2012 APPIC Internship Application Thread

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Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

I think you count individuals from groups in the # of individuals, although double check before doing so.

As for intervention hours, they don't include assessments (as there's a separate category for assessment hours). Intakes were the subject of discussion/confusions in a separate thread (i.e., whether they count as intervention vs. assessment hours); my and another poster's view was that it counts as intervention if the purpose was more of an initial session to better map out your conceptualization and treatment plan, and an assessment if it was simply to answer a diagnostic referral question without intentions to treat. .

Thanks AcronymAllergy! It seems that assessment hours are NOT included into intervention hours, however intakes and supervision of other students are included. For instance, look at the index here: https://portal.appicas.org/applicant...structions.htm

Same in the guidelines: https://portal.appicas.org/applicant..._2011-2012.pdf here: "The experiences that you are summarizing in this section are professional activities that you have provided in the presence of a client" (Instructions, page 20).

I have also found information that both intervention hours and assessment hours are included into direct service hours (face-to-face). For instance, if you go to this page http://www.ryerson.ca/psychology/gra...phd/index.html and then find this Guidelines for Tracking Clinical Hours , you will know what I am talking about....

Originally Posted by minichka2004

Thanks AcronymAllergy! It seems that assessment hours are NOT included into intervention hours, however intakes and supervision of other students are included. For instance, look at the index here: https://portal.appicas.org/applicant...structions.htm

Same in the guidelines: https://portal.appicas.org/applicant..._2011-2012.pdf here: "The experiences that you are summarizing in this section are professional activities that you have provided in the presence of a client" (Instructions, page 20).

I have also found information that both intervention hours and assessment hours are included into direct service hours (face-to-face). For instance, if you go to this page http://www.ryerson.ca/psychology/gra...phd/index.html and then find this Guidelines for Tracking Clinical Hours , you will know what I am talking about....

Well yes, assessment and intervention hours are both "face-to-face" time; they're just counted separately by APPIC.

I just skimmed the documents, but I don't see mention of counting supervision of other students as intervention hours. Is there a particular section where it's stated?

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Well yes, assessment and intervention hours are both "face-to-face" time; they're just counted separately by APPIC.

I just skimmed the documents, but I don't see mention of counting supervision of other students as intervention hours. Is there a particular section where it's stated?

AcronymAllergy, you may find it here:
http://aecp.oise.utoronto.ca/cp/prac...eriences10.pdf

=>"supervision of other students" => 1. Intervention Experience=>Other Psychological Experience with Students and/or Organizations

Also here (Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, OH website) http://www.bgsu.edu/downloads/cas/file59629.pdf

"INTERVENTION HOURS" include "“OTHER” HOURS. "“OTHER” HOURS" include include "Supervision of other (less experienced) students performing intervention and assessment activities, Program Development/Outreach Programming, Outcome Assessment of programs or projects, Systems Intervention/Organizational Consultation/Performance
Improvement."

Thank you for your responses regarding applying while not currently enrolled in practicum. It's good to know that others have done this successfully. I have a feeling applicants will be doing this more frequently as the match gets worse and it's good to know that it should not put these applicants out of the running. I'm going into my 5th year of my doc program post MA after not matching this year and cannot afford to keep enrolling. At this point we should be getting paid to do clinical work, not vice versa. In my program we are required to enroll in dissertation from the moment we start working on it until it's successfully defended and this is a huge financial burden when you have to pay to wait for IRB approval for several semesters and to work on it without even using university resources. Although we receive funding we have to pay tuition which requires taking out loans because the stipend is not enough to live off of. And this is an accredited PhD clinical program!

Hello Everyone,

I heard that having a lot of total practicum hours (over 2000 to 3000) is viewed poorly by training directors. Have you guys heard this information? I'm wondering if this is outdated information with the influx of psychology students and lack of internship sites. Many students are reapplying and accruing more practicum hours.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by StillMotivated

Hello Everyone,

I heard that having a lot of total practicum hours (over 2000 to 3000) is viewed poorly by training directors. Have you guys heard this information? I'm wondering if this is outdated information with the influx of psychology students and lack of internship sites. Many students are reapplying and accruing more practicum hours.

Thanks.

