Cook, you need 2 SLORs to get an interview plus good scores. I think rotating there is very important, so if thats something you are interested in I would suggest setting one up when the time comes.

Originally Posted by necronomicon

Two of them, no less. Three DO uro surg, too. Not their best match but some really solid programs in there.
The list seems incomplete, though. CCOM graduates ~200 each year and there are only like 175 on the list. Then again, I could be missing something.

Na class sizes through our class were 160-175 as far as I know. They upped the class size to 200 for class of 2013 and rumored to be upping it again in the future to 250ish.

Originally Posted by dav86

I tried, but was unsuccessful, thought I am real happy with IU. They take DOs, I don't know how many they took this year, but they have a chief resident from CCOM and a third year from CCOM, and about 2-3 DOs per class, so I am pretty sure they still take them. From what I know about Cook, you need 2 SLORs to get an interview plus good scores. I think rotating there is very important, so if thats something you are interested in I would suggest setting one up when the time comes.

Congrats , IU is just as badass as cook county, except not in Chicago

Originally Posted by dav86

I tried, but was unsuccessful, thought I am real happy with IU. They take DOs, I don't know how many they took this year, but they have a chief resident from CCOM and a third year from CCOM, and about 2-3 DOs per class, so I am pretty sure they still take them. From what I know about Cook, you need 2 SLORs to get an interview plus good scores. I think rotating there is very important, so if thats something you are interested in I would suggest setting one up when the time comes.

Congrats on IU!

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

pikeville?

hope you have another acceptance.

What's wrong with KYCOM?

Originally Posted by doublefrick

What's wrong with KYCOM?

Nothing at all. They are probably referring to the fact that KYCOM's waitlist doesn't (historically) see a lot of movement.

Originally Posted by necronomicon

Nothing at all. They are probably referring to the fact that KYCOM's waitlist doesn't (historically) see a lot of movement.

But I'm asking about matches, not waitlist movement...

LMU-DCOM's matchlist is out.

And it's in its annoying format like last year.

http://www.lmunet.edu/dcom/pdfs/2012...y-location.pdf

Originally Posted by doublefrick

What's wrong with KYCOM?

If you dont know, then its better off I don't tell you

Originally Posted by necronomicon

Nothing at all. They are probably referring to the fact that KYCOM's waitlist doesn't (historically) see a lot of movement.

I assume he's actually referring to the ridiculously terrible reputation their clinical years have on this forum. I cant comment on the veracity of it. But I'll say that I've added fuel to the fire since every experience I've had with KYCOM students has involved them telling me horror stories about their core rotations. But the n=3 or 4 for me. And I can think of plenty more than 3 people in my school who'd give poorly representative horror stories. I'm trying to be diplomatic about this.

Originally Posted by DocEspana

If you dont know, then its better off I don't tell you



I assume he's actually referring to the ridiculously terrible reputation their clinical years have on this forum. I cant comment on the veracity of it. But I'll say that I've added fuel to the fire since every experience I've had with KYCOM students has involved them telling me horror stories about their core rotations. But the n=3 or 4 for me. And I can think of plenty more than 3 people in my school who'd give poorly representative horror stories. I'm trying to be diplomatic about this.

I understand and am not taking offense. I just want to have all the info I can is all. So it is just the rotations that are bad like bad patient encounters or being unprepared or residency? I want to be able to land a good residency if I would graduate from here.

Originally Posted by doublefrick

I understand and am not taking offense. I just want to have all the info I can is all. So it is just the rotations that are bad like bad patient encounters or being unprepared or residency? I want to be able to land a good residency if I would graduate from here.

Received your PM.

Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

Received your PM.

Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.

Similar experience with Pikeville students, and similar responses from attendings. I can't speak for them all, but there's enough negativity out there that I've had residents and attendings ask "You aren't from Pikeville, are you?" before I can even tell them my home school.

Originally Posted by LSU Alex

Similar experience with Pikeville students, and similar responses from attendings. I can't speak for them all, but there's enough negativity out there that I've had residents and attendings ask "You aren't from Pikeville, are you?" before I can even tell them my home school.

they confused you for a pikeville student?

talk about the ultimate zing.

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

Received your PM.

Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.

