New DO Schools

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Just got this email from my Pre med advisor


For Immediate Release


May 2, 2012



Contact Information:
Wendy Fernando
Vice President for Communications and Marketing
(301) 968-4174
wfernando@aacom.org
www.aacom.org


AACOM Welcomes Three New Member Colleges

The leadership and Board of Deans of the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) are pleased to welcome three new colleges of osteopathic medicine as members of AACOM. The three colleges are now available to students applying through AACOMAS (AACOM’s centralized application service) for 2013 entry into osteopathic medical school.

The three new colleges of osteopathic medicine and their respective deans include:

Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine (Dothan, AL)
Craig J. Lenz, DO, FAODME, Founding Dean
Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine (Buies Creek, NC)
John M. Kauffman Jr., DO, Founding Dean
Marian University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Indianapolis, IN)
Paul Evans, DO, Vice President, Founding Dean
With the addition of these new schools, there are now 29 U.S. colleges of osteopathic medicine (COMs), four branch campuses, and four additional teaching locations. Currently, more than 20 percent of medical students in the United States are earning their degrees at one of the nation’s COMs.

The American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine promotes excellence in osteopathic medical education, in research and in service, and fosters innovation and quality among osteopathic medical colleges to improve the health of the American public.



Quote from Dr. Stephen C. Shannon,
President and CEO, American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine

"We are proud of the growth of U.S. osteopathic medical education, and welcome these three new schools to AACOM. Osteopathic medicine, with its traditional community-based primary care and prevention focus, has an important role to play in ensuring that our nation’s health care system has the type of physicians that we need. Osteopathic medical education is pleased to provide leadership in this important area."

I'm just glad I'll be 1-2 years ahead of that year's class... otherwise that'd be ~500 more people applying for residency programs when I do.

Exactly. It is sad that new classes will not have as many opportunities as previous ones, and that everyone that didn't get in this year is just told "oh, just reapply!" not realizing how much worse things become each year in the DO cohort, ESPECIALLY next year's.

Originally Posted by user3

Exactly. It is sad that new classes will not have as many opportunities as previous ones, and that everyone that didn't get in this year is just told "oh, just reapply!" not realizing how much worse things become each year in the DO cohort, ESPECIALLY next year's.

I'm still still in the "just care about getting into medical school" stage, but are D.O. residencies really that scarce?! This is disconcerting since I plan on applying to osteopathic schools..

In my experience many DO applicants are under informed about what they are getting themselves into. Not in terms of the DO philosophy but their post-graduate opportunities. Multiple times on the interview trail I saw students, deans, etc portray the image that any specialty is fine and attainable for a DO student. "You name a specialty, we've sent a grad into it" and "there are no do residencies in x specialty, but you can just do it through the md match" are statements I have heard, and they are misleading. applicants are not told how much harder many of these non primary care residencies will be to obtain--neglecting to even mention the climate of stagnant residency growth and rapidly increasing class sizes. Heck, I even talked to a guy at one interview that seemed to think that all a DO needs to do is take the USMLE, and they will be on equal footing with their MD colleagues.

Such uninformedness/misinformation is more common than people think.

Originally Posted by Iliketoytles

I'm just glad I'll be 1-2 years ahead of that year's class... otherwise that'd be ~500 more people applying for residency programs when I do.

+1. my wife and I talk about this constantly. I feel like I am getting into medicine at the perfect time based on what is happening in the economy and with schools, but the next couple years is going to be dodgy.

Just think of the diminishing chances of any IMG hoping to land a residency spot here with all the added competitors...seems I really side-stepped a landmine by going DO and, like toytles said, just barely squeaked in before these schools open.

Originally Posted by Iliketoytles

I'm just glad I'll be 1-2 years ahead of that year's class... otherwise that'd be ~500 more people applying for residency programs when I do.

At first I was incredulous about the ~500, then I saw Marian wants to have 150 in the first class.

The Alabama school seems to be setting up a pipeline program where students can do their first 2 years at a D.O. school outside of Alabama then finish 3rd and 4th year with ACOM. Weird.

I wonder how long it is going to take before this whole thing reaches critical mass. Sad state of affairs in the DO world. And the higherups dont even see any of this as a problem. Smh

The addition of 500 more grads to the residency pool can still be accommodated since 888 spots remained unfilled in the 2012 AOA match.

http://www.aacom.org/resources/e-new...2AOAMatch.aspx

I am in the process of filling out my AMCAS application and thought I would also apply for DO schools. I want to be in primary care of some fashion (at this point at least). I am not necessarily desiring the osteopathic route I have just been told that I should apply in case no MD schools doors open. Would I be better off just applying to more MD and avoiding DO altogether? I have a 4.0 but yet to take MCAT... recommendations?

