Pre-requisites at a community college

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Originally Posted by shinbeats

Your comments are outright disgusting, the fact that you would put a veteran down like that for not agreeing with you is uncalled for. You talk a lot of **** for someone with ****ty stats, no MCAT score and no acceptances to even a DO school let alone MD school. At least he took the MCAT, had a GPA way better than yours and now you're mad because he made a valid point so you started with low blows. Worry about yourself right now mate, he's going to be a MD but you can't say the same can you?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=726346

I didn't put him down. I said he got accepted for being a veteran. His gpa was so low that he wouldn't haven't gotten in without the military. Learn to read. And no, his gpa is not higher. Mine is. Don't post where I started post my recent coursework too being the first time I took science. I'm registered for the mcat, and of course I haven't even been accepted into a DO school (who is putting who down?) Because I haven't even applied to one. You're such a sorry being.

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Originally Posted by flodhi1

Thanks did you go over my transcript or something?

You posted your stats. Do you want me to quote them? c3.19 and s3.05.

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Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

You posted your stats. Do you want me to quote them? c3.19 and s3.05.

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Let me quote it for you here we go:-

Originally Posted by flodhi1

Year BCPM AO Total
Freshman 1.50 (10 credits) 2.80 (15 credits) 2.28 (*25 credits*)
Sophomore 1.93 (14 credits) 3.38 (16 credits) 2.70 (*30 credits*)
Junior 3.15 (25 credits) 3.00 (3 credits) 3.14 (*28 credits*)
Senior 3.60 (52 credits!) 3,77 (9 credits) 3.62 (**61 credits**)

So as you can see I had a rough start in the beginning. It was mostly because I was active duty in the Infantry of the Marine Corp working (6 AM- 6 PM) shifts every weekday. I would take classes in the evenings and literally had no time to do homework but tried to stay devoted to school as much as I could (clearly did a ****ty job). According to the community college I had a 3.2 but it's showing up so low according to AMCAS because I failed Calc 1&2 simply because I was unable to do homework most of the time. Retook the classes and got A's in some of them. When I got into a 4 year school I really got my stuff together, I was out of the military and I was getting straight A's in most of my core, upper division and pre-reqs
A's in (Infectious Disease, Organic chem 1&2, Human Physiology, Physics 1 &2, Biochemistry 1&2, General Genetics, Ecology etc....). My last 30 credits have pretty much been a 3.9 GPA.

Can you explain to me how I "barely passed science classes" when my pre-req GPA is > 3.6 and I got As in upper-division science classes are you telling me getting As in Organic chems, Physics and Biochems is barely passing sciences? haha okay man whatever you say.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

Wait, aren't you that same guy who was arguing with me earlier about the difficulty of Chemistry but you had a 3.05 sGPA as opposed to my 3.69?

Forgive me for saying a subject is easy to the almighty 3.69 being. Yes Chemistry is easy, I got A-s in both General chemistry classes and it also showed on my MCAT when I got a 12 on the Physical Sciences (which was heavy with Chemistry passages). You're trying way too hard to put me down, you've tried to do it before multiple times because I tried to help individuals out and our opinions did not match but that's okay Marines have tough skin. Either way good luck on your MCAT and application cycle. Just make sure if and when you do become a physician not to put down your patients if they disagree with you or share an opinion that is not to your liking because that my friend would defy the purpose of being a physician.

Originally Posted by EdLongshanks

...

So, although I agree with you that a CC is sufficient for academic purposes, if i am ever an adcomm, I will reject any applicant whose answer to the CC question is "to save money." I will conclude that their priorities are severely mixed up.

Wow, harsh.

