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Hello everyone,

Have anyone ever worked for American Best as an optometrist? Can you please tell me a little bit out the working condition? I have heard many not so good reviews about the company and is not sure if I should work there or not. Thanks

Originally Posted by trangngy477

Hello everyone,

Have anyone ever worked for American Best as an optometrist? Can you please tell me a little bit out the working condition? I have heard many not so good reviews about the company and is not sure if I should work there or not. Thanks

I'm going to be short and blunt here. It's the absolute worst that optometry has to offer. In fact, I'd stop short of calling it "optometry." If you need the cash, then so be it, but be aware that you'll be doing roughly 8 "exams" per hour (yes, you read correctly). I have several friends who went to them right out of school, enticed by the 6 figure salary. None of them lasted more than a year and one told me she would routinely cry on the way home from work (not kidding). I think that's a bit extreme, but it's garbage optometry at its worst.

Originally Posted by Jason K

I'm going to be short and blunt here. It's the absolute worst that optometry has to offer. In fact, I'd stop short of calling it "optometry." If you need the cash, then so be it, but be aware that you'll be doing roughly 8 "exams" per hour (yes, you read correctly). I have several friends who went to them right out of school, enticed by the 6 figure salary. None of them lasted more than a year and one told me she would routinely cry on the way home from work (not kidding). I think that's a bit extreme, but it's garbage optometry at its worst.

Hi Jason,
Thank you for the information. I was a little bit skeptical about taking the offer but now I'm pretty sure that I will decline it. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by trangngy477

Hi Jason,
Thank you for the information. I was a little bit skeptical about taking the offer but now I'm pretty sure that I will decline it. Thanks again.

How much was the offer?

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

How much was the offer?

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It's almost always going to be 105K/yr....and you'll earn every penny.

I rather do prison retinoscopy and getting paid cash. But I have to wear Kevlar gloves so they don't bite my hand during the slit lamp exam.

Originally Posted by Jason K

It's almost always going to be 105K/yr....and you'll earn every penny.

Private practice is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

Private practice is the way to go.

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You'll likely take a 25K to 30K dollar pay cut, and that's IF you're able to find a FT position in an office that's hiring (there aren't many around). As terrible as America's Best is, it's the only option for many people graduating from OD programs these days. If the majority of new grads were finding their way into respectable positions in private offices, hospitals, or starting their own offices, I wouldn't be on here, regardless of the incomes that one could expect in those settings.

I'm here because most of you say "Private practice is the way to go," but there's no way for more than a few of you to ever get there.

Originally Posted by OATAcer

Private practice is the way to go.

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Wait, wait, wait.
You're advocating both working at a private practice and going to the new schools?
Those two are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

It's been established that private practice doctors would prefer NOT to hire graduates from these schools. Not only because these graduates are not getting the proper experience from their internships/externships, but also because most optometrists HATE the over-saturation created by these schools. The only fan is the AOA, so I guess you can go work for them.

Please explain how your degree is 'the same,' when graduates from established schools are seeing thousands of complicated patients (GLC, AMD, HTN, DM) while graduates from new school are seeing hundreds of refractive cases.

I hope your 'private practice' comment meant that you'll be starting your own practice, cold.

Naysayers, I said private practice. Don't jump to conclusions like women do. It will be my own private practice. Have a nice week.

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Originally Posted by OATAcer

Naysayers, I said private practice. Don't jump to conclusions like women do. It will be my own private practice. Have a nice week.

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Keep clinging to that. I could list countless 1st and 2nd years who said the same thing. Most of the are PT at several locations.....working commercial. You guys just don't see that the math is not there. You're done before you even start. Don't say you weren't warned.

Originally Posted by OATAcer

Naysayers, I said private practice. Don't jump to conclusions like women do. It will be my own private practice. Have a nice week.

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Racist and sexist are we now? 2 for 1. It is true 65% of OD grads are women and women don't usually care about their careers as much as men but come on men have been getting lazy in recent years so it may change.

BTW I just learned that most SUNY graduates come out and work for ophthalmologists. About 25% work commercial and another 15-30% or so work private practice full time or part time. So if you want good job prospects come to SUNY.

