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Originally Posted by Blaquestar

Question: I have a 3.6 overall gpa, a 21 mcat and have really good ec's. I know my mcat score is very low but I went ahead and applied to medical school this year. I got an interview to my dream med school but got wait-listed.

I know I need to strengthen my application by doing a med- prep program such as the one offered by SIU. However, SIU med prep program does not open up til next year. So my question is does anyone know of a med-prep program similar to SIU's that has a earlier start date? Thank you!

Please don't post the same thing in multiple places. I'm replying in the other thread in this forum.

I am really stressed out about what to do in my current situation:

I am currently a senior at the University of Michigan majoring in neuroscience. I have worked in a neuroscience research lab for about 1.5 years, volunteered at UofM hospital for about 3 months months, volunteered through Habitat for Humanity for a few months, and had a 6 week internship through the St. John's Health System here in Michigan. In this internship I was able to shadow doctors (usually neurologists and neurosurgeons) in both the OR, clinic, and hospital setting. I took the MCAT this past summer (end of July 2011). I am in a fraternity here at UMich and I have held the positions of Recruitment Chair and Secretary - both on the executive board. My pre-health advisor has been less than helpful in my situation, mainly telling me to call every school I have interest in and ask what they suggest I should do. Here are my stats:

cGPA: 3.3
sGPA: 3.2
MCAT: 32S (9-PS, 11-V, 12-BS)

My GPA has a good upward trend in that last semester (Fall 2011) I earned ~3.75, and the semester before that (Winter 2011) I earned ~3.7. Fall 2010 I still had an upward trend with a GPA of about 3.45.

At this point I am strongly considering doing a SMP. Does this make sense? If so, what programs do you suggest? Also, I have visited Loyola's medical school multiple times and really like it so maybe their MA in Health Sciences?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hello,
I am a senior that is about to graduate in the spring and I am really starting to freak out where I am going to end up after graduation. My GPA is on the somewhat low side so think an SMP is the right way to prove that I can handle the course load. My question is this... I have sent my applications for SMPs in , however, I am scheduled to take the MCAT end of April (Do they even review the application without the standardized test?)... Is this date too far gone to be an actual candidate for SMP 2012 Fall classes? I know a few of these programs accept GRE scores as well, would it be worth it to take my chances there with the GRE or will there be enough time with an April MCAT date?

Help and recommendations would be great!

Originally Posted by debeer22

Hello,
I am a senior that is about to graduate in the spring and I am really starting to freak out where I am going to end up after graduation. My GPA is on the somewhat low side so think an SMP is the right way to prove that I can handle the course load. My question is this... I have sent my applications for SMPs in , however, I am scheduled to take the MCAT end of April (Do they even review the application without the standardized test?)... Is this date too far gone to be an actual candidate for SMP 2012 Fall classes? I know a few of these programs accept GRE scores as well, would it be worth it to take my chances there with the GRE or will there be enough time with an April MCAT date?

Help and recommendations would be great!

Requirements vary greatly by SMP. Did you study (STUDY) the admissions pages for the programs to which you applied? If there's a minimum MCAT score, that means they're not looking at your app without an MCAT score. If you review the school-specific threads here, you'll get all the details you want.

Generally a late April MCAT is too late for the programs that publish the strongest results. You can probably get into Drexel or Boston or whatnot.

If you can take the GRE cold and do above average, great, but if you have to do work to get a good GRE score it's not worth the loss to MCAT study time.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by GBODumich2012

I am really stressed out about what to do in my current situation:

I am currently a senior at the University of Michigan majoring in neuroscience. I have worked in a neuroscience research lab for about 1.5 years, volunteered at UofM hospital for about 3 months months, volunteered through Habitat for Humanity for a few months, and had a 6 week internship through the St. John's Health System here in Michigan. In this internship I was able to shadow doctors (usually neurologists and neurosurgeons) in both the OR, clinic, and hospital setting. I took the MCAT this past summer (end of July 2011). I am in a fraternity here at UMich and I have held the positions of Recruitment Chair and Secretary - both on the executive board. My pre-health advisor has been less than helpful in my situation, mainly telling me to call every school I have interest in and ask what they suggest I should do. Here are my stats:

cGPA: 3.3
sGPA: 3.2
MCAT: 32S (9-PS, 11-V, 12-BS)

My GPA has a good upward trend in that last semester (Fall 2011) I earned ~3.75, and the semester before that (Winter 2011) I earned ~3.7. Fall 2010 I still had an upward trend with a GPA of about 3.45.

At this point I am strongly considering doing a SMP. Does this make sense? If so, what programs do you suggest? Also, I have visited Loyola's medical school multiple times and really like it so maybe their MA in Health Sciences?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

An SMP makes sense before you have your heart broken by applications, and your story sounds a lot like mine. I did the Temple ACMS program, which uniquely offers a guaranteed matriculation to their med school with completion of a year of classes (NOT a med school full load b/c people need to take the MCAT) with a 3.5 gpa, and you won't have to take the MCAT during the year (they require at least a 30 to matriculate). The Temple ACMS website says they require a 3.3 gpa, but there are people in the program with slightly lower gpa and a compelling story, and stronger MCAT (which you have).

To me, that was a better deal than the other SMPs, but the other "heavy hitters" are G-town, BU, U.Cinn, and the one in Eastern Virginia. You are offered an interview at those schools if you beat the curve (and your peers), but sadly not an acceptance. Tulane is great too if you were waitlisted at another med school.

Hi guys,

I recently just posted this on another thread...but I'm panicking, and this thread looks way more active:

Hey guys,

So it's late February and my MCAT scores cam out today...and I'm panicking. I have a 27R currently, and I'm sitting on a 3.01 GPA, strong ECs and very strong recommendations (plus, >3.6GPA past two semesters). I desperately would like to go to the Tufts Special Master's Program come this fall...I don't know what happend with the MCAT. Does anyone have some advice on what I can do to improve my chances? Should I retake my MCAT and wait to finish my application? (The MCAT scores are all that's missing?) Or submit these scores (the application would be effectively finished tomorrow) and wait? Any advice would be so welcome--I'm literally nauseous thinking about my scores.

