MD 3.4cGPA 3.7sGPA

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Wondering if I could get a little advice here. I'm currently at Michigan State University and am doing Computer Science Engineering. I decided I wanted to do the medical track for sure about 5 months ago, so I'm now playing catch up. Here is what it's looking like so far:

I will have about a 3.4-3.5 cGPA and a 3.7 sGPA by the time I apply to med school(got into a bad car accident and ended up 0.0 all my classes that semester, luckily none would count towards my sGPA) and am taking the MCAT this summer. I plan on getting around a 34 on that.

I am starting my volunteering this month at the hospital for 4 hours each week and plan to keep that up for the next year and a half until I apply. I will start shadowing a couple doctors this year, as well. I'm also looking into a few other non-health related volunteer opportunities.

Lastly, I took last semester off and moved down to NC for 7 months and worked for IBM. I'm now back at MSU and working remotely, part-time, for them and will be for the rest of my undergrad.

I really want to get into Wake-Forest down in NC. So, my question is what are some good things to focus on between now and when I apply that would really give me a leg up? More volunteering, and if so where? Research? I was thinking about really trying to learn spanish, too(I'm hispanic, so I suppose that makes me a URM.) Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

You should really consider what type of medical school and what type of medical path you want to choose for considering more EC's. If you plan to attend top-tier research school (Harvard, Hopkins, WUSTL, Stanford), research is a necessity. Even better, a publication at a respectable journal or university-sponsored work will increases your chances.

If your focus is on practice (Wake Forest, Tulane, Wayne State), then you should focus more on volunteering.

Hey imperviousOne, thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I do not believe that I have anywhere near the qualifications to get into a place like Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, etc...

I agree with the more volunteering, but curious as to what type would be viewed the best. Something like helping plant trees or tutoring under privileged kids? Any other input would be great.

It's pretty cool you worked at IBM ! Since your computer science engineering you could probably more easily get involved with research these days since your tech-savvy and could adjust to use those programs in different labs. Look into what's out there and e-mail some labs. Try to find one in the future where you'd be able to work closely with the PI and really learn what research is like. Getting a publication would really be nice.

More importantly than the extracurricular, I would focus on your GPA to bump it up and make it more competitive and focus on those sciences so that you have a good background for taking on the mcat. Although, most computer science majors I know of at my school find the life sciences a cake walk compared to the ridiculous programming classes they take. For me, even the most basic Fibonacci series program was 100x harder than all the science concepts I had taken at Ugrad. Except comparably University physic's concepts and calculations. Good luck!!

Originally Posted by kyle7938

Wondering if I could get a little advice here. I'm currently at Michigan State University and am doing Computer Science Engineering. I decided I wanted to do the medical track for sure about 5 months ago, so I'm now playing catch up. Here is what it's looking like so far:

I will have about a 3.4-3.5 cGPA and a 3.7 sGPA by the time I apply to med school(got into a bad car accident and ended up 0.0 all my classes that semester, luckily none would count towards my sGPA) and am taking the MCAT this summer. I plan on getting around a 34 on that.

I am starting my volunteering this month at the hospital for 4 hours each week and plan to keep that up for the next year and a half until I apply. I will start shadowing a couple doctors this year, as well. I'm also looking into a few other non-health related volunteer opportunities.

Lastly, I took last semester off and moved down to NC for 7 months and worked for IBM. I'm now back at MSU and working remotely, part-time, for them and will be for the rest of my undergrad.

I really want to get into Wake-Forest down in NC. So, my question is what are some good things to focus on between now and when I apply that would really give me a leg up? More volunteering, and if so where? Research? I was thinking about really trying to learn spanish, too(I'm hispanic, so I suppose that makes me a URM.) Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

You might consider applying for a retroactive withdrawal from classes from that bad semester if you have pertinent documentation of your medical issues.

Work on hands-on nonmedical community service that helps the poor at an organization you care about, shadowing, peer leadership, and research, besides the planned medical volunteering.

