Penn (Dean's Scholarship) vs. Columbia?

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Deposits in at both. Had heart set on Columbia + NYC + siblings moving up there. Overall Penn would be ~55K cheaper. Go.

Penn. It would be cheaper in terms of living costs as well (unless you meant you were living with your siblings).

Is $55k worth the company of your family?

Originally Posted by GobBluth

Penn. It would be cheaper in terms of living costs as well (unless you meant you were living with your siblings).

Is $55k worth the company of your family?

Penn for sure-- you save 55k*4= 220k. Both offer a great education. Also, Philadelphia's only a 2-hour bus ride to NYC anyway.

Originally Posted by Penny00

Penn for sure-- you save 55k*4= 220k. Both offer a great education. Also, Philadelphia's only a 2-hour bus ride to NYC anyway.

Just to clarify that's 55K total, not each year. And Gob (awesome show), family isn't quite the deciding factor as much as the opportunity to live in NYC.

Originally Posted by Wahoowah

Just to clarify that's 55K total, not each year. And Gob (awesome show), family isn't quite the deciding factor as much as the opportunity to live in NYC.

I'm sure the price difference will be >$55k with cost-of-living differences. I'd still go with Penn. It's cheaper, you don't have to get bunched together with the med students, it's a great school, you can visit NYC during your free time.

Originally Posted by Wahoowah

Just to clarify that's 55K total, not each year. And Gob (awesome show), family isn't quite the deciding factor as much as the opportunity to live in NYC.

Having lived in both cities, nothing compares to NYC. I also like Philly a lot and wanted to go to DS there, but ended up in NYC.

Stupid question, but I thought you can't hold deposits at both schools?

Originally Posted by carborn2

Stupid question, but I thought you can't hold deposits at both schools?

You can hold multiple deposits until the deadline is reached at which point you have to pick one.

Originally Posted by Wahoowah

Just to clarify that's 55K total, not each year. And Gob (awesome show), family isn't quite the deciding factor as much as the opportunity to live in NYC.

I'd still go with Penn. NYC is great, but you'll be really busy in dental school anyway. Also, Columbia's way up in washington heights which isn't really what people usually think of as NYC.

Might be biased because I went to Penn for undergrad, but I think philly's a great city.

In my opinion, the 55K difference over the four years isn't a large enough sum to be the deciding factor as to one way or the other. You can't go wrong with either choice. If after hearing from both you still have your heart set on Columbia, though, then I think you should go. If not, then the price difference is a positive on the side of Penn with making the decision. Best of luck with your decision.

Penn for sure, you're saving $55,000, that's an extra $55,000 in your pocket!

What if I'm interested in OMFS? Wouldn't the med curriculum at Columbia provide an extra advantage in terms of scoring well on USMLE and admissions to those programs?

I say go to Columbia, Penn is great for specialized but i think Columbia does it a little better. I think Columbia is the right way to go if you want to be in OMFS, plus living in New York is really something everyone should experience in their lifetime. You just can't beat what NYC can offers

If it was Penn or Columbia, I'd probably pick Columbia.

But if it's Penn with a Dean's scholarship or Columbia, I'd pick Penn. Both are great for specializing, and you shouldn't have a problem specializing in OMFS at either. You could go to Penn for d-school and save 55k, and then go to Columbia for OMFS residency when you don't have to pay tuition.

I think this is a decision you have to make. You have to decide if saving money is important or the other factors you mentioned are more important.
If it helps- you will pay it all off in the end regardless if you are +/- $55,000.
Also, I think you should make a decision soon. I kind of feel bad for someone who probably wanted a spot in one of the two schools you are holding seats in but is currently on the waitlist....It may not be true...and it might be true. Just something to think about.

Both institutions are phenomenal, but an ivy league school cannot compare with a non-ivy. Upenn. The fact that the better school is cheaper is even better. Living in the city isn't all it's cut out to be.

I would recommend you tour the two campuses. Location and price is your determinant for school selection.