Sometimes the need to save money is huge and warranted, not everyone is living off mommy and daddy's money going to college, even if they are getting financial aid.

i.e. If you already have your Bachelors degree and are getting your prerequisites done post baccalaureate, lets say by them selves using no formal program. I know a lot of people, my self included, that would prefer to pay say $300 a class at their local community college than $4400 per class at their local university, as is the price right now around me. That's almost a $3000 savings that can be used somewhere else, like paying bills.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

I didn't put him down. I said he got accepted for being a veteran. His gpa was so low that he wouldn't haven't gotten in without the military. Learn to read. And no, his gpa is not higher. Mine is. Don't post where I started post my recent coursework too being the first time I took science. I'm registered for the mcat, and of course I haven't even been accepted into a DO school (who is putting who down?) Because I haven't even applied to one. You're such a sorry being.

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You're debasing the hard work and academic acheivement of others. In the end of the day you're the sorry being that will amount to nothing. You're not going to get into medical school trust me the interviewer will detect the cockiness in your attitude and laugh at the 2.77 oh wait your recent academic hardship pulled your GPA up to a 3.2? at least veterans that are serving and going to school have an excuse what was yours? were you just plain stupid? lol

Originally Posted by shinbeats

You're debasing the hard work and academic acheivement of others. In the end of the day you're the sorry being that will amount to nothing. You're not going to get into medical school trust me the interviewer will detect the cockiness in your attitude and laugh at the 2.77 oh wait your recent academic hardship pulled your GPA up to a 3.2? at least veterans that are serving and going to school have an excuse what was yours? were you just plain stupid? lol

Very soon you'll be proven wrong, and obviously stupid was what I was if I've kept a 3.8 (took 2 non-science) in my post-bacc, right? Lol. Thanks for putting yourself in a position where you'll soon regret.

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Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

Very soon you'll be proven wrong, and obviously stupid was what I was if I've kept a 3.8 (took 2 non-science) in my post-bacc, right? Lol. Thanks for putting yourself in a position where you'll soon regret.

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Even if you do get accepted to a MD miraculously, do you really think it will be because your hard work or academic achievements? nah. It will probably be because you're a URM. Your cumulative GPA is way below what medical schools accept. How does it feel to give you a taste of your own medicine? I love how you couldn't even respond back to the Marine guy. Hey guys I'm a really helpful sdn member oh by the way I have a 3.69 and you barely passed any sciences classes lol what a douche bag.

I don't know why this thread turned into a p... match, but i'll put in my 2 cents

remember that you are not being judged in isolation and just based on your own credentials and qualities. each school gets at least 3-5k or up to 10k+ applicants. your application will be in the middle of a huge pile, and you will be compared to all the other applicants. you have to do whatever it takes to make yourself stand out and shine next to the other applicants.

you have to keep asking the question "all other things being equal" does this particular thing make me less, same, or more competitive.

all other things being equal, having your science prereqs at a CC makes you less competitive.

CC courses are usually good for getting the 'general ed' requirements of your degree out of the way. so you take your english 101, humanities, social studies etc at CC, then transfer those credits to your 4-yr Uni, and then take the science courses and other things related to your degree at the Uni.

the science courses and med school prereqs are a big part of what the med schools judge you on and compare you with the other applicants. you want to do those at a good Uni so your A puts you over and above the other applicants who did their prereq at a CC. if you did your other "filler" credits at the CC they won't care, but if you did your gen chem, orgo, phys, and bio at CC, then you're not going to look so hot next to the other applicants.


just my opinion, could be wrong, do your own DD.

Stony Brook can be snotty place. SUNY Old Westbury was much easier to deal with as a non degree student.

Originally Posted by flodhi1

Let me quote it for you here we go:-



Can you explain to me how I "barely passed science classes" when my pre-req GPA is > 3.6 and I got As in upper-division science classes are you telling me getting As in Organic chems, Physics and Biochems is barely passing sciences? haha okay man whatever you say.