Originally Posted by Maxprime

True SMP's:
Dartmouth Medical School: Center for the Evaluative Clinical Sciences (CECS)
Drexel University College of Medicine
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Georgetown University
Medical University of Ohio
Midwestern University
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
University at Buffalo-Roswell Park Cancer Institute (SUNY)
University of Cincinnati

Traditional Master's (hard science instead of applied):
Barry University
Boston University School of Medicine
Indiana University School of Medicine
Indiana University School of Medicine
Loyola University Chicago
New York Medical College
UMDNJ, Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences
University of North Texas Health Science Center

The differences are arguable - for example I don't consider the BU program to be theory instead of applied, so take the seperation with a grain of salt. I just posted them that way b/c they're on the AAMC site that way.

Is this still the accurate list for SMP's? Are there more now?

Originally Posted by mybubbles627

Is this still the accurate list for SMP's? Are there more now?

Not accurate, and the use of "true" I'd disagree with pretty strongly. There's no standard, no accreditation, no governing body, and no ratings system for SMPs.

See the "GPA enhancement" thread stickied at the top of the forum for a list that's only a couple years old instead of 5+ years old. There are a lot of new SMP or SMP-like programs mentioned in the last year+, so for best results, take some time browsing the last couple hundred forum threads.

Best of luck to you.

Just wanted to bring this up because it seems to get overlooked every year. There are many Tulane SMPs. I don't know if they would all be considered "true" SMPs, but they are all one year. Some require a thesis and some do not.

Current Tulane SMPs:
Pharmacology
Cell and Molecular Biology
Neuroscience
Genetics
Anatomy (this is an anatomy certification program for those previously waitlisted at a med school, MCAT at least a 28)

Hope this helps somebody!

Originally Posted by Moris

Hello All
I am already a masters student in a research based neuroscience program, My undergrad GPA is 3.7 and Grad GPA: 4.0 MCAT:28 R. I am a little confused about the SPM and could not find an answer from the thread, my question is after graduating from SPM do students need to apply through AMCAS again or that the they will automatically be considered by the school, if not do they have to re - write the MCAT for the next AMCAS cycle? Thanks a lot.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

It's SMP, special masters program. With your GPA you would be exceedingly foolish to do one.

Want to share a bit about why you think you need an SMP? Are you trying to avoid retaking the MCAT? Because spending $50k on an SMP is a wicked expensive detour.

Best of luck to you.

Why would it be foolish to do an SMP with a high GPA? Are there disadvantages of doing an SMP, besides the obvious financial investment?

Originally Posted by Scherbatsky

Why would it be foolish to do an SMP with a high GPA? Are there disadvantages of doing an SMP, besides the obvious financial investment?

If you do poorly in an SMP, you end up in worse shape than you started. Typically, the med students you're in class with can just barely pass and get away with it, but SMP students are expected to beat the curve in all classes. Even the kids who got 4.0's get smushed in med school coursework. Point being, it's hard and you can fail.

The asset gained in an SMP isn't valuable until the SMP is at least half completed. Unless you get into an SMP that puts most of its grads straight into the host med school, you are at the mercy of other med schools' admissions offices to get consideration. So it's a one year program, but for the sake of planning it's a 2 year turnaround (assuming you do well in the SMP and get an MD acceptance).

With a high GPA, for the love of all that's holy you should be getting as close to a free ride as you can, not paying top dollar to do an SMP.

Best of luck to you.

I am trying to decide what would be the best option for me if I don't get accepted into medical school.

-GPA 3.3
-MCAT 9P 8V 10B 27O on September 10, 2011
-Applied to medical school December 15, 2011
-EC's are not great (no medically related volunteer work)
-Got an interview invite from IU very quickly

Considering the following:

The Pre-Professional Non-Thesis Master of Science Degree (IUPUI)

-Feedback seems mixed on this program
-Lack of student resources seems to be the biggest complaint
-I have met two people who completed this program and were in medical school when I met them
-Having to take classes in the same buildings as my undergraduate is mildly depressing (opposed to MPH classes in the medical school buildings, which would instill a sense of making progress)
-I would have to take the GRE (only program of the 3 that requires it)

Cellular & Integrative Physiology Master of Science Degree (IUSM)

-Two pathways: w/ labatory research or w/o
-My biggest concern is taking classes with medical school students. I haven't spoke with anyone in the program yet but I assume I will be compared to the medical students. They only have to get enough to pass but from what I gather I will have to be above the curve.

Master of Public Health (IUSM)

-I know it's not an SMP program but I'd rather post here to get feedback
-I liked studying stress and health as an undergrad but I don't know if I would enjoy this program that much
-There would be no gap year
-Possibility of networking and establishing some great relationships

The problem that I have with the gap year is student loans. Sallie Mae told me that 6 months after graduation I would need to start making payments. They also told me that once I started making payments I could not stop, which would mean I would start paying before I entered medical school and would have to continue to pay while I was in medical school. I know some of you must have experience with this and I would appreciate some feedback.

I have been concerned about asking the people who wrote me a letter of recommendation for medical school to write me one for one of the three programs listed above. Are they going to be hesitant or perhaps write a less compelling letter? They would know that I got rejected from medical school and even though I know all of them personally I have not mustered the courage to ask.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I know there is a lot of people on here who give excellent advice.

Originally Posted by Fing Fang Foom

I am trying to decide what would be the best option for me if I don't get accepted into medical school.

-GPA 3.3
-MCAT 9P 8V 10B 27O on September 10, 2011
-Applied to medical school December 15, 2011
-EC's are not great (no medically related volunteer work)
-Got an interview invite from IU very quickly

I hate to be rude, but no, you're not getting accepted to medical school. IU gave you an interview because your stats are above minimum and they don't want your property-tax-paying parents to sue.

You applied in December? Who in the world is advising you? You've thrown away money by applying right up against the deadline with a weak app.

