Midway College of Pharmacy changes direction

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http://www.midway.edu/news-events/mi...-program-plans

A dean from my school moved up to Midway to become THE Dean of their COP, and he suddenly vanished following Midway's voluntary withdrawal from the ACPE accreditation process. Now all our professors who followed him up there (5 or so) are gone, and this press release says Midway isn't opening its own school any more.

Instead, they're opening a branch campus for another school, University of Charleston, WV.

So be on the look out, there are now approximately one school worth of academics running like chickens with their heads cut off looking for jobs.

Interesting.

I wonder if this is a workaround for starting a new school. Rather, I wonder if the accreditation process is easier for a school "expanding" to a 2nd campus vs. opening a new one. It looks like it because January 2013 is next year.

We've suspected this on the boards all along, it's not new schools with 80 students popping up that is causing the pharmacist oversupply, it's the old schools going from 120 to 240 students and opening satellite campuses that's doing it.

Tricky tricky.

a friend who was hired as faculty at Midway will be staying on with UofCharleston.

Originally Posted by confettiflyer

Rather, I wonder if the accreditation process is easier for a school "expanding" to a 2nd campus vs. opening a new one.

In a word: YES.

So long as the satellite campus follows the existing curriculum at the mother school, that eliminates a whole set of ACPE standards that the new program would have to worry about developing and getting ACPE's blessing. It may not speed things up, but it is certainly easier.

This was certainly a surprising development.

First time this "loop hole" has been exploited? If so, I bet a trend starts in the next year...

They had a really hard time getting pre-candidate status (delayed it a few yrs).

Lame...couldn't even fit the minimum requirements. This would really make me want to go there.

Originally Posted by rxlea

Yep. And y'all keep saying where you go to school doesn't matter

I wonder if a tier system similar to law school won't develop soon.

Originally Posted by PharMed2016

I wonder if a tier system similar to law school won't develop soon.

If so, the SDN pharmacy boards should get credit for predicting it so early. That's been the assumption since I first joined.

Originally Posted by pharm B

If so, the SDN pharmacy boards should get credit for predicting it so early. That's been the assumption since I first joined.

Yes I think it is fair to say SDN was maybe 10-20 years ahead of the curve on that one.

Originally Posted by rxlea

Yep. And y'all keep saying where you go to school doesn't matter

it won't...because you'll get to say you graduated from:

XYZ Prestigious College of Pharmacy -- satellite campus in the bumf*ck of nowhere

Originally Posted by joetrisman

First time this "loop hole" has been exploited? If so, I bet a trend starts in the next year...

I believe that Creighton's online program is the only recent new program to develop via branching. There are some other dual campus and distance learning programs that are already well established. But, for this to happen at a newer school of pharmacy is an intersting development. U Charleston does have full accreditation now, though. We'll see how the expansion plans go over with ACPE. They still seem to be on a yearly review cycle at this point.

The only thing I see in ACPE guidelines that would affect the branch campus is Guideline 27.5: "Commensurate with the numbers of students, faculty and staff, and the activities and services provided, branch or distance campuses must have or have access to physical facilities of comparable quality and functionality as those of the main campus."

Something tells me there will be guideline updates coming.

Originally Posted by pharm B

If so, the SDN pharmacy boards should get credit for predicting it so early. That's been the assumption since I first joined.

Originally Posted by owlegrad

Yes I think it is fair to say SDN was maybe 10-20 years ahead of the curve on that one.

Originally Posted by confettiflyer

it won't...because you'll get to say you graduated from:

XYZ Prestigious College of Pharmacy -- satellite campus in the bumf*ck of nowhere

I totally agree. And SDN gets a bad rap at some schools. They just don't know how good SDN members' skills are when it comes to seeing the future

The Dean of UC says that "it could go either way" in this article:
http://www.58wchs.com/includes/news_...1&section_id=7

Looks like the partnership with UC will not happen after all:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/stor...armacy-School/

Hopefully the first of many.

Originally Posted by KARM12

Hopefully the first of many.