If you are smart, you will listen to Jason K. I have read many of his posts and I have to agree with him 100%. If anything, I would be grateful of him telling the honest truth about the current state of optometry.
For pre-optometry students, you still have time to change your mind about considering optometry as a career. For current optometry students, it is kinda late for you guys, you will soon find out the reality of optometry once you graduate.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

BTW I just learned that most SUNY graduates come out and work for ophthalmologists. About 25% work commercial and another 15-30% or so work private practice full time or part time. So if you want good job prospects come to SUNY.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Challenge.

I will have to demand to see proof since your assertation goes against everything any current ODs thought process holds to be reality in 2012.

Lets see, SUNY graduates 80 ODs per year. So by your claim, 20 go to work in commercial, (about) 20 go to work in private practice and the other half of the class, all FORTY of them find work teching for an ophthalmologist (which is about all a newly graduated OD is good for in an OMD office if truth be told---a good COT will be able to scope and refract better than you in the beginning).

I will not go so far as say you are lying. But if true, SUNY graduates are unlike every other optometry school in the country where likely upwards of 75% enter commercial practice right after graduation (and that is a educated guess on my part).

So where can I find this breakdown? Is it on their webstite?

No, unfortunately its anecdotal. A recent grad (2 years ago) explained these rough statistics to me. I see no reason why he would be lying.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

No, unfortunately its anecdotal. A recent grad (2 years ago) explained these rough statistics to me. I see no reason why he would be lying.

There's a difference between lying and being misinformed/guessing.

I also agree with Jason and Tippytoe about the future of optometry. I am a recent grad (2 years ago) and it is hard out there to find your dream job. Private practice was what I was told while in school and it was also what I thought I would be doing after graduation. However, after trying door-to-door within 25 mile radius as well as online job search for 2 months, I ended up in commerical practice as an indep contractor for the leasing doc at two different locations about 20 miles out. So yes, private practice is most of everyone's dream job but reality is very different.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

No, unfortunately its anecdotal. A recent grad (2 years ago) explained these rough statistics to me. I see no reason why he would be lying.

Dude you can't just be throwing random numbers out on the web and expect people to take you serious.

My friend, you must learn Rule # 1 in Optometry: ALL optometrists almost always lie. It's a tool to survive in the dog-eat-dog profession we are in. (Come to think of it, you may fit right in).

" I have a million dollar practice". (I've heard this one so many times from docs in what turns out to be little run-down shacks that I chuckle just thinking about it).

" Yes. Mrs. Jones, those $500 glasses look much better on you than the $100 ones".

" The private label contacts I sell exclusively at my office are much better than the Acuvues you've been wearing for 10 years and can get for $18 online."

" Yes, I love my job and I could use partner in a few years".

"I have no regrets being an optometrist".

"It's not big deal to take 30 years to pay off my student debt".

"Those $59 glasses at Wal-mart are terrible glasses".

"I'm never ashamed at telling people my "office" is inside Walmart". (Just a little story if you will induldge me: I was at a oncologists office with my wife one time and he was making small talk and found out I was an optometrist. He said, "Oh, where is your office?" It was at that moment that I realized I was sooooo happy I didn't have to hang my head and ashamedly say, "I work at Walmart". No doubt he thought me little more than a good nurse at least better than a chiropractor. But at least I held out a professional demeanor by having a real free-standing private optometry practice when probably his only experience with optometry is seeing the 'Walk-ins Welcome' optometry' sign at the Walmart cash registers or maybe the 2 glasses for $89 sign in the parking lots.)

"You must get your eyes examined every year or they will fall out".

" I am a real doctor because Medicare says so".

As a general rule. Whatever an optometrist says he makes, it's probably safe to assume it's about half to 75% in reality.

It's still not a terrible job or a bad lifestyle.........AT THIS POINT (although it has been better). But all signs point to it worsening. ALL signs!

We are the local hardware store owner getting ready to be run out of business by Home Depot and Lowes and given a job as a fork lift driver in return.