Nah yo according to Triage none of those are Science classes lol by the way man I looked at your original thread I must say man very impressive come back. Don't let this ****ing douech bag degrade you like that he doesn't know what it takes to be working 15-16 hours a day in the military and going to school. He's mommy and daddies boy that sits around on his laptop studying all day dreaming about going to medical school lol pathetic. You did very well in a lot of impressive classes that I will be the first to admit I didn't even get A's in. Orgos, Physics and Biochems are the most challenging undergrad courses and medical schools know that so you got accepted because they know you have what it takes to become a physician. By the way thanks for serving.

Originally Posted by startoverat40

i don't know why this thread turned into a p... Match, but i'll put in my 2 cents

remember that you are not being judged in isolation and just based on your own credentials and qualities. Each school gets at least 3-5k or up to 10k+ applicants. Your application will be in the middle of a huge pile, and you will be compared to all the other applicants. You have to do whatever it takes to make yourself stand out and shine next to the other applicants.

You have to keep asking the question "all other things being equal" does this particular thing make me less, same, or more competitive.

All other things being equal, having your science prereqs at a cc makes you less competitive.

Cc courses are usually good for getting the 'general ed' requirements of your degree out of the way. So you take your english 101, humanities, social studies etc at cc, then transfer those credits to your 4-yr uni, and then take the science courses and other things related to your degree at the uni.

The science courses and med school prereqs are a big part of what the med schools judge you on and compare you with the other applicants. You want to do those at a good uni so your a puts you over and above the other applicants who did their prereq at a cc. If you did your other "filler" credits at the cc they won't care, but if you did your gen chem, orgo, phys, and bio at cc, then you're not going to look so hot next to the other applicants.


Just my opinion, could be wrong, do your own dd.

+1

Should this be locked since it has taken a turn from the original intent?

Originally Posted by confidence1985

I organize workshops at community college workshops about applying to medical school for the last two years and it is sponsored by the UC school of medicine. The stat that they always tell me is that 15-20 percent earn an associate degree at a community college before applying to medical school and 70-80 percent of medical students there have taken courses at the community college. I know most schools do not care when it comes to pre-reqs but a few schools do care when it comes to organic chemistry and upper divisions. Besides that I would not worry about it but if you are like other people said just contact the schools. Your stats look amazing though and if you get similar grades you shouldn't worry one bit. Also if you get a letter of recommendation from your community college teacher it will not be look as a lesser letter in any way. Schools don't care what school the letter comes from just what it says about you unless the letter is from someone super famous. good luck.

This is a slightly different situation though as a traditional student who starts at a CC will go on to a 4-year to get a degree. Many nontraditional students who already have a 4-year and are following it with an informal post-bacc at at a CC. If their original 4 year was not in science, they don't necessarily have a chance for additional upper level courses. Perhaps even worse, nontrads who have some earlier mediocre premed work at a 4 year school and then do an informal CC post-bacc may not be that impressive to an adcom.

Additionally California med schools seem to accept California CC as equal to Cal State level of rigor. In New York, even though the CC's are technically part of the SUNY system, they are not viewed as highly.

if you have lets say a degree in music, and you never took any science courses, and now you want to apply for med school, then I would say try to find the highest quality school that you can afford. maybe you can afford to take 1 course at a time at a 4-yr Uni. if you rush and take all your prereqs at a low reputation CC just so you can apply sooner, you might be shooting yourself in the foot, cause adcoms might think you're trying to take the fast/easy route. you might be better off postponing your application so you can take your prereqs at a reputable school.

you can also take one or two courses at the CC, and then see how difficult it felt. if you think you got an easy A, then it's likely that you did, and likely that your CC isn't going to make you look good. but if you felt like you had to work really hard for your A, then your CC might be good enough. you can also call up some adcoms and ask them about particular CC you're considering. ask them if they look +/- on that CC.

People are making a hard thing out of a simple one. A lot of pre-meds have opinions about the value of CC credits. These opinions are worthless, since the pre-meds will not be accepting or rejecting you.

