Pulmonary/Critical Care 2012-2013 Application Cycle

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

Hi, maybe slightly early - but just wanted to start this year's thread on pulm-cc applications, since the timeline is approaching.
Will need to start working on my PS soon .... not something I'm looking forward to at all !

Hope we can start sharing tips and reviews for this year !

As Pukhthun said during the start of the 2010-2011 cycle - "Let the maniacal drama that is fellowship application begin!"

Don't do it!

I couldn't help laughing !!

But seriously, is there something particular that makes you warn us away from pulm/cc??
Lifestyle, work habits, jobs, money, etc etc ??

(I'm assuming, of course, you didn't mean don't "start this thread" or don't "start your PS").

I've been through every post last cycle and some before that, and feel better informed and ready to get started !!

Only thing making me a bit nervous is being out of residency for a few years (was in IM practice) - not sure if that will be considered a pro or a con ?

Originally Posted by waltz

I couldn't help laughing !!

But seriously, is there something particular that makes you warn us away from pulm/cc??
Lifestyle, work habits, jobs, money, etc etc ??

(I'm assuming, of course, you didn't mean don't "start this thread" or don't "start your PS").

I've been through every post last cycle and some before that, and feel better informed and ready to get started !!

Only thing making me a bit nervous is being out of residency for a few years (was in IM practice) - not sure if that will be considered a pro or a con ?

I was being facetious.

I think pulm/cc is a great field, as long as you don't mind being part of a specialty that can never have a weekend or holiday off - which doesn't mean you can't have weekends and holidays off, but the specialty need to always be available - kind of like emergency medicine. So you'll spend the rest of your life on a pager at least once a week probably - though some practices are set up a little different with a one guy taking all the call for a time (3-7 days) - but most practices share night call. It's a cool way to make a living in many ways and they will pay you well for it. Though it does lose its excitement factor after a time.

Pulmonary is cool. I like it a lot. It's much harder than critical care, and in some ways can be annoying because many primary care providers (and cardiologists) don't think about pulmonary complaints at all - just refer. But I guess it'll all end up being money in your pocket someday either way. I like pulmonary better myself.

I encourage people who are interested to apply, but know what you're getting into. I'll be following the thread, and helping as I can. People can feel free to PM me too.

Hello,

I am hoping to apply for PCCM and/or CCM fellowships this year for 2013. Have been doing hospitalist job for 4 years. Which are the IMG friendly places to apply? any idea?

Originally Posted by wannabePCCMdoc

Hello,

I am hoping to apply for PCCM and/or CCM fellowships this year for 2013. Have been doing hospitalist job for 4 years. Which are the IMG friendly places to apply? any idea?

PCCM isn't exactly super competitive. There are lots of FMG/IMG/DOs in PCCM

Originally Posted by waltz

I couldn't help laughing !!

But seriously, is there something particular that makes you warn us away from pulm/cc??
Lifestyle, work habits, jobs, money, etc etc ??

(I'm assuming, of course, you didn't mean don't "start this thread" or don't "start your PS").

I've been through every post last cycle and some before that, and feel better informed and ready to get started !!

Only thing making me a bit nervous is being out of residency for a few years (was in IM practice) - not sure if that will be considered a pro or a con ?

Pulm/CC is AWESOME! I love it! I am so glad that I chose this specialty and am very surprised at how much I have come to appreciate the complexity of pulmonology. The longer I study the more I realize that I didn't know S*%@ about pulmonary as a resident.

CC becomes easy/second nature after a few months solid in the MICU but Pulm takes some effort. This is just my experience so take it for what its worth.

Good luck in the application process and don;t hesitate to PM me with any questions or for advice.

Hi guys. Sorry for invading this thread
I am starting intern year in June. I received my schedule and I am starting with Pulmonary. At my program Pulmonary is basically a rotation for 2nd year residents and I will be the only intern doing this rotation throughout the academic year.

What are the basics that I need to know before I show up at the rotation and i have read on this board that ...the important thing about intern year is to have a PLAN for everything. In terms of organizational skills... how shd I go about it.

thanks

Originally Posted by ROBINHO

Hi guys. Sorry for invading this thread
I am starting intern year in June. I received my schedule and I am starting with Pulmonary. At my program Pulmonary is basically a rotation for 2nd year residents and I will be the only intern doing this rotation throughout the academic year.