Originally Posted by TheToothsayer

Both institutions are phenomenal, but an ivy league school cannot compare with a non-ivy. Upenn. The fact that the better school is cheaper is even better. Living in the city isn't all it's cut out to be.

I would recommend you tour the two campuses. Location and price is your determinant for school selection.

Not only is your biases toward "ivy league" schools incorrect but also is your statement. Columbia and Penn are both indeed Ivy league schools.

To OP: Remember it is 55,000+interest+cheaper housing. I tell myself everyday that saving that kind of money is worth it. Once you actually see bills coming in you will appreciate a cheaper option. Take it now while you can.

P.S. Amtrak is right next to Penn campus, and the express train can take you to NYC in less than an hr/15mins. You'll still see your family whenever you really need to.

Originally Posted by Wahoowah

What if I'm interested in OMFS? Wouldn't the med curriculum at Columbia provide an extra advantage in terms of scoring well on USMLE and admissions to those programs?

I had an opportunity to chitchat with a AF dentist who went to Penn. He said that almost everyone in his class ended up specializing. I don't know much about Columbia to make a comparison, but you are smart enough to get a scholarship from Penn, I'm sure you will be able to stay in top class ranks.

I think NYC is good and all. but i don't think a dental student won't have a lot of time to fully explore/enjoy the city. Maybe use some of that 55k to go on a trip to NYC for a week??

It sounds like you really want to live in NYC. I'd pay $55k for four years of that (and a bonus of being close to family).

You would be saving MUCH more than ~$55k by going to upenn. Living costs in NYC are just out of this world ridiculous.. unless you want to commute a long way every day. The rent, food, etc... they all add up to be a lot. I'm not sure how much the living costs are around upenn's dental school but I'm sure it's better than Columbia (and the commute too). Just my 2 cents. =]

Plus, like someone else mentioned above, you can always get your D.D.S. at upenn and then migrate over to columbia to do your OMFS. I feel like going to dental school at upenn would only put you at a negligible disadvantage, if that, for an OMFS program compared to someone who went to columbia.

No matter how much older you get, NYC will always seem unnecessarily expensive..so isn't it better to enjoy it at 20 than when I'm 30 years+? Also, Columbia's OMFS program takes two residents per year, (one is usually an alum) so coming back here post-grad is a lot easier said than done...I'm still 50/50 though. I appreciate your thoughts! Keep them coming!

You'll be in far more debt than you'd like if you go there. 55k is tuition costs, not living costs. And for every dollar you borrow, you're paying 2x back in interest. Just visit your siblings, Dschool will be long anyways.

I was fortunate enough to have the same option you have now around this time last year and as someone who plans on also doing OMFS and taking the NBME, I would definitely go to Columbia over Penn. Don't get me wrong....they are both fantastic schools that will help you in any specialization if that's what you choose. However, I strongly believe the med school curriculum at Columbia is going to be a huge advantage for the NBME relative to most other schools.

Thanks for your input everyone. If anyone was wondering I think I am going to go with Columbia. Despite the cost I think its a better fit for me and living in the city will be a learning experience in itself. Someone on Penn's waitlist is in for some good news

Personally I'd go to Columbia. I believe Penn might have the better clinical curriculum, but Columbia has med school classes plus gives you the chance to live in New York City. I'd only do that once - when I'm young.

You only get to go to dental school once.

Columbia is pass/fail and has a smaller class. You can get to know your professors and increase likelihood of obtaining great LOR for applying to OMFS. Medical school curriculum can only help you with USMLE. I'd choose Columbia.

I do agree with others that you are gaining happiness for now (the next four years) but you will be paying for it later on, and in fact pay very dearly for it. You might have to hold off on your life for a couple years more than if you were to go to UPenn but I think the advantages of Columbia are well worth the time.

Originally Posted by dantemac

Personally I'd go to Columbia. I believe Penn might have the better clinical curriculum, but Columbia has med school classes plus gives you the chance to live in New York City. I'd only do that once - when I'm young.