Myth....the more hours your have is equivalent to additional training. Most programs have three years of practicum where you may acquire more than 2000 hours. Our DCT encourages us to get as many hours as he claims it correlates with Match for APPIC internships. Only two of the students in our class did not match this year, and most of us have three-years or practicum with 1900 to 2000 hours.

One caveat may be the quality of your program as some APA accredited programs are structured over four years where students have two years of practicum, but the students they accept are top quality students, so practicum hours may not have as much of an impact on APA Match rate.

Originally Posted by 4410

Myth....the more hours your have the is equivalent to additional training.

As usual, his writing is poor (I dont know what that sentence even means) and misinformed.

Training directors are not stupid and can easily see when hours are being grossly inflated. Unless you have been in grad school, for 8 years, I should not have 2000 face to face hours. If you said you did, I would think you are lying or that your training was shoddy, or that you were counting hours you shouldn't be counting. I would suggest being at or slightly over the mean (800-1000 face to face hours) by the time you apply for internship. More is NOT better, at (at least in the eyes of quality sites). Number of hours is used as an initial cut factor and nothing more (that why they are written as minimums).

Originally Posted by erg923

Training directors are not stupid and can easily see when hours are being grossly inflated. Unless you have been in grad school, for 8 years, I should not have 2000 face to face hours. If you said you did, I would think you are lying or that your training was shoddy, or that you were counting hours you shouldn't be counting. I would suggest being at or slightly over the mean (800-1000 face to face hours) by the time you apply for internship. More is NOT better, at (at least in the eyes of quality sites). Number of hours is used as an initial cut factor and nothing more (that why they are written as minimums).

This exactly. I just thought I'd add some math. 2000 contact hours over 3 years (assuming a full 12 months at each site, which isn't always the case) = 13 contact hours a week. We all know that there are no-shows, cancellations, holidays, etc., so to get an average of 13 contact hours a week at most sites, you would need to be scheduled for around 17. Considering that you should be receiving supervision, didactic hours, and also have time built in for paperwork, getting that many contact hours would necessitate working at your site around 35 hours a week (unless you are receiving minimal supervision, which would also be a red flag). Three straight years of working 35 hours a week at practicum? That certainly doesn't sound like good training.

More does not equal better. One place I interviewed explicitly told us they do not interview applicants with too many hours. I've heard TDs at other sites say they look at the ratio of clinical contact hours to supervision hours, not at the totals for each.

Thank you erg923 and KillerDiller. I'm talking about overall hours though not face-to-face. If you have a lot of hours writing reports, scoring, working on research projects, didactics, etc. Was the TD you spoke to talking about overall hours or face-to-face hours?

Originally Posted by StillMotivated

Thank you erg923 and KillerDiller. I'm talking about overall hours though not face-to-face. If you have a lot of hours writing reports, scoring, working on research projects, didactics, etc. Was the TD you spoke to talking about overall hours or face-to-face hours?

TDs do not care about "support hours" other than making sure you have the appopriate ratio of supervision hours.

Originally Posted by StillMotivated

Thank you erg923 and KillerDiller. I'm talking about overall hours though not face-to-face. If you have a lot of hours writing reports, scoring, working on research projects, didactics, etc. Was the TD you spoke to talking about overall hours or face-to-face hours?

I was referring to total hours. APA standards are 650 hours per year. I had 669 my first year, 1015 my second year and 400 for my advanced practicum year. APA only requires two years of practicum so the third year is optional, but many students do three years of practicum in my program. Some programs that have captured internships such as UTSW may only have two years of practcum and hours may not be a concerns since they all do their internship locally.

Everyone tells me that more is better and I don't know how you could interpret this as padding your hours because you are under supervision and your supervisor documents and signs off on your hours. I believe padding is a term used to artificially inflate your hours in a fraudulent manner or method. This would be a ethic violation and most likely get you kicked out of the program if you engaged in such activity.

Originally Posted by 4410

I was referring to total hours. APA standards are 650 hours per year. I had 669 my first year, 1015 my second year and 400 for my advanced practicum year. APA only requires two years of practicum so the third year is optional, but many students do three years of practicum in my program. Some programs that have captured internships such as UTSW may only have two years of practcum and hours may not be a concerns since they all do their internship locally."