Happy to see more in the south though which is sadly bereft of DO programs. And yes, glad I will be matching in 2014!

Originally Posted by addiekm07

I am in the process of filling out my AMCAS application and thought I would also apply for DO schools. I want to be in primary care of some fashion (at this point at least). I am not necessarily desiring the osteopathic route I have just been told that I should apply in case no MD schools doors open. Would I be better off just applying to more MD and avoiding DO altogether? I have a 4.0 but yet to take MCAT... recommendations?

Apply to more MD programs.

Some DO programs are good, but you definitely want an ACGME residency, even in primary care, and DO grads are at a serious disadvantage in the residency hunt.

Originally Posted by Ibn Alnafis MD

The addition of 500 more grads to the residency pool can still be accommodated since 888 spots remained unfilled in the 2012 AOA match.

http://www.aacom.org/resources/e-new...2AOAMatch.aspx

Because we all want to be FM doctors in Michigan? Unless the AOA starts opening up new specialty residencies these new schools will be screwing us all majorly. Sigh being class of 2018 will probably not be too sweet for me..

so im getting the impression that the shortage of residencies are regarding non-primary care areas/specialties, how is the residencies looking for primary care? you hear everywhere that there is a shortage of primary care physicians, i was wondering about the residency situation about it

I had the "pleasure" of going to a lunchtime meeting with the AOA president today. According to him, something like 800 spots were opened this year. I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it is what he said. He also said many hospitals that have 3rd year osteopathic students are looking to open residencies but I see a problem with CMS just handing over funding. His argument was some of the bills in Washington such as the American Recovery Act and maybe the Affordable Care Act have money set aside for healthcare center funding in addition to resident training.

I'm hoping someone actually took notes during the meeting and sends us an e-mail; I didn't like his approach of speaking to us so I stopped listening 100%.

so i wonder how strong the in state bias is for alabama? I mean I live in florida. im just a hop, skip and a jump away. Wonder if I should bother applying?

Originally Posted by ColeSmalls

so i wonder how strong the in state bias is for alabama? I mean I live in florida. im just a hop, skip and a jump away. Wonder if I should bother applying?

With all the great schools you have in your home state, do you really want to be a guinea pig?

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I had the "pleasure" of going to a lunchtime meeting with the AOA president today. According to him, something like 800 spots were opened this year. I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it is what he said. He also said many hospitals that have 3rd year osteopathic students are looking to open residencies but I see a problem with CMS just handing over funding. His argument was some of the bills in Washington such as the American Recovery Act and maybe the Affordable Care Act have money set aside for healthcare center funding in addition to resident training.

I'm hoping someone actually took notes during the meeting and sends us an e-mail; I didn't like his approach of speaking to us so I stopped listening 100%.

Sounds like he was a very personable guy

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I had the "pleasure" of going to a lunchtime meeting with the AOA president today. According to him, something like 800 spots were opened this year. I don't know if this is accurate or not, but it is what he said. He also said many hospitals that have 3rd year osteopathic students are looking to open residencies but I see a problem with CMS just handing over funding. His argument was some of the bills in Washington such as the American Recovery Act and maybe the Affordable Care Act have money set aside for healthcare center funding in addition to resident training.

I'm hoping someone actually took notes during the meeting and sends us an e-mail; I didn't like his approach of speaking to us so I stopped listening 100%.

I could imagine a lot of spots if you take into account that he probably does not mean 800 first year spots, but 800 total spots. Even then, 800 sounds huge. But you actually can track this stuff and the AOA opens like 40 or 45-ish new programs every year. Mostly IM, peds, or FP... yea. But surgery and ortho have opened recently too in areas. and derm and uro are planned soon just around the corner from my school.

As for the funding? He may know better than I do, but my understanding is he is really chasing a pipe dream/grasping at straws if he thinks the various bills will provide for GME funding. The only thing out there that will provide for GME funding is that one bill sponsored by the florida senator and Chuck Schumer every year... the one that has no funding source and never has had a source of funding (but if it ever did, would actually do a **** ton of good for residencies)

There are plenty of ways to open new residencies. The GME funding isnt frozen the way you think it is. No program can *expand*. You can always open new programs if you can find new hospitals willing to host them. The difficulty is finding untapped hospitals that actually wish to get into the training business.

