Horrible GPA first 2 years of undergrad I NEED HELPP WANT TO GO DENTAL SCHOOL!!!

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FIRST OF ALL i'm new to the student Doctor Network and I browsed for a while didn't find a similar situation as mine and I apologize if something like this has been posted.

But I am studying Kinesiology at York university and I did horrible in my first 2 years of undergrad in regards to my GPA. I was working full time since my sister couldn't get a OSAP loan for some reasons so I was supporting her with her tuition and to top it off I just wanted to get a degree never thought of anything else after. But now I realised Dentistry is what I want to do after going to International Service Learning in Tanzania Africa for volunteering.

Now I need to know what I should do regards to my C's and D's in my transcript in my first 2 years my academic adviser said I had some options such as:

-RETAKE THE COURSES WITH A GRADES
-OR PETITION ALL MY C's and D'S in my 2 years and if my petition goes through successfully they will completely get rid of the marks from my transcript as if I have never taken them and I must take them again but the downside to that is it will still show in my transcript that I have been enrolled in the University from the year I started my Undergrad so it'll be shown as 6 years if I to retake all the courses.
-Or if the petition is unsuccessful i should just concentrate on my last 2 years of undergrad with to get a high GPA and do a masters in a science field and high mark in DAT + job shadowing hours

Both ways I am kinda behind on credits so I might finish my undergrad in 5 years because I never failed any courses but I have dropped 1 or 2 in the last 2 years so I don't know if finishing your undergrad in 5 years would look bad. I am not applying to dental schools in Canada because it's really hard due to high number of applicants and only few dental schools I am willing to apply to the US dental schools or Australian schools since its now accredited in Canada.

TO BE HONEST THE PASSED 2 YEARS I HAVE STUDIED FOR TESTS AND EXAMS THE DAYS BEFORE AND PULLED A C+ OR B WITHOUT GOING TO LECTURES AND I HAD A 96.4% IN HIGH SCHOOL SO I KNOW I CAN DO THIS BUT NEED TO KNOW WHAT I SHOULD DO?

PLEASE GIVE ME AN ADVISE OR OPINION ON WHAT TO DO I AM STRESSED OUT HERE AND DO NOT HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT I SHOULD DO FROM HERE !!!!!!!

Horrible is so relative but lets say your GPA is a 2.5, if you get A's and some B's from here on out you do you think you could bring it up to at least a 3.0? Also retake all D's and if you got C's in chem or bio I suggest you retake those as well) Aside from that upward trend, you'll need very high DAT scores and a lot of extra curriculars. Basically your GPA should be your ONLY weak spot and I'm pretty sure there will be a dental school out there that would take you. Just apply early that year and you should be fine.

Originally Posted by ataha

Horrible is so relative but lets say your GPA is a 2.5, if you get A's and some B's from here on out you do you think you could bring it up to at least a 3.0? Also retake all D's and if you got C's in chem or bio I suggest you retake those as well) Aside from that upward trend, you'll need very high DAT scores and a lot of extra curriculars. Basically your GPA should be your ONLY weak spot and I'm pretty sure there will be a dental school out there that would take you. Just apply early that year and you should be fine.

To be honest. I would recommend you take some time to do some soul searching. I know how you feel since I too have been in somewhat a similar situation. The road to rebuilding your dental resume is a long and hard road, make sure it's the path you really want and are willing to make sacrifices to get to your end goal. Although you did well in HS, you have to put that kind of thinking in the past because you really can't compare the level of difficulty in HS to the University level. Take note of what ataha said because it's all true. You can also try searching for low gpa or success stories in the search field. I'm sure you'll be very happy to read some of those post, I know I did.

I know this may seem paradoxical but use this time to take a step back and find out what you want and why you want it (not just doing out of fear of a unsuccessful future). Trust me, if you do use this time for that then I promise you you'll only strengthen your resume and be happier over all. Hope this helps and best of luck Arash.

thanks for your repply and yes I think I can bring up my gpa to a 3.0 and work on extra curricular's but if I decide to retake those science courses it would still mean I have to finish my undergrad in 5 years since I am going to be retaking many courses would that be fine ?

thanks for your recommendation gladiator also and I know what you mean I should consider to put some time and thought on what I really want to do sometimes in life you never knew you wanted something until the opportunity presents itself in some form. But let's I decided this is what I want to do and I am willing to put in the years of hard work to it and sacrifices do you have any suggestions for my situation I wrote at the top ??