UNT next please

Originally Posted by glory4england

UNT next please

Yes, UNT please be next. I would be scared to have this guy as dean. Just look at him.

http://connections.hsc.unt.edu/?p=6294

Originally Posted by ACE Rx

Yes, UNT please be next. I would be scared to have this guy as dean. Just look at him.

http://connections.hsc.unt.edu/?p=6294

PhD? Not even a PharmD? You would think you would need to hold the degree you're selling...

He comes from the university from arizona and did research at mayo clinic. Was well known in our med chem department. He's not some nobody....

with that said, can't say people here were too pleased about someone from our school starting a new school

Originally Posted by rxlea

\
with that said, can't say people here were too pleased about someone from our school starting a new school

That seems par for the course though. My school's dean and some associate deans had roots at USP/PCP (the established school down the street). I think UH Hilo's (opened fall 2007) dean came from Purdue.

we should have a party to celebrate

Originally Posted by bananaface

I believe that Creighton's online program is the only recent new program to develop via branching. There are some other dual campus and distance learning programs that are already well established.

The online program started in 2001 and the campus program started in 1905. I may be biased but I consider that to be well established.

Remember, there was still a shortage of pharmacists back in 2001 and even as late as 2005, when the first online class graduated - the fact the shortage still existed in 2005 could be debated. But I don't think it is fair to use this as your example of branching. There have been a number of schools when have opened their doors between 2001 and now and an even larger number of established schools who have raised the number of people they accept. Lots of fault to go around.

This situation is significant for quite a few reasons. It is the first well-established school that has failed to start up a pharmacy program. Correct me if I am wrong.

The pharmacy building is complete and the money for it was largely donated by local hospitals and the city of Paintsville. There is talk that the city will be filing a lawsuit against Midway college. This is in addition to the inevitable student lawsuits.

Does anyone else think that the entire college could be shut down because of this? I doubt they could cover the financial losses from all those lawsuits.

Originally Posted by MidwayStudent

Does anyone else think that the entire college could be shut down because of this? I doubt they could cover the financial losses from all those lawsuits.

We can only hope.

As a student at UC, I'm incredibly happy with the decision. The Dean had multiple conversations with the students regarding what we thought, and it's appreciated to see that they weren't just looking for more money signs. I hope other schools realize the impending doom if the trend continues, not only to the students, but the profession as a whole.

As for Midway College being sued, that's on them. The area already had Marshall coming up, so I'm not sure what they were thinking quite frankly. They pretty much reaped what they sowed, and like many other schools, didn't look far enough ahead. Everyone's looking for the quick buck and I guess it didn't pay off that time.

Oh wow, I'd forgotten about the building.

So was there a class of students already attending during this mess?

I'm curious to know what the hell happened behind the curtains. But it is a good sign that the ACPE is serious about its job!

Originally Posted by xXRAYNEXx

I'm curious to know what the hell happened behind the curtains. But it is a good sign that the ACPE is serious about its job!

ACPE has stamped its feet until it was blue in the face trying to get out the point that they don't regular the rate of new school openings. If this school had had its stuff together, they probably would have been approved.

Midway voluntarily withdrew its application (presumably because it would have been rejected or found lacking), the administration was canned, a president resigned, another university considered taking on the project and passed. Sounds like Midway's got some internal troubles.

Here's to the pharmacy school that never was, as names like Midway and Paintersville (and Kentucky for that matter ) fade from memory once again.

Originally Posted by Pharmacceptance

As a student at UC, I'm incredibly happy with the decision.

Can you explain why?

Originally Posted by Pharmacceptance

The area already had Marshall coming up, so I'm not sure what they were thinking quite frankly. They pretty much reaped what they sowed, and like many other schools, didn't look far enough ahead. Everyone's looking for the quick buck and I guess it didn't pay off that time.

Midway initially made their plans in 2009 or earlier, before Marshall announced their intentions. We were told classes would start at Midway in August 2011... Marshall was hasn't even announced when their classes are supposed to start (as far as I know).

Originally Posted by xXRAYNEXx

I'm curious to know what the hell happened behind the curtains. But it is a good sign that the ACPE is serious about its job!

Where did you get this idea?

