Worst thing you've seen a medstudent do

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Originally Posted by Apollyon

How many times can someone reflexively blurt out something? More than once is going to be taken as an impulse control problem, a lack of professionalism, or possibly a consideration of some type of learning disability.

Half of the audience on Jeopardy! are people that were not selected for that show's taping (used to be 50000 took the test, 5000 passed, but what has stayed constant is that, from that pool, 500 are randomly selected to come out to Hollywood, and 150 actually get on the show), and, among those are those that reflexively can't stop shouting out the questions; in those cases, they have to stop taping and insert a drop-in question. According to the Jeopardy! book, Alex REALLY hates to stop taping.

If a med student has a compulsion to reflexively blurt out the answer, it is going to bite them in the ass just as much as the gleeful nitpicker. The "why" won't matter, as the result is the same.

Ehh I think its mostly the pressure of get graded that makes alot of people hyperfocused leading to that sort of behavior...

I have had residents/attendings tell me things that breaks the law of thermodynamics, try to insert CDs upside down, count incorrect, identify anatomy incorrectly...etc. Granted I never said anything, BUT its was immediately obvious to me as it was during a session when they were pimping me.

I would think most people could filter it...but nevertheless, I am just saying I am more alert to these things in the clinic than relaxing at home.

Med Student in my ED who was very excited to put a foley in a demented lady, despite being told to let the nurse do it by both the resident and the nurse. Apparently a few minutes later they hear some screaming. So instead of asking to do it alongside the nurse, they go in the room when no one's looking

What happened to this student^??

Originally Posted by Apollyon

How many times can someone reflexively blurt out something? More than once is going to be taken as an impulse control problem, a lack of professionalism, or possibly a consideration of some type of learning disability.

Half of the audience on Jeopardy! are people that were not selected for that show's taping (used to be 50000 took the test, 5000 passed, but what has stayed constant is that, from that pool, 500 are randomly selected to come out to Hollywood, and 150 actually get on the show), and, among those are those that reflexively can't stop shouting out the questions; in those cases, they have to stop taping and insert a drop-in question. According to the Jeopardy! book, Alex REALLY hates to stop taping.

If a med student has a compulsion to reflexively blurt out the answer, it is going to bite them in the ass just as much as the gleeful nitpicker. The "why" won't matter, as the result is the same.

Awesomely articulate response.

Originally Posted by winkleweizen

What happened to this student^??

well, other than proving that he didn't know how to put in a foley by macerating the vaginal tissue, the director of medical education was called and came in and spoke to the student that day.

Originally Posted by Apollyon

How many times can someone reflexively blurt out something? More than once is going to be taken as an impulse control problem, a lack of professionalism, or possibly a consideration of some type of learning disability.

Half of the audience on Jeopardy! are people that were not selected for that show's taping (used to be 50000 took the test, 5000 passed, but what has stayed constant is that, from that pool, 500 are randomly selected to come out to Hollywood, and 150 actually get on the show), and, among those are those that reflexively can't stop shouting out the questions; in those cases, they have to stop taping and insert a drop-in question. According to the Jeopardy! book, Alex REALLY hates to stop taping.

If a med student has a compulsion to reflexively blurt out the answer, it is going to bite them in the ass just as much as the gleeful nitpicker. The "why" won't matter, as the result is the same.

Well as far as we know, "how many times" is once. It's a completely inane and inconsequential detail not worth mentioning and yet somehow it simultaneously deserves all the thought and political maneuvering of pointing out a missed NSTEMI. Seems contradictory. And, really, whose reputation can possibly be so precarious that reporting sutures +/- one is going to leave you under a bus?

A pattern of such behavior, a condescending tone, a malicious intent, etc. change the situation entirely. But I'm really not seeing the point in crucifying some medical student who spoke a little faster than they thought one time at the end of a shift. Seems a lot better than the student who never questions or corrects anything...

The reality is most likely that the student in question had many other negatives to his credit which were not conveyed in the story.

