what happens to subspecialty cert if you flunk IM recert

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Need to recert in IM by the end of the year. What happens to my sleep boards (which I took and passed through the ABIM) if I flunk IM?
Incidentally, I am also Board certified in psych, but took my sleep boards through IM because at the time I wasn't certified in psych.
I haven't practiced general IM since 2005, right now my practice is 99% sleep and 1% psychiatry.

Hard to find a straight answer at abim.org on this one.

I'm pretty sure that you won't lose your active sleep cert if you fail IM recert. But you would need to take it again and pass prior to your Sleep recert time.

Or you could just reapply for sleep through ABPN when the time comes. Not sure what potential hassles that might bring but something to consider.

Originally Posted by gutonc

Hard to find a straight answer at abim.org on this one.

I'm pretty sure that you won't lose your active sleep cert if you fail IM recert. But you would need to take it again and pass prior to your Sleep recert time.

Or you could just reapply for sleep through ABPN when the time comes. Not sure what potential hassles that might bring but something to consider.

is it different for sleep than it is for other specialties? my gf rotated through a GI office that had a doc that was only recert in GI and didn't pass his IM recert.

Originally Posted by gutonc

Hard to find a straight answer at abim.org on this one.

I'm pretty sure that you won't lose your active sleep cert if you fail IM recert. But you would need to take it again and pass prior to your Sleep recert time.

Or you could just reapply for sleep through ABPN when the time comes. Not sure what potential hassles that might bring but something to consider.

I'm almost positive you don't have to maintain an IM cert after you've sat for your sub-specialty boards the FIRST time.

You just re-cert your sub-specialty on time to keep that cert.

Many of the staff in my program have told me they've dropped the IM cert since many of them do pulm, crit, and sleep

Originally Posted by jdh71

I'm almost positive you don't have to maintain an IM cert after you've sat for your sub-specialty boards the FIRST time.

You just re-cert your sub-specialty on time to keep that cert.

Many of the staff in my program have told me they've dropped the IM cert since many of them do pulm, crit, and sleep

That was my understanding as well, which I think is a recent change in the rules. But I couldn't find anything to that effect in a quick review of the ABIM site.

Your answer is here:http://www.abim.org/moc/policies.aspx#participates

Bad news, dude. For sleep, you need to recert your core IM.

Originally Posted by aProgDirector

Your answer is here:http://www.abim.org/moc/policies.aspx#participates

Bad news, dude. For sleep, you need to recert your core IM.

thanks.

I am going to give passing the IM recert exam this year my best shot. Sleep doesn't come up for renewal for me until 2017, so I guess as long as I pass IM by then I will be ok?

I don't think I am eligible to get certified in sleep under psych, since the grandfathering period is over (I did my sleep fellowship in 2002-2003, before it became an ACGME-certified fellowship. I was eligible for the ABIM sleep certification based on being certified by the old sleep board).

In a worst case scenario, I guess I can rely on my "old" sleep certification (diplmate of the American Board of Sleep Medicine) which never expires and is still accepted by medicare and most insurers. I don't think it will come to this, however

Originally Posted by michaelrack

as long as I pass IM by then I will be ok?

Yes, and thinking ahead, you should plan to retake your sleep boards in 8 years (before they expire again) and you can get two sleep cycles from one IM cycle.

Regarding sleep, is it a specialty that is not exclusively owned by pulm / CC??

I hear of some neurology doing it and psych as above. Are there multiple ways other than pulm / CC to get into it?

Originally Posted by LoudBark

Regarding sleep, is it a specialty that is not exclusively owned by pulm / CC??

I hear of some neurology doing it and psych as above. Are there multiple ways other than pulm / CC to get into it?

Multiple ways into sleep, but you've got to fellowship into it now.

Used to be finish a pulm/crit fellowship and work as a sleep doc - no more.

You can apply out of multiple specialties.

Originally Posted by LoudBark

Regarding sleep, is it a specialty that is not exclusively owned by pulm / CC??

I hear of some neurology doing it and psych as above. Are there multiple ways other than pulm / CC to get into it?

Neuro, Psych, Peds, IM (or any IM sub...usually Pulm though), FM and ENT.

I know a Neuro/Sleep person, a Peds/Sleep person (who sees adults) and several Pulm/Sleep folks.

Originally Posted by aProgDirector

Your answer is here:http://www.abim.org/moc/policies.aspx#participates

Bad news, dude. For sleep, you need to recert your core IM.

Thanks for that. I knew it was there somewhere, quite buried.

Originally Posted by gutonc

Thanks for that. I knew it was there somewhere, quite buried.