Adcom's opinions about CC credits are what matter. These facts are known

1) Some Adcoms do not look down on CC credits if the MCAT score is high
2) Some Adcoms look down on CC credits.
3) You do not choose which Adcomms will review your application.
4) You do not choose your MCAT score.

Given those facts, someone with the intelligence to get into medical school and a choice on where to go to school should be able to reason his way out of this terrible, terrible, terrible conundrum.

Now, for my opinion. Once you are in medical school, you will discover that most people cannot get through it without a total commitment. There are some brilliant people who can slide through and become a PCP without much effort, and, of course, the pre-meds on this board are all that brilliant. For the occasional pre-med who is less than a candidate for Ron Howards "A Beautiful Mind", however, a solid commitment is necessary. Someone who values a couple thousand dollars more than his application to medical school displays, to me, a real lack of motivation.

Originally Posted by shinbeats

Even if you do get accepted to a MD miraculously, do you really think it will be because your hard work or academic achievements? nah. It will probably be because you're a URM. Your cumulative GPA is way below what medical schools accept. How does it feel to give you a taste of your own medicine? I love how you couldn't even respond back to the Marine guy. Hey guys I'm a really helpful sdn member oh by the way I have a 3.69 and you barely passed any sciences classes lol what a douche bag.

Unlike most people, I don't care how I get there or if what people think of how I get there. I just care about getting there to do what I want. Nice try though.

Originally Posted by flodhi1

Forgive me for saying a subject is easy to the almighty 3.69 being. Yes Chemistry is easy, I got A-s in both General chemistry classes and it also showed on my MCAT when I got a 12 on the Physical Sciences (which was heavy with Chemistry passages). You're trying way too hard to put me down, you've tried to do it before multiple times because I tried to help individuals out and our opinions did not match but that's okay Marines have tough skin. Either way good luck on your MCAT and application cycle. Just make sure if and when you do become a physician not to put down your patients if they disagree with you or share an opinion that is not to your liking because that my friend would defy the purpose of being a physician.

LOL conveniently it was chemistry intensive too. Having studied MCAT Chemistry vs. College Chemistry, they are very different. College chemistry is calculation intensive and lab intensive. MCAT Chemistry is more about interpreting the general passages.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

LOL conveniently it was chemistry intensive too. Having studied MCAT Chemistry vs. College Chemistry, they are very different. College chemistry is calculation intensive and lab intensive. MCAT Chemistry is more about interpreting the general passages.

Whatever you say man. I think this thread needs to get back on topic or get closed.

In the same boat here. The surprising thing (or not) is that a lot of students I know tend to follow the 2-year cc transfer to 4-year university to complete the bachelor degree. I think it is still better to complete all 4 year but hey 2 year is a lot of money saved and if you ask me I would rather stay at home and go to a local cc for first two years to save some bucks before moving out. Some of my friends actually get to very prestigious medical school so yeah I think it is up to us in the end whether we "got" the stuff down or not.

Originally Posted by MedPsy82

Wow, harsh.

Sometimes the need to save money is huge and warranted, not everyone is living off mommy and daddy's money going to college, even if they are getting financial aid.

i.e. If you already have your Bachelors degree and are getting your prerequisites done post baccalaureate, lets say by them selves using no formal program. I know a lot of people, my self included, that would prefer to pay say $300 a class at their local community college than $4400 per class at their local university, as is the price right now around me. That's almost a $3000 savings that can be used somewhere else, like paying bills.

Totally agree with you there mate. 1st priority should be surviving not becoming a doctor lol

Folks, let's try to stay in topic and keep it civil. This is a perennial question and I think many people are interested in the thread.

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This thread has good discussions between CC, 4-year and postbacc programs and why people did what.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=879435

Originally Posted by startoverat40

if you have lets say a degree in music, and you never took any science courses, and now you want to apply for med school, then I would say try to find the highest quality school that you can afford. maybe you can afford to take 1 course at a time at a 4-yr Uni. if you rush and take all your prereqs at a low reputation CC just so you can apply sooner, you might be shooting yourself in the foot, cause adcoms might think you're trying to take the fast/easy route. you might be better off postponing your application so you can take your prereqs at a reputable school.