Pretty much exactly what I've heard too. I will add that the students I talked to said that their pre-clinical was fine but that it had no formal clinical skills education and/or there was no education on how to apply the basic science knowledge to actual patients. They said that the step/level I boards blindsided them and the 3rd year clinicals were all either at backwater places with pathetic patient loads and no teaching, or at one or two big hospitals where they generally felt underprepared and had little support from the parent school.

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

they confused you for a pikeville student?

talk about the ultimate zing.

It was a "DO = Pikeville" situation. Cause we all know the only osteopathic school in the entire universe is in Pikeville. Thing is there were many DO students from other schools rotating through that program. It was just that the Pikeville students left that bad of an impression. Now I won't go so far as to say the whole school is like that, because I don't know. In any case, to the person who got that acceptance, you should be fine if you work your arse off learning your profession.

As far as the "zing" goes, my work ethic and desire to improve usually corrects any misgivings about working with a "lowly DO."

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

Received your PM.

Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.

What types of things have they done?
I don't go there, I'm just really curious to see how bad a Pikesville student can be.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

What types of things have they done?
I don't go there, I'm just really curious to see how bad a Pikesville student can be.

On obgyn they put the speculum into the rectum. If they were to instead insert it into their mouth it would solidify the above comment that they don't know their head from their ass. Never met one myself.

Originally Posted by st2205

On obgyn they put the speculum into the rectum. If they were to instead insert it into their mouth it would solidify the above comment that they don't know their head from their ass. Never met one myself.

Originally Posted by DocEspana

Hyperbole.

Originally Posted by st2205

Hyperbole.

I just want that image out of my head. Cause I'm imagining straight A-To-M.

However, I think "doesn't know head from ass" would be an awesome comment on an eval. I wonder I'd it's ever happened.

Originally Posted by thepoopologist

What types of things have they done?
I don't go there, I'm just really curious to see how bad a Pikesville student can be.

Students from Pikeville aren't bad, just because they come from Pikeville. There are less than stellar students at every COM. However, traditionally, many onSDN love to put the other guy down and spread unsubstantiated rumors. Is it because they are bigots? Is it because they are trying to make themselves look better? It's hard to say.

The simple fact is... if you are willing to put in the work, you can get a good education at any school. You can get a good residency and a great spot as an attending as well. I've had a number of students from many schools rotate through our residency program. There has never been a single one that I don't consider salvagable. The biggest problem that occurs is in attitude. There are quite a few who would never get into my residency due to that. It's fine to be confident, but arrogance will never fly in my book. The thought that a whole school of people is incompetent because of where they go to school is pretty much an arrogant statement, IMHO. This "Oh, I don't know for them all, but every one I met is bad" kind of statement is not acceptable. It's spreading rumor and the authors should be ashamed of themselves for doing it.

Originally Posted by scpod

Students from Pikeville aren't bad, just because they come from Pikeville. There are less than stellar students at every COM. However, traditionally, many onSDN love to put the other guy down and spread unsubstantiated rumors. Is it because they are bigots? Is it because they are trying to make themselves look better? It's hard to say.

The simple fact is... if you are willing to put in the work, you can get a good education at any school. You can get a good residency and a great spot as an attending as well. I've had a number of students from many schools rotate through our residency program. There has never been a single one that I don't consider salvagable. The biggest problem that occurs is in attitude. There are quite a few who would never get into my residency due to that. It's fine to be confident, but arrogance will never fly in my book. The thought that a whole school of people is incompetent because of where they go to school is pretty much an arrogant statement, IMHO. This "Oh, I don't know for them all, but every one I met is bad" kind of statement is not acceptable. It's spreading rumor and the authors should be ashamed of themselves for doing it.

Bolded points:
1. Absolutely true. Definitely agree. No way around this one. There are stellar and sub-standard students in every med school.

2. Not just on SDN, but in their med school clicks... well, pretty much any where in life. Which is why people shouldn't look for some one else to validate their existence...

3. I have echoed this statement over and over. Your education is your own. The name of the school isn't gonna put knowledge in your head or capabilities in your hands. You must work wherever you go... doubly so if you want to be great at whatever you do.

