family med doctor making $955,514.22?

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I need help with wrapping my head around something. I was looking at the British Columbia bluebook which lists the salaries of all physicians. I randomly googled a family doctor in Kewlona, BC, and came up with Dr. Ronald George Cridland who seems to have earned $955,514.22 in 2011. I know this is before taxes and overhead, but my question is, how is this possible? Does he own a few clinics and other doctors somehow make it look like he's taking care of patients? There are others in more remote locations making in the 600,000's. how is this possible?

Originally Posted by SFO-IST

I need help with wrapping my head around something. I was looking at the British Columbia bluebook which lists the salaries of all physicians. I randomly googled a family doctor in Kewlona, BC, and came up with Dr. Ronald George Cridland who seems to have earned $955,514.22 in 2011. I know this is before taxes and overhead, but my question is, how is this possible? Does he own a few clinics and other doctors somehow make it look like he's taking care of patients? There are others in more remote locations making in the 600,000's. how is this possible?

If you read the fine print it says that is not net income. That is the total reimbursement docs get. Then the doc has to pay overhead, equipment, rent for office, bills, office staff, etc. Its kinda like how apple has sales of 20 billion but only makes 1 billion in profit.

dude... even with overhead that is a ridiculous amount of money, what is overhead in BC, 150,000 MAXXXXXXX..... other fees say another 100,000 the guy even after taxes is pulling over half a million, dude that is obscene.

Originally Posted by Oxer45

If you read the fine print it says that is not net income. That is the total reimbursement docs get. Then the doc has to pay overhead, equipment, rent for office, bills, office staff, etc. Its kinda like how apple has sales of 20 billion but only makes 1 billion in profit.

After speaking to some doctors, it seems you are right. The higher compensation is due to remote fm docs doing more procedures that need expensive equipment. Unfortunately, unlike a hospital where there is a constant stream of patients to justify the cost, this margin is a lot smaller in rural settings. So the overhead is a much higher percentage of total cost.

some FPs also bill for a psych consult if they just ask 'how are you feeling?' I'm not saying that's what this guy has done but that there are many ways to ring up a nice bill

Part of it can easily be explained. If you can see a large number of patients per day, you're halfway there to making a million a year. Then add in extra billings, procedures in rural settings, business techniques, etc. and profits can greatly rise. With overhead you're looking at 30-40% in general but this is the general number for general FM incomes (200-400k/year). If the guy is making about a million a year, he's paying no more than 200k to overhead and after taxes is indeed taking home ~500k/year.

Family medicine tends to be fairly lucrative in Canada due to the mathematical possibility.

"Readers of this Schedule of Payments should understand that it provides only a record of gross payments. In some instances, the recorded figure is a payment for the services of a number of practitioners."

Originally Posted by sportsperson

Part of it can easily be explained. If you can see a large number of patients per day, you're halfway there to making a million a year. Then add in extra billings, procedures in rural settings, business techniques, etc. and profits can greatly rise. With overhead you're looking at 30-40% in general but this is the general number for general FM incomes (200-400k/year). If the guy is making about a million a year, he's paying no more than 200k to overhead and after taxes is indeed taking home ~500k/year.

Family medicine tends to be fairly lucrative in Canada due to the mathematical possibility.

I didn't realize FM is that lucrative in Canada.

However, what is the average FM salary in Vancouver/GTA? Would 200K be a fair figure to throw out?

I know in rural areas guys are pulling in 500K...but what about large urban areas?

Originally Posted by Blitz2006

I didn't realize FM is that lucrative in Canada.

However, what is the average FM salary in Vancouver/GTA? Would 200K be a fair figure to throw out?

I know in rural areas guys are pulling in 500K...but what about large urban areas?

My family doc in Vancouver billed 200K last year. My ex-girlfriend's father would make about 250k in Toronto but he worked a fair bit. It probably is close to 200K from everything I have read and heard.

Originally Posted by SFO-IST

I need help with wrapping my head around something. I was looking at the British Columbia bluebook which lists the salaries of all physicians. I randomly googled a family doctor in Kewlona, BC, and came up with Dr. Ronald George Cridland who seems to have earned $955,514.22 in 2011. I know this is before taxes and overhead, but my question is, how is this possible? Does he own a few clinics and other doctors somehow make it look like he's taking care of patients? There are others in more remote locations making in the 600,000's. how is this possible?