Actually I have advise the opposite for students. The less of a past academic science "hole" that a student has to climb out, the more reasonable a CC can be. Here are three student scenarios

#1) Good academic background in non-science like music
no academic "hole" to get out of
Good CC work in Science
Good MCAT
Overall consistent academic pattern supported by above

#2) decent academic background with some so-so prereqs
a partial academic "hole" to climb out of
Good CC work in Science
reasonable MCAT
inconsistent pattern above

#3) poor academic background in science
big academic hole to climb out of
Good CC in science
Good MCAT
inconsistent pattern

but also remember
1) CC can be a very minor to major negative competitive factor
2) do not consider factors in isolation, as so many student do, but in the overall application that you will submit. Do all the pieces support a pattern of motivation, commitment, and achievement.
3) The logistics of life such as budget, job, family, schedule, will impact your prep.. Better to take classes at a CC than no classes at all.

Will attending a CC for prerequisites prevent you from attending medical school?
No.

Will some schools bar entry purely based on the fact that you took prereqs at a CC?
Yes, but very few.

I took some of my courses at a CC, and in no way shape or form do I feel disadvantaged. If anything, I felt like attending a CC enhanced my school experience.

I was a high-school drop out and to be honest, after the military, I was a little intimidated by giving up my career to go back to school full-time due to my past failures. The combination of cheap tuition and more approachable professors was win/win. I became president of the chemistry club, was an ACS chemistry student of the year, a supplemental instructor, peer tutor, student council member, and networked with professors and staff.

My successes at a CC provided me with the motivation and self-esteem to transition to the next level with ease and opened many doors in the process. For instance, this summer I am interning at NIH. I love the atmosphere at NIH and am excited to be apart of the organization, even if it is only for a few months. For my fall research, I am hoping to secure a research position at Johns Hopkins. Not bad for someone who started at a CC, right?

Take your prereqs somewhere that is convenient for you, but work hard to distinguish yourself and you will not be disappointed with the results.

As for this comment:

Like you getting in with barely passing science classes because you are a veteran

That's foolish. My advice for you is, stop complaining about others and focus on what you can improve about yourself, because you're wasting time/energy being hateful/jealous of others.

Originally Posted by gonnif

This is a slightly different situation though as a traditional student who starts at a CC will go on to a 4-year to get a degree. Many nontraditional students who already have a 4-year and are following it with an informal post-bacc at at a CC. If their original 4 year was not in science, they don't necessarily have a chance for additional upper level courses. Perhaps even worse, nontrads who have some earlier mediocre premed work at a 4 year school and then do an informal CC post-bacc may not be that impressive to an adcom.

Additionally California med schools seem to accept California CC as equal to Cal State level of rigor. In New York, even though the CC's are technically part of the SUNY system, they are not viewed as highly.

I'm actually finishing my 1st semester at Suny Suffolk CC, and so far with a strong GPA. I have already received my Bachelors in Finance back in 07, so I was hoping a strong gpa + strong mcats + ECs will prove me worthy. I was a little discouraged though, when I emailed Suny Stony Brook about CC courses, and they did advise me that they do look down on CC courses. The crappy thing is, I'm already registered for taking more advanced Chem classes this Summer, and Org. Chem 1 this fall. I was planning on taking all my pre-req's here, due to availability in scheduling + finances. I will look into Suny Old Westbury. There is Suny Farmingdale near me, but I'm not sure if med schools will look down upon Suny Farmingdale courses as well.