If Optometry were the stock market, everyone would be pulling their money and out running.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

BTW I just learned that most SUNY graduates come out and work for ophthalmologists.

I find this very hard to believe.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

BTW I just learned that most SUNY graduates come out and work for ophthalmologists. About 25% work commercial and another 15-30% or so work private practice full time or part time. So if you want good job prospects come to SUNY.

This actually made me laugh out loud. Shnurek, as usual, you are off in an optometric fantasy world that exists not in reality, but is rooted in what you would like to be true. No amount of imagination can alter reality.

Whoever told you that "most" students from SUNY head into OMD offices is on some sort of mind-altering substance. I'm not tightly connected with the program there, but that's just total nonsense. It fits into your view of what optometry should be, so you buy it.

BTW, I don't know who came up with the concept that working in an OMD office is some sort of OD oasis. In most situations, particularly as a new grad, you're going to be doing refractions and CL fittings on healthy patients.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

No, unfortunately its anecdotal. A recent grad (2 years ago) explained these rough statistics to me. I see no reason why he would be lying.

Since when was hearsay a credible source of information? Was this recent grad doing one of those surgical rotations at the time lol? Sometimes saying "i dont know" shows the intelligence of an individual rather than jumping to answer any question that comes up on this site. I wonder at times if people post just to increase the number under their user names.

Originally Posted by balltc

Since when was hearsay a credible source of information? Was this recent grad doing one of those surgical rotations at the time lol? Sometimes saying "i dont know" shows the intelligence of an individual rather than jumping to answer any question that comes up on this site. I wonder at times if people post just to increase the number under their user names.

Since when is hearsay from Jason K and Tippytoe a credible source of information? I wonder if you just wrote this to increase the number (of posts) under your username. Go find a credible survey or provide some insight on this instead of talking smack and not contributing anything useful. At least Jason K and Tippytoe say something useful. (more so Tippytoe)

Although making blanket statements like this one:

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

My friend, you must learn Rule # 1 in Optometry: ALL optometrists almost always lie.

doesn't really make him any better than me when I throw out "random numbers".

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Although making blanket statements like this one:
doesn't really make him any better than me when I throw out "random numbers".

Except I have a few things you don't--- An Optometry degree, 18 years of experience of starting from scratch and building a successful optometry practice, fellowship in the American Academy of Optometry, published journal articles, associate professorship at a university teaching eyecare and more!

Tell us again of your credentials to offer optometric information/advice?

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Since when is hearsay from Jason K and Tippytoe a credible source of information? I wonder if you just wrote this to increase the number (of posts) under your username. Go find a credible survey or provide some insight on this instead of talking smack and not contributing anything useful. At least Jason K and Tippytoe say something useful. (more so Tippytoe)

Although making blanket statements like this one:
doesn't really make him any better than me when I throw out "random numbers".

I find it hilarious that you demand a credible survey when you are notorious for just making stuff up. I never mentioned Jason K or Tippytoe so I'm not sure where that one came from. As far as talking smack, it wouldn't take more than a quick search of your recent posts to provide some examples of your weak "smack" talk (case in point: you just retorted by saying the same thing about post numbers that I said to you..quite original I must say). You're right about Jason K and Tippytoe saying something useful which often times is a call for you to shutup. I'm sure there are others reading this who can agree you have overstepped your bounds many times by delving into topics that you should probably leave for others to address. I'll let them comment on that if they like. You obviously won't agree but I think I was providing something useful in that I was asking you to stop providing information from erroneous sources and potentially misleading people who are actually looking for something meaningful here.

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

Except I have a few things you don't--- An Optometry degree, 18 years of experience of starting from scratch and building a successful optometry practice, fellowship in the American Academy of Optometry, published journal articles, associate professorship at a university teaching eyecare and more!

Tell us again of your credentials to offer optometric information/advice?

Shnurek just got owned...again.

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

Except I have a few things you don't--- An Optometry degree, 18 years of experience of starting from scratch and building a successful optometry practice, fellowship in the American Academy of Optometry, published journal articles, associate professorship at a university teaching eyecare and more!

Tell us again of your credentials to offer optometric information/advice?

