Are there any nursing students who don't want to be NP/CRNA?

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I ask this question in all seriousness. On rotations I've talked to dozens of nursing students. By and large very cool people whom I enjoy talking with. But one interesting thing I've been noticing is that when I ask them what they're planning to do after graduation, they almost invariably answer that they want to go to NP or CRNA school. Seriously probably 95% of them. Most don't even mention plans of what they want to do as an RN - the only interest is in becoming a provider.

Am I just getting a really skewed sample or is this the trend? Is it fair to say that any more, nursing school is more about an alternative path to being a provider than it is about nursing? And who will be doing the nursing job in 20 years if everyone becomes a provider?

Just something I've noticed and thought about, wondering if others have some perspectives.

In my graduating nursing class of 32, I think most of us said we wanted to be NPs, CNMs or CRNAs, lol. According to the alumni website, only one of us has. The percentage of those who want to go to graduate school and those that actually do is probably quite different. Probably similar to the number of high school seniors who say they are going to go the medical school compared with the number that actually do. Life sometimes just has a way of interfering with our plans!

Unfortunately, its true. A lot of people have stated that their reason for entering nursing school was to become a CRNA and that always seems to bug me a little.

Originally Posted by Daggum

Unfortunately, its true. A lot of people have stated that their reason for entering nursing school was to become a CRNA and that always seems to bug me a little.

Well you know they have to in order to be a CRNA!

I'm around a lot of nursing students. I'll start asking them.

Well... in my program we all want to be NPs, but that's because it's a DE MSN program, so we're all pretty much focused on that career and our specialty. However, I took my prereqs at a CC that had a nursing program, and the vast majority of those students seemed content with being a RN. Maybe it's because they won't have a BSN and won't be eligible to apply to grad programs? Unless they do ADN to MSN or something. Who knows. A few of them were interested in becoming NPs at some point, but definitely didn't seem to be planning on transitioning away any time soon.

Also, lots of people "want" to do things at some vague point in the future. Whether or not they actually apply, go back to school, and earn a graduate degree after they earn their RN is a whole other kettle of fish.

Originally Posted by ChillyRN

In my graduating nursing class of 32, I think most of us said we wanted to be NPs, CNMs or CRNAs, lol. According to the alumni website, only one of us has. The percentage of those who want to go to graduate school and those that actually do is probably quite different. Probably similar to the number of high school seniors who say they are going to go the medical school compared with the number that actually do. Life sometimes just has a way of interfering with our plans!

This is very true. And will probably be what the OP sees once they are out of school.

Originally Posted by Daggum

Unfortunately, its true. A lot of people have stated that their reason for entering nursing school was to become a CRNA and that always seems to bug me a little.

I went to nursing school just to get into CRNA school. I see no problem with it. I still had to do my time as a nurse to get in. And I will say that a "good" nursing experience is marginally important to success in CRNA school ha.

Originally Posted by zenman

Well you know they have to in order to be a CRNA!

I'm around a lot of nursing students. I'll start asking them.

If there was a direct pathway to CRNA, more people would do it. And who would blame them? Nursing was the bane of my existence for the years I did it. I advise everyone I know NOT to be a nurse. It is important work, it is hard work, but it is just not worth it, to me, unless you want to go to CRNA and to a lesser extent NP. I honestly can't see/understand how anyone could or would want to be a staff nurse any longer than about 2 weeks let lone for the rest of their working life.

In the end, most people say it, most people don't actually do it. Which is good because CRNA schools are already letting in way more people than they should be. But that is a story for another day.

A lot of students in my BSN classes were just itching to get out of school and straight into a masters program (the masters students senior year all wanted to drift into a NP concentration). Most stated they wanted to be CNMs, NPs, CNS or of course CRNAs. The reality of course lies with a full time job and family. These constraints kill most of the ambition a year or two after graduation (many in my class were in their 30s+).