Originally Posted by 8654Marine

Bad virus,

This thread is about medical students.

Don't worry, there's plenty of stupidity to go around involving interns, residents, and attendings. Myself included.

So don't get butt hurt about the comments. It's all part of the fun.

Thanks for the reminder brother. I checked and my sphincter tone is still intact. Quivering, but still there.

I'm on an outside rotation (trauma) called to the ED to admit a patient. Med Student is suturing patient. When I enter the room, monitor is beeping due to patient's POx in mid-80's (multiple rib fractures in an older gentleman). I get the nasal cannula out, med student is between me and the wall oxygen (small room), I say, hey med student, plug this into the oxygen. Med student: I'm sterile! Me: um, so? Plug this in! Med student: No, I'm sterile! Me: you're not performing a sterile procedure. . . . And, well, you can put on new gloves. . . . Med student (getting extremely pissed off at me): I'm sterile! Me: basically physically leaps over the patient to plug in the O2.

Originally Posted by Kasey

I'm on an outside rotation (trauma) called to the ED to admit a patient. Med Student is suturing patient. When I enter the room, monitor is beeping due to patient's POx in mid-80's (multiple rib fractures in an older gentleman). I get the nasal cannula out, med student is between me and the wall oxygen (small room), I say, hey med student, plug this into the oxygen. Med student: I'm sterile! Me: um, so? Plug this in! Med student: No, I'm sterile! Me: you're not performing a sterile procedure. . . . And, well, you can put on new gloves. . . . Med student (getting extremely pissed off at me): I'm sterile! Me: basically physically leaps over the patient to plug in the O2.

Dr. House was your med student?

Originally Posted by Kasey

I'm on an outside rotation (trauma) called to the ED to admit a patient. Med Student is suturing patient. When I enter the room, monitor is beeping due to patient's POx in mid-80's (multiple rib fractures in an older gentleman). I get the nasal cannula out, med student is between me and the wall oxygen (small room), I say, hey med student, plug this into the oxygen. Med student: I'm sterile! Me: um, so? Plug this in! Med student: No, I'm sterile! Me: you're not performing a sterile procedure. . . . And, well, you can put on new gloves. . . . Med student (getting extremely pissed off at me): I'm sterile! Me: basically physically leaps over the patient to plug in the O2.

All honesty, don't think the med student was that wrong here.

He was probably told to use sterile technique by his resident/attending (whether that was necessary is another story).

He should have backed away and let you plug in the oxygen, but telling him to change sterile gloves so you didn't have to walk around him to plug something in isn't right.

I physically couldn't walk around him, that's the point. He was physically blocking me from being able to plug in the oxygen and refusing to move or help.

Originally Posted by pinipig523

I've had an instance where a med student tried to correct me during ER team sign out - it's very annoying and it doesn't get the student anywhere.

So, as the senior resident have like 15 patients on the team, I'm signing out my junior residents' patients.

I said, "So I placed 7 simple interrupteds."

Student goes - "Actually it was 8."

I was like - "Who cares. 7 or 8, they have to come out in 10 days. Who cares."

He apologized after the sign out. Needless to say, he didn't get any brownie points. It's always good form to try to throw your senior resident under the bus in front of everyone.

You never know when your resident or attending is trying to see if you were paying attention either. This could have gone both ways. That said I wouldnt correct my resident in front of anyone. After the fact possibly

Originally Posted by Kasey

I physically couldn't walk around him, that's the point. He was physically blocking me from being able to plug in the oxygen and refusing to move or help.

Refusing to move is another story.

Originally Posted by Kasey

I physically couldn't walk around him, that's the point. He was physically blocking me from being able to plug in the oxygen and refusing to move or help.

Are you a resident?

Yyyeah... maybe that student needs an ABC reminder.... hypoxia trumps lac repair...