Originally Posted by arash2012

thanks for your recommendation gladiator also and I know what you mean I should consider to put some time and thought on what I really want to do sometimes in life you never knew you wanted something until the opportunity presents itself in some form. But let's I decided this is what I want to do and I am willing to put in the years of hard work to it and sacrifices do you have any suggestions for my situation I wrote at the top ??

If it makes you feel any better I finished my BA in 6 years with a minor in Biology. Yes, it may look bad that I finished mine in 6 years but I really cherished what I've gone through till this day it made me who I am .

I would recommend you retake your science pre-reg courses if you did bad in them (C or below). I've also heard from ad com that it's better for you to take upper division bio courses then to retake the science courses you've already taken and gotten Bs in. This is entirely up to you because I don't know how much of the materials you've retained or even never understood. Also, one most important advice I can give to you. Go to your professor office hours. You'll be surprise at how much you'll learn from them and the aid they can offer. Again, if you start to take yourself out of the equation, everything will seem to fall in place

Best of luck friend.

Originally Posted by arash2012

thanks for your repply and yes I think I can bring up my gpa to a 3.0 and work on extra curricular's but if I decide to retake those science courses it would still mean I have to finish my undergrad in 5 years since I am going to be retaking many courses would that be fine ?

Lots of people take more than the "stated" 4 years to complete their undergraduate degree. It's more of the norm nowadays. DS adcoms like older applicants with built up experience. Keep in mind, the average age for an entering dental student is 24.7. So starting dental school at 21-22 after 4 years of undergrad happens too, but you will be younger than most of your entering class. Many people need time to study for the DAT, build up experience, end up realizing they are in for a career change, and live life a little before they make the big commitment.

Thanks for the reply gladiator was it your marks that you wanted to upgrade and so you stayed back additional 2 years? and so after you finished in 6 years did dental schools look at your last 2 years of education and got an overall average from that or they took in consideration your whole 6 years and looked at your Cumulative GPA and DAT scores? and did they question you as to why it took you 6 years to finish your undergrad ?

Thank you for your reply Society'sDentist I mean what your saying is also true and I don't mind spending extra time gaining experience and if I were to retake all the courses in my first 2 years of undergrad and apply to Dental schools with high cumulative GPA wouldn't it be a disadvantage when compared to other applicants who have performed really well throughout their undergrad and finished in 4 years and applied for the same spot as me ? I mean if there were students in my position and applied to dental schools after 6 years of undergrad and got accepted what was the reasons they did get admissions when compared to the 4 year undergrad graduates ?

I am finishing my 7th year of undergrad and I got in a few places. Like others have said, think about how you can succeed, and put yourself in a place that is conducive to that. If you work hard, and get a solid upward trend you will be in great shape.

Originally Posted by arash2012

Thank you for your reply Society'sDentist I mean what your saying is also true and I don't mind spending extra time gaining experience and if I were to retake all the courses in my first 2 years of undergrad and apply to Dental schools with high cumulative GPA wouldn't it be a disadvantage when compared to other applicants who have performed really well throughout their undergrad and finished in 4 years and applied for the same spot as me ? I mean if there were students in my position and applied to dental schools after 6 years of undergrad and got accepted what was the reasons they did get admissions when compared to the 4 year undergrad graduates ?

Yup, read Bereno's reply too. That's exactly the reason, they understand. It's only natural that we're all human. A large amount of people who graduate too soon don't finish with great grades anyways. It's better to know that you have a path planned out that you can take on; rather than do it so quick as to fail and dig yourself in a deeper ditch. As for clearly answering your question. No, they will not care and you will not be at a disadvantage. Almost an advantage if I say so myself, compounding your time factors and experience that I hope you gain.

Appreciate the responds guys so Bereno when you applied did they include a cumulative GPA of all 7 years and your DAT+ extra-curricular or do they look at your last 2-3 years and average that ?
And when they say they require your cumulative GPA and science GPA is that the overall average for all of the science courses you have ever taken?

Arash,

Take everything given on these boards with a grain of salt. Yes, it's true some people take longer than others to finish undergrad and enroll in professional school.