Originally Posted by Fing Fang Foom

Considering the following:

If you're only interested in IU programs, do either of the MS programs. An MPH does nothing to help your major app weakness (low stats).

You're limiting yourself greatly by only considering IU.

Originally Posted by Fing Fang Foom

The problem that I have with the gap year is student loans. Sallie Mae told me that 6 months after graduation I would need to start making payments. They also told me that once I started making payments I could not stop, which would mean I would start paying before I entered medical school and would have to continue to pay while I was in medical school. I know some of you must have experience with this and I would appreciate some feedback.

Clearly you're talking about a private loan through Sallie Mae. Two things on that:
1. You'll need to find your master promissory note to see what the terms are for grad school deferment. Typically, private student loans are deferable when you're in school more than half time (with limitations). And, typically, people on the phone are more fallible than your MPN.
2. Private loans are generally incompatible with low GPA comebacks to med school (you're on one). Why? First, any grad school deferment you'll get is fully spent at 4 years, unlike federal loans, and if you do an SMP or MS, you have to start paying on your private loan before med school ends. Second, you get no consideration for being in residency with a private loan, which is catastrophic given the typical med school debt load of $250k (federal loans allow you to moderate your payment to your income, such as IBR).

Holding a private student loan, being on a GPA comeback, and not knowing what to do about student loan payments during a possible gap year have a single, brilliant solution: get a job. Jobs require maturity and responsibility and may give you opportunities for leadership. You don't have to get a health-related job to get a med school app benefit from employment.

More to the point, if you've never been exposed to the working world, where your performance determines your ability to pay your rent, you are setting yourself up to experience great suckage when you have to start working in 3rd year. Imho everybody should work some to see that every job has administrativia and corporate BS...don't find out in 3rd year what it means to have to work, when you're dependent on nurses etc who have been on their feet earning their rent for decades and won't put up with incompetence.

Originally Posted by Fing Fang Foom

I have been concerned about asking the people who wrote me a letter of recommendation for medical school to write me one for one of the three programs listed above. Are they going to be hesitant or perhaps write a less compelling letter? They would know that I got rejected from medical school and even though I know all of them personally I have not mustered the courage to ask.

There's no reason to get separate LORs for SMPs. Use your med school LORs.

I suggest you need to start clinical volunteering right now. Today. You have no credibility as a medical school applicant without exposure to the realities of practice. Your IU interview could be painful.

I also suggest you'll want to do a rigorous prep course (such as Kaplan) and work hard for several months to get a better MCAT score, regardless of further classroom efforts.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by Scherbatsky

Why would it be foolish to do an SMP with a high GPA? Are there disadvantages of doing an SMP, besides the obvious financial investment?

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

If you do poorly in an SMP, you end up in worse shape than you started. Typically, the med students you're in class with can just barely pass and get away with it, but SMP students are expected to beat the curve in all classes. Even the kids who got 4.0's get smushed in med school coursework. Point being, it's hard and you can fail.

The asset gained in an SMP isn't valuable until the SMP is at least half completed. Unless you get into an SMP that puts most of its grads straight into the host med school, you are at the mercy of other med schools' admissions offices to get consideration. So it's a one year program, but for the sake of planning it's a 2 year turnaround (assuming you do well in the SMP and get an MD acceptance).

With a high GPA, for the love of all that's holy you should be getting as close to a free ride as you can, not paying top dollar to do an SMP.

Best of luck to you.

At the risk of sounding presumptuous, wouldn't someone entering an SMP with a high GPA be more likely to succeed in the program than someone entering with a lower GPA? Obviously there are other factors at play, but from what I've been reading here most SMP students go on to medical school, especially at the high-linkage schools. Rather than doing an SMP for GPA enhancement, would doing one simply to get a foot in the door with med schools not be a valid reason?

Originally Posted by Scherbatsky

At the risk of sounding presumptuous, wouldn't someone entering an SMP with a high GPA be more likely to succeed in the program than someone entering with a lower GPA? Obviously there are other factors at play, but from what I've been reading here most SMP students go on to medical school, especially at the high-linkage schools. Rather than doing an SMP for GPA enhancement, would doing one simply to get a foot in the door with med schools not be a valid reason?

You asked for a list of disadvantages, and that's what I listed. This is a thread with 338k+ views mostly from low GPA US students, and they're whom I'm thinking of when I respond to general questions. (Somebody correct me on that 'whom' if I blew it.)

Let's be clear: a US student with a high GPA should be applying straight to med school instead of taking on the additional ~$50k and the risk of blowing that high GPA in an SMP where the stakes can be higher than in med school.

You're a high GPA Canadian looking to do an SMP as a path into a US MD school. Sure, valid reason. If you can afford the cost, nobody's going to stop you.

Best of luck to you.

When you say that I am limiting myself by only considering IU are you saying I should apply to multiple SMPs?

How do you use the LORs from my medical school app? They were mailed from the letter writers directly to AMCAS and I don't think they would forward to me or to an institution that was not a medical school.

Would you recommend reapplying before or after the completion of the SMP? If I reapply before then I would have to study for the GRE to get into the SMP and study to re-take the MCAT.

My major concern with the loan was working in medical school. Personally I have never met anyone that worked during medical school. I enjoy my job but I am not sure I want to juggle it while handling the responsibilities of being in medical school.

Alright I am putting it out there...I need some opinions on my situation.

I am a recent MD applicant wait-listed at Duke (apparently they don't really use their wait list) and after applying to 14 schools am a bit discouraged. Stats:
cGPA: 3.43 - I am finishing my SECOND undergrad degree; doing a post-bacc won't do much for me as I have taken many undergrad courses
sGPA: 3.42 (most of my courses are BCPM) - I have a C in Calc III and a D in an honours physics course :s
MCAT: 35Q (BS: 13, PS: 11, VR: 11)

My ECs are pretty good with leadership experience, head of a student's society, 2 years as an RA, a 4 month co-op in a cancer centre, a summer as a first aid coordinator, 3rd author on a pub, a year as a volunteer peer counsellor, a year volunteering in a neuroethics research centre (great LOR to come from it too). I'm probably weak on clinical experience though. Hopefully that can be rectified a bit this spring before my app.