Originally Posted by rxlea

He comes from the university from arizona and did research at mayo clinic. Was well known in our med chem department. He's not some nobody....

with that said, can't say people here were too pleased about someone from our school starting a new school

Not saying he's a nobody, but isn't that strange not being a pharmacist, yet being the dean of a school of pharmacy? He certainly has qualifications as a professor, but I don't know what is required to be a dean. You don't have the degree you're granting. I guess he could sit in on the classes and give himself a PharmD with the first class. Although it's not like you really need to know pharmacy to be a dean, since you're mostly dealing with administrative tasks rather than teaching.

I don't think the concept of a non-pharmacist being the dean of a pharmacy school is a novel one. One of my saltier acquaintances said that he was mad when University of Texas got a pharmacist for a dean.

i keep thinking this school is in chicago, stupid name

as for lawsuits...what's the basis for them? there just HAS to be fine print that amounts to "if we don't get accreditation, all bets are off." I'm sure the pharmacy building could easily be repurposed for other uses.

Originally Posted by SadPharma

Can you explain why?



Midway initially made their plans in 2009 or earlier, before Marshall announced their intentions. We were told classes would start at Midway in August 2011... Marshall was hasn't even announced when their classes are supposed to start (as far as I know).

Why wouldn't I be happy? I'm tired of seeing new schools sprout up out of the ground, and I refuse to turn a blind eye just because it would be my school. Many of my fellow students grilled administrators about this considering they gave Marshall a hard time by saying there just wasn't enough demand for another school. A few months later, they go and look into getting a branch open. It didn't sit right. I came to this school because it was a small, close-knit community. A branch school would completely ruin that. For all I know, they'd introduce "distance learning" and cut professors or something. I wasn't interested in that. Not only that, but do we really need more pharmacists? The argument was that UC, as a private school, would have trouble competing with Marshall and WVU. Students in WV would prefer the lower tuition offered by state schools, and we'd be SOL. My opinion is to embrace competition and find new ways to attract students without ruining the profession.

As for Marshall opening up: That's been in the works for some time now. They're application for accreditation was pushed back I believe, but they're on track now. I believe when Midway was accepting students, they knew it was only a matter of time before Marshall opened up.

Someone previously asked if Midway had accepted students and the answer is yes. Faculty and students had moved to the area already thinking everything was dandy. In the end, they're the ones I really feel for. I couldn't imagine being in that situation, but I hope everything works out for them, one way or another.

Originally Posted by pharm B

I don't think the concept of a non-pharmacist being the dean of a pharmacy school is a novel one. One of my saltier acquaintances said that he was mad when University of Texas got a pharmacist for a dean.

UNT's new dean not having a PharmD doesn't bother me as much as the reasons why they are opening up a school in Texas. It's obviously for financial gain. Dallas already have a pharmacy school and Texas has 6, etc... (beating a dead horse here...)

UNT is also opening up a law school in 2014, because you know, we need more lawyers. They failed to get a medical school going because I guess the medical schools accreditation organization probably figured 9 medical schools in Texas is enough.

They also failed to get Tier One status last year too.

Originally Posted by Pharmacceptance

I'm tired of seeing new schools sprout up out of the ground, and I refuse to turn a blind eye just because it would be my school.

I understand you dislike new schools, but doesn't it make you a bit of a hypocrite considering that you applied to an unaccredited school yourself?

I was waiting for this response.

I applied to an accredited school. I didn't apply to the school when it was unaccredited, nor would I. The school had cheaper tuition,and was in an area I wanted to experience, originally being from a big city. Not only that, but when the school opened up, there was no other school nearby. The only other school in WV was WVU. The situation wasn't the same as Midway's, but that's just my opinion. It just makes me sick with how out of hand it is now. Every school uses studies projecting a huge influx of prescriptions being filled, but fail to think that perhaps technology will be playing a big role. The answer isn't to pump out more pharmacists imho.

Originally Posted by Pharmacceptance

I applied to an accredited school. I didn't apply to the school when it was unaccredited, nor would I.