However, these are unconventional cases. The ideal situation has been four years of undergrad and four years of dental school. Keep that in mind. Adcoms will indeed see how long you took for undergrad. You're right to think an applicant with a 3.3 in four years vs a 3.3 in five years will have an advantage.

In your situation, I would call up the dental schools you are planning to apply to(meaning all your in-state schools) as well as schools that will accept a lower GPA.

Remember, you still have to take the DAT. This will be huge. Will you be able to remember and apply your general chemistry concepts 4 years from now? Remember, the DAT has an expiration date too. It isn't like the SAT or ACT. Ideally, you want to take it once. Plan, plan, plan. Shadow, shadow, shadow. Dental school is a commitment. If you want to pursue something in health care, but you aren't ready or able to bring your GPA where it needs to be (a 3.0 is not a competitive score for D-school) then look at other options. Pharmacy, PA, physical therapy(something to consider with your Kinesiology degree), optometry, podiatry etc. Your opporunities are endless. These are all respectable, lucrative and self-rewarding professions you should also consider. Is staying in undergrad for longer + professional school really something you're ready to do?

I would look into physical therapy. Anecdotally, it seems to be right up your ally with your undergraduate degree.

Originally Posted by TheToothsayer

Arash,

Take everything given on these boards with a grain of salt. Yes, it's true some people take longer than others to finish undergrad and enroll in professional school.

However, these are unconventional cases. The ideal situation has been four years of undergrad and four years of dental school. Keep that in mind. Adcoms will indeed see how long you took for undergrad. You're right to think an applicant with a 3.3 in four years vs a 3.3 in five years will have an advantage.

In your situation, I would call up the dental schools you are planning to apply to(meaning all your in-state schools) as well as schools that will accept a lower GPA.

Remember, you still have to take the DAT. This will be huge. Will you be able to remember and apply your general chemistry concepts 4 years from now? Remember, the DAT has an expiration date too. It isn't like the SAT or ACT. Ideally, you want to take it once. Plan, plan, plan. Shadow, shadow, shadow. Dental school is a commitment. If you want to pursue something in health care, but you aren't ready or able to bring your GPA where it needs to be (a 3.0 is not a competitive score for D-school) then look at other options. Pharmacy, PA, physical therapy(something to consider with your Kinesiology degree), optometry, podiatry etc. Your opporunities are endless. These are all respectable, lucrative and self-rewarding professions you should also consider. Is staying in undergrad for longer + professional school really something you're ready to do?

I would look into physical therapy. Anecdotally, it seems to be right up your ally with your undergraduate degree.

There is some truth to what you say Thetoothsayer but it really depend on the school and the adcom individuals themselves. As for having a back up plan I completely support but like I said before anything is possible if your heart and mind is in it. Life doesn't always come down to numbers.

And yes. Dental schools will look at ALL the courses you've taken and take both a cumulative and science GPA. However, if you have an upward trend in your grades they will take note of that and take that into consideration.

Originally Posted by arash2012

Appreciate the responds guys so Bereno when you applied did they include a cumulative GPA of all 7 years and your DAT+ extra-curricular or do they look at your last 2-3 years and average that ?
And when they say they require your cumulative GPA and science GPA is that the overall average for all of the science courses you have ever taken?

They looked at my entire collegiate history.

Basically you just enter in all your classes into AADSAS and they do all the calculations for you. They will look at your cGPA which is the average GPA of all classes you have taken, your sGPA, which is the average of all science classes you have taken, and then they will look at your BCP, which is the average GPA for all Bio, Chem, and Phys classes you have taken.

Originally Posted by arash2012

thanks for your repply and yes I think I can bring up my gpa to a 3.0 and work on extra curricular's but if I decide to retake those science courses it would still mean I have to finish my undergrad in 5 years since I am going to be retaking many courses would that be fine ?

It's not a race, so don't worry how long it takes you, just make sure that you do well. I took me six years to complete my degree, and I have now been working full time for three years in addition to turning down a commission in the USAF. In the end, it has taken me a long time to get where I'm going, but everything I've done and experienced has enhanced my life in one way or another. Don't panic, just figure out where you're going, point yourself that in that direction, walk with a sure step, and enjoy the view along the way, because we all end up at the same destination no matter how long it takes to get there. No excuses, no decisions based in fear, and most of all, no regrets!

