will not be getting a degree should I withdraw application from wait-list

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I interviewed at PCO and MCPHS and ICO. I was expecting to graduate by the end of April but now I will be some classes short. so when i applied my application says "degree expected before i start"
I was asked to retake the OAT (290AA, 300TS) by all three schools, which i will be doing in late may. But i don't think i have a chance at getting in any-more since i wont be getting my degree, even if i take summer classes.
my cumulative gpa is around 3.2.
I have over a 1000 volunteer hours with tons of different organizations and 100 hours of shadowing. i am in my fourth year.

so should i withdraw my application and apply again next year or should i still write my OAT and hope I will still get accepted with my low gpa considering the fact that i wont even have a degree.
Personally I don't think there is any hope for me at this point. since i dont think any of the schools will overlook the fact that I don't have a degree!
ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!

If they asked you to retake OAT, then study for it and do well on it. You do not need a degree as requirement for ico/pco. Mcphs says it is strongly recommended but not required. Apply for this year. Go against the odds. Maybe you might get on a standby list or conditional acceptance for next year or a summer enrichment program at pco.

12 month wait is not a big deal if you really want to do optometry. Btw, how was mcphs? How was the campus? The area? The staff at the school? Are there clinics up and running?

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You need to ask the school if your acceptance will be contingent upon you receiving your bachelor's degree.

The answer might be yes. Might be no.

Don't withdraw your application until you know 100%.

@OATAcer
personally i was not impressed by the mcphs campus, its not even close compared to PCO and ICO. maybe my expectations were to high. I did not like where it was located either. Worcester is such a small town and an hour away from boston, i cannot see myself living there. I took the greyhound there and found the area to be "creepy". I would only go there if both of the other schools rejected me. Everything was under construction when i went. to me it just did not have the same appeal as PCO and ICO did. the staff was nice but I liked the PCO staff better!

I find it odd that i didn't even get an acceptance from MCPHS cause my interviews went well and i felt so confident specially since someone i know got accepted 3 weeks before me with a 3.2 280AA, 290TS. so i thought i would at-least get in there.

Don't withdraw, but make sure the schools are aware that you won't have a degree. Worst that happens is you reapply next cycle.

Originally Posted by 0bumblebee0

@OATAcer
personally i was not impressed by the mcphs campus, its not even close compared to PCO and ICO. maybe my expectations were to high. I did not like where it was located either. Worcester is such a small town and an hour away from boston, i cannot see myself living there. I took the greyhound there and found the area to be "creepy". I would only go there if both of the other schools rejected me. Everything was under construction when i went. to me it just did not have the same appeal as PCO and ICO did. the staff was nice but I liked the PCO staff better!

I find it odd that i didn't even get an acceptance from MCPHS cause my interviews went well and i felt so confident specially since someone i know got accepted 3 weeks before me with a 3.2 280AA, 290TS. so i thought i would at-least get in there.

Honestly, it doesn't matter which school you go to. What matters is where you want to live for your schooling. I bet if you applied to western or rso or iaupr, they would accept you. Try those schools.

So mcphs sounds bad. Was Worcester ghetto? I am not sure what happened to you and your acceptance to mcphs. Did you have good extracurricular hours?

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I never liked that school either.

@OATAcer
I do! I have close to a 1000 volunteer hours with tons of different organizations/hospitals and 100 hours of shadowing. i wouldn't necessarily say it was located in a ghetto but it just a a very small town feel! Worcester only has 182,882 people! but at this point that school is my only option cause my first choice is too attend school somewhere in the east coast, most of my family is here.

Originally Posted by 0bumblebee0

@OATAcer
I do! I have close to a 1000 volunteer hours with tons of different organizations/hospitals and 100 hours of shadowing. i wouldn't necessarily say it was located in a ghetto but it just a a very small town feel! Worcester only has 182,882 people! but at this point that school is my only option cause my first choice is too attend school somewhere in the east coast, most of my family is here.

Go with what your heart says. Keep faith and pray.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

Honestly, it doesn't matter which school you go to. What matters is where you want to live for your schooling. I bet if you applied to western or rso or iaupr, they would accept you. Try those schools.

So mcphs sounds bad. Was Worcester ghetto? I am not sure what happened to you and your acceptance to mcphs. Did you have good extracurricular hours?

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It's funny when you all assume that which school you go to won't matter.
Is this necessarily true from the standpoint of an employer?
If you're planning to work at a corporate location, then yes, it won't matter.

But, good luck if you try to find jobs elsewhere. Try convincing a private practice optometrist that they should hire you if you got your rotations' experience from an unaccredited school.

Originally Posted by OpticalBlackOut

It's funny when you all assume that which school you go to won't matter.
Is this necessarily true from the standpoint of an employer?
If you're planning to work at a corporate location, then yes, it won't matter.

But, good luck if you try to find jobs elsewhere. Try convincing a private practice optometrist that they should hire you if you got your rotations' experience from an unaccredited school.

Right on the money Sure you get the same degree and getting a job in optometry is easy but its the type of job that you will get after graduation is what matters a lot. Of course like the above poster said that if you work corporate or you start your own practice right from school then it will not matter what school you went to as long as you passed all 3 parts of the board exam and the state license exam (if the state has one).