This is the new approved OGMEs for this year. Better than nothing and a lot of non-family med opening up.
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...-programs.aspx

Originally Posted by Flemon

This is the new approved OGMEs for this year. Better than nothing and a lot of non-family med opening up.
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...-programs.aspx

That list actually looks pretty legit. 5 new derm programs, 3 new cards, 5 new ortho, 1 new ENT, 7 new GS, 1 new interventional cards, 1 new rads, 2 new gastroenterology programs, 2 new vascular surger, 1 new MOHS fellowship, lots of new fellowship programs for IM (rheum, addiction med, allergy immun, ID)

surprised to see that they pretty much created new fellowship programs for almost all IM subspecialties.
... seems like they are at least trying to keep up with the increasing number of grads

As another crappy GPA student, this makes me very happy.

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

Apply to more MD programs.

Some DO programs are good, but you definitely want an ACGME residency, even in primary care, and DO grads are at a serious disadvantage in the residency hunt.

Every DO student is a freaking moron and anyone planning to go to a DO should ashamed. The entire world is laughing at us. Got it. I love how often you come on the osteo forums to remind everyone that. Fist pump.

Originally Posted by FrkyBgStok

Every DO student is a freaking moron and anyone planning to go to a DO should ashamed. The entire world is laughing at us. Got it. I love how often you come on the osteo forums to remind everyone that. Fist pump.

Meh, blame the iOS app. You guys post frequently, so the threads show up frequently in the unread section.

DO is a valid option, and is probably better than many of the new MD programs (and now definitely better than the Caribbean).

You're just being dishonest with yourself if you think it doesn't close doors. Even if you are sure you want to go into primary care. You are almost always better off with an MD if you can get it, if you can't or are geographically restricted, go for the DO.

There are also a bunch of sketchy entities taking advantage of the less strict accreditation requirements to create new DO programs. So caveat emptor.

Please edit your post. I agree with way to much of it for my comfort.

Its true.

Don't feed him, man..

J-Drama is a good guy and made a totally legit point.

Originally Posted by Chiroptile

Don't feed him, man..

I'm not trolling.

I'm only going to step in if people are advising premeds to go for DO over MD, or if you say anything non-disparaging about OMM (please don't drag me into that here).

You aren't doing anyone any favors by telling the OP not to apply to more MD programs over DO programs. Unless you're in Michigan and set on primary care, being a DO closes doors to all but the very top students.

I'm assuming all these subspecialties such as cards, addiction medicine, A&I are indeed fellowships even though residency is in their titles?

Maybe so.. Just.. A lot of threads devolve into MD vs DO lately. Would be neat if this one broke the cycle..

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I'm assuming all these subspecialties such as cards, addiction medicine, A&I are indeed fellowships even though residency is in their titles?

Yes they are definitely fellowships. They just have a weird way of labeling them.

Which is my major gripe with opporturnities.* I search for programs and I have to delineate internship or residency. That's fine. But then the fellowships are categorized under residency as well. Sigh.

From that list I see PCOM is starting a reproductive endocrinology and sports medicine fellowship. Interesting. Neither of those have been talked about.

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Which is my major gripe with opporturnities.* I search for programs and I have to delineate internship or residency. That's fine. But then the fellowships are categorized under residency as well. Sigh.

From that list I see PCOM is starting a reproductive endocrinology and sports medicine fellowship. Interesting. Neither of those have been talked about.

eh... yeah i can see how annoying that can be

howabout when the AOA collectively refers to DO schools as COMs (Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine), but some schools are called SOM in their name (School of Osteopathic Medicine). Or howabout Oklahoma State calls their school "College of Medicine" on their website.

Yeah, LECOM has "college of medicine" on their site too. And one of my sheets from the interview says "College of Medicine Interview Schedule" or something like that.

Originally Posted by user3

Yeah, LECOM has "college of medicine" on their site too. And one of my sheets from the interview says "College of Medicine Interview Schedule" or something like that.

Wow, I haven't been to their website since the Fall when I interviewed there and it's changed! Looks pretty good to me

With the new programs opening, all I can say is what's already been echoed. I am glad that I have absolutely no plans to go Caribbean over DO. Seem to remember a guy not too long ago arguing with some of us older or more experienced in the system posters that SGU was a better option, oops.....