Originally Posted by TheToothsayer

However, these are unconventional cases. The ideal situation has been four years of undergrad and four years of dental school. Keep that in mind. Adcoms will indeed see how long you took for undergrad. You're right to think an applicant with a 3.3 in four years vs a 3.3 in five years will have an advantage.

I disagree with this. It really depends on your individual situation, which we don't know much about for the OP. For example, a student whose parents paid for all or most of their college and finished in four years looks good. But, there is also something to be said for the guys and gals who paid their way through school by working jobs and as a result took an extra year or two to graduate. It's simply too difficult to make blanket statements and generalities about the admissions process because the adcoms will JUDGE you based upon your individual circumstances and credentials. That said, all other things being equal, yes, four years looks better than five.

Originally Posted by Cello

I disagree with this. It really depends on your individual situation, which we don't know much about for the OP. For example, a student whose parents paid for all or most of their college and finished in four years looks good. But, there is also something to be said for the guys and gals who paid their way through school by working jobs and as a result took an extra year or two to graduate. It's simply too difficult to make blanket statements and generalities about the admissions process because the adcoms will JUDGE you based upon your individual circumstances and credentials. That said, all other things being equal, yes, four years looks better than five.

That's correct. In your circumstance OP, with your awakening from your volunteering trip and supporting of your sister I do not think adcoms will look down on your extra time. However, this will not tip the scale in your favor. It will rather even the playing field. Adcom love perseverance, which is why positive grade trends are often prioritized over other secondary factors.

Remember, dental school, like all profession schools, is a business. Adcoms will use your DAT and GPA to gauge your ability to perform in dental school and in practice. You must make sure you can bring your GPA up to par.

Not everyone is fortunate or prepared enough to find themselves in the standardized 4-year undergrad 3.6 GPA, 20 DAT, 150+ hours of shadowing and volunteering niche. You will need to play up your strengths. Judging from what is in your post, it seems you have already done a lot on your own(meaning not with the intention of going to dental school)

I appreciate your suggestions guys but do you guys think I should petition my grades out of my transcript and repeat the courses or should I just leave them their and just retake the courses which then will show both grades in my transcript. The only thing with petitioning my grades in my transcript is I don't know if my school will accept it if it goes through my low grades from my first 2 years will be removed and it'll show that I have taken 1-3 courses a year in the first 2 years (which are my A's and B's) would that be questionable for dental schools as to why I only took few credits my first 2 years since they won't see the dropped courses ?

Originally Posted by arash2012

I appreciate your suggestions guys but do you guys think I should petition my grades out of my transcript and repeat the courses or should I just leave them their and just retake the courses which then will show both grades in my transcript. The only thing with petitioning my grades in my transcript is I don't know if my school will accept it if it goes through my low grades from my first 2 years will be removed and it'll show that I have taken 1-3 courses a year in the first 2 years (which are my A's and B's) would that be questionable for dental schools as to why I only took few credits my first 2 years since they won't see the dropped courses ?

I am not familiar with petitioning of grades or the Canadian system of grades. Adcom will ask for all your collegiate transcripts. The key is to do well on your DAT. Don't focus too much on the grades. You can always complete a masters program if need be. If you did poorly in your pre-reqs, I would consider retaking those classes in order to perform on the DAT. Organic chemistry, biology, general chemistry, mathematics must be up to par. It will also help you considerably if you master biology courses before entering dental school. Histology, biochemistry, and human anatomy will help with the DAT and dental school.

If you did well in your pre-reqs then yes, petition your grades.

does the masters GPA count in your cumulative gpa and science gpa ? or they just look at your undergrad gpa and the masters GPA is there to compliment on your increase of knowledge and increase trend in GPA.

Originally Posted by arash2012

does the masters GPA count in your cumulative gpa and science gpa ? or they just look at your undergrad gpa and the masters GPA is there to compliment on your increase of knowledge and increase trend in GPA.

Undergrad and graduate grades are calculated separately.

Hey I was in your same shoes not too long ago. You got to ask yourself how BAD do you want it? It CAN be done. Take the time to read these 2 threads.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=511370

the acceptance thread...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=795448

Best of luck