HOWEVER, after reading SDN a bit more, I realize that I made a few mistakes in the process, such as submitting some secondaries too late, submitting my primary later than necessary (mid July) and only applying to top-tier schools. I am graduating this year with a B.Sc. in Physics and am not really sure what to do next year. I am a non-traditional applicant at 27 years old and don't feel like 'wasting' a year by simply working and applying again. This is why I am considering an SMP. I see that other people with similar stats have been advised to not do it, but I have one more problem: I grew up in Canada and thus have no state residency (I am a US citizen though). For this reason, I am particularly considering the U of Cincinnati one, as you gain Ohio residency after one year, which might come in handy should I need (God forbid) to apply after this coming cycle. I'm also thinking of using my wait-list status to get into the ACP program at Tulane. Thoughts? Feelings?

Originally Posted by thoimis

HOWEVER, after reading SDN a bit more, I realize that I made a few mistakes in the process, such as submitting some secondaries too late, submitting my primary later than necessary (mid July) and only applying to top-tier schools.

The three deadly sins. Actually, the last one is by far your biggest problem. Don't fish in the wrong pond.

Do you have a good upward trend in your grades at this point?

My GPA goes up, sort of. It actually oscillates a bit, going 3.0, 3.77, 3.44, 3.75, 3.40, 3.3, 3.65.

The 3.3 was from a 'D' I received in an honours physics course, Classical Mechanics. The truth is simply that I'm not cut out to be a physicist. I took that course to challenge myself and absolutely hated it, then had a terrible performance on the final. The rest of the semester was solid with an A+, an A- and a B+.

Originally Posted by thoimis

My GPA goes up, sort of. It actually oscillates a bit, going 3.0, 3.77, 3.44, 3.75, 3.40, 3.3, 3.65.

The 3.3 was from a 'D' I received in an honours physics course, Classical Mechanics. The truth is simply that I'm not cut out to be a physicist. I took that course to challenge myself and absolutely hated it, then had a terrible performance on the final. The rest of the semester was solid with an A+, an A- and a B+.

That's a nice distribution, and your MCAT and ECs are great. All you need to do is apply more broadly and you'll have plenty of interviews. Finding something clinical won't hurt, either, but there's no need to take on the risk and expense of an SMP.

My son is a biology major in his senior year of college. His GPA will be in the 2.9 -3.0 range by the time he is done. I have waded through a lot of the post-bac forums but I still have some questions:

1. Is it a post-bac at all worth doing in my son's case?
2. Should he do a program where he basically repeats the pre-req courses for medicine in the hopes of higher grades or should he do an SMP? I assume if he doesn't get in to med school at least the SMP will be worth something??
3. Stepping back a little, what is the success rate of these programs? I know hard numbers will not be easy to come by. Will med. schools overlook a 2.9-3.0 undergraduate record if an applicant has an exemplary record in the post-bac program?
4. He is also applying to traditional graduate programs in biology (genetics to be specific). Are they any better or worse than the SMP's that are geared toward medical school admission?
5. Is it too late this year for him to apply for a post-bac program. I understand some programs require you to take the MCAT.

Thanks in advance for your patient replies.

bkk

Originally Posted by bkk1057

My son is a biology major in his senior year of college. His GPA will be in the 2.9 -3.0 range by the time he is done. I have waded through a lot of the post-bac forums but I still have some questions:

Is it a post-bac at all worth doing in my son's case?

If he wants to go to med school, yes, he has to do more academics. If he has the initiative, discipline, maturity and endurance to do the work of a low GPA comeback, yes, he can still go to med school.

Originally Posted by bkk1057

Should he do a program where he basically repeats the pre-req courses for medicine in the hopes of higher grades or should he do an SMP?

Yes, both, and then some. If he didn't do well enough in the prereqs to master the content, then he needs to take them again. But higher grades on retakes don't remove the lower previous grades for MD schools. (DO schools will forgive lower previous grades.)

Originally Posted by bkk1057

I assume if he doesn't get in to med school at least the SMP will be worth something??

Not really. It's a terminal masters with the sole purpose of getting low GPA students into med school. In your son's case, what he needs from an SMP is to prove what he didn't prove in undergrad (that he's ready for med school). If you want to tack on more requirements (that the program will help him get a job if he doesn't get into med school), you lower the odds that the program will get him into med school.

Originally Posted by bkk1057

Stepping back a little, what is the success rate of these programs? I know hard numbers will not be easy to come by.

Hard numbers are very easy to come by, for programs that have great results. EVMS put 91% of its medical masters grads into MD schools last year. Tulane ACP does about 95%. Cincinnati is something like 85%. Georgetown is 50% in the year after the SMP, 85% in the year after. You can get tremendous detail on the results for each program in the school-specific threads in this forum.

That said, SMPs are not standardized. You can't generalize at all. You have to be a smart consumer and figure out the differences and pros and cons. But there are only about 15 programs (for MD schools).

Originally Posted by bkk1057

Will med. schools overlook a 2.9-3.0 undergraduate record if an applicant has an exemplary record in the post-bac program?

Short answer is no, undergrad GPA is never overlooked. It's more permanent than a tattoo. When you apply to med school, you have to submit every transcript from every college ever attended. Every course and its grade is submitted to every med school, and the med school can do whatever it likes with that info.

What will get a candidate considered, despite a low undergrad GPA, is a substantial academic counter-example within a compelling application. In general, a 3.0 can get into an MD school with a very strong SMP performance, combined with a very strong MCAT, very strong letters of recommendation, very strong extra curriculars with leadership and responsibility, and an understanding of medical practice from clinical volunteering and physician shadowing. And other stuff.

Originally Posted by bkk1057

He is also applying to traditional graduate programs in biology (genetics to be specific). Are they any better or worse than the SMP's that are geared toward medical school admission?

Traditional grad work is difficult to evaluate. Undergrad GPA is easy to evaluate, because it should be consistent with the MCAT score. There's no MCAT score after a traditional grad program, so there's no way to see if grades are inflated. Med school app reviewers won't read a masters thesis.