People are always idealistic while in school but change their opinions once they actually start getting a decent income, then they usually settle in the end. Your experience is not unique in any way and most of your friends will still end up being staff nurses.

I decided to finish med school pre-reqs while working part time as an RN. Now that is not common at all and I got decent flak for it...

When I started nursing school I originally thought I would go into L&D nursing and then eventually become a CNM (midwife). And back then, it wasn't about looking for an "alternative pathway to becoming a provider." It was simply a particular interest in that area of healthcare and that specific type of nursing role.

Well, during nursing school, I discovered that I really liked critical care and went that route. Though I did have vague plans to further my education in some capacity, I never really considered becoming an NP nor a CRNA (just not my cup of tea). The graduate nursing program that I gave the most serious consideration to was UCSF's clinical nurse specialist program specializing in critical care/trauma.

Obviously, I've made up my mind to do something rather different, so that's that. When I was in nursing school (8 years ago) I don't recall any of my classmates specifically planning to go the NP/CRNA/whatever route. Mainly we discussed what area we planned to work in (ICU, ER, Peds, L&D, etc.)

Incidentally, I've never gotten anything but positive comments, encouragement, and support from everyone at work regarding my current career/educational endeavors. I've never made it any secret.

I think it's a great idea for nursing students to consider furthering their education. I really respect the handful of staff (bedside) RNs that I work with that have their master's degree in nursing. The interest in higher education is not likely to cause/worsen a shortage of bedside nurses. It's the bullsh*t working conditions and compensation (in some locations).

Originally Posted by PrinceVersed

This is very true. And will probably be what the OP sees once they are out of school.



I went to nursing school just to get into CRNA school. I see no problem with it. I still had to do my time as a nurse to get in. And I will say that a "good" nursing experience is marginally important to success in CRNA school ha.



If there was a direct pathway to CRNA, more people would do it. And who would blame them? Nursing was the bane of my existence for the years I did it. I advise everyone I know NOT to be a nurse. It is important work, it is hard work, but it is just not worth it, to me, unless you want to go to CRNA and to a lesser extent NP. I honestly can't see/understand how anyone could or would want to be a staff nurse any longer than about 2 weeks let lone for the rest of their working life.

In the end, most people say it, most people don't actually do it. Which is good because CRNA schools are already letting in way more people than they should be. But that is a story for another day.

If you went to nursing school just to pursue CRNA, why not attempt to get into med school and apply for GAS residency?

out of the 60 who graduated with me (and) maybe 20 got a bsn and one other got an apn. Sooooo most say they will but few do.

The graduate-level nursing role that gets overlooked is the CNS. Some people (other healthcare workers and even a few nurses) I talk to don't even really know what they do, but honestly (IMO, of course) CNS is the most natural transition from staff nurse with regard to the types of skills you are using and the role you are functioning in, when compared with other graduate-nursing roles. It is more "nurse-like" and less "provider-like". I can see why it would bother you with CRNAs though (the somewhat unfair stereotype is that they are just in it for the money, which I guess is a big no-no in the culture of nurses, even if it is true for many people).

Originally Posted by Pleepl3us

If you went to nursing school just to pursue CRNA, why not attempt to get into med school and apply for GAS residency?

I did attempt to go to med school. I finished my pre med classes while working full time as a nurse. I even got interviews. However, my horrible MCAT score I made because I was both far too lazy and tired to prep well for held me back.

If I could have stomached the thought of being a staff nurse for another two years, I would have taken the MCAT again and reapplied. However, nothing, not even med school or a cool million dollars in cash, nothing, is worth working 2 more years as a staff nurse. So I applied to CRNA and very easily got in.

In the end, I did nursing because it was a "sure thing". I took a shot, albeit a feeble one, at med school and failed. Good for me that I had my sure thing nursing to fall back on haha.