Tippytoe, you seem to have forgotten that Shnurek is a 1st year at "The 2nd highest ranked OD program in the US"....at least according to the Shnurek News & World Report Annual Optometry School Ranking Issue. It's published in limited numbers so it's hard to find on shelves. Actually, I think there's only one copy in print and it's in his head.

Personally, I think that more than trumps 18 years of clinical and business management experience, but that's just me.

As a result of your erroneous statements people no longer find you to be a credible source of information for even your own school. That should tell you something.

Originally Posted by Visionary

Shnurek just got owned...again.

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

Except I have a few things you don't--- An Optometry degree, 18 years of experience of starting from scratch and building a successful optometry practice, fellowship in the American Academy of Optometry, published journal articles, associate professorship at a university teaching eyecare and more!

Tell us again of your credentials to offer optometric information/advice?

Proof? Or just hearsay? Show us your credentials, otherwise anyone can come on these forums and make up a resume. Like you said, ODs almost always lie. You are an OD. Therefore most of what you said is a lie. I agree with you

Originally Posted by Shnurek

Proof? Or just hearsay? Show us your credentials, otherwise anyone can come on these forums and make up a resume. Like you said, ODs almost always lie. You are an OD. Therefore most of what you said is a lie. I agree with you

Now you just sound desperate.

Originally Posted by Jason K

Now you just sound desperate.

You should see what he was posting on the radiology forums.

I think he plans on using his OD to start a liposuction clinic where he also performs appendectomies.

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

You should see what he was posting on the radiology forums.

I think he plans on using his OD to start a liposuction clinic where he also performs appendectomies.

lol...no comment

yeah pretty much no defense left now after everyone chimed in.

Next time save yourself the embarrassment rather than saying things like: "Some dude told me so its probably true"

Originally Posted by balltc

yeah pretty much no defense left now after everyone chimed in.

Next time save yourself the embarrassment rather than saying things like: "Some dude told me so its probably true"

I care very much about winning e-fights My anecdotal evidence is just as good as anyone else's on an anonymous internet forum.

OK, here is something actually useful and somewhat objective to put into us into perspective. http://www.revoptom.com/content/d/ne...vents/c/14557/

I know its from 2009 and I'd be happy if anyone found something more recent. Now lets cut the e-thug attitudes waving our e-penises around and say something useful that does not include blanket generalized statements about how optometry is ending and we are all wasting our lives.

Originally Posted by Tippytoe

Except I have a few things you don't--- An Optometry degree, 18 years of experience of starting from scratch and building a successful optometry practice, fellowship in the American Academy of Optometry, published journal articles, associate professorship at a university teaching eyecare and more!

Tell us again of your credentials to offer optometric information/advice?

Shnruek. I don't know what you look like, but when I imagine this being you...this forum gets 100000x more entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u85u2...eature=related

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I care very much about winning e-fights My anecdotal evidence is just as good as anyone else's on an anonymous internet forum.

If that's what you call "evidence" thats your problem.

Secondly, it wasn't much of an e-fight but rather a beat down. We can avoid this in the future if people such as yourself refrain from posting bs rather than credible info. This is getting old now so I'll leave it at that...

The link you posted had some interesting information but most of it pertains to what 4th year students expected to happen after graduating. Expectations obviously differ from experiences. Interesting though...

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

You should see what he was posting on the radiology forums.

I can only guess......

"I think ODs should be allowed into radiology residencies...you know, because ODs are physicians in the eyes of CMS."

I hope I'm wrong......

Originally Posted by Shnurek

I care very much about winning e-fights My anecdotal evidence is just as good as anyone else's on an anonymous internet forum.

This speaks volumes.

Originally Posted by balltc

...it wasn't much of an e-fight but rather a beat down.

Originally Posted by Jason K

I can only guess......

"I think ODs should be allowed into radiology residencies...you know, because ODs are physicians in the eyes of CMS."

I hope I'm wrong......

Pretty close actually.

Originally Posted by balltc

If that's what you call "evidence" thats your problem.
The link you posted had some interesting information but most of it pertains to what 4th year students expected to happen after graduating. Expectations obviously differ from experiences. Interesting though...