Yeah. It was a good pick-up.

Originally Posted by aProgDirector

Yes, and thinking ahead, you should plan to retake your sleep boards in 8 years (before they expire again) and you can get two sleep cycles from one IM cycle.

thanks, aProgDirector

Originally Posted by gutonc

Neuro, Psych, Peds, IM (or any IM sub...usually Pulm though), FM and ENT.

I know a Neuro/Sleep person, a Peds/Sleep person (who sees adults) and several Pulm/Sleep folks.

Also Anesthesiology now:

http://www.theaba.org/home/examinations_certifications

Originally Posted by michaelrack

Also Anesthesiology now:

http://www.theaba.org/home/examinations_certifications

The gas trolls are king of making money not doing much. I'm surprised it took them this long.

Though, I don't really see the anesthesia to sleep connection.

Originally Posted by jdh71

The gas trolls are king of making money not doing much. I'm surprised it took them this long.

Though, I don't really see the anesthesia to sleep connection.

Propofol...MJ style.

Originally Posted by michaelrack

Also Anesthesiology now:

http://www.theaba.org/home/examinations_certifications

I kind of assumed the gassers could do it but didn't see them listed anywhere. I got the list I posted from the Harvard-affiliated sleep program which didn't include gas. I find that kind of humorous.

Originally Posted by gutonc

Propofol...MJ style.

Well, sleep is a little more than making people unconscious.

Originally Posted by jdh71

The gas trolls are king of making money not doing much. I'm surprised it took them this long.

Though, I don't really see the anesthesia to sleep connection.

perioperative screening/management of sleep apnea. Upper airway management. Knowledge of ventilatory modalities (including BiPAP).

Originally Posted by michaelrack

perioperative screening/management of sleep apnea. Upper airway management. Knowledge of ventilatory modalities (including BiPAP).

still don't see it

none of those seem like the kind of things that would require a guy to do an extra year

well, sleep is kind of a feeding frenzy for now

we'll see what insurances and medicare/caid do in the next few years as it becomes obvious that most patients probably don't need in clinic sleep studies

What is the typical sleep practice like? How long is a Sleep fellowship out of IM?

Originally Posted by inspirationmd

What is the typical sleep practice like? How long is a Sleep fellowship out of IM?

1 year fellowship. Sleep practice 25-75% reading sleep studies, 25-75% seeing patients- mostly sleep apnea... for more details, you may find the sleep forum helpful.

Originally Posted by jdh71

still don't see it

none of those seem like the kind of things that would require a guy to do an extra year

The extra year is to learn the rest of sleep medicine. Each underlying specialty brings something to the table. A psychiatrist may already know a lot about the evaluation and tx of insomnia, but would do a sleep fellowship to be able to expertly treat all the sleep disoders. I am guessing that many anesthesiologists who do sleep felllowships would then practice primarily sleep medicine and have a primarily outpt sleep medicine practice.

Originally Posted by michaelrack

The extra year is to learn the rest of sleep medicine. Each underlying specialty brings something to the table. A psychiatrist may already know a lot about the evaluation and tx of insomnia, but would do a sleep fellowship to be able to expertly treat all the sleep disoders. I am guessing that many anesthesiologists who do sleep felllowships would then practice primarily sleep medicine and have a primarily outpt sleep medicine practice.

Of course. Everyone needs to get while the getting is still good.

Originally Posted by jdh71

Of course. Everyone needs to get while the getting is still good.

There is still one decent year left. Don't know how things will be in 2014, when Obamacare takes effect (and home sleep testing continues to expand)...

Originally Posted by aProgDirector

Yes, and thinking ahead, you should plan to retake your sleep boards in 8 years (before they expire again) and you can get two sleep cycles from one IM cycle.

In fact, theres really no reason to recert IM now. You'd be better off waiting until 2015 (give yourself a buffer year), recert IM and then recert sleep twice off the 10 years from the IM cert.

I decided not to recert in IM.

Originally Posted by Gastrapathy

In fact, theres really no reason to recert IM now. You'd be better off waiting until 2015 (give yourself a buffer year), recert IM and then recert sleep twice off the 10 years from the IM cert.

I decided not to recert in IM.

Found out a few days ago I passed the IM exam. I can't meet the other requirements (including quality/perfomance improvement project) before my certificate expires at the end of the year, but should be done with them by April 2013. I think I am just going to go ahead and take the sleep exam later in 2013-assuming it is offered in the fall- (while my knowledge base is still relatively fresh) and get it over with.
Then I can worry about recerting in psych (expires 2017)