Older schools have established clinical rotations and connections. Medicine guards experience that can be gained by their graduates so they do not want opto students to rotate through internal medicine for example. These types of relationships can be relaxed with time.

Example: At my school 4th years can rotate through hospitals such as Bronx Lebanon and many VA hospitals. Contact lens residents work at New York Eye & Ear for 1 or 2 days in the week for example. Other rotations that are available are Bascom Palmer Eye Institute in Florida or even rotations in China.

Originally Posted by OpticalBlackOut

It's funny when you all assume that which school you go to won't matter.
Is this necessarily true from the standpoint of an employer?
If you're planning to work at a corporate location, then yes, it won't matter.

But, good luck if you try to find jobs elsewhere. Try convincing a private practice optometrist that they should hire you if you got your rotations' experience from an unaccredited school.

Accredited or not, they will all be accredited. It is all a degree. It is what and how you use it to make a living. It is like purchasing a vehicle. Nobody cares if you bought your car from dealership of Beverly hills or dealership of Los Angeles. You have the keys? You have the degree? Use it.

School does their part, you do yours. At the end of the day it is how good you are in your career. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger said, "I love the naysayers, because they keep pushing me to go against the odds."

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

Accredited or not, they will all be accredited. It is all a degree. It is what and how you use it to make a living. It is like purchasing a vehicle. Nobody cares if you bought your car from dealership of Beverly hills or dealership of Los Angeles. You have the keys? You have the degree? Use it.

School does their part, you do yours. At the end of the day it is how good you are in your career. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger said, "I love the naysayers, because they keep pushing me to go against the odds."

Haha I like the quote but the dealership analogy is not so good. Its more of a brand of car. You can get a Honda and it has 4 wheels and it drives. Or you can get an Audi that will smoke the Honda while at the same time being more luxurious and comfortable.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Haha I like the quote but the dealership analogy is not so good. Its more of a brand of car. You can get a Honda and it has 4 wheels and it drives. Or you can get an Audi that will smoke the Honda while at the same time being more luxurious and comfortable.

Lame.

Then they should make the labels as "John Doe, O.D., SUNY" vs. "John Doe, O.D., MCPHS"

A degree is a degree. If your slick, good looking and smart-business wise, you will be the best optometrist in the world, work for celebrities and have your name as a legend.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

Lame.

Then they should make the labels as "John Doe, O.D., SUNY" vs. "John Doe, O.D., MCPHS"

A degree is a degree. If your slick, good looking and smart-business wise, you will be the best optometrist in the world, work for celebrities and have your name as a legend.

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You do that

Shnurek, your post reeks of elitism!

You go to a good school - we get it! Stop with the subtle brags; the feigned humbleness.

If someone comes across as arrogant online, it doesn't always mean they're like that in person. Interwebz isn't serious business. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by 0bumblebee0

I interviewed at PCO and MCPHS and ICO. I was expecting to graduate by the end of April but now I will be some classes short. so when i applied my application says "degree expected before i start"
I was asked to retake the OAT (290AA, 300TS) by all three schools, which i will be doing in late may. But i don't think i have a chance at getting in any-more since i wont be getting my degree, even if i take summer classes.
my cumulative gpa is around 3.2.
I have over a 1000 volunteer hours with tons of different organizations and 100 hours of shadowing. i am in my fourth year.

so should i withdraw my application and apply again next year or should i still write my OAT and hope I will still get accepted with my low gpa considering the fact that i wont even have a degree.
Personally I don't think there is any hope for me at this point. since i dont think any of the schools will overlook the fact that I don't have a degree!
ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!

have you given any thought to Puerto Rico? they may still be accepting applications, and they may still consider you without your bachelors degree. Ask them about your OAT too...youre pretty much on the cutoff....but hey, you could get lucky eh?!? you'll never know until you ask. it could save you a year of waiting if they do accept you and the other schools do not

Originally Posted by Chip Chipperson

Shnurek, your post reeks of elitism!

You go to a good school - we get it! Stop with the subtle brags; the feigned humbleness.

If someone comes across as arrogant online, it doesn't always mean they're like that in person. Interwebz isn't serious business. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

All I'm trying to say is that it is better to go to a better school. It is better to be an MD as well (non-carribean). I am nowhere near the top of the food chain.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

All I'm trying to say is that it is better to go to a better school. It is better to be an MD as well (non-carribean). I am nowhere near the top of the food chain.

All your trying to say is your opinion. Nobody cares what school you go to in any career. Obama did Harvard. Bush with a low 2.0 GPA from I have know idea school. Did people care? No. But they both have supporters.

At the end, it is all about who you are and how well you use your brain. Your simply trying to boost your ego from whatever school you are from.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

All your trying to say is your opinion. Nobody cares what school you go to in any career. Obama did Harvard. Bush with a low 2.0 GPA from I have know idea school. Did people care? No. But they both have supporters.

At the end, it is all about who you are and how well you use your brain. Your simply trying to boost your ego from whatever school you are from.