The problem with taking such a legendary and infamous course (and premed benchmark) as O-Chem at a Community College is that there will always be an asterisk next to it on your application. On a few other threads, adcoms admit that knowledge of OChem really won't play a role in future medical practice. Instead, what I'm hearing is that the course is a quintessential hard-science that challenges even the most gifted of premed students and is a reasonably accurate indicator of how a student will handle gigantic, fast-paced hard-science lectures once in med school. If you get an A from a CC, it seems reasonable to at least wonder, "Would that be a B from a four-year?" Or if you get a B, some might think, "I wonder if he took the class at a CC since he knew he'd struggle in a larger university lecture."

Obviously, anyone who's taken a few college level classes knows that the teacher, more than anything else, determines the difficulty of a course. And by extension, if they use a relative curve, then the student intelligence will play a role as well. God knows I've received a few As from an elite liberal arts college for sleeping through class and had to work my butt off at a CC for an A in a similar class. But the general assumption is that this is the exception.

You have to ask yourself: In an insanely, ludicrously, absurdly, perhaps unfairly, and increasingly, competitive annual med school app cycle, don't you want to eliminate every opportunity an adcom might have (MIGHT have) for rejecting you? You have the choice to attend a great state system, to me it seems like an absolute no-brainer, if for no other reason than to give yourself comm-college-prejudice-insurance. Take as many as you can at the four year. Why give them any reason to choose another candidate over you?

Originally Posted by flodhi1

Thanks did you go over my transcript or something?

TriagePremed, can you explain your rationale from your last post? Were you saying it is OK to have a low GPA as long as you're a veteran? I'm not trying to stir the pot, its an honest question. Regardless even though all my pre reqs are at the CC, I'm going to get the best grades I can regardless. I have taken classes at the University and CC locally.

Through experience I found that having teachers that showed that they care meant more than driving to a University. I'm not saying that all University teachers don't care, I just got a better vibe from CC teachers. If I don't get in to a particular school because they don't like CC classes then oh well. Another reason I like the CC scene is that I feel there is more non-traditional students that I can relate to. Anyone else feel that way?

Can anyone post the best CC class thread on here or does someone have the list of colleges that frown on CC classes? Yes, I know I can search or call each school individually but I don't have time for that (studying for physics and chem finals).

I guess Triage's account is now on hold so I may not get an answer to my question. Who can judge really? Maybe he took a sip of haterade instead of gaterade before adding to this thread. Honest mistake SDN.

Originally Posted by Spurg

Can anyone post the best CC class thread on here or does someone have the list of colleges that frown on CC classes? Yes, I know I can search or call each school individually but I don't have time for that (studying for physics and chem finals).

What is worth having never comes easy. (Sorry I couldn't resist! )

Well played Shotyme, well played. Between my physics and chemistry I'll have to do some digging. Then I'll post for the benefit of the group. No big deal.

I'm in a similar position of trying to figure out what is best, and I am just sticking with the 4yr. I just decided, "well, what's the difference in $5,000 or so when I will get stuck with $160,000+ in loans." I would rather have the peace of mind knowing that I am taking my prereqs at a place deemed acceptable than taking a chance on the CC. Because, let's face it, going through route and applying is risky enough, I would like to try and control as many variables as possibles.

Originally Posted by Spurg

TriagePremed, can you explain your rationale from your last post? Were you saying it is OK to have a low GPA as long as you're a veteran? I'm not trying to stir the pot, its an honest question. Regardless even though all my pre reqs are at the CC, I'm going to get the best grades I can regardless. I have taken classes at the University and CC locally.

Through experience I found that having teachers that showed that they care meant more than driving to a University. I'm not saying that all University teachers don't care, I just got a better vibe from CC teachers. If I don't get in to a particular school because they don't like CC classes then oh well. Another reason I like the CC scene is that I feel there is more non-traditional students that I can relate to. Anyone else feel that way?

Can anyone post the best CC class thread on here or does someone have the list of colleges that frown on CC classes? Yes, I know I can search or call each school individually but I don't have time for that (studying for physics and chem finals).