Coming from a low GPA, your kid needs to make it easy for med school admissions committees to do their job. If he follows a 3.0 with a solid two year masters program, including published research, a solid PI letter, and a killer MCAT along with volunteering, that's easy for adcoms to understand. We only see such cases once in a blue moon around here. Usually it takes a major life change and years of struggle to counter a 3.0 in undergrad and get into med school.

Originally Posted by bkk1057

Is it too late this year for him to apply for a post-bac program. I understand some programs require you to take the MCAT.

He can get into a program. But think it through. Is he ready for the most difficult academics of his life? Is he sure he wants to go to med school? If he hurries into an SMP without an MCAT score, when is he going to take the MCAT (there's no time during an SMP)?

If it's not obvious, I'm advocating more undergrad. If he gets a 3.7+ in a 5th year, and kills the MCAT, then he can proceed to an SMP. In my opinion, that's the price of admission to the game for a 3.0. (He might be able to add a year+ to his undergrad program by adding a minor or a 2nd major.)

The average age of a 1st year med student is 24 and rising. If your kid would benefit from working for a few years, to figure things out, he doesn't "lose" anything. A low GPA comeback into med school takes years, and money, and backbone/commitment/discipline. You might be able to help with the money, but the rest is up to him.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you DrMidlife for the detailed point-by-point reply. Yes, I realize that, all things being said and done, it is up to my son....

I have applied to MD schools for the last two cycles and have been denied. My stats are:

3.53 sGPA
3.6 cGPA
22P and 29M MCAT, latest score is the 29
Chemistry major
California resident
over 200 volunteer hours and over 80 shadowing hours
president and founder of a premedical club/ medical missions club on campus for 2 years (club is still running)
2 years clinical research
worked for all of senior year for environmental lab
currently working at the same lab full time as a technician

I applied to 20-30 schools both times.
My LOR were strong, but from a chemistry professor, chemistry TA (with a PhD), humanities, and my boss at work. I never got an interview for either cycle.
I finished completing all my secondaries by the end of August.
Will not having a bio LOR affect me?

Should I retake the MCAT and give it a third shot? or should I apply to SMP programs?

I need help with deciding on a program. My GPA is fine about 3.7, and rising every quarter, however, my MCAT seems to be an issue, that is bothering me. Are there any post-bac or these "SMP's" that are heavily geared towards MCAT prep? I have a 25M on my MCAT and would like to raise it.

Originally Posted by anamaly1

I have applied to MD schools for the last two cycles and have been denied. My stats are:

3.53 sGPA
3.6 cGPA
22P and 29M MCAT, latest score is the 29
Chemistry major
California resident
over 200 volunteer hours and over 80 shadowing hours
president and founder of a premedical club/ medical missions club on campus for 2 years (club is still running)
2 years clinical research
worked for all of senior year for environmental lab
currently working at the same lab full time as a technician

I applied to 20-30 schools both times.
My LOR were strong, but from a chemistry professor, chemistry TA (with a PhD), humanities, and my boss at work. I never got an interview for either cycle.
I finished completing all my secondaries by the end of August.
Will not having a bio LOR affect me?

Should I retake the MCAT and give it a third shot? or should I apply to SMP programs?

What schools did you apply to? Typically that has a big affect on your admissions. I don't know whether this will be that helpful to you, however, I do know there have been several new schools opened up, apply to them.

Originally Posted by NNM

I need help with deciding on a program. My GPA is fine about 3.7, and rising every quarter, however, my MCAT seems to be an issue, that is bothering me. Are there any post-bac or these "SMP's" that are heavily geared towards MCAT prep? I have a 25M on my MCAT and would like to raise it.

While there are indeed some programs that are geared toward MCAT prep, I don't think it's worth pursuing. At best, you're paying a ton of money for something that could be accomplished with a few hundred dollars, your local library, and a good study plan. At worst, you don't raise your MCAT and you also damage your GPA with the classes. On the other hand, maybe a Kaplan program or the like would be a good idea if you think it would be helpful, because the price would be an order of magnitude less than a university program.

There are no SMPs that would fit the bill. The "Special" part of SMP means you're taking medical school classes and being graded on the med student curve. It's only meant as a last shot at GPA remediation, to prove that your undergrad GPA is not indicative of your actual abilities. You need to already have a solid MCAT, ECs, LORs, etc before you bother with an SMP, because it won't help with any of that. Furthermore, most reputable SMPs wouldn't even accept a person who is unlikely to subsequently get into medical school, because the program's numbers would take a hit. Right now you're lucky that you have a good GPA. The worst thing you could do is get into an SMP and get a B-average, making your journey immeasurably harder when all you really needed to do was bump up your MCAT.

Hi, I need help deciding on whether I should go to a smp program. I am currently in my third year of a biology phd program but I don't want to continue with my phd and will probably leave with a masters since I want to pursue a career in medicine. I haven't taken the mcats yet but my Gre scores are in the 90%. I was recently accept to tufts mbs program and I can't decide whether it would be worth it to go and whether a smp would help in my situation. Anyone have any advice? How helpful are smps in helping one get in to med school? Thanks!

Originally Posted by member3377

Hi, I need help deciding on whether I should go to a smp program. I am currently in my third year of a biology phd program but I don't want to continue with my phd and will probably leave with a masters since I want to pursue a career in medicine. I haven't taken the mcats yet but my Gre scores are in the 90%. I was recently accept to tufts mbs program and I can't decide whether it would be worth it to go and whether a smp would help in my situation. Anyone have any advice? How helpful are smps in helping one get in to med school? Thanks!

Can't help you without knowing your undergrad GPAs.

If you don't have any clinical experience yet (volunteering in a hospital, shadowing physicians) then you're not ready to make a decision about pursuing med school yet.

