Where are all of the doctoral-level clinicians??

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I have nothing against masters-level clinicians and I respect their presence in the field of clinical work in mental health. However, I find it odd that when I search the net (e.g., psychologytoday.com among other websites) and other sources for therapists, I see an overwhelming majority of masters-level clinicans and I am just curious - is this indicative of the direction that the field is going? (For example, masters-level clinicans primarily practice therapy while doctoral-level clinicians do assessment/testing, and perhaps see clients with more severe cases of psychopathology that may be out of the scope of some masters-level clinicians.)

I am not saying that PhD/PsyD clinicians who practice therapy are no more qualified than masters-level therapists nor that they are no longer needed. On the contrary, I noticed the imbalance because I am interested in participating in short-term therapy for stress (among other things) and I personally feel more comfortable with a doctoral-level clinician but found it rather difficult to find many in my area.

Of course it is possible that my experience is simply an isolated one, but nevertheless I am still curious if anyone has had a similar experience and further, I would like to know the opinions of clinicians (both masters-level and doctoral-level) on this particular topic.

Disclaimer: I really am not intending for this thread to be one that belittles the existence of masters-level clinicians and I apologize if that seems to be the case.

While there has been an increase in the number of new doctorally-trained clinicians each year, there has been an even larger increase in mid-level providers (MHC, MFT, MSW, etc) because there are more degrees and more students graduating. Some doctorally-trained clinicians are shifting out of the traditional therapy market and/or work elsewhere (teaching, researching, consulting, etc). In most major cities you can't swing a cat without hitting a psychologist, but it can be a bit more sparse in other parts of the country.

Originally Posted by Therapist4Chnge

While there has been an increase in the number of new doctorally-trained clinicians each year, there has been an even larger increase in mid-level providers (MHC, MFT, MSW, etc) because there are more degrees and more students graduating. Some doctorally-trained clinicians are shifting out of the traditional therapy market and/or work elsewhere (teaching, researching, consulting, etc). In most major cities you can't swing a cat without hitting a psychologist, but it can be a bit more sparse in other parts of the country.

This is a new expression to me

Any reason it's a cat?

Because the cat has a degree from Capella (I think that's Jon Snow's joke?)

Originally Posted by Pragma

This is a new expression to me

Any reason it's a cat?

Long tails?

It seems like most doctoral clinicians end up in rehab, neuro, peds, forensic, or med/health psych, with some in university counseling centers. There are still psychologists in private practice, CMHCs, etc., but these seem to rapidly be dominated by masters-level therapists. I can see UCCs going this route, too, tbh. My prediction is that psychologists who are primarily clinicians will move more and more towards boarding in speciality fields (rehab, neuro, forensic, med/health, and peds) and doing very, very little therapy, if any. Sadly, I think therapy is/will be no longer seen as a doctoral level domain. I worry this discounts the amount of knowledge and skill needed to do high quality EB therapy. (not saying LPCs and LCSW's can't be great therapists, but I think a lot of training and supervision is often needed post-Masters b/c of the shorter, less intensive programs). However, that seems to be the way things have worked out with regards to masters-level clinicians.

For some strange reason, viewing the title of this thread prompted me getting that obnoxious song in my head where they repeat "Where have all the cowboys gone"

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Pragma

For some strange reason, viewing the title of this thread prompted me getting that obnoxious song in my head where they repeat "Where have all the cowboys gone"

Thank you.

Ill help. Name this tune. No Googling..

"Where have all the people gone, my honey?
Where have all the people gone today?
There's no need for you to be worrying about all those people
You never see those people anyway"

Originally Posted by erg923

Ill help. Name this tune. No Googling..

"Where have all the people gone, my honey?
Where have all the people gone today?
There's no need for you to be worrying about all those people
You never see those people anyway"

I have no idea

Originally Posted by erg923

Ill help. Name this tune. No Googling..

"Where have all the people gone, my honey?
Where have all the people gone today?
There's no need for you to be worrying about all those people
You never see those people anyway"

Guess it doesn't really matter anyway.

No idea on that one, either, erg; over my head.

What's worse is when, like me, you have a song from the radio stuck in your head, but you don't really know the song at all, so a five-second snippet of the chorus just keeps repeating over...and over...and over...and over...

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

No idea on that one, either, erg; over my head.

What's worse is when, like me, you have a song from the radio stuck in your head, but you don't really know the song at all, so a five-second snippet of the chorus just keeps repeating over...and over...and over...and over...

Thats interesting from a psych perspsctive because this happened to me particularly bad last year. I cant for the life of me remember what the song was now, (and I dont really want to for fear of what might happen) but it was constant (i mean, literaly, throughout the day everyday...although it never kept me sleeping) for 3-4 weeks. It was really unusual. It was just one little part of the song too. And it was something super lame too, like John Tesh or Micheal Bolton or maybe Stevie Wonder during his sucky 80's period...or somethin like that.