For those reading this is just another reason to absolutely not go Caribbean at the current time. As far as the new programs go, hopefully they'll do a good job with their first class which only time will tell.

Originally Posted by COMedic2Doc

With the new programs opening, all I can say is what's already been echoed. I am glad that I have absolutely no plans to go Caribbean over DO. Seem to remember a guy not too long ago arguing with some of us older or more experienced in the system posters that SGU was a better option, oops.....

For those reading this is just another reason to absolutely not go Caribbean at the current time. As far as the new programs go, hopefully they'll do a good job with their first class which only time will tell.

SGU might still be okay, but definitely none of the others. And only SGU if they thought they could be a superstar there.

5 years ago I would have said SGU over most of the DO programs, but probably not now. At the moment it's still getting better rotations than many DO programs (and some US MD programs) thanks to bribery, so they may hold onto more residency spots than you'd expect.

Don't underestimate the power that comes with all that money from people who fail out in the first two years. For someone who is sure he wouldn't be one of them, it could still work.

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

SGU might still be okay, but definitely none of the others. And only SGU if they thought they could be a superstar there.

5 years ago I would have said SGU over most of the DO programs, but probably not now. At the moment it's still getting better rotations than many DO programs (and some US MD programs) thanks to bribery, so they may hold onto more residency spots than you'd expect.

Don't underestimate the power that comes with all that money from people who fail out in the first two years. For someone who is sure he wouldn't be one of them, it could still work.

I would agree that five years ago, SGU would be a decent school. For this year's incoming class, there's much to be worried about. I see the AGME and AOA working hard to address problems that are quite hard to fathom right now in terms of the turnover in healthcare and increased demand for more physicians, so don't know that it's much bribery as much as it is teamwork to get things done.

Caribbean students are gonna take a big hit as far as finding residencies....

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

SGU might still be okay, but definitely none of the others. And only SGU if they thought they could be a superstar there.

5 years ago I would have said SGU over most of the DO programs, but probably not now. At the moment it's still getting better rotations than many DO programs (and some US MD programs) thanks to bribery, so they may hold onto more residency spots than you'd expect.

Don't underestimate the power that comes with all that money from people who fail out in the first two years. For someone who is sure he wouldn't be one of them, it could still work.

johnny sorry bro but ur dead wrong here. never go offshore vs. D.O. those rotation sites are still up in the air.

courtesy DocE:

"Offshore Medical Schools
Medical students who attend LCME/COCA-accredited New
York State medical schools are very concerned that they may
not have access to necessary clinical clerkship programs in
New York Hospitals as a result of Caribbean Offshore
Medical Schools purchasing increasing numbers of these
clerkship slots for their students from hospitals in New York.
In the past, procurement of these clinical clerkship rotations
by LCME/COCA accredited medical schools for students in
their clinical years has depended on agreements made
between the medical schools and the hospital, based not on
financial transactions, but on providing the highest quality of
education to the students, thereby ensuring continuation of
the best medical care for the community served and for the
United States. For-profit offshore medical schools are not
required to meet LCME/COCA accreditation standards.
They are continuing to increase in numbers, so that there are
more students from these schools each year coming to the
U.S. and to New York in particular for their clinical training,
as many of them to not have an affiliation with a local
teaching hospital in the Caribbean. In order to secure clinical
rotation sites for their students, these for-profit offshore
schools are contracting with hospitals in New York to pay in
excess of $400 per student per week of clerkship experience.
U.S. medical schools cannot match these amounts and it has
been estimated that enabling U.S. schools to match the
amounts paid by offshore schools would require a tuition
increase of $35,000. The New York City Health and
Hospitals Corporation has a ten-year exclusive contract with
St. Georges Medical Schools to send 600 new students per
year of education into an area that already has difficulty
accommodating seven U.S. medical schools, and is a very
desirable site by U.S. medical schools nation-wide.
LCME/COCA standards are required to be met for
American medical students to participate in third-year
clerkships, but for-profit offshore medical schools do not
have a standardized equivalent system of evaluation for their
students before they participate in third-year clerkships in
American hospitals.

As a result of this, MSSNY will support
that preference not be given to students from international
and dual-campus medical schools over students from
LCME/COCA accredited medical schools for clinical
clerkship rotations in hospitals or affiliated clinics.