See even UPenn students advise you to go to Columbia. At least, I think he goes to UPenn.

Originally Posted by Wahoowah

Thanks for your input everyone. If anyone was wondering I think I am going to go with Columbia. Despite the cost I think its a better fit for me and living in the city will be a learning experience in itself. Someone on Penn's waitlist is in for some good news

Are you an applicant from UVA and do you care to post up your stats?

Sorry for multiple posts but check out this thread I found for you. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=94442
It was originally started by a 2001 applicant who was indecisive between Penn and UoP. After almost 6 years, he replied in 2007 and recounted his opinions of UPenn after he had graduated. It's interesting to see his perception change from when he sent in his deposit to after he graduated.
Basically it's this:

Originally Posted by vankras

I like this thread because I started it about 4 years ago when i was applying to dental school. I just got an email today saying it was replied to. I am now about to graduate, but might not be, because penn is so screwed up. The requirements are very high (which is good), but it is very disorganized (which makes things a lot harder than they have to be). If i had to do it again I would look at it like this:

1) penn gets me where i need to go
2) if i didn't have to, i would never come here.

don't let people sugar coat it. in response to that 1st year penn student's thread, who in reality, does not know about the real deal here, i had a few thoughts about what i have seen in the past 3 and half years.

I believe it is more tolerable at Penn because they do such a great job scheduling the tests. --- Not any better than any where else. Not really a factor


We have a test every week, and they are spread out perfectly so that you have exactly, and just barely, enough time to study for each test; therefore, we are always slightly stressed but never overwhelmed. --- hahaha

I couldn't imagine a better set up, and when I can, the teachers are very receptive to adapting it for the following year. The curriculum is reviewed every year with a major review every three. I know that at UOP it is set up in a more traditional manner.

---I was on the curriculum committee at this school. In reality, the students don't change anything that the faculty does not want changed.

We have no trouble getting patients or graduating on time.
I think your intentions are good. But this is not true at all. If your definition of no trouble is a tremendous amount of trouble, then i take it back, it is totally true.

If you are considering specializing there is no doubt that the school prepares you, and the name helps.

And finally, here we have it. the reason to come to penn. and yes, this is why you would come here. options. more people get into specialty programs here. and if that is what you want out of a d-school, that is why this school is good.

I also liked this quote, "Everyone in the dental world knows that graduating from an Ivy-League school doesn't mean squat in the real world. It's not like medicine or law where the Ivy-League distinction carries weight, in dentistry, hand-skills and people-skills dominate."

Originally Posted by Stacker

You only get to go to dental school once.

Columbia is pass/fail and has a smaller class. You can get to know your professors and increase likelihood of obtaining great LOR for applying to OMFS. Medical school curriculum can only help you with USMLE. I'd choose Columbia.

I do agree with others that you are gaining happiness for now (the next four years) but you will be paying for it later on, and in fact pay very dearly for it. You might have to hold off on your life for a couple years more than if you were to go to UPenn but I think the advantages of Columbia are well worth the time.

Incorrect. Columbia dental is pass fail honors. Only the med school is pass fail.

Also Washington heights isn't exactly the city, it's 25min from upper west side by subway, an hour from most of downtown, anywhere on the east side etc

I can drive to NYC from Philly in about an hour. Maybe two if traffic is terrible. You can catch a $1 bus from downtown Philly to downtown NYC and spend the whole weekend there.

Think of how much more fun you can have with $55,000...

I don't understand why the OP is just comparing tuition differences. Cost of attendance is what matters at the end of the day.

The common arguments made about having an easy exam schedule and robust clinical program are good but sugar-coated. As for easy exam schedule, dental school is not meant to be easy. The few students I talked to basically said that is a myth. As for the clinic, the students said third year can be hectic because there are not enough seats when you enter clinic. Again, expect to fight over seats at any dental school.