"Everyone tells me that more is better and I don't know how you could interpret this as padding your hours because you are under supervision and your supervisor documents and signs off on your hours. I believe padding is a term used to artificially inflate your hours in a fraudulent manner or method. This would be a ethic violation and most likely get you kicked out of the program if you engaged in such activity."

How many of those hours are actually face-to face patient contact (e.g., therapy, assessment where you were with a patient)? That is the most important number. Supervision also plays a role, as sites do not want you to have a ton of contact hours without adequate supervision. For example, some sites may have you complete 8 hour neuro assessments, but you better have 2 hours of supervision for good training.

If you include supervision and support hours in your APPIC intervention and assessment hours than that is an example of padding. For the APPIC, the most important numbers are only face-to face hours. If you/your cohort had 2000 APPIC intervention and assessment hours something is likely off. More than likely the hours were around the mean as mentioned previously.

Originally Posted by 4410

Everyone tells me that more is better.

I think that's because you come from, as we all know on here, a, ahem, unique training program/enviornment. In reality, the predominent model in the profession is that your grad school years are balanced with the demands of becoming a clincian, a scientist, and scholar in this field. If all you do is practicum training and some classes, then you have missed half of what being trained as a psychologist actually means/is. This isnt a trade school...is a doctorate.

Could your provide a citation that confirms a link between number of practicum hours and clinical competence at time of intenrship. I would think that curve flattens out somewhere, no? Or do you just believe everything that professors in your program tell you?

I've known people who graduated from my program with >2000 face-to-face hours, although it certainly wasn't the norm, and these individuals were almost hypomanic in their activity levels.

As others have said, so long as you're around the mean/median, you'll be fine. At that point, it seems to be more about the variety and overall quality of the hours for most sites, as opposed to the sheer number of them.

Oh, great. Now I'm supposed to be getting 650 face-to-face hours per year?!? No wonder everyone panics about their hours.

I'm so f*cked.

Originally Posted by paramour

Oh, great. Now I'm supposed to be getting 650 face-to-face hours per year?!? No wonder everyone panics about their hours.

I'm so f*cked.

For what it's worth, I had lower face-to-face hours then several of my peers. Most of it was due to the nature of my practicum sites (first year conducting court-ordered assessments, the second year at a juvenile facility). By the time I got to a site where I actually got a lot of face-to-face hours (my current practicum at a jail), it was too late in terms of when internship applications were due. I know from the other thread that you want a BOP, and I am an example of someone who got a BOP site without 650 face-to-face hours a year. So don't give up hope yet

Originally Posted by CSOPP

For what it's worth, I had lower face-to-face hours then several of my peers. Most of it was due to the nature of my practicum sites (first year conducting court-ordered assessments, the second year at a juvenile facility). By the time I got to a site where I actually got a lot of face-to-face hours (my current practicum at a jail), it was too late in terms of when internship applications were due. I know from the other thread that you want a BOP, and I am an example of someone who got a BOP site without 650 face-to-face hours a year. So don't give up hope yet

I was speaking a bit tongue-in-cheek there. I'm imagining new folks reading this thread and panicking (as do many of our new students when they start hearing hours and how many they "need" to be considered competitive--aaah, the good ole' days). I'm technically "set" for hours overall. I just need to work on my assessment hours and then I'll be gold.

Originally Posted by StillMotivated

Was the TD you spoke to talking about overall hours or face-to-face hours?

Definitely face-to-face/contact hours. As far as I know, no one really cares how many overall hours you spend doing practicum. Contact and supervision hours are what TDs will be looking at. As long as you clear a site's minimum requirements, you should be fine. Even after 3 years of prac, I had fewer hours than the mean/median for applicants (I suspect inflation plays a roll). Anyway, I still did fine with interviews and didn't have a problem clearing sites' minimums.

The number of hours one accumulates is very important. However, as others have pointed out, the quality of those hours is probably more important. Experience does not necessarily equal competence or expertise. Indicators of quality experience, in my opinion, include the following: 1) The ratio of supervision to face-to-face assessment/therapy hours, 2) The ratio of group supervision versus individual supervision, 3) Audio/video recording review or live observation, and 4) Reputation of the training site and/or supervisor. In terms of the total number of hours, I would think that 800-1200 would be "sweet spot" for face-to-face hours. I am not sure what the optimal ration would be for supervision hours. What do others think?