I once had a patient working with me who liked to lie about the physical exam. Was interviewing a patient while the nurse was in the room charting. Per the vet RN whom i respect and trust, the student never laid hands on the patient.... let alone do the rectal that he said was negative

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

All honesty, don't think the med student was that wrong here.

He was probably told to use sterile technique by his resident/attending (whether that was necessary is another story).

He should have backed away and let you plug in the oxygen, but telling him to change sterile gloves so you didn't have to walk around him to plug something in isn't right.

I've gotta disagree here, how hard would it be to get another pair of gloves? I don't think you can justify watching this guy de-sat for the sake of a simple lac repair

Originally Posted by OccupyTheED

I've gotta disagree here, how hard would it be to get another pair of gloves? I don't think you can justify watching this guy de-sat for the sake of a simple lac repair

No what the Med student did was obviously dumb. But I wonder if it was a situation where he was told by someone else to do something or pay special attention to being sterile and when a wrench got thrown in that plan his brain short circuited

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

No what the Med student did was obviously dumb. But I wonder if it was a situation where he was told by someone else to do something or pay special attention to being sterile and when a wrench got thrown in that plan his brain short circuited

You're probably right, but that's one of those situations where you've got to take into account the context. I think a lot of us are somewhat robotic once we start our rotations but at some point you've gotta develop the ability to adjust on the fly.

Originally Posted by OccupyTheED

You're probably right, but that's one of those situations where you've got to take into account the context. I think a lot of us are somewhat robotic once we start our rotations but at some point you've gotta develop the ability to adjust on the fly.

Like in residency lol

Originally Posted by pickupthepace

I once had a patient working with me who liked to lie about the physical exam. Was interviewing a patient while the nurse was in the room charting. Per the vet RN whom i respect and trust, the student never laid hands on the patient.... let alone do the rectal that he said was negative

Patient, or student? Or, why would you have patients working with you?

Originally Posted by Apollyon

Patient, or student? Or, why would you have patients working with you?

ROFL! Does this guy have his patients do their own rectal and pelvic exams or does he put two patients in a room at a time before saying, "Have at it," and closing the door?

Originally Posted by Kasey

I'm on an outside rotation (trauma) called to the ED to admit a patient. Med Student is suturing patient. When I enter the room, monitor is beeping due to patient's POx in mid-80's (multiple rib fractures in an older gentleman). I get the nasal cannula out, med student is between me and the wall oxygen (small room), I say, hey med student, plug this into the oxygen. Med student: I'm sterile! Me: um, so? Plug this in! Med student: No, I'm sterile! Me: you're not performing a sterile procedure. . . . And, well, you can put on new gloves. . . . Med student (getting extremely pissed off at me): I'm sterile! Me: basically physically leaps over the patient to plug in the O2.

And you played the game of "I am right and you are not" for the sake of proving your superiority.

The student was dense (possible) but more likely had zoned out doing the "important" task assigned to him/her.

A simple solution would have been to instruct the student to step back / step away, thus allowing you access to the outlet and not compromising the student's task

Sterile procedure or DRE, you shouldn't need someone hooking up O2 to redirect your efforts when the pulse ox is reading in the 80s. The student was screwing up long before he refused to break sterile technique. I don't think it's expecting too much of a medical student to realize when they need to "get an adult" so to speak...

Nvm

As a resident myself, non-EM thankfully, this thread is absolutely pathetic.
They're students, we were in the their shoes years if not months ago. We're still students. The irony of this thread is that it's in the ED forum.

Originally Posted by juiceman311

As a resident myself, non-EM thankfully, this thread is absolutely pathetic.
They're students, we were in the their shoes years if not months ago. We're still students. The irony of this thread is that it's in the ED forum.

Did you regularly threaten to report your attending for harassment, perform DREs with two fingers on the wrong patient, or lie about doing a physical exam?

Guess so

And why is it ironic that its in the ED forum?

2 fingers? Oh god why?

Originally Posted by juiceman311

As a resident myself, non-EM thankfully, this thread is absolutely pathetic.
They're students, we were in the their shoes years if not months ago. We're still students. The irony of this thread is that it's in the ED forum.