4. First hand experience is not "rumor". When a group of people from a school develop a history at a hospital that causes attendings not to want to work with said group; there is something going on. Also while generalizing to the entire school may be inappropriate, your experience with small groups can not be ignored.

As I said previously to the newly minted KYCOM student, work your butt off. Learn everything you can. Get your hands on everything you can. You will fight perceptions that are not of your own doing all throughout life. You don't need anyone but yourself to validate yourself. If you suck, you know it. Work harder and get the help you need. Show you want to improve, and you will. Anyone will be happy to have that type of student/colleague no matter if you're from Pikeville, MeHarry, or Abu's School of Medicine on the Westside... well, maybe not that last one...

I believe it is completely legitimate to pass on direct opinions of students there when you make it clear that you are only echoing the comments of isolated individuals and you're not extrapolating on what they say.

People who I respect and generally view as leaders of their school (because they are the leaders of the school student body) should be credible enough to repeat their comments if the proper caveats are stated.

Originally Posted by scpod

Students from Pikeville aren't bad, just because they come from Pikeville. There are less than stellar students at every COM. However, traditionally, many onSDN love to put the other guy down and spread unsubstantiated rumors. Is it because they are bigots? Is it because they are trying to make themselves look better? It's hard to say.

The simple fact is... if you are willing to put in the work, you can get a good education at any school. You can get a good residency and a great spot as an attending as well. I've had a number of students from many schools rotate through our residency program. There has never been a single one that I don't consider salvagable. The biggest problem that occurs is in attitude. There are quite a few who would never get into my residency due to that. It's fine to be confident, but arrogance will never fly in my book. The thought that a whole school of people is incompetent because of where they go to school is pretty much an arrogant statement, IMHO. This "Oh, I don't know for them all, but every one I met is bad" kind of statement is not acceptable. It's spreading rumor and the authors should be ashamed of themselves for doing it.

blah blah blah.

never said every single one suck. just the overall rep isn't great and those that my former attendings (and i) had interacted with were poor. lack of basic fund of knowledge, poor in procedures (and hell, i don't exactly consider myself to be a whiz kid in either) but they made me look like a superstar apparently. even those students weren't happy with their educational experience during years 3 and 4.

how is the view from that high horse of yours?

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

Received your PM.

Anyways. I did do some rotations alongside folks from that school. They couldn't tell a head from an ass if their lives depended on it. Had a few attendings tell me their impression of DOs was incredibly low from their experience dealing with those students til they had folks from my school rotate with these same attendings. You never see a KYCOM match list on SDN. they're awful from what I understand. they don't do shelves (if i remember correctly), their rotations are awful. I dont know much about the first two years, but their main perks are the freebies they give out.

Has COCA ever stepped in to address this issue?

Originally Posted by poopyhead

Has COCA ever stepped in to address this issue?

ahaAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

Originally Posted by poopyhead

Has COCA ever stepped in to address this issue?

COCA plays a big part in this problem.

Originally Posted by bleeker10

COCA plays a big part in this problem.

How so?

Anyone hear any word on Touro-Nevada? Last year's came out around this time.

Originally Posted by doublefrick

How so?

Allowing accreditation of numerous DO schools in recent years without an established clinical education system. Some hospitals have established teaching for the students while others treat the students as a highly educated scut monkey.

Originally Posted by bleeker10

Allowing accreditation of numerous DO schools in recent years without an established clinical education system. Some hospitals have established teaching for the students while others treat the students as a highly educated scut monkey.

Ah, but the scut monkeys look so adorable in those white coats.

Originally Posted by crmellon

Ah, but the scut monkeys look so adorable in those white coats.

I heard the gunners get cymbals with their white coats...

Originally Posted by LSU Alex

I heard the gunners get cymbals with their white coats...

Haha , every time one of them gets a pimped question right, they all smack em' together in unison. Does anyone know how much oversight the AOA has on COCA?

Originally Posted by crmellon

Haha , every time one of them gets a pimped question right, they all smack em' together in unison. Does anyone know how much oversight the AOA has on COCA?

The AOA president visited my school last year and told us that COCA is a separate entity than AOA and the AOA doesn't really have much of a say in things.

Can the COCA revoke accreditation? Just wondering...

Originally Posted by doublefrick

Can the COCA revoke accreditation? Just wondering...

yes