In addition to that, less than 40% of the people they polled were actually employed.

Just posting a friendly reminder to keep it civil, no personal attacks, etc. Thanks!

Originally Posted by QueenieCSS

In addition to that, less than 40% of the people they polled were actually employed.

46% + 5% + 11% + 7% = 69% employed

Just as an aside, most (all?) of these employement polls are self-reported. As in they send out a questionare and wait for a response.

The problem is that many in commercial employement list themselves as "private practice" since it is promoted to them that they are "independent optometrists that can build their own practice inside Walmart" by the recruiters. They fall into a fantasy world and pretend they are not working for the big store, thus, they are in their altered world of private practice. My guess is that a large chunk of that 46% are "independent contractors" (illegally) working at Walmart for another OD (illegally working as independent contractors when by all definitions of the law they are considered employees).

They are not actually employees of the store so what they? Many will tell you they are private practitioners who just happen to rent space inside walmart. And this is what gets reported on the surveys. I've have store ODs tell me this personally. They consider their mode of practice to be private practice optometry. If it makes them sleep better, so be it. But it ain't private practice.

I'll agree with you to an extent because I have talked to many ODs that started out in commercial to pay off their loans but then moved their way into PP. What do you think a non-exaggerated aka realistic percentage would be of graduates first coming out and entering commercial/corporate practice?

I think it is close to 50%...there are a lot of people who graduate and don't have a job and end up doing commerical. It is a situation where people dont want to do it until they are left with nothing else...

I too would say definately over 50%. Probably 60% (it's just where the jobs are unfortunately) with another 10% doing military or residency. The other 30% are moving into to mom or dad's practice, working as a junior OD in a private practice with the hope of partnership that never materializes (then give up after 3 years of being screwed and go into commercial) and a few will find work in a OMD office and high volume Lasik mills (but you burn out quickly there seeing nothing but lasik post ops all day/every day). A few will stay on as faculty of their OD school (which is a joke).

I'm guessing this is about right from watching graduates over the years but I have no hard numbers because again, ODs tend to lie a bit so........

I only know of a few ODs that went to work commercially and later quit to go back to living like a student to start a private practice. It's VERY hard to do in general.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

What do you think a non-exaggerated aka realistic percentage would be of graduates first coming out and entering commercial/corporate practice?

Having asked a couple of hundred outgoing 4th years and new grads this very question, I can say with certainty that for the 3 programs I'm in contact with, the number falls around 2/3. When I say commercial, I mean commercial. I'm talking Walmart, Sam's, Luxottica brands, and regional chains that advertise themselves as "private practice." If your "private practice" employs 193 doctors at 50 locations in a metropolitan area, it's not a private practice. As Tippytoe pointed out, it is almost the rule that doc-in-the-boxes will classify themselves as "private practice."

Here's what I suggest. Do your own questioning. Most outgoing 4th years will retain their email addresses for 6-12 months on the school's system after graduation. Email them 3 months after graduation and ask them for yourself. I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll find exactly what I've found - 2/3 go into commercial. The balance go into residency, military, and a few into private practice. I divide up the entire lot by hours so I can fairly assign weight to those grads who work in PP and commercial. I'm being generous by not factoring in anything about new grads who only work 16 hours per week because that's all they can find.

It's not pretty, chief. Do your own research.

Originally Posted by Shnurek

46% + 5% + 11% + 7% = 69% employed

The article literally states:

"Indeed, as of early April when the survey was taken, as many as half (49%) of the 2009 graduating class already had firm plans for their first working position. Of these, 38% had accepted a job offer about half of them as employed associate O.D.s in private optometric practices."

49% had plans, and only 38% of those with plans had accepted a job offer - with only half of those in private practice. So even though 49% had plans, less than half of them actually had an offer finalized. So I apologize, it appears to be less than the 40% that I had originally stated.

You can't just add the numbers on the pie chart to get what you want, that isn't how statistics work. That pie chart is ONLY for people who have accepted an offer.

lol I got owned again. I think I need a break until I start caring more to read things more carefully.