Yet you posted in this thread that you had applied to Thomas Jefferson and Notre Dame, both of which were unaccredited at the time:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...8#post10162888

Originally Posted by Pharmacceptance

Schools you are applying to
Univ. of Charleston, Notre Dame MD, Jefferson, Albany College of Pharm, Auburn
b. Overall GPA
2.88 (Should be 2.93 or so after this semester)
c. Math/Science GPA
2.30 or so Should also increase

My apologies, but where did I say I didn't apply to any unaccredited schools? I said I wouldn't apply to the school (as in UC) when it wasn't accredited. And I wouldn't have because I had no idea of the school's main campus reputation or achievements. Do not try to sit here and stick me with a "Gotcha'" moment because you're mad. I didn't sit there and blast you for applying there. You got screwed. Sorry, but don't take it out on me because I, as well as many folks here, think the school itself should have never opened.

I can't believe you seriously tried to get me with that. If you're going to be bitter, go to the pre-pharm forum and blow that up. Others have their own problems to worry about.

Originally Posted by SadPharma

Yet you posted in this thread that you had applied to Thomas Jefferson and Notre Dame, both of which were unaccredited at the time:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...8#post10162888

You DO realize candidate status is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from "unaccredited", right? Jefferson was candidate status when he applied and ND was pre-candidate awarded.

Originally Posted by glory4england

UNT's new dean not having a PharmD doesn't bother me as much as the reasons why they are opening up a school in Texas. It's obviously for financial gain. Dallas already have a pharmacy school and Texas has 6, etc... (beating a dead horse here...)

I know Texas Tech has that satellite campus in Dallas, but there hasn't been a full four year program in Dallas. I was always surprised a big metroplex like DFW didn't have its own pharmacy school, so I can see why UNT thought of the idea. I would have thought UTSW or Baylor would have done it before UNT though. And now since so many students from the other schools do their rotations and/or move back there after graduation, there really isn't much of a need for a school there anymore.

Originally Posted by lauradiddle

I know Texas Tech has that satellite campus in Dallas, but there hasn't been a full four year program in Dallas. I was always surprised a big metroplex like DFW didn't have its own pharmacy school, so I can see why UNT thought of the idea. I would have thought UTSW or Baylor would have done it before UNT though. And now since so many students from the other schools do their rotations and/or move back there after graduation, there really isn't much of a need for a school there anymore.

You're correct that there isn't a four-year program in Dallas. However Texas Tech is essentially a Dallas COP. The ninety students or so spend their first two years in Amarillo and the last two in Dallas. I can't imagine many would want to go back to Amarillo so I consider Texas Tech to be Dallas' COP UT also send about 20-25 students to Dallas and Houston 5-10 in addition to schools from Louisiana and surrounding states.

I don't really believe that UNT is opening up a pharmacy school because there isn't one in Dallas, it's more to raise their profile.

Originally Posted by SadPharma

Yet you posted in this thread that you had applied to Thomas Jefferson and Notre Dame, both of which were unaccredited at the time:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...8#post10162888

::sigh:::

more improper use of the term "unaccredited" vs. pre-accredited vs. candidate accredited vs. fully accredited.

i'd link my post from ~2009 but i'd be repeating myself..over and over and over...

Originally Posted by owlegrad

Where did you get this idea?

If they weren't, the school would get pre-candidate, wouldn't it? It's nice to see the ACPE enforcing high standards to prevent these new pharm schools from popping up every corner like starbucks. I forgot they can't control the supply of pharmacists, but keeping high standards in quality education is good too.

Originally Posted by glory4england

You're correct that there isn't a four-year program in Dallas. However Texas Tech is essentially a Dallas COP. The ninety students or so spend their first two years in Amarillo and the last two in Dallas. I can't imagine many would want to go back to Amarillo so I consider Texas Tech to be Dallas' COP UT also send about 20-25 students to Dallas and Houston 5-10 in addition to schools from Louisiana and surrounding states.

I don't really believe that UNT is opening up a pharmacy school because there isn't one in Dallas, it's more to raise their profile.

Oh wow, I didn't realize so many Tech students did the last half in Dallas (I thought many still stayed in Amarillo), so between them and UT yeah, you pretty much are already having a full class do their rotations in DFW every year. And then of course you have the other schools to add to that. Even OU has a few sites down there (though we don't send students for the entire fourth year like some of the Texas schools do). But even if there was some sort of hypothetical need, I can totally see UNT's primary motive being to raise their profile haha.