APA minimum per year is 650 total hours and not face-to-face hours. Two hours per week of supervision is required or one hour of individual supervision and an additional hour of individual or group supervision. My face-to-face hours were basically 50% of my hours in my first two years of practicum but in my advanced practicum it was close to 80% face-to-face hours as I was in a site where clients were seen once or twice per week and I was there two days per week and seeing seven clients once per week and three clients twice a week. My second year practicum was a 32 hour per practicum four days a week and this is why I had many more hours during this practicum year. My first year practicum was an assessment practicum with neuropsychology emphasis, so I was working two days a week and doing one to three evals a week and writing reports at home during my days away or weekends.

Originally Posted by futurepsydoc

3) I am not sure what the optimal ration would be for supervision hours. What do others think?

Our practicum coordinator mentioned that a 1:4 ratio of supervision to contact hours is a good marker. I'm sure anything higher than this is perfectly fine. Much lower than this would likely raise concerns.

Originally Posted by 4410

APA minimum per year is 650 total hours and not face-to-face hours.

APA mimium for what? Specific prac hours aren't mentioned as part of the criteria for program accreditation.

Originally Posted by 4410

APA minimum per year is 650 total hours and not face-to-face hours.

False. APA does not have this as a policy. Are you even vaguley familair with the program accrediation process? It doesn't sound like you are.

Granted I come from a different training era, but if your mentor allows you to get anywhere near your fourth year without gaining enough training hours to be competitive for the internships you've been preparing yourself for since somewhere around your second year, then your mentor is neglecting their responsibilities. If you don't have mentors in your program, then you have bigger problems. If instead of mentors, you have "admission counselors", then you have really big problems.

I have never heard that there is a specific number of hours that student's need to acquire, per year, in order to meet APA standards. If there is such a standard, I would like to see it in writing. A link would be fantastic.

Currently, it appears that it is the responsibility of the Training Director to determine whether you will be competitive in the match process. They are the individuals that sign off on your hours and/or can prevent you from applying. However, I am of the opinion that significantly more assistance should be provided to students by the faculty as a whole. As the competitiveness increases due to the imbalance, I think it would be wise for students to advocate for a faculty committee, dedicated to assisting students apply for internship, be formed. Some of us are fortunate to have faculty members who are available and provide a high level of guidance. Unfortunately, many people are not so fortunate.

Originally Posted by futurepsydoc

Currently, it appears that it is the responsibility of the Training Director to determine whether you will be competitive in the match process. They are the individuals that sign off on your hours and/or can prevent you from applying. However, I am of the opinion that significantly more assistance should be provided to students by the faculty as a whole. As the competitiveness increases due to the imbalance, I think it would be wise for students to advocate for a faculty committee, dedicated to assisting students apply for internship, be formed. Some of us are fortunate to have faculty members who are available and provide a high level of guidance. Unfortunately, many people are not so fortunate.

I agree in our school apart from our faculty advisor/ mentor, we are assigned a faculty that specifically helped us with our application. This helped me tremendously, with my essays, cv, cover letter and site list. This was adapted in our school in response to a low match year a few years back, I would say this helped boost our match rate because we got more support in the whole process. Other professors were also available to practice interviews with.

For those of you who have applied in the past, at what point do you really absolutely, positively NEED to have your mind set that you are applyling for internship for the current application cycle (to get everything done within a timely manner)? My decision may not be finalized until August-ish, and I'm wondering if this is too late to get in gear (especially as most folks around here seem to start prepping in May/June?).

Originally Posted by paramour

For those of you who have applied in the past, at what point do you really absolutely, positively NEED to have your mind set that you are applyling for internship for the current application cycle (to get everything done within a timely manner)? My decision may not be finalized until August-ish, and I'm wondering if this is too late to get in gear (especially as most folks around here seem to start prepping in May/June?).