Originally Posted by anamaly1

I have applied to MD schools for the last two cycles and have been denied. My stats are:

3.53 sGPA
3.6 cGPA
22P and 29M MCAT, latest score is the 29
Chemistry major
California resident
over 200 volunteer hours and over 80 shadowing hours
president and founder of a premedical club/ medical missions club on campus for 2 years (club is still running)
2 years clinical research
worked for all of senior year for environmental lab
currently working at the same lab full time as a technician

I applied to 20-30 schools both times.
My LOR were strong, but from a chemistry professor, chemistry TA (with a PhD), humanities, and my boss at work. I never got an interview for either cycle.
I finished completing all my secondaries by the end of August.
Will not having a bio LOR affect me?

Should I retake the MCAT and give it a third shot? or should I apply to SMP programs?

I think you would get better info in the reapplicant forum. If you applied to all the UCs, and you didn't get any interviews, then there's something seriously wrong with your app. Your essays may be bad, your LORs may be bad, maybe you applied late, maybe you took too long on secondaries.

Absolutely don't reapply without acquiring:
1. at least one major new asset (such as a completed SMP or a completed traditional masters)
2. an above average MCAT score (CA average is 32+)
3. at least one fresh LOR
4. completely rewritten essays reviewed by adults who aren't afraid to tell you the truth

Consider hiring MedEdits or Judy Colwell.

Not quitting got me in.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by NNM

I need help with deciding on a program. My GPA is fine about 3.7, and rising every quarter, however, my MCAT seems to be an issue, that is bothering me. Are there any post-bac or these "SMP's" that are heavily geared towards MCAT prep? I have a 25M on my MCAT and would like to raise it.

SMP: about $50k
MCAT prep: about $1500

Originally Posted by NNM

I need help with deciding on a program. My GPA is fine about 3.7, and rising every quarter, however, my MCAT seems to be an issue, that is bothering me. Are there any post-bac or these "SMP's" that are heavily geared towards MCAT prep? I have a 25M on my MCAT and would like to raise it.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

SMP: about $50k
MCAT prep: about $1500

What Midlife said...

And if you did a Kaplan course and it didn't work; try 1-on-1 tutoring that the major tutoring services offer. Its typically about $3k-4k - but thats still a lot less than an SMP

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

Can't help you without knowing your undergrad GPAs.

If you don't have any clinical experience yet (volunteering in a hospital, shadowing physicians) then you're not ready to make a decision about pursuing med school yet.

my undergrad gpa was 3.63 and sgpa ~3.5. I have done some volunteering in a hospital but no shadowing. Is it worthwhile to go to a SMP or would you recommend other options for getting into medical school?
thanks!

My undergrad cGPA is 3.36 and sGPA is 3.25, MCAT 24 (retaking this summer)
Is UMDNJ BMS right for me? I am hoping to take some classes with their medical students.
Strong PS and LOR, 2 Publications, 2.5 years of reaserch, lots of volunteering and shadowing.

Any advice on doing a SMP or not?

THANKS A LOT !

Originally Posted by member3377

my undergrad gpa was 3.63 and sgpa ~3.5. I have done some volunteering in a hospital but no shadowing. Is it worthwhile to go to a SMP or would you recommend other options for getting into medical school?
thanks!

An SMP is an expensive way to recover from a low GPA (such as 3.0-3.4) by doing most of the first year of med school as an audition for med school. Your GPA is too high to spend that money, but people with normal GPAs do SMPs sometimes.

If you're missing physics or other typical prereqs, that's not what an SMP is for.

I suggest working on a schedule to apply next June (2013). It's too late to get an app together for this year.

To Do List:
1. Get an MSAR to learn about specific med schools (and then study admissions websites for schools of interest). It's pretty normal to apply to 25, including all of your state's public schools
2. Complete prereqs (one year each, with labs, of genchem/ochem/bio/physics, plus anything a med school wants to require)
3. Start MCAT prep in early 2013, and take the exam (by April for the advantage of an early app submission...and no later than June)
4. Start your personal statement now, to maximize feedback from reviewers
5. Start working on letters of recommendation from faculty and employers
6. Keep doing clinical volunteering, and get physicians to let you shadow
7. Save your pennies

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by mdortho

My undergrad cGPA is 3.36 and sGPA is 3.25, MCAT 24 (retaking this summer)
Is UMDNJ BMS right for me? I am hoping to take some classes with their medical students.
Strong PS and LOR, 2 Publications, 2.5 years of reaserch, lots of volunteering and shadowing.

Any advice on doing a SMP or not?

THANKS A LOT !

Your GPA says "yes" to an SMP, but I suggest that you should get your MCAT up over average (31+) before you try to get in a classroom with med students (which is where you'll be in an SMP).

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by pellychacal

Thanks for the input, but why before? (panning on doing so but just curious)

A good score on the MCAT would indicate:
- that you have mastered the content in the prereqs, which is more or less a basis for succeeding in med school coursework
- that you have the test taking skills to not get crushed like a bug in the constant med school exams which are considerably more difficult than undergrad science exams, on average

Generally you don't want to start an SMP without being honestly and legitimately ready for med school (regardless of admissions events). Bad grades in an SMP are very expensive mistakes.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by mdortho

My undergrad cGPA is 3.36 and sGPA is 3.25, MCAT 24 (retaking this summer)
Is UMDNJ BMS right for me? I am hoping to take some classes with their medical students.
Strong PS and LOR, 2 Publications, 2.5 years of reaserch, lots of volunteering and shadowing.

You may not be allowed to take the med school classes until you present a better MCAT. They look at MCAT and GPA when deciding who gets to take the classes with MS-Is and as Midlife said; your GPA says yes but your MCAT says h*ll no.

So I was directed here after making my own thread about wanting to go to DO school. Here is a copy and paste of what I posted, I was told "Dr. Midlife and Robflanker will give you the straight dope on how you stand (be prepared, it will not be sugar-coated)." So let me have it, haha.