What are the basics that I need to know before I show up at the rotation and i have read on this board that ...the important thing about intern year is to have a PLAN for everything. In terms of organizational skills... how shd I go about it.

thanks

Take a thorough history and physical exam. Thats about it.

We do not expect you to spout off a long differential based on a CXR/CT. I mean give it a shot but that is why you are on the rotation...to learn!! In regards to organizing yourself it will totally depend on the structure of the rotation. You should have a fellow/attending on service that will kind of give you the lay of the land and assign patients to you etc. Remember as an intern your number one concern is to have all the data and an idea of appropriate tests to order or possible treatments based off of a basic differential. We don't expect you to know everything about pulm off the top of your head so don't sweat it too much. Just be on time, work hard, be honest and pay attention, the rest will come to you.

Also be sure you have PFT data on anyone that has had one, previous chest imaging, 6 minute walk test info (if available), and take a very detailed social history including exposures, allergies, pets, travel, obviously smoking, air conditioner units, humidifiers, mold, etc. This is often paramount in diagnosing lung disease.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by VJWDO

Take a thorough history and physical exam. Thats about it.

We do not expect you to spout off a long differential based on a CXR/CT. I mean give it a shot but that is why you are on the rotation...to learn!! In regards to organizing yourself it will totally depend on the structure of the rotation. You should have a fellow/attending on service that will kind of give you the lay of the land and assign patients to you etc. Remember as an intern your number one concern is to have all the data and an idea of appropriate tests to order or possible treatments based off of a basic differential. We don't expect you to know everything about pulm off the top of your head so don't sweat it too much. Just be on time, work hard, be honest and pay attention, the rest will come to you.

Also be sure you have PFT data on anyone that has had one, previous chest imaging, 6 minute walk test info (if available), and take a very detailed social history including exposures, allergies, pets, travel, obviously smoking, air conditioner units, humidifiers, mold, etc. This is often paramount in diagnosing lung disease.

Good luck!

Thanks so much.

Originally Posted by VJWDO

Pulm/CC is AWESOME! I love it! I am so glad that I chose this specialty and am very surprised at how much I have come to appreciate the complexity of pulmonology. The longer I study the more I realize that I didn't know S*%@ about pulmonary as a resident.

CC becomes easy/second nature after a few months solid in the MICU but Pulm takes some effort. This is just my experience so take it for what its worth.

Good luck in the application process and don;t hesitate to PM me with any questions or for advice.

thank you so much and jdh71 too ! I am excited by the thought of specializing in PCC - hope this process goes smoothly.

Do any of you have an idea if a PD's letter is still required if you are out of residency for >4 years - would current boss/chairman's letter be a good substitute (if period of employment longer than period of residency?)

Originally Posted by waltz

Do any of you have an idea if a PD's letter is still required if you are out of residency for >4 years - would current boss/chairman's letter be a good substitute (if period of employment longer than period of residency?)

Some programs may still want some sort of form letter from your residency program that you were not a tool while you were there.

Though, I'm not sure I'd care so much. I'd email programs you are interested in and ask if they still want a residency PD letter.

Considering that I am an IMG, and to improve my chances in Match, Is it better to apply in PCCM 3 years program and CC 2 years program? If yes, then is it wise to apply for both at one place?

Originally Posted by wannabePCCMdoc

Considering that I am an IMG, and to improve my chances in Match, Is it better to apply in PCCM 3 years program and CC 2 years program? If yes, then is it wise to apply for both at one place?

Do not do that. Do not apply to two programs at the same institution. Apply to one or the other if they are at the same institution.

Old SDN user...now back . Besides Cornell and Columbia, does anyone know if there are any other programs in Pulmonary and Critical Care in NYC that offer > 12 months of protected time for research?

Originally Posted by ResidentMD

Old SDN user...now back . Besides Cornell and Columbia, does anyone know if there are any other programs in Pulmonary and Critical Care in NYC that offer > 12 months of protected time for research?

Doubt it. Money is drying up for protected time. Look for places with training grants already in place.