I applied during the 2010-2011 cycle (i.e., currently on internship), and I knew by September of 2010 that I'd be applying. However, I didn't start actually looking at/narrowing down programs until May. And I didn't begin my actual application materials until late July/early August.

I'd say it's of course very possible to complete the materials in a timely manner if starting in August. However, I'd strongly encourage you to narrow down your site choices before then, and perhaps even come up with a brief half-page or one-page synopsis of your choices to help with cover letters. That way, a) you'll be prepared to hit the ground running should you apply, and b) even if you don't apply, much of the material will still be useful and applicable for the next cycle. Heck, you could probably even start working on your essays, given that they likely won't change much (if at all), either.

Basically, just set yourself up so that "all" you need to do is fill out the application and writer your cover letters. If that's the position you're in come August, you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

I applied during the 2010-2011 cycle (i.e., currently on internship), and I knew by September of 2010 that I'd be applying. However, I didn't start actually looking at/narrowing down programs until May. And I didn't begin my actual application materials until late July/early August.

I'd say it's of course very possible to complete the materials in a timely manner if starting in August. However, I'd strongly encourage you to narrow down your site choices before then, and perhaps even come up with a brief half-page or one-page synopsis of your choices to help with cover letters. That way, a) you'll be prepared to hit the ground running should you apply, and b) even if you don't apply, much of the material will still be useful and applicable for the next cycle. Heck, you could probably even start working on your essays, given that they likely won't change much (if at all), either.

Basically, just set yourself up so that "all" you need to do is fill out the application and writer your cover letters. If that's the position you're in come August, you'll be fine.

This is sort of what I considered doing, but I wasn't sure if it would be a waste of time or how much overlap there would be with sites (especially due to the current economic issues!). Up until recently, I had every intention of applying this next cycle. Buuut, due to some medical issues and some dissertation logisitics, I'm starting to question the decision myself--and my dept may nix my application anyway before I even get started due to the dissertation logistics. So I wondered whether I should continue to proceed as planned "just in case" or play the wait and see game. I think part of it's also simply niggling doubts as the time approacheth! Avoid the whole issue and I don't have to worry about it. Ultimately, I think you're right though, and I can at least start to have some work/materials prepped on the chance that I go through with it and the dept doesn't axe me before the next step.

Thanks!

Exactly, particularly with the essays, I don't see much changing from year to year. There's obviously the risk that they'd completely retool everything during the next cycle, but I'd imagine they'd give some sort of heads up if that were the case.

Definitely don't let the prep interfere with the dissertation. But if you can fit some in, as you've said, it can't hurt to prep a bit just in case.

Originally Posted by paramour

This is sort of what I considered doing, but I wasn't sure if it would be a waste of time or how much overlap there would be with sites (especially due to the current economic issues!). Up until recently, I had every intention of applying this next cycle. Buuut, due to some medical issues and some dissertation logisitics, I'm starting to question the decision myself--and my dept may nix my application anyway before I even get started due to the dissertation logistics. So I wondered whether I should continue to proceed as planned "just in case" or play the wait and see game. I think part of it's also simply niggling doubts as the time approacheth! Avoid the whole issue and I don't have to worry about it. Ultimately, I think you're right though, and I can at least start to have some work/materials prepped on the chance that I go through with it and the dept doesn't axe me before the next step.

Thanks!

I think that prepping is a good idea just in case you decide to apply. It can't hurt so long as it doesn't too much time away from working on your dissertation.

In my opinion, I think researching the sites you are interested in and narrowing the list down to 15-18 sites is a good place to start. I would then look at what each site requires, in terms of supplemental materials, so as to gain a sense of what you will need to accomplish in addition to the general application in order to apply. That way, you can estimate when you would need to start completing everything (essays, cover letters, supplements) by deadlines.

Originally Posted by erg923

False. APA does not have this as a policy. Are you even vaguley familair with the program accrediation process? It doesn't sound like you are.