Originally Posted by vayntraubinator

It's pretty cool you worked at IBM ! Since your computer science engineering you could probably more easily get involved with research these days since your tech-savvy and could adjust to use those programs in different labs. Look into what's out there and e-mail some labs. Try to find one in the future where you'd be able to work closely with the PI and really learn what research is like. Getting a publication would really be nice.

More importantly than the extracurricular, I would focus on your GPA to bump it up and make it more competitive and focus on those sciences so that you have a good background for taking on the mcat. Although, most computer science majors I know of at my school find the life sciences a cake walk compared to the ridiculous programming classes they take. For me, even the most basic Fibonacci series program was 100x harder than all the science concepts I had taken at Ugrad. Except comparably University physic's concepts and calculations. Good luck!!

Originally Posted by Catalystik

You might consider applying for a retroactive withdrawal from classes from that bad semester if you have pertinent documentation of your medical issues.

Work on hands-on nonmedical community service that helps the poor at an organization you care about, shadowing, peer leadership, and research, besides the planned medical volunteering.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Vayntraubinator, does it matter what kind of research I do? For example, does it matter if I do research in the naturals sciences vs computer science research? Aha, and yes, chemistry, biology, etc. come rather easy to me. These upper level CSE classes are gettin to me, though!

Catalystik, thank you for informing me of a retro-active withdraw. I did not know that I even had the option of trying to do that. After researching it at my school, it seems like I might have a shot of getting that. Also, I've tutored for about a combined total of ~2 years. After this semester I'll also have the opportunity to be a student leader for volunteers at the hospital.

One more question, how will adcomms look at me working part time for IBM while I'm in school. Unfortunately I do not have more time for volunteer positions and such.

Originally Posted by kyle7938

One more question, how will adcomms look at me working part time for IBM while I'm in school. Unfortunately I do not have more time for volunteer positions and such.

Adcomms like to see that you can carry a heavy load and still succeed academically. Having a job can be part of that load. Key message here it understand your limitations and have good time management skills. Academics must come first.

http://www.valuemd.com/

Originally Posted by Catalystik

Adcomms like to see that you can carry a heavy load and still succeed academically. Having a job can be part of that load. Key message here it understand your limitations and have good time management skills. Academics must come first.

Thanks for the guidance, Catalystik. Based on many of your previous posts, I can tell your word is something I should follow, aha. Last couple things I wanted to ask; Do you feel that I have a relatively decent shot at Wake-Forest, or the very least an in-state MD program? Lastly, as far as research goes, does it matter what field it's in? Computer Science vs Natural Science?

Thanks in advance!

With your stats not yet set in stone, it's premature to "predict" where you'll get interviews.

Average matriculant stats for Wake are 3.58/31.5. A 3.4 cGPA is at their bottom tenth percentile. With a 34 MCAT, you might get their attention, but I'd be more confident if you can get those bad grades off your record. Let us know how that goes. UNC 's average stats are 3.62/32.2 but has a 3.3 bottom tenth percentile for cGPA.

If you are in-state for Brody, they are somewhat less stats driven at 3.6/29.7 with a 3.1 bottom tenth percentile for cGPA, but they have a mission to produce primary care docs. Some experience in NE NCarolina would help your case there.

Besides clinical experience, physician shadowing, research, and nonmedical community service (I'd pick tutoring poor kids), it helps to have some leadership. In your case, having an EC that maintains a connection with your ethnic group would also be helpful.

Hey guys, just wanted to give an update for the end of this semester.

I've volunteered about another 50 hours in the ER, and put in about 20 hours of shadowing an internal medicine resident.

I also implemented an entire EMR system at a podiatrists office(gotta love being computer science). I then helped train all the staff on the new system.

Grades-

2nd semester of Bio- 4.0
2nd Gen chem - 4.0
and I believe I'll end up with two 3.0's in my computer science courses, giving me a 3.5 for the semester.

Plans for the summer:

Going back to full time with IBM (working remotely)
Taking full time classes, which include:

Orgo 1
Orgo 2
Orgo lab
Genetics

Registered for my MCAT on September 7th, so I'll also be studying for the MCAT, as well. I'll have about a 3 week break from the last day of summer classes and my MCAT. Figure my orgo, bio and gen chem should still be relatively fresh.