Originally Posted by ResidentMD

Old SDN user...now back . Besides Cornell and Columbia, does anyone know if there are any other programs in Pulmonary and Critical Care in NYC that offer > 12 months of protected time for research?

I am not aware of any NYC based PCCM fellowship that consistently provides trainees with more than 12 months of protected time for research. Can you elaborate on which type of research you are interested in doing? I think you will more commonly find programs that will put you in a lab for more than a year, but it is more difficult to find a program that has a track record for training in epidemiology or health policy.

Some academic programs have NIH institutional grants where many fellows get both protected time for research AND a Master's degree. With a good research mentor and this amount of protected time / training - you can crank out quite a few publications and not have to worry about writing individual grants to pay for protected time or classes. Anything short of this will make it way more difficult to transition from a fellow to faculty with any hopes of a career development (K) award. I'm at Penn. The majority of us are on institutional grants. It's a 3 1/2 year fellowship (18 clinical, 24 research) and the majority of us are working on various research projects while concurrently pursuing degrees in either clinical epidemiology or health policy research. For those of us in degree programs, we do 12 months straight of clinical, 24 months straight of research/coursework, and then do 6 more months of clinical. We have a hand full in labs as well. They do 18 months straight clinical followed by 24 months research.

I am under the impression (from colleagues who trained in NYC as residents) that no NYC programs offer something like I described above. If you provide a better sense of what type of training you are looking for, I might be able to give you some sort of idea.

I am currently applying for a Pulmonary critical care fellowship position in the upcoming July Cycle of the match.

A little background: I am a 2011 IM graduate, ABIM certified and an US citizen. Already have all my LOR and most documents (just need picture). Not sure if USMLE scores matter but I did pass all on first attempt but no spectacular scores (middle of the road). I am currently working as a nocturnist.

My main question is what is the appropriate or suggested number of fellowship programs to apply to, from reviewing the nrmp data it seems that most applicants do find a position but they don't give details such as number of programs applied to.

Originally Posted by pagandoc

I am currently applying for a Pulmonary critical care fellowship position in the upcoming July Cycle of the match.

A little background: I am a 2011 IM graduate, ABIM certified and an US citizen. Already have all my LOR and most documents (just need picture). Not sure if USMLE scores matter but I did pass all on first attempt but no spectacular scores (middle of the road). I am currently working as a nocturnist.

My main question is what is the appropriate or suggested number of fellowship programs to apply to, from reviewing the nrmp data it seems that most applicants do find a position but they don't give details such as number of programs applied to.

apply to all of them!
it will increase your chances, and working as a nocturnist, im sure you can afford it. maybe do a little homework on the most competitive ones to find out their requirements and decide.
Good luck

Originally Posted by pagandoc

I am currently applying for a Pulmonary critical care fellowship position in the upcoming July Cycle of the match.

A little background: I am a 2011 IM graduate, ABIM certified and an US citizen. Already have all my LOR and most documents (just need picture). Not sure if USMLE scores matter but I did pass all on first attempt but no spectacular scores (middle of the road). I am currently working as a nocturnist.

My main question is what is the appropriate or suggested number of fellowship programs to apply to, from reviewing the nrmp data it seems that most applicants do find a position but they don't give details such as number of programs applied to.

Do not apply to them all.

Just like residency pick 20-30. If you're not coming from a research background or a top 10 residency, you can apply to, but don't expect much response back from research heavy programs, don't count them in the 20 or 30 realistic programs you're going to send your application too.

Has anyone started applying yet?

Originally Posted by pagandoc

I am currently applying for a Pulmonary critical care fellowship position in the upcoming July Cycle of the match.

A little background: I am a 2011 IM graduate, ABIM certified and an US citizen. Already have all my LOR and most documents (just need picture). Not sure if USMLE scores matter but I did pass all on first attempt but no spectacular scores (middle of the road). I am currently working as a nocturnist.

My main question is what is the appropriate or suggested number of fellowship programs to apply to, from reviewing the nrmp data it seems that most applicants do find a position but they don't give details such as number of programs applied to.

Agree. Do not apply to them all. It is a total waste of money. Decide where you want to live (or could live) first. That is a good way to weed through all the programs. Then look on the Freida website (program websites) to evaluate the remaining programs. Apply to the programs that will best prepare you for your future practice goals. Then choose a couple reachers and the rest solid possibles.

