Legality Question

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First time poster as I have a question. I was convicted of a crime (lower than a misdemeanor) as a juvenile. I received my background from Certiphi and it was nowhere to be found (as it should not show up). I was not required to report this on AMCAS and did not, however, I did not report it on one secondary that asks vaguely to report any offense (Yes, I realize I should have but I can't change the past). I may be matriculating to this school. Will this a problem if it did not show up on the Certiphi background check? Could it show up later when starting rotations or something similar? Am I making a this too big of a deal? What should I do or any other thoughts?

what exactly was the charge? simple misdemeanor is the lowest criminal offense so if you did something lower than that it was something on par wtih a traffic citation. you do not need to list it nor will the school know anything certiphi doesnt tell them

As Specter said, if it's below a misdemeanor it shouldn't need to be mentioned. It was likely expunged from your record when you turned 18.

Do the usual, contact a lawyer.

that will not be particularly helpful...

lawyers are experts in law, not medical school policy. Most lawyers will tell you to never disclose anything unless explicitly required to. If there is ambiguity they err on the side of secrecy.

The charge is considered a juvenile petty offense and I am almost positive it has been expunged. I just thought a more extensive background check was done when beginning work in a hospital setting or getting licensed (maybe this is not the case). This offense would not prevent me from getting licensed but the fact that the secondary said "any" offense bothers me if it could somehow come back to the school. And I do not plan on contacting a lawyer as that seems like a hassle and would not be of much help.

licensure is a different issue. They may require you disclose everything. The issue there isnt "can i get away with it" - they are very unlikely to give you any trouble at licensing for mistakes as a kid. But if you lie..... have fun flipping burgers.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

licensure is a different issue. They may require you disclose everything. The issue there isnt "can i get away with it" - they are very unlikely to give you any trouble at licensing for mistakes as a kid. But if you lie..... have fun flipping burgers.

I don't plan on trying to get away with anything when getting licensed nor was I trying to when I didn't disclose this on the secondary. The fact of the matter is-it happened. It wasn't on Certiphi but is there a more extensive background check done that the school sees that would reveal this petty offense committed as a juvenile that is almost certainly expunged?

i wasnt intending to guess at your motives. I was more meaning that at the level of licensure the risk/reward benefit for not disclosing changes dramatically. If certiphi did not include it I would make no further mention of it unless the licensing board asks you to specifically list things that were expunged/would not show up.

I am not sure what residencies expect so someone else could chime in on that.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

i wasnt intending to guess at your motives. I was more meaning that at the level of licensure the risk/reward benefit for not disclosing changes dramatically. If certiphi did not include it I would make no further mention of it unless the licensing board asks you to specifically list things that were expunged/would not show up.

I am not sure what residencies expect so someone else could chime in on that.

I didn't mean to come off negatively I just wanted to make sure others wouldn't get off track or something like that. But thank you for making the point about the licensing, I guess I was just unsure at what point this was done and how much your med school is involve, if at all. I would also like to hear if anyone knows anything in regards to residency or any extra information.

There was a post a while back on the residency forum about a guy that did not disclose an arrest. The question was have you ever been arrested... They found out and threw him out of the residency program abruptly for lying and he ended up being barred from the residency match forever for deliberate deception. Pay attention to the question, and answer it truthfully.

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I dont want to start a new one either. I'm posting from my phone as I have no internet access from my house and my phone won't allow me to do a thorough search. But my question is in regards to getting our own background checks. If we want to get our own background check through the system that AMCAS uses before any acceptances, how would we go about doing so?

Originally Posted by CodeRedDew

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I dont want to start a new one either. I'm posting from my phone as I have no internet access from my house and my phone won't allow me to do a thorough search. But my question is in regards to getting our own background checks. If we want to get our own background check through the system that AMCAS uses before any acceptances, how would we go about doing so?

by contacting certiphi. They will run a background check for you after you have been offered secondaries (I believe....)

Originally Posted by CodeRedDew;124730nj29

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I dont want to start a new one either. I'm posting from my phone as I have no internet access from my house and my phone won't allow me to do a thorough search. But my question is in regards to getting our own background checks. If we want to get our own background check through the system that AMCAS uses before any acceptances, how would we go about doing so?

Yo, I definitely agree that a lawyer is not the best choice. Why did you not just disclose it in the secondary?

Originally Posted by TheGloaming

Yo, I definitely agree that a lawyer is not the best choice. Why did you not just disclose it in the secondary?

Like I said, I am not going to contact a lawyer. And secondly it doesn't matter why I did not disclose it, the fact is I didn't. So about the residency post, (i know you apply for the match) but is there a completely differently background check that takes place and requires you to disclose all offenses? Do these offenses go back to your med school?