Now some help - I started at a CC, transferred to an Ivy League, then graduated from there. At the CC, I took Gen Chem I and II, and Biology I and II (A in all). I took Organic at the ivy league and made a C-. I didn't take the lab or the second part. I took physics and made a W (it was mostly self taught and I don't learn well that way). So now I have to retake Orgo I and II and Physics I and II...but I honestly can't do them at a 4 year due to costs....and none of the nearby CC's offer them at a schedule I can meet without quitting work so...I guess I will have to take them online. Yikes, I know..so my questions!

1. I know this is going to look bad: pre-reqs at CC, go to ivy league and do horrible in upper level pre-reqs (C- and W), then go back to an online school (maybe even an online CC!) to finish them. Will this doom me? I don't know what else to do!

2. Does anyone know of a NY state public college that offers online Physics AND Organic Chemistry. I want to take advantage of TAP, which is a grant in NY, but the college has to be in NY state and I have to be full time (hence I need both physics and orgo to be available). And of course, I need distance learning. I can't find this at all. I could also do it at a private NY college as long as it isn't super expensive.

3. Should I even try this? I'm thinking my record isn't going to let me go to medical school - I have a 4.0 from a CC, a 3.2 from an Ivy League (with a C- in organic and a W), and a 4.0 from an accelerated nursing program....with all pre-reqs from CC possibly. This sounds bad enough...but the REALLY bad thing is number 4 (below).

4. I remembered something after looking at my record and GPA that I had COMPLETELY forgotten about...I took 3 courses one summer from an online community college and then forgot about them and failed. They were worth a total of 6 credits, and I received a W (in a 3 credit creative writing course) and an F in medical terminology (1 credit) and an F in nutrition (2 credits). This happened because I signed up for these courses to meet my nursing school pre-reqs (nutrition and medical terminology), but what I thought were summer courses were actually like 5 months long and lasted into my junior year at my main university. The assignments were so infrequent that I forgot about the courses once school started back up, and the next thing I know I have 3 F's. Only the creative writing professor understood my story and changed it to a W, but the others are there to stay.

God, your post is all over the place. I am going to answer in red, in the post itself cos I can't keep track of it to make a more formalized typical response.

Originally Posted by MyOwnPath

So I was directed here after making my own thread about wanting to go to DO school. Here is a copy and paste of what I posted, I was told "Dr. Midlife and Robflanker will give you the straight dope on how you stand (be prepared, it will not be sugar-coated)." So let me have it, haha.

Now some help - I started at a CC, transferred to an Ivy League, then graduated from there. At the CC, I took Gen Chem I and II, and Biology I and II (A in all not impressive just FYI, its a CC, its pretty much a joke). I took Organic at the ivy league and made a C- bad sign. I didn't take the lab or the second part. I took physics and made a W (it was mostly self taught (i hate to break it to you but most of med school is self-taught... my entire anatomy course was and I don't learn well that way). So now I have to retake Orgo I and II and Physics I and II...but I honestly can't do them at a 4 year due to costs....and none of the nearby CC's offer them at a schedule I can meet without quitting work so...I guess I will have to take them online NO NO NO NO, pump the brakes and hold up. Online classes are viewed worse than CC classes. You are going backwards and your application is turning into a giant clusterf*ck. So far you have proven you cannot do science at the 4-year level. Thats essentially considered the bare minimum for med school. If you continue to take CC classes and take online courses, you do nothing to dispel that image. Work for a few years to save money to pay for 4-year classes; otherwise you are just wasting your time and money. Yikes, I know..so my questions!

1. I know this is going to look bad: pre-reqs at CC, go to ivy league and do horrible in upper level pre-reqs (C- and W), then go back to an online school (maybe even an online CC!) to finish them. Will this doom me? I don't know what else to do! Yes, doom.

2. Does anyone know of a NY state public college that offers online Physics AND Organic Chemistry. I want to take advantage of TAP, which is a grant in NY, but the college has to be in NY state and I have to be full time (hence I need both physics and orgo to be available). And of course, I need distance learning. I can't find this at all. I could also do it at a private NY college as long as it isn't super expensive. see previous rant about online.

3. Should I even try this? I'm thinking my record isn't going to let me go to medical school - I have a 4.0 from a CC, a 3.2 from an Ivy League (with a C- in organic and a W), and a 4.0 from an accelerated nursing program....with all pre-reqs from CC possibly. This sounds bad enough...but the REALLY bad thing is number 4 (below).firstly, not all med schools accept pre-reqs from CC so you need to look into that. and then its not going to wow anyone that you did. a kid who took them at a 4-year and got the same grade, will get in over you 9/10 times

4. I remembered something after looking at my record and GPA that I had COMPLETELY forgotten about...I took 3 courses one summer from an online community college and then forgot about them and failed. They were worth a total of 6 credits, and I received a W (in a 3 credit creative writing course) and an F in medical terminology (1 credit) and an F in nutrition (2 credits). This happened because I signed up for these courses to meet my nursing school pre-reqs (nutrition and medical terminology), but what I thought were summer courses were actually like 5 months long and lasted into my junior year at my main university. The assignments were so infrequent that I forgot about the courses once school started back up, and the next thing I know I have 3 F's. Only the creative writing professor understood my story and changed it to a W, but the others are there to stay.You have got to be effing kidding me? This is where you start to trp up my troll radar. Firstly, this does count towards your overall cGPA so I am going to imagine this tanks it a little bit. So you need to come up with an accurate cGPA using a calculator (google it, there are plenty of AMCAS downloadable spreadsheets other kind folks made).

Overall - you need to get it together. You are all over the place. You need to settle down, earn some money, take 4-year classes for a while, do well in them (like 3.6+), and then think about this med school thing.

That's my thoughts.

Are there any SMP's that guarantee interview or med school spots if you achieve a certain mark, etc??

Originally Posted by UCUCUC

Are there any SMP's that guarantee interview or med school spots if you achieve a certain mark, etc??

Yup - discussed at length; try searching for the threads

I just graduated from college and I'm thinking of entering a post-bacc or special masters program in order to get into medical school. My undergraduate GPA is 3.062 while her science GPA is 2.852 (Not Medical School material ). Now it looks like the MCAT is a main priority to increase my chances (Along with the personal statement and letters of recommendation). I've already signed up for a Kaplan course which starts next week. I've started looking at the books. I'm also thinking of applying to DO schools along with MD schools, but I want to wait and make myself more competitive before applying. Given this information, should I consider applying to post-bacc or special masters program?