I totally overapplied. I applied to 30 programs and got almost 20 interviews. I could only afford to go to 8 interviews and matched at my number 1. I do not have a super research background but was chief res and yada yada yada.

Just my 2 cents.

right now I have applied to 26 programs with a mix of community and research programs, I would actually prefer a research program as I want to stay in academics in the long run but to be honest would be willing to go to any program in Florida, Manhattan or Chicago. Any one know about the tufts program as it seems they have a pretty solid program that exposes you to sleep medicine as you train which might be a possible sub after pulmonary for me.

hi i am one of the IMGs (permanent resident) applying for PCCM fellowship this year. I was wondering if somebody would suggest some of the IMG friendly programs.

Also, are Georgetown university and George Washington universities in DC very competitive. Do they take in IMGS? They dont have any information in their website.

Originally Posted by pagandoc

right now I have applied to 26 programs with a mix of community and research programs, I would actually prefer a research program as I want to stay in academics in the long run but to be honest would be willing to go to any program in Florida, Manhattan or Chicago. Any one know about the tufts program as it seems they have a pretty solid program that exposes you to sleep medicine as you train which might be a possible sub after pulmonary for me.

gossip on Tufts is that it is a nice program

though I didn't interview there

Originally Posted by noobiedoc

hi i am one of the IMGs (permanent resident) applying for PCCM fellowship this year. I was wondering if somebody would suggest some of the IMG friendly programs.

Also, are Georgetown university and George Washington universities in DC very competitive. Do they take in IMGS? They dont have any information in their website.

Almost all PCCM programs are IMG friendly. That fact that you don't have to deal with a visa will be the most helpful.

Neither Georgetown and GW are very competitive.

Just applied!

Anyone have any idea about how the shortened cycle will influence when interview invites come out?

Originally Posted by intmed3

Just applied!

Anyone have any idea about how the shortened cycle will influence when interview invites come out?

zero clue

this is the first time, right?

Applied finally.......Although i have uploaded every thing, scanned my self, it still shows in ADTS that its not yet received...may be give them 24 hours or something? anybody has any clue?

Yes. Give it some time. Call tomorrow if nothing updated posts to your ERAS today.

Hello. First time poster here. Wondering if anyone could give thoughts on which programs are the best throughout the nation with a good mix of clinical skills and research? I know this is always up for debate, but just wanted to get an idea of what programs were highly regarded.

Thanks in advance!

First email after applying to pccm ...that too is rejection email.


Subject
From 07/17/2012 03:45 PM MUSC Pulmonary/Critical Care Fellowship gracme@musc.edu
Message The Fellowship Committee of the Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine Training Program at the Medical University of South Carolina has met to consider your application. We regret that we cannot extend an invitation to you for an interview.
This year we received an exceptionally large number of applications from particularly well qualified candidates. We are sure that you can understand how difficult this makes the selection process. Unfortunately, we are unable to interview each applicant.
Thank you for your interest in our program.
Sincerely,
Steven A. Sahn, M.D.
Professor of Medicine
Director,
Division of Pulmonary/

Originally Posted by PCCCM123

First email after applying to pccm ...that too is rejection email.


Subject
From 07/17/2012 03:45 PM MUSC Pulmonary/Critical Care Fellowship gracme@musc.edu
Message The Fellowship Committee of the Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine Training Program at the Medical University of South Carolina has met to consider your application. We regret that we cannot extend an invitation to you for an interview.
This year we received an exceptionally large number of applications from particularly well qualified candidates. We are sure that you can understand how difficult this makes the selection process. Unfortunately, we are unable to interview each applicant.
Thank you for your interest in our program.
Sincerely,
Steven A. Sahn, M.D.
Professor of Medicine
Director,
Division of Pulmonary/

I seem to remember from last years thread that MUSC handed out a bunch of early rejections. Looks like the same thing this year.

Originally Posted by delsolryda

Hello. First time poster here. Wondering if anyone could give thoughts on which programs are the best throughout the nation with a good mix of clinical skills and research? I know this is always up for debate, but just wanted to get an idea of what programs were highly regarded.

Thanks in advance!

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here.