Under the APA guidelines for practicum requirements for obtaining licensure it is indicated that 1500 hours should be the minimum requirement so when included with the 2000 hours for internship, the doctoral degree licensure would meet the 3000 hours of supervised practicum and internship hours. If you only have two years of practicum you would need 750 hours per year. My program has us do 650 hours per year since we do two full years and have an advanced or third year so we may meet the 1500 practicum hours. In the past one of the reasons students were not Matched was due to limited practicum hours with supervision. This year all of the students matched except for two students so the extra practicum hours has paid dividends for our program and we had three who matched with APA accredited sites so this will provide additional support for our site and self study for APA accreditation.

Here is what is on the APA site:

3.
Hour Requirement
Practicum experiences anticipated to satisfy the first year of a two-year training sequence shall be a minimum of 1500 hours of supervised professional experience. At least 50% of the total hours of supervised experience accrued shall be in service-related activities, defined as treatment/intervention, assessment, interviews, report-writing, case presentations, and consultations. At least 25% of the supervised professional experience shall be devoted to face-to-face patient/client contact. Time spent in supervision shall count toward the 1500 hour requirement.
EXAMPLE: A student completing a 30 week practicum placement with 16 hours (2 days) of experience in each week would need to spend at least 8 hours in service-related activities per week as noted above and 4 hours of those 8 hours must involve face-to-face client contact.
Clarification:
The intent of this guideline is to ensure that the total supervised experience, including the practica and internship, shall comprise a minimum of 3000 hours. This 3000-hour requirement was chosen because it corresponds with the minimum requirement for supervised experience in many jurisdictions. Many students do not receive 1500 hours of supervised experience that will meet the requirements of these guidelines, during their practica. However, it is not necessary that students do so. Whatever portion of the 1500 hour requirement, in addition to internship, that a student does not receive pre-internship can be obtained on a post-internship basis, as described further below.
In the past students have counted a variety of activities as practicum experiences for purposes of application for internship (Rodolfa et al., 2007). Many of these activities are valuable educational or pre-practice experiences. However, some of the activities that have been counted in the past do not adequately meet supervised practice experience requirements for purposes of licensure. Therefore, these guidelines specify that at least 50% of the hours that can be counted must be service related activities to patients/clients and 25% of the counted hours must be in the provision of face-to-face psychological services. The example above provides hours for a common practicum experience. A graduate training program might well decide that additional educational experiences are necessary to enhance student competency. The spirit of these guidelines supports those academic decisions. However, it is recommended to the licensing jurisdictions that only the hours that meet the specifications described in these guidelines ultimately be counted toward licensure. Again, should a student have fewer than 1500 hours of supervised experience pre-internship, additional hours can be accrued after the internship.

Originally Posted by erg923

False. APA does not have this as a policy. Are you even vaguley familair with the program accrediation process? It doesn't sound like you are.

Since you frequently enjoy pointing out my spelling or writing concerns, I noticed three misspelled words in your comments. I guess we do have similar weaknesses with written language skills. Amazing, that we have much in common, uh? How about a Starbucks in Orlando at the APA conference this year...I'll even buy!!!

Originally Posted by 4410

Since you frequently enjoy pointing out my spelling or writing concerns, I noticed three misspelled words in your comments. I guess we do have similar weaknesses with written language skills. Amazing, that we have much in common, uh? How about a Starbucks in Orlando at the APA conference this year...I'll even buy!!!

I am no longer a member of APA.

I'm not going to address the other post because it simply proves my (and others) point, as it is in no way related to program accreditation, as you asserted before.

When they say a minimum of 1500 practicum hours, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean face-to-face, therapy, or is it literally just every hour you were at your practicum?

Originally Posted by cara susanna

When they say a minimum of 1500 practicum hours, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean face-to-face, therapy, or is it literally just every hour you were at your practicum?

How mileage is counted varies, but generally the understanding re practicum hours is that they include supervision (individual and group), didactic training and other forms of experiential learning AND a range of "direct service" activities, usually including at least 25% of face-to-face client contact (not necessarily 1:1 psychotherapy hours). Practica should include a range of clinical activities, I believe, and so we should definitely "count" hours that are beyond individual therapy hours and include administering tests, group psychotherapy and psychoeducational groups, outreach and intakes, observations/collateral interviews (all of which are face-to-face), test administration, interpretation, write up,, etc and all of these that are connected to serving one or more clients, in my view, are "direct service hours". Unfortunately, institutions and individuals have a lot of rules, ( often unenforceable rules in the ACT sense), that they apply to themselves and others, so it is hard to get consensus when folks start comparing their "count". When I look at AAPIs I don't pay much attention to the number listed, I look at the range of activities in the itemized lists, the number of clients seen and the range/concentration of these, and depend much more on the narrative sense of practicum experience than on any numbers, as how people count is too unreliable to be valid across cases.