I also have yet to hear back about the retro-active withdrawal. It is still under review.

Based on all this, when I go to apply next year, it looks like I'll end up with a relatively low cGPA ~3.4, but my sGPA should be rather strong ~3.7. I'd really like to get accepted to Michigan State, University of Michigan, Duke(reach, I know.) or Wake Forest. If I 4.0 this summer semester and end up getting above a 3.5 for the last 3 semesters, what should I aim for as far as my MCAT score goes to be pretty competitive for MD programs, not just the ones listed above?




Any comments/suggestions are greatly welcome.

Ok, and I have one more question regarding my plans for summer-- Should I take genetics or no?

Reason why I question it is this-- For computer science I have to have a cognate(X amount of credits outside the college of engineering). For me, mine is pre-med, but out of those X amount of credits 2 of those classes have to be at the 300-400 level.

Now I already plan on taking biochem in a couple semesters, so there's one 300-400 level course. I also have registered for physiology for the fall, which is a 300 level course. So those combined two would satisfy my cognate... Genetics is a 300 level course, but would seem a waste of money/credit hours if I don't NEED to take it, BUT I hear the summer online class is quite a bit easier than other semesters-- aka better chance at getting a 4.0 and padding that science gpa.

So, do I drop genetics, opening up more free time to study for the MCAT, or keep it and try and pad my sGPA? How beneficial would genetics be to me for the MCAT?

Originally Posted by kyle7938

Ok, and I have one more question regarding my plans for summer-- Should I take genetics or no?

Reason why I question it is this-- For computer science I have to have a cognate(X amount of credits outside the college of engineering). For me, mine is pre-med, but out of those X amount of credits 2 of those classes have to be at the 300-400 level.

Now I already plan on taking biochem in a couple semesters, so there's one 300-400 level course. I also have registered for physiology for the fall, which is a 300 level course. So those combined two would satisfy my cognate... Genetics is a 300 level course, but would seem a waste of money/credit hours if I don't NEED to take it, BUT I hear the summer online class is quite a bit easier than other semesters-- aka better chance at getting a 4.0 and padding that science gpa.

So, do I drop genetics, opening up more free time to study for the MCAT, or keep it and try and pad my sGPA? How beneficial would genetics be to me for the MCAT?

An A in Genetics can only help you, but it is usually a tough class and your BCPM is already high, so you'll have to balance the pros and cons yourself depending on the intensity you perceive you'll need for MCAT study. I think the Biochem and Physiology are usually more helpful for the MCAT, but even that depends on the version you get.

Ok guys, update for the end of summer. I took 12 credits this summer which were:

Orgo1- 4.0
Genetics- 4.0
Orgo2- Won't know for another week or so what my final grade is, but sitting at a 4.0 right now
Orgo Lab- Also sitting at a 4.0, will know for sure in about a week.

In addition I've been working 40 hours a week all summer for IBM. I tried adding in some volunteering, but I just did not have time. I also postponed my MCAT until the start of next year. I did, however, probably spent about 20 hours shadowing an internal medicine senior resident at the hospital. Does it matter that he's a resident?

I heard back about the medical retroactive withdrawal and they're saying I didn't provide enough evidence to them to drop those 0.0's off my GPA. I think I will be hiring an attorney in regards to this, because that'd be the difference between a 3.3 cGPA and a 3.5 (assuming I keep 4.0ing all my classes) when I apply to med schools.

O, I also switched my major from CSE to Human Bio with a computer science minor(Figure this way I can pad both my sGPA and cGPA since it's much easier for me to 4.0 my science classes than CSE classes)

I'm staying full time all year with IBM, and probably all next year, too. I'm taking 15 credits in the fall semester and 15 in the spring. I figure if I can pull off 3 straight semesters of 4.0's while taking nothing but upper level science classes, and working full time that it should show adcoms that I'm serious, right?