Originally Posted by PrinceVersed

Nursing was the bane of my existence for the years I did it. I advise everyone I know NOT to be a nurse. It is important work, it is hard work, but it is just not worth it, to me, unless you want to go to CRNA and to a lesser extent NP. I honestly can't see/understand how anyone could or would want to be a staff nurse any longer than about 2 weeks let lone for the rest of their working life.

I'm hesitant to beat a dead horse, but would you mind elaborating on why you found your time as a nurse so displeasing? I'm mainly asking because you're the first person I've encountered who's had such a blunt, negative view of the profession (I'm not criticizing, just curious! Prospective BSN here). I'd really appreciate hearing about your experience with the field. Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hat

I ask this question in all seriousness. On rotations I've talked to dozens of nursing students. By and large very cool people whom I enjoy talking with. But one interesting thing I've been noticing is that when I ask them what they're planning to do after graduation, they almost invariably answer that they want to go to NP or CRNA school. Seriously probably 95% of them. Most don't even mention plans of what they want to do as an RN - the only interest is in becoming a provider.

Am I just getting a really skewed sample or is this the trend? Is it fair to say that any more, nursing school is more about an alternative path to being a provider than it is about nursing? And who will be doing the nursing job in 20 years if everyone becomes a provider?

Just something I've noticed and thought about, wondering if others have some perspectives.

It's much more prevalent than when I was a student. Back then, CRNAs weren't really heard of that much, and if you wanted to be an NP, you had to have significant experience. I remember seeing a flyer about an NP program that had started locally. It listed the requirements, and one was 5 years in medical/surgical or ICU. I remember thinking, "God, I'll never meet that requirement."

I think another reason people are going these routes is that hospitals are treating nurses like crap. I know someone will post here about California nurses and their large salaries. That is not the norm for most nurses. Going the advanced practice route give nurses a little more autonomy.

Who will provide nursing care in 20y? My guess is they'll keep dumbing things down until you have minimally educated people providing most of the care, except in a few areas. I don't think it will be pretty. Hope I die before I get old.

Originally Posted by psychQs

I'm hesitant to beat a dead horse, but would you mind elaborating on why you found your time as a nurse so displeasing? I'm mainly asking because you're the first person I've encountered who's had such a blunt, negative view of the profession (I'm not criticizing, just curious! Prospective BSN here). I'd really appreciate hearing about your experience with the field. Thanks very much.

Oh, I'm pretty much fed up with it as well. I've been sidelined because of a serious illness; it's quite probable that I will never return to work in a traditional nursing role, if I even get to work again. I was talking with my mother today, and I told her I didn't want to do patient care again. I'm fed up with running around with my hair on fire, tired of the customer service BS, tired of having more and more being shoved on us....Even just thinking about it makes me feel stressed.

It was so much better when I first started out. Things were simpler back then. People had respect for you. It was unusual to have extremely rude patients or family members. Documentation was simpler (and better). If you got certified in your specialty, it was a big deal. Now, you just get a shrug (and no differential anymore). I could go on, but I don't need to make myself any sicker.

Originally Posted by psychQs

I'm hesitant to beat a dead horse, but would you mind elaborating on why you found your time as a nurse so displeasing? I'm mainly asking because you're the first person I've encountered who's had such a blunt, negative view of the profession (I'm not criticizing, just curious! Prospective BSN here). I'd really appreciate hearing about your experience with the field. Thanks very much.

Oh my! Do you have all day? haha. I will speak my peace but keep in mind that this is just my OPINION of the hospital I worked at.

I worked for a money grubbing hospital that cared far more about making money than helping people, patient safety, or employee satisfaction. I worked in a CVICU in which I constantly had to take more patients than what was safe. Think immediate post op CABG still intubated, pt on IABP and a ton of gtts that would not lay flat, and just for fun throw in an over flowed suicide pt in 4pt restraints that is trying to kill everyone. Why did I had to do this? Because my hospital refused to hire any nurses.

80-90% of the patients acted like they were not in the hospital but rather at the holiday inn on vacation and that I was not a well trained nurse but a maid. They were unappreciative of everything I did for them and acted as if it was MY fault that they were in the hospital. They were hostile and nasty when asked to do anything that was for their own good.