Originally Posted by ET5412

I just graduated from college and I'm thinking of entering a post-bacc or special masters program in order to get into medical school. My undergraduate GPA is 3.062 while her science GPA is 2.852 (Not Medical School material ). Now it looks like the MCAT is a main priority to increase my chances (Along with the personal statement and letters of recommendation). I've already signed up for a Kaplan course which starts next week. I've started looking at the books. I'm also thinking of applying to DO schools along with MD schools, but I want to wait and make myself more competitive before applying. Given this information, should I consider applying to post-bacc or special masters program?

Yes cos you have no shot at a MD school with that GPA, and not in great shape for a DO school.

You need an SMP, not a post-bac IMO

Do you guys think I should apply in this coming cycle or wait till next year considering that I am going to be starting the Masters in Global Medicine program at USC in august?

BCPM GPA: 3.378
All Other GPA: 3.455
MCAT: 29 R (10P, 8V, 11B)
Took MCAT again on 4/28, haven't gotten results yet. Hopefully in 32-33 range.
California Resident

Did 2 years of research as undergrad and have a co-author publication. Currently working full time as a Research Technician at a Medical Center. I have been volunteering at a rehabilitation institute and also have been shadowing 2 orthopedic surgeons.

Thanks Guys

Originally Posted by johnychen80

Do you guys think I should apply in this coming cycle or wait till next year considering that I am going to be starting the Masters in Global Medicine program at USC in august?

BCPM GPA: 3.378
All Other GPA: 3.455
MCAT: 29 R (10P, 8V, 11B)
Took MCAT again on 4/28, haven't gotten results yet. Hopefully in 32-33 range.
California Resident

Did 2 years of research as undergrad and have a co-author publication. Currently working full time as a Research Technician at a Medical Center. I have been volunteering at a rehabilitation institute and also have been shadowing 2 orthopedic surgeons.

Thanks Guys

Wait - lowish GPA, low MCAT (at the moment). Or if you have $$$ lying around and can afford two app cycles, then go for it.
If you get that MCAT of 32-33 then go ahead and apply, but don't only apply in Cali. the CA schools are tougher to get into and require higher stats - your stats are low to avg in general (provided you get the MCAT), and are just plain low for cali schools

undergrad: top 15 private university, just graduated may 2012
major: biomedical engineering
MCAT: 32M (11PS,10V,11BS)
decent ECs, research experience

i applied to georgetown SMP, NJMS MBS, and RWJMS MBS, all in mid-april for their special 1-year masters programs, no response from any of them yet.

my pre-med advisor keeps telling me to do one of these programs and apply for the 2013 MD cycle, this is currently what i am planning to do.

however, my faculty advisor continues to suggest i do one of these masters programs as well, but then work or do something else for a year after the masters so that the med schools can receive my full masters grades and that i can have more medical experience, and then apply to the 2014 MD cycle. so i am a bit confused now as to what my best chances are for getting in to MD school.

advice on all of this? 2013 or 2014 cycle, according to my stats?
also - worth retaking the MCAT or no?

Originally Posted by futuresurgeon83

undergrad: top 15 private university, just graduated may 2012
major: biomedical engineering
cGPA: 3.34
sGPA: 3.25
MCAT: 32M (11PS,10V,11BS)
decent ECs, research experience

i applied to georgetown SMP, NJMS MBS, and RWJMS MBS, all in mid-april for their special 1-year masters programs, no response from any of them yet.

my pre-med advisor keeps telling me to do one of these programs and apply for the 2013 MD cycle, this is currently what i am planning to do.

however, my faculty advisor continues to suggest i do one of these masters programs as well, but then work or do something else for a year after the masters so that the med schools can receive my full masters grades and that i can have more medical experience, and then apply to the 2014 MD cycle. so i am a bit confused now as to what my best chances are for getting in to MD school.

advice on all of this? 2013 or 2014 cycle, according to my stats?
also - worth retaking the MCAT or no?

Personally i'd wait for the 2014 cycle. You have a good MCAT, but a GPA substantially below average (more than 1 standard deviation).

I think u should follow your faculty advisor's advice

Also, don't post the same post in multiple threads - it leads to disjointed and confusing discussions; it is also against SDN's policy

Hey SDN, this is my first post on this forum.

So I'm graduating in 3 weeks.

California Resident
cGPA: 3.33
sGPA: 3.0
MCAT: 24R- 8PS, 8V, 8BS. I just retook the MCAT last week. It was tough, hoping to break 30, but probably gonna be high 20s :/

I would say my ECs are my strongest part of my app (probably the reason for my low GPA), and 3 years research experience (no publications)


Is it a waste of my time/money to apply to MD schools this cycle, or should I apply to lower-tier MD schools, as well as DO schools/postbac/SMPs?

Can you guys please give me a link to some postbac/SMP programs still available for this cycle?

edit:*3 Cs (Calc 2, Biochem, Physiology)


Thanks!

Originally Posted by UncleDolan

Hey SDN, this is my first post on this forum.

So I'm graduating in 3 weeks.

California Resident
cGPA: 3.33
sGPA: 3.0
MCAT: 24R- 8PS, 8V, 8BS. I just retook the MCAT last week. It was tough, hoping to break 30, but probably gonna be high 20s :/

I would say my ECs are my strongest part of my app (probably the reason for my low GPA), and 3 years research experience (no publications)

Is it a waste of my time/money to apply to MD schools this cycle, or should I apply to lower-tier MD schools, as well as DO schools/postbac/SMPs?

Can you guys please give me a link to some postbac/SMP programs still available for this cycle?

edit:*3 Cs (Calc 2, Biochem, Physiology)

Thanks!

Yes it is a waste of money to apply to MD programs, based on your GPA, if you can't get a 30+ MCAT. You have a shot at DOs tho

I don't know of much or anything that still has open apps at this point