So, what should my next steps be? It'll be hard for me to add in research and different volunteering with full time classes and working full time. I'm worried that I wont have enough EC's, but if I don't work full time I can't afford to stay in school. Any suggestions?

My top 3 schools I'd like to attend are Duke, University of Michigan or Wake Forest. As stated previously, I'm a Michigan resident and half hispanic. What are my shots looking like at this point?

Thanks in advance!

Ok, just got my grades back for the summer:

Orgo1- 4.0
Orgo2- 4.0
Orgo Lab- 4.0
Genetics- 4.0

Anyone have suggestions on what kind of EC stuff I should focus on in the meantime?

Alright guys, I'm a little over halfway through the semester and here is what my grades are thus far:

Physics 1 Lab- 3.5
Physics 2 Lab- 4.0
Biochemistry- 4.0
Physiology- 4.0
Anatomy- 4.0

I've also been working full time since may. I've put a few more hours in shadowing an internal medicine resident, and will soon be shadowing a cardiologist. I'm also in the middle of trying to contact people to start volunteering in the hispanic community(deliver food, tutor, etc).

I have my MCAT set for January 26th, and feel pretty confident I'll do well.

One big crimp in my application, though. Those 0.0's from the semester I got in the car accident did not get removed from my transcript. I did an approximate calculation of my cGPA and sGPA by the time I apply next year, and it came to ~3.2 and 3.8, respectively. I have a crazy upward trend going, though, so hopefully that'll help.

The things that worry me-

Will I be automatically filtered out of the higher tier schools due to my cGPA?
Do I have a shot at higher tier schools given my lack of research?
Will med schools understand my less than stellar EC's due to working full time while in school, and/or also my cGPA due to those 0.0's?
Should I try and shadow a primary care physician, rather than a cardiologist?

Am I on the right path? Should there be something else I should be looking into? Sorry, just want other peoples opinions on what would help my application the most.


As always, any advice is appreciated!

Nice work. Could you go to the hospital that treated you for your injuries from the car accident, and show those records to the school? I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but it seems like that would certainly change their mind.

Originally Posted by kyle7938

1) Will I be automatically filtered out of the higher tier schools due to my cGPA?
2) Do I have a shot at higher tier schools given my lack of research?
3) Will med schools understand my
a) less than stellar EC's due to working full time while in school, and/or also
b) my cGPA due to those 0.0's?
4) Should I try and shadow a primary care physician, rather than a cardiologist?

1) Probably, but you never know who has automatic computer cutoffs and who might have human eyeballs look further when stats are disparate. And you don't know who might do a Recalculation, such as might occur when one semester is an outlier, so that the GPA is recalculated without it (I have no idea how common this is, just that it exists).

2) Probably not, unless you have such magnificent leadership or sustained, intense service to others that an adcomm is impressed anyway that you have strong potential to become a leader in medicine.

3) a) Yes. b) If you explain it with the right tone.

4) Both would be nice. Some cardiologists don't practice cardiology only. Especially when they are just entering practice, they might also be involved in general internal medicine, too.

Thanks for the responses.

Leer, unfortunately I've tried this, but it seems that the only way they'd accept them as a valid excuse is if I was paralyzed or hospitalized for an extended period of time. The fact that I was pretty much bed ridden and in physical therapy for nearly 6 months apparently isn't a good enough reason.

Catalystik, I appreciate the honest answers. You've been extremely helpful. In regard to magnificent leadership, what would pass for that? I worked at a podiatrists office my freshman/sophomore year in college and while I was there I put together a proposal to the doctor to implement an EMR system. I did research on the different systems, pros/cons, the cost, the amount of savings based on her Medical assistants having more free time, etc. She ended up deciding to do it, and I lead the entire implementation of the system down to training all the workers on it.

During that time, she would do days at one of her offices that was pretty much free "basic" appointments for the underprivileged. I volunteered to help most of these days(not sure if this counts or not)

After that, I moved away and have done quite a bit of tutoring, and will soon be getting back into helping the underprivileged. Also, I have a business(I was a private contractor for database work before my job with IBM), and was looking into turning it into a not-for-profit organization to help kids, whose families can't afford computers, learn about technology(putting my computer science background to work).