Since Triage was unable to give you a response let me respond. It is never okay to have a low GPA or MCAT score. You will have to explain any blemishes but extenuating circumstances mixed with upward trend do help your case. For example a veteran working in the military full time and also going to school full time while facing deployments might have an explanation for bad grades. Even though it's not okay SOME obviously not all ADCOM will be forgiving towards that veteran. It is a misnomer that veterans get it easy and automatically get accepted. I know plenty of veterans that were unable to get into medical school. Being a veteran will strengthen your application by adding life experiences but it will not walk you into medical school if you are undeserving of being accepted. Please don't let Triage's misinformed post mislead you into believing anything else.

Originally Posted by Spurg

I'm not saying that all University teachers don't care, I just got a better vibe from CC teachers. If I don't get in to a particular school because they don't like CC classes then oh well. Another reason I like the CC scene is that I feel there is more non-traditional students that I can relate to. Anyone else feel that way?

This is actually a good reason to take the courses at the university. Part of the issue is that learning in a giant cold lecture hall is often much different from the cuddly 25-person CC classroom. Part of the Uni preference comes from an interest in seeing how college students perform in a situation that is similar to medical school. Generally speaking, four-years are more selective, meaning greater classmate competition when it comes time to curve the OChem exam, and a 250 person Biology lecture at OSU is much more similar an experience to a 250 person medical school lecture than the cozy CC raise-your-hand-if-you-need-me-to-slow-down atmosphere. I'm not saying the former is a better model for effective education. But I'm pointing out that many schools prefer the big lecture for precisely the reasons you're complaining about. It's part of the preparation for what's ahead...

Originally Posted by Spurg

Can anyone post the best CC class thread on here or does someone have the list of colleges that frown on CC classes? Yes, I know I can search or call each school individually but I don't have time for that (studying for physics and chem finals).

There have been a bunch of threads started on just this topic in the last few months. Do a search for them.

Great point zoo, I never thought about it that way. Everytime I'm on this site I'm learning something new. If it comes down to it I'll try take genetics,Bio chem and few others at the University to better prepare for the Med school atmosphere. Thanks for the input

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Originally Posted by Zoopeda

The problem with taking such a legendary and infamous course (and premed benchmark) as O-Chem at a Community College is that there will always be an asterisk next to it on your application. On a few other threads, adcoms admit that knowledge of OChem really won't play a role in future medical practice. Instead, what I'm hearing is that the course is a quintessential hard-science that challenges even the most gifted of premed students and is a reasonably accurate indicator of how a student will handle gigantic, fast-paced hard-science lectures once in med school. If you get an A from a CC, it seems reasonable to at least wonder, "Would that be a B from a four-year?" Or if you get a B, some might think, "I wonder if he took the class at a CC since he knew he'd struggle in a larger university lecture."

Obviously, anyone who's taken a few college level classes knows that the teacher, more than anything else, determines the difficulty of a course. And by extension, if they use a relative curve, then the student intelligence will play a role as well. God knows I've received a few As from an elite liberal arts college for sleeping through class and had to work my butt off at a CC for an A in a similar class. But the general assumption is that this is the exception.

You have to ask yourself: In an insanely, ludicrously, absurdly, perhaps unfairly, and increasingly, competitive annual med school app cycle, don't you want to eliminate every opportunity an adcom might have (MIGHT have) for rejecting you? You have the choice to attend a great state system, to me it seems like an absolute no-brainer, if for no other reason than to give yourself comm-college-prejudice-insurance. Take as many as you can at the four year. Why give them any reason to choose another candidate over you?

hmmmmm, well i could opt out of O. chem this fall from my CC, and try to take it at Suny Old Westbury, a 4yr school. I can start and finish my chem classes that I am already taking this summer, and perhaps a few more this fall...while O. Chem 1 and 2, physics, and a bunch of other advanced med schools at the 4yr. hmmmmm, time to think.