Congrats on becoming an obnoxious stereotype in just 2 years. For all our sakes, please never forget how important you are.

Why are medical students ragging on the resident who claims to understand that mistakes happen? In the Med student boards the general consensus often is "my resident is a big fat jerk face" (intended to be read with the voice of a child). So they are *******s until they ease up and suddenly they are obnoxious?

I miss the funny stories on this thread. I will be the first to admit we mess up as med students and there definitely are a few lazy students out there. Let's bring back more of the funny stories.

Originally Posted by juiceman311

As a resident myself, non-EM thankfully, this thread is absolutely pathetic.
They're students, we were in the their shoes years if not months ago. We're still students. The irony of this thread is that it's in the ED forum.

Swing and a miss, but you get non-style points for also being an insulting, non-collegial *****!

First, if you've read the thread, it isn't about people making mistakes because they are new or inexperienced, for the most part - the things mentioned won't be changed by training, although possibly by aversive stimulus. Personality is rather fixed.

Second, you're urology, either an intern or PGY-2. Also, on SDN, under the guise of "information", you've posted how great of a student you were (hard working but not brown nosing or the like), your stellar Steps 1 and 2, and your massively egalitarian nature ("If you're not the attending or fellow, I'm calling you by your first name" or something to that effect). However, you're not egalitarian - you think you are better, and we, as a group, are a lesser quality of people. Really? Aristocratic much?

And, the final irony is something that you yourself posted:

Originally Posted by juiceman311

I hate medical students more and more every day.

So, very junior urology resident, thank you for graciously insulting us as a group, and thinking we are less than you (and, therefore, you are better than us). Likewise, you are quite genteel with your "irony". I guess a lesson you can learn (and apply, so that this thread, or it's spirit, won't apply to you) is that "it is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Originally Posted by Apollyon

Swing and a miss, but you get non-style points for also being an insulting, non-collegial *****!

First, if you've read the thread, it isn't about people making mistakes because they are new or inexperienced, for the most part - the things mentioned won't be changed by training, although possibly by aversive stimulus. Personality is rather fixed.

Second, you're urology, either an intern or PGY-2. Also, on SDN, under the guise of "information", you've posted how great of a student you were (hard working but not brown nosing or the like), your stellar Steps 1 and 2, and your massively egalitarian nature ("If you're not the attending or fellow, I'm calling you by your first name" or something to that effect). However, you're not egalitarian - you think you are better, and we, as a group, are a lesser quality of people. Really? Aristocratic much?

And, the final irony is something that you yourself posted:



So, very junior urology resident, thank you for graciously insulting us as a group, and thinking we are less than you (and, therefore, you are better than us). Likewise, you are quite genteel with your "irony". I guess a lesson you can learn (and apply, so that this thread, or it's spirit, won't apply to you) is that "it is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Patient comes in for belly pain several days after abdominal surgery. The rushed medical student asks about recent bowel movements, and reports to the senior resident that the patent has had two stools of average volume and consistency in the past 24 hours. He glosses over the physical exam as being 'within normal limits', head to toe.

Lessons from this student:
1) Before taking a history, do a chart check to make sure your patient isn't schizophrenic
2) Before reporting on stooling, check either the patient or the chart to confirm he doesn't have an osteomy.

Originally Posted by 8654Marine

I got another one: The admitting team came to the ED to admit a patient. I overheard the resident ask the student to present the case. To paraphrase that student's reply: "I didn't interview that person. I figured since you and the intern talked to him, I wouldn't waste my time"

That student had a long 1:1 discussion w/ the resident..

FWIW I feel for this student, tactless as that response may have been. You learn pretty fast that doing a 'fake' H&P on a patient after your Intern and Senior resident have already devised an assessment and plan is just about worthless educationally, especially in the ER. Once they know that the patient is squared away a real discussion of your assessment and plan becomes a teaching exercise and, like resident lectures and feedback, is relegated to a later period (that never actualy happens) while the real doctors work on more urgent problems.