Moreover, MSSNY is following the meetings of the Advisory
Committee on Long-Term Clinical Clerkships, created by the
New York State Education Department, and hopes to be
able to support the future work of this Committee as it looks
at the regulations of long-term clerkships and at the
standards of the off-shore medical school curriculums,
didactic program outcome measures, clinical program
outcome measures and faculty constructed exams and
evaluations. The Advisory Committee will also review and
make changes in site visits to the off shore medical schools
to determine whether they will be considered an “approved
school”, which would give them the ability to send their
students to New York State long-term clinical clerkship
programs. Approvals will be time-limited and re-site visits
will occur every 3-5 years."

"AMA Stance. Already approved by the medical student section. Comes up for debate by the whole AMA in June of this year.

RESOLVED, That our AMA encourage local teaching hospitals to secure access to clinical clerkship positions for medical students educated in US Liaison Committee on Medical Education/Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation accredited medical schools before allocating positions to medical students from non-accredited schools; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the AMA oppose extraordinary payments by any medical school for access to clinical rotations."

Originally Posted by donkeykong1

"AMA Stance. Already approved by the medical student section. Comes up for debate by the whole AMA in June of this year.

RESOLVED, That our AMA encourage local teaching hospitals to secure access to clinical clerkship positions for medical students educated in US Liaison Committee on Medical Education/Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation accredited medical schools before allocating positions to medical students from non-accredited schools; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the AMA oppose extraordinary payments by any medical school for access to clinical rotations."

The osteo thread re SGU rotations for those interested:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=902529

More DO schools?


Even as a DO (and a mod on SDN in the osteo forum), I'm having a hard time keeping track of all the new DO schools. I used to participate in my residency ranking committee (acgme university program) and I've heard other faculty members (MDs) say "there are so many DO schools I can't even keep track of them" (they were referring to applicants from LECOM-B and VCOM).

*this is when LECOM-B and VCOM were relatively new schools with only a few graduating classes under their belt

I fear that in the near-future, as the number of quality applicants remain fixed (for med school), but increase med school spots - the quality of med students will increase in variability (due to acceptance of students who normally would not be accepted). I fear that medical schools, especially DO schools, will fall into tiers like law school, with establish and older schools being in the higher tiers, and new stand-alone schools (in the middle of nowhere) in the lower tiers - and a bloodbath when it comes to getting residency spots. Just like lawyers can be successful coming from a tier 4 law school, so can DOs from these new unknown DO schools ... but I fear that the vast majority of those will have a tough struggle.

At this point, the bottleneck is residency positions - and with a cost of $100k/year/resident, not sure how many new spots will be created (it's one thing to say you'll create spots, it's another to actually create spots - especially in this economic environments). The hospitals also need to create the appropriate administrative support structure (and staff) for any residency programs, since there are paperwork (and fees) for AOA accreditation (and even ACGME/RRC accreditation)


Also looking at the list of "new" osteopathic programs - the vast majority are at small community hospitals who may not have the numbers or pathology that trainees need (eventually leading to subpar clinical education).

Originally Posted by DrMediterranean

That list actually looks pretty legit. 5 new derm programs, 3 new cards, 5 new ortho, 1 new ENT, 7 new GS, 1 new interventional cards, 1 new rads, 2 new gastroenterology programs, 2 new vascular surger, 1 new MOHS fellowship, lots of new fellowship programs for IM (rheum, addiction med, allergy immun, ID)

surprised to see that they pretty much created new fellowship programs for almost all IM subspecialties.
... seems like they are at least trying to keep up with the increasing number of grads

You know, that entire list is actually pretty impressive. Hope they keep this up.

i would like to apply to these schools but i cannot find their website.

does anyone know if they require biochemistry?

thank you

Originally Posted by titleist975j

i would like to apply to these schools but i cannot find their website.

does anyone know if they require biochemistry?

thank you

Those are residency/fellowship programs, not schools.

Take biochemistry. You'll need to understand it for the MCAT, was more valuable than orgo.

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

Those are residency/fellowship programs, not schools.

Take biochemistry. You'll need to understand it for the MCAT, was more valuable than orgo.

i was referring to the 3 new DO schools.

regarding biochem, i have already graduated. would it be wise for me to just get a biochem text and self study?

thank you

Originally Posted by titleist975j

i was referring to the 3 new DO schools.

regarding biochem, i have already graduated. would it be wise for me to just get a biochem text and self study?

thank you

Sure. Here's a good website that I used a lot in undergrad as a supplement to Lehninger's.

http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/