Know it all family members who would complained constantly and would not listen to anything.

Dealing w administration people who had no idea what needed to be done to take care of patients yet they would constantly meddle and screw stuff up.

Doctors who would transfer us BS patients that were not critical enough to be in a CV just because they knew that the CV nurses wouldn't call and wake them up with dumb stuff.

Doctors that would not transfer our patients out of the unit because the hospital made more money for a CV bed.

Doctors that would do interventions on patients KNOWING that we have NO CV surgeon available and that if they messed up a coronary that the nearest CV surgeon was 2hr by car away.

The fact that I couldn't find a SPO2 cord that worked in my unit but the hospital could afford to throw a xmas party in which only admin went to.

Having to argue w the house supervisor about literally everything because she might have had the worst clinical judgment in the history of the world.

Because we had no staff, it was almost impossible to take off. And it was "mandatory" for us to work overtime..every week.

Cleaning up piss, puke, crap, blood, from a patient that was loathsome in every way.

Dealing w residents that try to intubate pts w the ETT backwards or use a yankauer because they were that clueless and poorly trained.

Having to spend 30min on the phone trying to explain to a resident why a pt not peeing in the past 5 hrs was a bad thing. (they had been in the ER that whole time I didn't watch them not urinate for that long haha)

Dealing w doctors that would not call you back or would not show up with their pt was coding. Saying things like "I got some things to do around the house and take a shower..Just have the ER doc do it and I'll make it around sometime tonight". Or doctor that would call you back.... drunk.

The constant addition of bureaucracy and BS added to every part of my job bc some admin had a "bright" idea. Having to chart the exact same thing in 5 different places.

Not ONCE in 4 years having an actual lunch break. I would have to eat at the nurses station. In fact, one time I had to eat while nearly constantly suctioning a particular patient out.

Taking care of patients that to any sane person w any medical knowledge knew was "dead". But they family would not let us stop coding them everyday bc the doctor told them "I can save him!". Wasting countless hours, efforts, monies, on gomers who had 0 quality of life. Or they had as much quality as say a pet rock.

The fact that our patients were not our patients. They did not come in because they were sick or dying. They were our customers and we should not treat them as patients but like someone who was shopping at Sears. The customer might always be right, but the patient rarely is.

I could go on for days. But in the end it came down to the fact that the working conditions were bad, the patients were unappreciative, and admin tried to handicap or screw you over at every pass just to squeeze out a few more dollars. It was a soul sucking job and I can name at least 100 other nurses that feel the same way. If you got into nursing to actually do the "right things" morally, ethically, then GOOD LUCK. It will be tough because its not healthcare, its McDonald's with IVs.

Sorry if my thoughts are a bit scattered. It's hard to put all the BS into words. haha.

Originally Posted by fab4fan

It's much more prevalent than when I was a student. Back then, CRNAs weren't really heard of that much, and if you wanted to be an NP, you had to have significant experience. I remember seeing a flyer about an NP program that had started locally. It listed the requirements, and one was 5 years in medical/surgical or ICU. I remember thinking, "God, I'll never meet that requirement."

I think another reason people are going these routes is that hospitals are treating nurses like crap. I know someone will post here about California nurses and their large salaries. That is not the norm for most nurses. Going the advanced practice route give nurses a little more autonomy.

Who will provide nursing care in 20y? My guess is they'll keep dumbing things down until you have minimally educated people providing most of the care, except in a few areas. I don't think it will be pretty. Hope I die before I get old.

I am 100% with you on this!!

Originally Posted by fab4fan

Oh, I'm pretty much fed up with it as well. I've been sidelined because of a serious illness; it's quite probable that I will never return to work in a traditional nursing role, if I even get to work again. I was talking with my mother today, and I told her I didn't want to do patient care again. I'm fed up with running around with my hair on fire, tired of the customer service BS, tired of having more and more being shoved on us....Even just thinking about it makes me feel stressed.