Thanks! Where can you find that information? I'm looking on the APPIC and program website but no luck.

Also, do they count our department clinic hours as practicum hours?

Originally Posted by cara susanna

When they say a minimum of 1500 practicum hours, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean face-to-face, therapy, or is it literally just every hour you were at your practicum?

25% of the 1500 would be face-to-face hours or around 375 hours over two years of practicum rotations. I believe onsite clinic as some program have may be counted as practicum hours. Many clinical psychology programs have the first practicum at the campus onsite clinic and second and third years of practicum at off site clinics.

I had many more hours of face-to-face intervention and assessment hours and at one of my internship interviews some scrutiny about my hours was questioned and one of the interviewers even suggested that I was exploited to some degree at my second year practicum as I was working 30 hours per week at that site and I acquired over 1000 practicum hours that year. One reason that I had so many hours was due to my second year practicum having a active autism intervention program where I was doing ABA interventions with children on a daily basis. In the interview, I stressed the dynamics of this particular practicum rotation. You will find to some degree some cynicism from psychologists in the application and interview process and they may find fault or problems with your application for a variety of reasons. Impression management is important and some applicants based on everything in their application looks to be outstanding and above the rest of the applicants, but sometimes there is cynicism by the reviewers and they tend to find fault. Some of the extras that I did during my doctoral training and that I believed were strength areas were areas where some of the interviewers tended to minimize in my application with some focus on my prior degrees and licensure accomplished twenty or more years ago. I did not believe that such prior predoctoral training activities may have some influence on my current training and predoctoral internship application.

Originally Posted by 4410

I had many more hours of face-to-face intervention and assessment hours and at one of my internship interviews some scrutiny about my hours was questioned and one of the interviewers even suggested that I was exploited to some degree at my second year practicum as I was working 30 hours per week at that site and I acquired over 1000 practicum hours that year. One reason that I had so many hours was due to my second year practicum having a active autism intervention program where I was doing ABA interventions with children on a daily basis. In the interview, I stressed the dynamics of this particular practicum rotation. You will find to some degree some cynicism from psychologists in the application and interview process and they may find fault or problems with your application for a variety of reasons. Impression management is important and some applicants based on everything in their application looks to be outstanding and above the rest of the applicants, but sometimes there is cynicism by the reviewers and they tend to find fault. Some of the extras that I did during my doctoral training and that I believed were strength areas were areas where some of the interviewers tended to minimize in my application with some focus on my prior degrees and licensure accomplished twenty or more years ago. I did not believe that such prior predoctoral training activities may have some influence on my current training and predoctoral internship application.

So, you saw that more was not viewed as better, no?

So it sounds like supervision hours count as practicum hours, then?

Originally Posted by cara susanna

Thanks! Where can you find that information? I'm looking on the APPIC and program website but no luck.

Also, do they count our department clinic hours as practicum hours?

IIRC, all APPIC hours have to be "program approved." This usually means you have to get course credit for them, although I'm not sure if this would be required for department clinic hours as they would be directly through your department.

Do "practicum hours" include "support hours" (e.g., hours spent writing notes, intakes, and reports) or just assessment, intervention, and supervision?

Originally Posted by erg923

So, you saw that more was not viewed as better, no?

In retrospect... had I known that the extra work may not have had any influence, I most likely would have not done the extra work. However, one internship site valued my extra work and they selected me for the APPIC Match. I only had three interviews and the one site seemed concerned that I had worked as a school psychologists and an LPC most of my professional career and their attitude was that this is not a strength but a weakness in my application and indicated that there is substantial training differences between the MS and PhD/PsyD level of training despite I was completing a PsyD program. Why focus on my training almost thirty years ago and despite my 1000 hours of second year practicum hours and high quality recommendations from that site, why focus on the negative and state that I was exploited. I am lucky that site did not select me as cynicism and negativism by the one interviewer promoted a degree of arrogance that most would consider inappropriate for a psychologists.