I also may be a TA for one of the genetics classes(spring or summer).

Would this count as magnificent leadership(this isn't including any my hospital volunteer work)? I have other things I did my senior year of HS/summer before college, but not sure if we can count stuff this far back.

Basically what my question boils down to is this- Should I try getting into some research now, or keep up with the volunteer work? Unfortunately with full time classes and working full time, while studying for the MCAT, I cannot do both. Which will make me a stronger applicant?

Originally Posted by kyle7938

1) In regard to magnificent leadership, what would pass for that?

I worked at a podiatrists office my freshman/sophomore year in college and while I was there I put together a proposal to the doctor to implement an EMR system. I did research on the different systems, pros/cons, the cost, the amount of savings based on her Medical assistants having more free time, etc. She ended up deciding to do it, and I lead the entire implementation of the system down to training all the workers on it.

2) During that time, she would do days at one of her offices that was pretty much free "basic" appointments for the underprivileged. I volunteered to help most of these days(not sure if this counts or not)

3) After that, I moved away and have done quite a bit of tutoring,

and will soon be getting back into helping the underprivileged. Also, I have a business(I was a private contractor for database work before my job with IBM), and was looking into turning it into a not-for-profit organization to help kids, whose families can't afford computers, learn about technology(putting my computer science background to work).

4) I also may be a TA for one of the genetics classes(spring or summer).

5) Would this count as magnificent leadership(this isn't including any my hospital volunteer work)?

6) I have other things I did my senior year of HS/summer before college, but not sure if we can count stuff this far back.

7) Basically what my question boils down to is this- Should I try getting into some research now, or keep up with the volunteer work? Unfortunately with full time classes and working full time, while studying for the MCAT, I cannot do both. Which will make me a stronger applicant?

1) Examples: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...12&postcount=8

2) Of course it does, though not as leadership. I'd pick volunteer-clinical even though it was a podiatric office (I worked in a pod office before med school, too, BTW).

3) Tutoring goes under teaching.

4) TA goes under teaching.

5) See answer to #1. "Magnificent" is in the eye of the beholder.

6) Not unless it continued into the college years.

7) I doubt a semester of research will impress the research-oriented schools. Still, it's good to at least try it (for the sake of the checkbox, and all). If you just don't have the time, I think you'd be better off carrying through the theme of Service that you've already developed, keeping in mind that longevity counts in a given gig. Recall that leadership refers to Peer leadership. And, that if you do all the work yourself, it's more of a project. Leadership means delegating tasks to others, or groups, or subcommittees, etc., and taking overall responsibility for making sure the job is done right. JMO.

Awesome link, thanks much for sharing it. Since you too worked in a pod's office, maybe it's a good sign for me =P

Based off of what I read, and your response to #7, wouldn't leading up on the implementation of the EMR system count as leadership? I mean, I worked with the EMR providers, I handled finding, ordering and overseeing the installation of all the hardware(computers, touch screen monitors, servers, etc), I then led the training on the system(the EMR provider had given me the software to use on my own, so that I could do this), and because the EMR was customizable I worked with her and her MA's to tailor the system to their needs. This probably isn't magnificent by any means, but if it's not a leadership role, how would I describe it when applying to schools?

Also, if I were to go through with changing my business into a not-for-profit organization, how would I describe/label that when applying?

Originally Posted by kyle7938

1) Based off of what I read, and your response to #7, wouldn't leading up on the implementation of the EMR system count as leadership? I mean, I worked with the EMR providers, I handled finding, ordering and overseeing the installation of all the hardware(computers, touch screen monitors, servers, etc), I then led the training on the system(the EMR provider had given me the software to use on my own, so that I could do this), and because the EMR was customizable I worked with her and her MA's to tailor the system to their needs. This probably isn't magnificent by any means, but if it's not a leadership role, how would I describe it when applying to schools?

2) Also, if I were to go through with changing my business into a not-for-profit organization, how would I describe/label that when applying?