A good ER rotation is a modified sub-I. Patient comes in, senior resident briefly triages to make sure there's nothing life threatening, Med Student takes an H&P and writes out a plan and orders, and then the senior resident discusses the plan, does his follow up interview, and either signs off on your orders or rewrites them. If the ER is too crowded to give medical students their own beds to cover without Interns cross covering, then its too crowded for medical students period.

Originally Posted by Apollyon

Swing and a miss, but you get non-style points for also being an insulting, non-collegial *****!

First, if you've read the thread, it isn't about people making mistakes because they are new or inexperienced, for the most part - the things mentioned won't be changed by training, although possibly by aversive stimulus. Personality is rather fixed.

Second, you're urology, either an intern or PGY-2. Also, on SDN, under the guise of "information", you've posted how great of a student you were (hard working but not brown nosing or the like), your stellar Steps 1 and 2, and your massively egalitarian nature ("If you're not the attending or fellow, I'm calling you by your first name" or something to that effect). However, you're not egalitarian - you think you are better, and we, as a group, are a lesser quality of people. Really? Aristocratic much?

And, the final irony is something that you yourself posted:



So, very junior urology resident, thank you for graciously insulting us as a group, and thinking we are less than you (and, therefore, you are better than us). Likewise, you are quite genteel with your "irony". I guess a lesson you can learn (and apply, so that this thread, or it's spirit, won't apply to you) is that "it is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Epic post.

Originally Posted by Apollyon

Swing and a miss, but you get non-style points for also being an insulting, non-collegial *****!

First, if you've read the thread, it isn't about people making mistakes because they are new or inexperienced, for the most part - the things mentioned won't be changed by training, although possibly by aversive stimulus. Personality is rather fixed.

Second, you're urology, either an intern or PGY-2. Also, on SDN, under the guise of "information", you've posted how great of a student you were (hard working but not brown nosing or the like), your stellar Steps 1 and 2, and your massively egalitarian nature ("If you're not the attending or fellow, I'm calling you by your first name" or something to that effect). However, you're not egalitarian - you think you are better, and we, as a group, are a lesser quality of people. Really? Aristocratic much?

And, the final irony is something that you yourself posted:



So, very junior urology resident, thank you for graciously insulting us as a group, and thinking we are less than you (and, therefore, you are better than us). Likewise, you are quite genteel with your "irony". I guess a lesson you can learn (and apply, so that this thread, or it's spirit, won't apply to you) is that "it is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

aaaaaaaannnnnnnndddddddd............


BOOM! goes the dynamite

boom goes the dynamite.jpg

well worth the time spent.

Originally Posted by ToxicChic

aaaaaaaannnnnnnndddddddd............


BOOM! goes the dynamite


well worth the time spent.

Did you get that from a Tosh.0 episode? Because I just watched it a few days ago again.

I heard this story from one of the surgery guys.

They are in the ED admitting a trauma pt. The resident tells one of the med students (whose primary language was not english) that they needed to put a foley catheter in.

He tells them to make sure to use the betaine solution on the cotton balls, and turns around for a few minutes to fill out the H and P.

To his shock, he turns back and sees the student rubbing the betadine soaked cotton balls all over the pt's scrotum. When he asks what the hell he is doing, the student says, "You told me to be sure to get his cock and balls no?"

I guess you could understand the mistake lol.

Originally Posted by stretched

I heard this story from one of the surgery guys.

They are in the ED admitting a trauma pt. The resident tells one of the med students (whose primary language was not english) that they needed to put a foley catheter in.

He tells them to make sure to use the betaine solution on the cotton balls, and turns around for a few minutes to fill out the H and P.

To his shock, he turns back and sees the student rubbing the betadine soaked cotton balls all over the pt's scrotum. When he asks what the hell he is doing, the student says, "You told me to be sure to get his cock and balls no?"