It was so much better when I first started out. Things were simpler back then. People had respect for you. It was unusual to have extremely rude patients or family members. Documentation was simpler (and better). If you got certified in your specialty, it was a big deal. Now, you just get a shrug (and no differential anymore). I could go on, but I don't need to make myself any sicker.

I am 100% with you on all of this too! Fab knows what is up!

Originally Posted by PrinceVersed

Oh my! Do you have all day? haha. I will speak my peace but keep in mind that this is just my OPINION of the hospital I worked at.

I worked for a money grubbing hospital that cared far more about making money than helping people, patient safety, or employee satisfaction. I worked in a CVICU in which I constantly had to take more patients than what was safe. Think immediate post op CABG still intubated, pt on IABP and a ton of gtts that would not lay flat, and just for fun throw in an over flowed suicide pt in 4pt restraints that is trying to kill everyone. Why did I had to do this? Because my hospital refused to hire any nurses.

80-90% of the patients acted like they were not in the hospital but rather at the holiday inn on vacation and that I was not a well trained nurse but a maid. They were unappreciative of everything I did for them and acted as if it was MY fault that they were in the hospital. They were hostile and nasty when asked to do anything that was for their own good.

Know it all family members who would complained constantly and would not listen to anything.

Dealing w administration people who had no idea what needed to be done to take care of patients yet they would constantly meddle and screw stuff up.

Doctors who would transfer us BS patients that were not critical enough to be in a CV just because they knew that the CV nurses wouldn't call and wake them up with dumb stuff.

Doctors that would not transfer our patients out of the unit because the hospital made more money for a CV bed.

Doctors that would do interventions on patients KNOWING that we have NO CV surgeon available and that if they messed up a coronary that the nearest CV surgeon was 2hr by car away.

The fact that I couldn't find a SPO2 cord that worked in my unit but the hospital could afford to throw a xmas party in which only admin went to.

Having to argue w the house supervisor about literally everything because she might have had the worst clinical judgment in the history of the world.

Because we had no staff, it was almost impossible to take off. And it was "mandatory" for us to work overtime..every week.

Cleaning up piss, puke, crap, blood, from a patient that was loathsome in every way.

Dealing w residents that try to intubate pts w the ETT backwards or use a yankauer because they were that clueless and poorly trained.

Having to spend 30min on the phone trying to explain to a resident why a pt not peeing in the past 5 hrs was a bad thing. (they had been in the ER that whole time I didn't watch them not urinate for that long haha)

Dealing w doctors that would not call you back or would not show up with their pt was coding. Saying things like "I got some things to do around the house and take a shower..Just have the ER doc do it and I'll make it around sometime tonight". Or doctor that would call you back.... drunk.

The constant addition of bureaucracy and BS added to every part of my job bc some admin had a "bright" idea. Having to chart the exact same thing in 5 different places.

Not ONCE in 4 years having an actual lunch break. I would have to eat at the nurses station. In fact, one time I had to eat while nearly constantly suctioning a particular patient out.

Taking care of patients that to any sane person w any medical knowledge knew was "dead". But they family would not let us stop coding them everyday bc the doctor told them "I can save him!". Wasting countless hours, efforts, monies, on gomers who had 0 quality of life. Or they had as much quality as say a pet rock.

The fact that our patients were not our patients. They did not come in because they were sick or dying. They were our customers and we should not treat them as patients but like someone who was shopping at Sears. The customer might always be right, but the patient rarely is.

I could go on for days. But in the end it came down to the fact that the working conditions were bad, the patients were unappreciative, and admin tried to handicap or screw you over at every pass just to squeeze out a few more dollars. It was a soul sucking job and I can name at least 100 other nurses that feel the same way. If you got into nursing to actually do the "right things" morally, ethically, then GOOD LUCK. It will be tough because its not healthcare, its McDonald's with IVs.