We actually do get course credit for our department clinic work, so that would be okay. If supervision counts, I'll be a lot better off than if it's just face-to-face hours.

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

IIRC, all APPIC hours have to be "program approved." This usually means you have to get course credit for them, although I'm not sure if this would be required for department clinic hours as they would be directly through your department.

Actually it just means the program has to sanction the practicum and approve your hours, though how carefully that process is done varies widely by school and certain schools obviously do not do a great job of policing sites to make sure they are providing acceptable training. I actually think credits are more common for in-house clinics since the faculty are actually investing substantial time into supervision. We only register for credit for in-house practica, though pretty much every student also does (at least) one external practica. It seems very weird to me for a program to make students register for credit for external practica unless the practicum supervisors are getting paid by the university, or there is substantial university involvement in some other way.

Originally Posted by Ollie123

Actually it just means the program has to sanction the practicum and approve your hours, though how carefully that process is done varies widely by school and certain schools obviously do not do a great job of policing sites to make sure they are providing acceptable training. I actually think credits are more common for in-house clinics since the faculty are actually investing substantial time into supervision. We only register for credit for in-house practica, though pretty much every student also does (at least) one external practica. It seems very weird to me for a program to make students register for credit for external practica unless the practicum supervisors are getting paid by the university, or there is substantial university involvement in some other way.

That's interesting. In my program, we are required to register for credit for all practicum hours, especially if we intend to count them as APPIC hours. We do receive supervision from faculty for all practica, though, in addition to site-based supervision (at external practica)

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

That's interesting. In my program, we are required to register for credit for all practicum hours, especially if we intend to count them as APPIC hours. We do receive supervision from faculty for all practica, though, in addition to site-based supervision (at external practica)

That is how they did it at my program too. It makes it much "cleaner" if you want to count the hours as this would indicate the hours as "program sanctioned".

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

That's interesting. In my program, we are required to register for credit for all practicum hours, especially if we intend to count them as APPIC hours. We do receive supervision from faculty for all practica, though, in addition to site-based supervision (at external practica)

That makes sense if the faculty are also providing formal supervision of cases occurring at external sites, though from what I have seen that is not always the case. I'm actually a little curious how that works...if its an external site, do the clients have to sign a release to the faculty members? Are notes/reports actually taken off-site, or do the faculty come out to the site to supervise?

Ours only directly supervise in-house cases (although obviously many are connected and/or otherwise affiliated with the externships), aside from having to approve the external sites. They keep pretty tight control of where we can work though, and more than a few have gotten booted from the list (which is actually causing some problems in its own right) due to not providing anything remotely approximating EBP, inadequate supervision, or other problems. To my knowledge, its never caused any problems with APPIC, APA, licensing, or anything else.

Originally Posted by futureapppsy2

That's interesting. In my program, we are required to register for credit for all practicum hours, especially if we intend to count them as APPIC hours. We do receive supervision from faculty for all practica, though, in addition to site-based supervision (at external practica)

It is my understanding that you must be registered in practicum and also registered in internship for the hours to count towards your licensure application. Psychologists have been cited by licensing boards for supervising students without them being registered in a practicum course. It is different after you have completed the doctorate degree related to postdoctoral supervision hours, but at least here in Texas, it is required to be enrolled or registered in a course during practicum while receiving supervision. It may be different in other States or other States licensing boards.

Originally Posted by 4410

Psychologists have been cited by licensing boards.

What does that mean?

Originally Posted by erg923

What does that mean?

In Texas if you have a complaint made to the Texas Board of Examiners of Psychologists, there is a list on the website indicating what the complaint was and how the board dealt with the complaint. Although some infractions are minimal as in paying your renewal fees late, you still get your name cited on the website. I may be using the word wrong as it may mean a positive thing as cited or recognized for exemplary work, but it may also be a negative thing as well, such as short for citation.

I have a language based learning disability and I am much better now with spell check and grammar check, then I used to be. Unfortunately, this website has neither of these options. Do I need to run everything through my Microsoft Word before I publish on threads?