I guess you could understand the mistake lol.

LMFAO, wow. That is something he will never live down!

Awesome lol

Originally Posted by RafaTech

I'm only a medical student but I had this funny experience with a M4 sub-I on my medicine rotation. We were both taking care of a 19 yo man that was admitted for hematemesis after an episode of binge drinking. Our attending wanted us to to a rectal exam for a FOBT so the M4, a kind of socially strange kid, offered to do the rectal. We both go into the room together and tell the college kid that we need to do a rectal after which he obviously didn't seem too happy about.... Then the M4 goes to grab the gloves in the room and says out loud in front of the patient "Damn, they only have medium gloves, I need some large or extra-large gloves. Hold on, I'll be right back." I was busting up laughing inside because I could see the terror on the patients face...I sometimes wonder if med school needs a screen test for social skills...

I about fell out of my chair when I read this.

Originally Posted by EM2BE

Did you get that from a Tosh.0 episode? Because I just watched it a few days ago again.

Basically... It's a quote several friends use, originally stolen from the show. On a related note, I think his episodes are going downhill, which is tragic. Now sdn stories about "boy scout-style rectals" and the like are my main source of humor. Can't say I'm complaining. I was laughing so hard while reading this thread the other day that there were tears in my eyes. Been a long time since I laughed that hard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_goes_the_dynamite

Originally Posted by DeadCactus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_goes_the_dynamite

"A trademark application on the phrase was filed but ultimately abandoned by a San Diego-based speculator who offered it on t-shirts, saying that part of the proceeds would go to a scholarship fund at Ball State for journalism students."
haha

For all the students feeling bad, at least at my institution, the students are better at calling in the consults than the staff. They have seen and examined the patient as well as reviewed the labs/imaging and weren't just signed out something to try to dump on my service..

Originally Posted by neusu

For all the students feeling bad, at least at my institution, the students are better at calling in the consults than the staff. They have seen and examined the patient as well as reviewed the labs/imaging and weren't just signed out something to try to dump on my service..

umm. ok...

Being a student I don't think I am as as good as a resident on my best day. I just don't have that level of training or responsibility.

Originally Posted by SeekerOfTheTree

Being a student I don't think I am as as good as a resident on my best day. I just don't have that level of training or responsibility.

Not as good meaning what? Not as good at procedures or suturing? Sure, any monkey can be trained to do that. Not as good at performing a thorough examination and succinctly conveying the information without having your ego bruised when a consultant asks you a rather specific question? You're probably better. All too often in medicine we become master's of our own universe in our own mind and when someone else asks us questions that are out of our domain we get defensive. As a med student you generally spend more time gathering information and aren't as offended when you don't know something. Maybe the rest of us can learn from the med students here.

Originally Posted by SeekerOfTheTree

Being a student I don't think I am as as good as a resident on my best day. I just don't have that level of training or responsibility.

without having been there, I would suspect that once "sh*t gets real" you end up learning things in a hurry. i.e. the first week of residency teaches/solidifies things for you in a way the previous 2 years of med school just didnt.

But I dunno, any new interns wanna reflect on that in about a month? Or MS3s want to talk about starting 3rd year along side a green intern?

Originally Posted by neusu

Not as good meaning what? Not as good at procedures or suturing? Sure, any monkey can be trained to do that. Not as good at performing a thorough examination and succinctly conveying the information without having your ego bruised when a consultant asks you a rather specific question? You're probably better. All too often in medicine we become master's of our own universe in our own mind and when someone else asks us questions that are out of our domain we get defensive. As a med student you generally spend more time gathering information and aren't as offended when you don't know something. Maybe the rest of us can learn from the med students here.

What's with the kissing up to med students attitude in a thread where we're trying to tell funny stories? It's like a total non-sequitar.

Originally Posted by Rendar5

What's with the kissing up to med students attitude in a thread where we're trying to tell funny stories? It's like a total non-sequitar.

Sorry