1) Employment? In the description, you'd describe what you did and try to emphasize the leadership-y components and the responsibility you were given.

2) Isn't this Employment, too? Wouldn't you still draw a salary? Couldn't you describe its evolution and again emphasize leadership components and the good that your leadership led to? The title you give the activity can help you move adcomm thoughts in the direction you want them to go, too. Maybe use the word Entrepreneur, or Director, or Founder, etc. Discuss how you juggled legal, accounting, organizational, and employee issues to help make your point.

Update:

Got my grades back for this semester:

Physics 1 Lab- 3.0 (Ridiculous, good thing it was only 1 credit)
Physics 2 Lab- 4.0
Physiology- 4.0
Anatomy- 4.0
Biochemistry- 4.0

This leaves me with a 3.93 semester GPA, and a 3.2 cumulative GPA (since those 0.0's are still on my transcript from that accident)

I've also shadowed the lead cardiologist at the hospital close to me. My MCAT is Jan. 26th, and I'm just now starting to study. I may put it back another month, depending on how I'm scoring on practice exams a couple weeks prior.

Originally Posted by kyle7938

Update:

Got my grades back for this semester:

Physics 2 Lab- 4.0
Physiology- 4.0
Anatomy- 4.0
Biochemistry- 4.0

Nice.

Originally Posted by Catalystik

UNC 's average stats are 3.62/32.2 but has a 3.3 bottom tenth percentile for cGPA.

I wonder how relevant that is to OP's situation?? When I hear that a medical school has 3.3 cgpa as the bottom tenth percentile I ask, "Is that because most people with a 3.3 cgpa have a 3.3 sgpa (give or take a point)?". Since OP has a 3.4 cgpa and a 3.7 sgpa, I'm CONFUSED.

What if UNC's stats were 3.5/32.2, would that be different?

PLEASE FILL ME IN IF YOU CAN. I've really been wondering about this as there are comparable situations with other people as well. Thanks.

Ok, quick question. Need some advice on my class schedule this upcoming semester. I'm up in the air about which class I should take(which would look better to Med school when I apply in May)

My first option is "Disease in Society"-- Course description:

Human epidemiology and population health issues facing contemporary society. Developed and less-developed settings. Health-related information in the mass media and scholarly publications.


My other option is Immunology. Don't think I need to give you guys a course description for that one.

I'm leaning more towards the latter. Also, I can use Immunology to fullfil either of my last two remaining required groups of courses for my degree, but not both. So I would have to take it, then in the Fall I'd take Disease in Society. Or I was thinking rather than Disease in Society I could fulfill my last required class with research in a biology lab, and I could do that this semester before applying to med school.

What do you guys think would be/look best?

Honestly, the adcoms will not look at your transcript so in detail as to care about which specific classes you take, especially considering all they see is your class code on your transcripts.

Take the class you are most interested in and confident you can do well in.

Thanks for the quick response darkjedi! Immunology is a 451 level course while Disease and Society is a 390 level. Would adcoms really not take that into account? I suppose I'm just more worried about it because I'm trying to prove to med schools that I'm fully capable of handling the med school load. I've done some major GPA repair this past year and want to do everything I can to prove that I wouldn't struggle.

Update: I'm doing well in all my classes this semester. Should end up with between a 3.9 and 4.0, assuming I keep doing well on the exams.

I will also be applying this cycle. My MCAT is June 20th, so I'll be applying in July whenever I get my scores back. Is this still considered early? Also, I took a practice MCAT without having studied at all and received a 28(physical- 5; biology-11; verbal-12). I haven't had physics or chem 1 in about 4 years. I'm confident after actually studying for a month or two straight this summer I should be able to pull it up to at least a 33/34, but I'm aiming for 35+.

It looks like my cGPA will be somewhere between a 3.15 and 3.2, while my sGPA should be between 3.7 and 3.8. I'm worried about my low cGPA. How much will this effect me? My wishful thinking says that med schools would weigh my science GPA much more heavily than cumulative, since med school curriculum is the sciences. Would I be correct in thinking this?