It is likely that the doctor bills for several other procedures within the realm of family practice and is covering the costs of expeinsive equipement, especially in the more remote regions.Familly Dr.'s in more remote regions generally work a lot more and have more responsibilities as there are so few doctors. There was a story of a doctor in northern Ontario that had a family practice, did house calls, worked at a seniors homes and filled in at an urgent care centre ect.. He worked over 16 hours a day and he has been doing it for 20 years but was retiring. It is also like that this Dr. is probably a workaholic. Generally if you are the average familly doctor with a regular schedule you will likely earn between 250 000 and 400 000 in billings before overhead and taxes..

family medicine in canada is probably the most lucrative compared to any other country

yeap.... it's overpaid, for sure...
I heard the living cost down there is extremely high though.... so it's relateive.
Here in the other side of the country, NL, a family doctor is doing around 150.000 to 300.000 before taxes and stuff.... and the living cost is less cheaper than BC, of course...
Still, a lot of money, I agree

J

Originally Posted by Blitz2006

I didn't realize FM is that lucrative in Canada.

However, what is the average FM salary in Vancouver/GTA? Would 200K be a fair figure to throw out?

I know in rural areas guys are pulling in 500K...but what about large urban areas?

Found the 2011 British Columbia billings: http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legi...uebook2011.pdf

search the names here to find out which specialties they go with: https://www.cpsbc.ca/node/264

Or you can use the second link to search family doctors in various parts of BC to see how much they billed in 2011.

Originally Posted by abstract1

It is likely that the doctor bills for several other procedures within the realm of family practice and is covering the costs of expeinsive equipement, especially in the more remote regions.Familly Dr.'s in more remote regions generally work a lot more and have more responsibilities as there are so few doctors. There was a story of a doctor in northern Ontario that had a family practice, did house calls, worked at a seniors homes and filled in at an urgent care centre ect.. He worked over 16 hours a day and he has been doing it for 20 years but was retiring. It is also like that this Dr. is probably a workaholic. Generally if you are the average familly doctor with a regular schedule you will likely earn between 250 000 and 400 000 in billings before overhead and taxes..

Cridland runs a sleep clinic, and he has no competition, so he bills for all of the sleep studies.

Office based family practice is a money loser, so those high billing doctors are probably making that a small part of their practice, if at all.

The real way to make money in FP is by not practicing it.

Even so, many of those salaries are just unreal. I found a paediatrician who was making around $800.000. Are doctors in Canada better paid than in the US?

Originally Posted by Substance

Cridland runs a sleep clinic, and he has no competition, so he bills for all of the sleep studies.

Office based family practice is a money loser, so those high billing doctors are probably making that a small part of their practice, if at all.

The real way to make money in FP is by not practicing it.

Not sure you know what you are talking about. I know of only office based FP's in Alberta who bill over 500k in their pratices.

Originally Posted by boanssi

Even so, many of those salaries are just unreal. I found a paediatrician who was making around $800.000. Are doctors in Canada better paid than in the US?

Definitely not, particularly if you look at where the practice is based. If you put it anywhere in Ontario, tax on $800,000 is $355000 so you're left with $445000, now I haven't ruled in overhead etc, which would easily cut down maybe 25% or so, and you're looking at $333 750... this is if you are making $800K, which probably wont happen unless you work in a remote area far far away from a city. Coupled with the high costs of living (yes, costs of living in remote area tend to be higher than cities), you're averaging the same if you worked at a midsize city in the US (not to mention US has a far less cost of living).

Don't forget that they have no pension plan, no personal insurance plan, benefits, etc. That and the number of hours worked and the education cost, the compensation is not much greater than a teacher in terms of 20 year average rate per hour.

[QUOTE=jayceee;12766633]Found the 2011 British Columbia billings: http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legi...uebook2011.pdf

Thanks for sharing this info. Does anyone know of Alberta billings for the blue book?

Originally Posted by jayceee

Found the 2011 British Columbia billings: http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/legi...uebook2011.pdf

search the names here to find out which specialties they go with: https://www.cpsbc.ca/node/264

Or you can use the second link to search family doctors in various parts of BC to see how much they billed in 2011.

Does anyone know of the Alberta billing bluebook link? Thanks!

Read: high numbers may be the billings of a group of multiple physicians.

Originally Posted by gobigorgohome

"Readers of this Schedule of Payments should understand that it provides only a record of gross payments. In some instances, the recorded figure is a payment for the services of a number of practitioners."

just one point of reference for these salaries.......these are in CANADIAN dollars......meaning that the currency is valid as a point of reference only in the home country.......an average house; an AVERAGE house, costs over 400k in toronto and over 500k in vancouver people........

canadian dollars; and canadian physician incomes need to be taken into context in canada.........

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09...erparts-study/

Originally Posted by step2cspass

just one point of reference for these salaries.......these are in CANADIAN dollars......meaning that the currency is valid as a point of reference only in the home country.......an average house; an AVERAGE house, costs over 400k in toronto and over 500k in vancouver people........

canadian dollars; and canadian physician incomes need to be taken into context in canada.........

Um, the US and Canadian dollars are virtually equal. Unless you're writing from the 1990's or something.

that's because of a weak us economy; historically, it's been 1 us - 1.3 cad.....prices in canada reflect that......us minimum wage is ~7......canadian is ~10......so comparing usd to cad in 2 different countries with different costs of living is irrelevant.....