Originally Posted by erg923

Thats interesting from a psych perspsctive because this happened to me particularly bad last year. I cant for the life of me remember what the song was now, (and I dont really want to for fear of what might happen) but it was constant (i mean, literaly, throughout the day everyday...although it never kept me sleeping) for 3-4 weeks. It was really unusual. It was just one little part of the song too. And it was something super lame too, like John Tesh or Micheal Bolton or maybe Stevie Wonder during his sucky 80's period...or somethin like that.

Oh man, you have no idea how hard I'm now trying not to start thinking of any Michael Bolton songs I know; I fear for my sanity for the rest of the day.

Re: the phenomenon, it'd definitely be interesting to see if there's actually any research in this area. I wonder if it tends to happen more frequently when someone is stressed, and/or (as I'd suspect) during particularly mindless tasks in much the same way that ruminative and intrusive cognitions seem to.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Oh man, you have no idea how hard I'm now trying not to start thinking of any Michael Bolton songs I know; I fear for my sanity for the rest of the day.

Re: the phenomenon, it'd definitely be interesting to see if there's actually any research in this area. I wonder if it tends to happen more frequently when someone is stressed, and/or (as I'd suspect) during particularly mindless tasks in much the same way that ruminative and intrusive cognitions seem to.

Michael Bolton became a lot cooler in my book when he did this:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/239640/sat...t-jack-sparrow

Originally Posted by Pragma

Michael Bolton became a lot cooler in my book when he did this:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/239640/sat...t-jack-sparrow

Haha that's the only song I was letting myself think about.

To avoid completely hijacking the thread, though, my guess is that doctoral-level clinicians, as previously mentioned, more often work in non-private practice settings than master's-level clinicans (perhaps based on sheer numbers alone). And the private practice psychologists I know receive many of their referrals by word of mouth, relationships with other practitioners (psychologists, physicians, etc.), and the like.

Then again, there's always the option that psychologists aren't, as a group, very good at marketing ourselves, either. I've heard a few different PP psychologists mention how they just can't understand why more practitioners don't advertise/market their practices.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Re: the phenomenon, it'd definitely be interesting to see if there's actually any research in this area. I wonder if it tends to happen more frequently when someone is stressed, and/or (as I'd suspect) during particularly mindless tasks in much the same way that ruminative and intrusive cognitions seem to.

Oh Sherry, our love
Holds on, holds on...
Oh Sherry, our love
Hold on, holds on...

Try not singing THAT the rest of the weekend...

Originally Posted by Pragma

Michael Bolton became a lot cooler in my book when he did this:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/239640/sat...t-jack-sparrow

I agree- that made Michael Bolton so much more awesome!

Speaking of horrible songs that get stuck in your head, anyone ever see this one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaoLU6zKaws

Originally Posted by erg923

Ill help. Name this tune. No Googling..

"Where have all the people gone, my honey?
Where have all the people gone today?
There's no need for you to be worrying about all those people
You never see those people anyway"

Furthur...
I mean Rat Dog...
I mean Phil and Friends...

(J/K...)

I don't know, it must have been the roses...

I was at this one recently (though I hit almost every show in the tri-state area when they are in town--including most of the Beacon run):



One of the shows I was at during the period when I toured intermittently in the late 80s and 90s that I consider a favorite:



I can only keep track of the shows I went to in the 80s and 90s by the occasional special appearances or odd opening acts (CSN and Edie Brickell?!)... lol...

To go back on topic. I have no idea where the doctoral level clinicians have gone... ;x

The VA servers block youtube, but I have a few favs I can post too, later. And, as I'm sure you know, my "name that tune" was the Grateful Dead's "Morning Dew."

I traded a few sentences with Mr. Weir after a Ratdog show in 1998. Always shocks people because I look more like Don Draper than Wavy Gravy and, I have a fevernt dislike of "hippie stuff." Lovin Bob's weird beard these days though...

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Haha that's the only song I was letting myself think about.

To avoid completely hijacking the thread, though, my guess is that doctoral-level clinicians, as previously mentioned, more often work in non-private practice settings than master's-level clinicans (perhaps based on sheer numbers alone). And the private practice psychologists I know receive many of their referrals by word of mouth, relationships with other practitioners (psychologists, physicians, etc.), and the like.

Then again, there's always the option that psychologists aren't, as a group, very good at marketing ourselves, either. I've heard a few different PP psychologists mention how they just can't understand why more practitioners don't advertise/market their practices.

They often:
1. Don't know how and don't want to spend the time to figure it out.
2. Aren't sure if it is ethical (it is, with a few exceptions)
3. Are too cheap (and are unwilling to spend money to make money)
4. Spend money in the wrong places (yellow pages)
5. Don't need it.