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Shnurek is making some valid points though, and I don't think trying to push SUNY as the one and only school someone should go to. Many of you are right that an OD degree is an OD degree. But your experience will vary at different schools.

Someone this last weekend told me something that made a lot of sense - people graduating from the new schools or established ones with worse clinical programs will be on a level playing field with those graduating from strong programs within the next 10 years. There is just a steeper learning curve for someone graduating from a new school or one with a worse clinical program right after graduation. That means in their first years out practicing, they will have a lot more times where they scratch their head about something they encounter in the clinic. They will end up doing a lot more on-the-job learning than someone from a strong program will do right out of school. They may not have had the same number of patient encounters or the breadth of patient encounters someone at an established and good clinical program have had. The reason I include the new schools, even though some are in great locations to get a broad patient base, is they still need time to build the patient base in terms of numbers coming through their doors. I do think some established schools struggle just the same, or they are on campuses where most of their patients are healthy 20-somethings who just need a new contact lens Rx. I would categorize those schools as worse clinical programs than average.

It sounds like the new schools are doing a great job at building their clinics. But another piece does revolve around the schools' connections, which take time to foster. They have done a good job creating externship sites. But established schools have the advantage of years and years with externship sites that allow them to keep good records about what the experience was like for past students, student feedback on it, etc. They also have more of them and are more likely to have something in the form of housing arrangements available at more of their sites than the new schools would have (just because of the time it takes to coordinate that properly).

Plus, another point I think Shnurek was trying to make was that current private practices that are looking to hire OD's to work in the practice ARE more likely to consider the school you graduated from. They might want to hire someone from a school with a solid track record or from the school they graduated from. They are also more likely to contact their own school in order to advertise an opening. They are also more likely to feel a little perturbed with grads from the new schools, since most OD's see them as furthering the problem of oversaturation (although obviously not the students' fault, but rather that of the new schools)

I think all the new schools will eventually share those advantages, but they aren't present now. It's not the schools' fault - those things take a lot of years to build up and need many graduating classes that have had time to establish their own practices.

Originally Posted by optoapp2012

Shnurek is making some valid points though, and I don't think trying to push SUNY as the one and only school someone should go to. Many of you are right that an OD degree is an OD degree. But your experience will vary at different schools.

Someone this last weekend told me something that made a lot of sense - people graduating from the new schools or established ones with worse clinical programs will be on a level playing field with those graduating from strong programs within the next 10 years. There is just a steeper learning curve for someone graduating from a new school or one with a worse clinical program right after graduation. That means in their first years out practicing, they will have a lot more times where they scratch their head about something they encounter in the clinic. They will end up doing a lot more on-the-job learning than someone from a strong program will do right out of school. They may not have had the same number of patient encounters or the breadth of patient encounters someone at an established and good clinical program have had. The reason I include the new schools, even though some are in great locations to get a broad patient base, is they still need time to build the patient base in terms of numbers coming through their doors. I do think some established schools struggle just the same, or they are on campuses where most of their patients are healthy 20-somethings who just need a new contact lens Rx. I would categorize those schools as worse clinical programs than average.

It sounds like the new schools are doing a great job at building their clinics. But another piece does revolve around the schools' connections, which take time to foster. They have done a good job creating externship sites. But established schools have the advantage of years and years with externship sites that allow them to keep good records about what the experience was like for past students, student feedback on it, etc. They also have more of them and are more likely to have something in the form of housing arrangements available at more of their sites than the new schools would have (just because of the time it takes to coordinate that properly).

Plus, another point I think Shnurek was trying to make was that current private practices that are looking to hire OD's to work in the practice ARE more likely to consider the school you graduated from. They might want to hire someone from a school with a solid track record or from the school they graduated from. They are also more likely to contact their own school in order to advertise an opening. They are also more likely to feel a little perturbed with grads from the new schools, since most OD's see them as furthering the problem of oversaturation (although obviously not the students' fault, but rather that of the new schools)

I think all the new schools will eventually share those advantages, but they aren't present now. It's not the schools' fault - those things take a lot of years to build up and need many graduating classes that have had time to establish their own practices.

(This is much more well worded than Shnurek rant, thank you lol.)

I wanted to add that I think you are right about students from new schools not getting the good reputation push as someone from an accredited school, the patient experience will probably be the same. I don't know about other schools, but Western University of Health Sciences has students spend 3-4 hours each week traveling to intern for different doctors starting in the FIRST year. So with the diverse patient base in their campus clinic, with the additional doctor visits each week, I feel they will have the same amount of experience.

Also I don't think having a "log" of housing sites and things they did in the externships is that big of a deal. It might not even be useful for housing to see where someone else lived. I'm sure if students are intelligent enough, they can start their own methods in the externship. Also Western has PA/DO/Physical Therapy students already around the US in hospitals so they are using those established connections to easily get OD students to externship there. (if you don't believe this ask SCCO why they are starting a PA school on campus-for the connections in hospitals)

TL;DR- new schools don't give students the reputation push on their resumes, but the education/patient experience is the same, if not better.