Originally Posted by xXRAYNEXx

If they weren't, the school would get pre-candidate, wouldn't it? It's nice to see the ACPE enforcing high standards to prevent these new pharm schools from popping up every corner like starbucks. I forgot they can't control the supply of pharmacists, but keeping high standards in quality education is good too.

I forget if I've brought this up before or not, but why don't we do like MDs and have step tests, require everyone to do a residency, and let the test scores lead to residency competitiveness and subsequent job placement. I mean, pharmacy is already split up into many different specialties, so why not? As I understand it, the residency spots kinda control the MD #s

Originally Posted by joetrisman

I forget if I've brought this up before or not, but why don't we do like MDs and have step tests, require everyone to do a residency, and let the test scores lead to residency competitiveness and subsequent job placement. I mean, pharmacy is already split up into many different specialties, so why not? As I understand it, the residency spots kinda control the MD #s

Good idea in theory. But the reality is that most pharmacist jobs (retail) don't require a residency. Unlike MDs, pharmacists don't need a residency to practice pharmacy. It's an overkill to do a retail residency. Specialized jobs that do require one are too few. I only see this may happening when we increase our scope of practice in order to have enough jobs in specialized areas for this to be even seriously considered.

Sent from my PC36100

Originally Posted by glory4england

You're correct that there isn't a four-year program in Dallas. However Texas Tech is essentially a Dallas COP. The ninety students or so spend their first two years in Amarillo and the last two in Dallas. I can't imagine many would want to go back to Amarillo so I consider Texas Tech to be Dallas' COP UT also send about 20-25 students to Dallas and Houston 5-10 in addition to schools from Louisiana and surrounding states.

I don't really believe that UNT is opening up a pharmacy school because there isn't one in Dallas, it's more to raise their profile.

I would do some research before posting "facts". Tech's Dallas campus only took 40-45 students when I completed the program. The others either stay in Amarillo or go to Lubbock. In the past few years, Tech has added seats in Abilene as well, so the total enrollment is above 120.

As for your second post, UNT IS going to open up a pharmacy school. The first class will be entering 2013, unless plans change. UNT is based in Denton and their health sciences center is in Fort Worth, so the Dallas area will be covered.

Originally Posted by lauradiddle

I know Texas Tech has that satellite campus in Dallas, but there hasn't been a full four year program in Dallas. I was always surprised a big metroplex like DFW didn't have its own pharmacy school, so I can see why UNT thought of the idea. I would have thought UTSW or Baylor would have done it before UNT though. And now since so many students from the other schools do their rotations and/or move back there after graduation, there really isn't much of a need for a school there anymore.

Thought the same thing as you. UNT first had plans to open a pharmacy school starting in 2008, but that plan was scratched. University of Dallas recently planed to open up a pharmacy school, but after the housing market crash, they could not get the $25 million funding they needed. Finally UNT is officially opening up a pharmacy school, but I think it's a little too late.

Originally Posted by Got Em

I would do some research before posting "facts". Tech's Dallas campus only took 40-45 students when I completed the program. The others either stay in Amarillo or go to Lubbock. In the past few years, Tech has added seats in Abilene as well, so the total enrollment is above 120.

As for your second post, UNT IS going to open up a pharmacy school. The first class will be entering 2013, unless plans change. UNT is based in Denton and their health sciences center is in Fort Worth, so the Dallas area will be covered.

-__- Enrollment for Abilene + Amarillo is 120+ but there's around 40ish at Abilene and 90ish at Amarillo. I applied at Tech 3 years ago so from what I got out of my interview is that all students from Amarillo would head to Dallas for the last two years, guess that's not the case.

As for my second post, I never said UNT isn't going to open up a pharmacy school. I said there's no need for one in Dallas because so many schools send their students there. UNT's argument that North Texas needs a Pharmacy school isn't a good one. Thanks for letting me know UNT is in Denton though, because you know, I have no idea where it is since I only live in Texas my entire life.