Ok this is my first post to this forum. I'm looking forward to the fellowship application process. I am currently applying to about 40 programs. I would have chosen more but my wife is pregnant, and I will not move my family to certain parts of the country.

I'm in my third year of residency at a great community hospital that is a primary teaching hospital for the local allopathic medical school. My three board scores are in the mid to high 90's. I have one recent publication (case report and discussion) in a pulm/crit journal as the first author and a publication in a major peer reviewed journal as an undergraduate. Also I am the principal investigator of an ongoing research project. I feel I have a great application except for one black mark - I went to medical school overseas. I'm not ashamed of this, in fact this was a great experience. It's too bad others in academic institutions don't feel that same way. Anyways, I thought I would just share a little bit about myself. I will post my interview experiences and my rejections as they come along. Good luck to all.

I'm not sure why people view being an IMG/FMG as bad in this specialty. It isn't. PCCM isn't exactly competitive right now. And FMGs tend to dominate the ranks. I wonder how much this will change in the near future, as the interventional cards fellowship make it sound like its damn near impossible to get a cards job right now.

Originally Posted by jdh71

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here.

I guess my question is "what are the best pulmonary and critical care fellowships? Like what are the top 10?"

Originally Posted by delsolryda

I guess my question is "what are the best pulmonary and critical care fellowships? Like what are the top 10?"

Gotcha. Debatable, because at this point you need to be asking yourself what you want to do. If your goal is to get through fellowship with solid clinical skills and into a private practice, then the "top programs" may not be what you're wanting anyway, not really. Many of the upper end programs are so because of lots of research, some places as much as two years - they assume you are interested in an academic RESEARCH career and will deliver that for you (or at least set you up as best as possible for it) but you take a cut in clinical time (debatable whether this is ultimately important or not) and do more research, learn grantsmanship, schmooze with the big names at your institution who know other big names in the world - that kind of thing. You also need to ask yourself if you're more interested in pulm or the critical care side of things because not all places have the same level of research into both. Are you interested in transplant? CF? Interstitial lung diseases? Pulmonary hypertension? Interventional bronchoscopy? These are career goals you need to try and define and will need to have defined clearly and succinctly if you going to get a nod from one of the top places, because they won't have a lot of time (or money, the money is the real issue) to waste on people who are not already dead set on academics and research. So make sure you ask very closely questions about your career goals when interviewing.

With all that said the best place for YOU and the top 10 list for YOU could look very, very different than those programs that are considered the academic pulmonary and critical care powerhouses.

I'd say that the top 10 places for pulmonary and critical care, when taken taken together are probably the these . . . (in no particular order)

Colorado (probably number one pulm)
Pitt (probably number one crit care)
The combined Harvard program
Penn
Hopkins
Vandy
WashU
UW
UCSF
Stanford

You could probably tack UTSW, UCLA, and Duke on the bottom of the list as well

Some honorable mentions with regards to more academic programs IMHO would be: UCSD, Utah, Mayo, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Cleveland Clinic

I'm probably forgetting one or two (shoot me if I forgot your favorite )

I applied to 43 places and i already got two rejections. what is everyone else is getting?

I have only applied to 34 programs, no rejections yet. I am planning on adding another 10 or so programs today.

Don't forget that the Harvard programs are no longer combined. BWH is separate now. They will be on ERAS as of September but if you want, you can e-mail them your information and they will evaluate your application now.

Originally Posted by intmed3

Don't forget that the Harvard programs are no longer combined. BWH is separate now. They will be on ERAS as of September but if you want, you can e-mail them your information and they will evaluate your application now.

Hadn't heard that gossip. Why did they decide to split?

Originally Posted by jdh71

Gotcha. Debatable, because at this point you need to be asking yourself what you want to do. If your goal is to get through fellowship with solid clinical skills and into a private practice, then the "top programs" may not be what you're wanting anyway, not really. Many of the upper end programs are so because of lots of research, some places as much as two years - they assume you are interested in an academic RESEARCH career and will deliver that for you (or at least set you up as best as possible for it) but you take a cut in clinical time (debatable whether this is ultimately important or not) and do more research, learn grantsmanship, schmooze with the big names at your institution who know other big names in the world - that kind of thing. You also need to ask yourself if you're more interested in pulm or the critical care side of things because not all places have the same level of research into both. Are you interested in transplant? CF? Interstitial lung diseases? Pulmonary hypertension? Interventional bronchoscopy? These are career goals you need to try and define and will need to have defined clearly and succinctly if you going to get a nod from one of the top places, because they won't have a lot of time (or money, the money is the real issue) to waste on people who are not already dead set on academics and research. So make sure you ask very closely questions about your career goals when interviewing.