Sorry if my thoughts are a bit scattered. It's hard to put all the BS into words. haha.

This. Except I never had to eat my lunch while suctioning someone. I think I would have lost my lunch doing that.

We just had our last batch of nursing students finish up their rotation on my unit, and 4 out of the 5 students I spoke with wanted to go on for their NP. There was a nursing assistant too, and he told me all about wanting to be a CRNA. Onward and upward I guess.

I taught BSN students for 9 years and a couple of years in a row, none of them wanted to work on med-surg units, they all wanted critical care/er/ and yes many will say on the very first day of nursing school how they are going to be CRNAs. Prince Versed, I have similar feelings about hospital nursing, having worked med surg for 20+ years. I actually have felt sad/sorry for my students. It seems that the patients are sicker and the nurses have more to do, geez just giving meds on time is cumbersome with electronic computerized pyxis and admin keeps thinking up more policies that have to be documented.

Originally Posted by SailorNurse

I taught BSN students for 9 years and a couple of years in a row, none of them wanted to work on med-surg units, they all wanted critical care/er/ and yes many will say on the very first day of nursing school how they are going to be CRNAs. Prince Versed, I have similar feelings about hospital nursing, having worked med surg for 20+ years. I actually have felt sad/sorry for my students. It seems that the patients are sicker and the nurses have more to do, geez just giving meds on time is cumbersome with electronic computerized pyxis and admin keeps thinking up more policies that have to be documented.

You couldn't pay me 100 dollars an hour to do med-surg. It's so task oriented with meds and assessments stopping to analyze a patient's situation or critically think goes out the window.

Originally Posted by PrinceVersed

Not ONCE in 4 years having an actual lunch break. I would have to eat at the nurses station. In fact, one time I had to eat while nearly constantly suctioning a particular patient out.

^^ now there's a diet I won't be trying. </samanthajones>

Originally Posted by Dranger

You couldn't pay me 100 dollars an hour to do med-surg. It's so task oriented with meds and assessments stopping to analyze a patient's situation or critically think goes out the window.

I would not take a million a year to do ANY type of bedside nursing ever again. That is how much I hated it.

Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

^^ now there's a diet I won't be trying. </samanthajones>

The best part is that they were actually taking 30min out of each of my shifts for my "lunch break" that I NEVER got.

Having worked medsurg/ telemetry/ stepdown, I prefer CCU. more organized, less chaos, and you get to know your patients. CCU is a more controlled setting. medsurg can be a dangerous place to work. too many patients per RN.

yup, this thread is scaring me just a little lol

Originally Posted by pinkzebra

yup, this thread is scaring me just a little lol

Hey, some people like it! If not, you can do lots of other things. Like go to law school, police academy, live in a garbage can. All good options when compared to nursing.

But seriously, if you don't like it, try to be a NP or CRNA. Apparently, everyone is doing it...

It was strongly suggested that I obtain a BSN for job advancement last year. Technically, that currently makes me a nursing student, but I have absolutely no desire to be an "advanced" practice nurse. I'm not sure how people can continue going to nursing school. The BSN has been one of the most miserable and inane educational experiences I've yet to endure. IMHO of course.

Originally Posted by fab4fan

I think another reason people are going these routes is that hospitals are treating nurses like crap. I know someone will post here about California nurses and their large salaries. That is not the norm for most nurses. Going the advanced practice route give nurses a little more autonomy.

I missed you too.

Sounds like you guys need a strong union; like the one northern california nurses have.

My wife finishes her BSN in Dec. of this year. With any luck, I begin my ELMSN next year.

When they asked all the students how many plan on getting their CRNA or NP, everyone with 2 exceptions raised their hands.

Welcome to America where money trumps all. Don't blame the students for doing what's in their best interest.

Now, on an unrelated topic. I'm doing some research on use of Chlorhexidine Gluconate dressings in PICC lines. Know of any good articles?