With all that said the best place for YOU and the top 10 list for YOU could look very, very different than those programs that are considered the academic pulmonary and critical care powerhouses.

I'd say that the top 10 places for pulmonary and critical care, when taken taken together are probably the these . . . (in no particular order)

Colorado (probably number one pulm)
Pitt (probably number one crit care)
The combined Harvard program
Penn
Hopkins
Vandy
WashU
UW
UCSF
Stanford

You could probably tack UTSW, UCLA, and Duke on the bottom of the list as well

Some honorable mentions with regards to more academic programs IMHO would be: UCSD, Utah, Mayo, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Cleveland Clinic

I'm probably forgetting one or two (shoot me if I forgot your favorite )

Thanks. That was exactly the answer that I was hoping for. This way, when I start getting rejections from the "top programs", it won't be all that surprising. Good luck to everyone here!

Originally Posted by jdh71

Hadn't heard that gossip. Why did they decide to split?

Don't know why, but it seems to be fairly common knowledge. I got an e-mail from my program director with the information and multiple faculty members at my program told me they were splitting.

Originally Posted by jdh71

Gotcha. Debatable, because at this point you need to be asking yourself what you want to do. If your goal is to get through fellowship with solid clinical skills and into a private practice, then the "top programs" may not be what you're wanting anyway, not really. Many of the upper end programs are so because of lots of research, some places as much as two years - they assume you are interested in an academic RESEARCH career and will deliver that for you (or at least set you up as best as possible for it) but you take a cut in clinical time (debatable whether this is ultimately important or not) and do more research, learn grantsmanship, schmooze with the big names at your institution who know other big names in the world - that kind of thing. You also need to ask yourself if you're more interested in pulm or the critical care side of things because not all places have the same level of research into both. Are you interested in transplant? CF? Interstitial lung diseases? Pulmonary hypertension? Interventional bronchoscopy? These are career goals you need to try and define and will need to have defined clearly and succinctly if you going to get a nod from one of the top places, because they won't have a lot of time (or money, the money is the real issue) to waste on people who are not already dead set on academics and research. So make sure you ask very closely questions about your career goals when interviewing.

With all that said the best place for YOU and the top 10 list for YOU could look very, very different than those programs that are considered the academic pulmonary and critical care powerhouses.

I'd say that the top 10 places for pulmonary and critical care, when taken taken together are probably the these . . . (in no particular order)

Colorado (probably number one pulm)
Pitt (probably number one crit care)
The combined Harvard program
Penn
Hopkins
Vandy
WashU
UW
UCSF
Stanford

You could probably tack UTSW, UCLA, and Duke on the bottom of the list as well

Some honorable mentions with regards to more academic programs IMHO would be: UCSD, Utah, Mayo, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Cleveland Clinic

I'm probably forgetting one or two (shoot me if I forgot your favorite )

Would add Michigan to the top list and University of Chicago and Northwestern to the honorable mentions.

Originally Posted by lovepulmcc

I applied to 43 places and i already got two rejections. what is everyone else is getting?

Silence so far. If people want, we can start making a list of interviews/rejections.

I don't know anyone who got an interview yet. I know only of rejections

Originally Posted by ResidentMD

Would add Michigan to the top list and University of Chicago and Northwestern to the honorable mentions.

Yeah Michigan definitely needs to be on the top list somewhere.

I'm not personally impressed by UofChicago or the NWern program. They carry a certain "name brand" from the reputation of their Medicine departments but neither are anything to write home about IMHO.

I'll await the hate mail.

EDIT: I should clarify: I do NOT think UC and NWern "suck" as programs, I just don't think they are stand out. They are fine programs with good training.

Any body heard anything else from any programs?????

Originally Posted by lovepulmcc

I don't know anyone who got an interview yet. I know only of rejections

rejections from where???