Doesn't matter if they go back or not. Did you list any and all possible youthful sexual experimentations for your Med school? No you did not. Because, just like this event, they did not ask you to. For medical schools/amcas you are required to disclose convictions that have not been sealed/expunged

Edit: can you access your secondary and give us the exact question? I dont think it matters either way but to be sure...

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

Doesn't matter if they go back or not. Did you list any and all possible youthful sexual experimentations for your Med school? No you did not. Because, just like this event, they did not ask you to. For medical schools/amcas you are required to disclose convictions that have not been sealed/expunged

Edit: can you access your secondary and give us the exact question? I dont think it matters either way but to be sure...

I don't have the secondary anymore but I know it vaguely said "any offense" (except traffic violations).

just email the school they probably won't care.

Originally Posted by pre med 2014

just email the school they probably won't care.

Well there's always a chance they will care. I just don't want to risk it if I don't have to.

Originally Posted by IlDestriero

There was a post a while back on the residency forum about a guy that did not disclose an arrest. The question was have you ever been arrested... They found out and threw him out of the residency program abruptly for lying and he ended up being barred from the residency match forever for deliberate deception. Pay attention to the question, and answer it truthfully.

Okay well I didn't pay attention this time...so now what?

Originally Posted by ByValentino

Okay well I didn't pay attention this time...so now what?

Find out what exactly they asked and if you answered untruthfully, intentionally or not, get ahead of it and come clean now. Write a letter correctly answering the question and explain the situation. That's all you can do.
And, of course, understand the question being asked and answer it correctly in the future.

Originally Posted by IlDestriero

Find out what exactly they asked and if you answered untruthfully, intentionally or not, get ahead of it and come clean now. Write a letter correctly answering the question and explain the situation. That's all you can do.
And, of course, understand the question being asked and answer it correctly in the future.

Couldn't this be grounds for having my acceptance rescinded? I just don't understand why some schools don't even ask about criminal charges (they still use Certiphi) and others for ANY offense, no matter how minor, when it was committed, or if it is expunged. And if it didn't show up on Certiphi, when could the school find out?

Do you have an acceptance somewhere else? If so, then honesty will be the best solution here. If the school rescinds their offer, you still get to go to medical school. It may not be your first choice of school, but you can chalk it up to a lesson learned.

If you word it correctly, I think you could contact the school, and still have it help you. Something along the lines of this:

I am contacting you because I want to be sure everything I am doing is completely honest. Explain your situation here. . . The Certiphi background check did not reveal this infraction, and I am sure that the offense has been expunged from my record, but I respect this school and the privilege of practicing medicine too much to not be completely honest. I am willing to accept any consequence you deem necessary for this inadvertent oversight, and am hopeful that I will still be welcomed to matriculate in the fall.

So on and so forth. . .

Originally Posted by Matt In The Hat

Do you have an acceptance somewhere else? If so, then honesty will be the best solution here. If the school rescinds their offer, you still get to go to medical school. It may not be your first choice of school, but you can chalk it up to a lesson learned.

If you word it correctly, I think you could contact the school, and still have it help you. Something along the lines of this:

I am contacting you because I want to be sure everything I am doing is completely honest. Explain your situation here. . . The Certiphi background check did not reveal this infraction, and I am sure that the offense has been expunged from my record, but I respect this school and the privilege of practicing medicine too much to not be completely honest. I am willing to accept any consequence you deem necessary for this inadvertent oversight, and am hopeful that I will still be welcomed to matriculate in the fall.

So on and so forth. . .

Unfortunately, it is my only acceptance, however, I am waitlisted at two other schools. The thought of getting my only acceptance rescinded for something that the school may never even see is not a good thought.

Bump

What other input are you looking for w a bump. I understand how you feel. My record is less clean than yours and I went through this too and will likely deal with it again come time to match. Disclose what you are asked to disclose. I don't think many of these programs ask for any *arrests* because an arrest doesn't equal guilt or any wrong doing. If you cannot find the exact language of the question and are reasonably sure they want more disclosed than your primary asked for then it is up to you. I will say that there is a student at my school who was arrested in his home state after certiphi did their screen and hasn't disclosed anything to the school. This may bite him later of the school gets to see his residency app. I dunno. It is a crapshoot from here but given the info you have provided I doubt what you are describing qualifies anyways. People are not arrested for things less than misdemeanor in my experience. Were you arrested? This is not to be confused with taken downtown and your parents called.

Nothing will probably happen as far as the medical school goes if you do not disclose. However, later in life when it comes time for you to apply for licensing through your state's board of medical examiners, you will most likely have to disclose it then. While it varies from state to state, many states allow certain departments or agencies (most in the medical realm) to access and view sealed and expunged records.

Whether or not the discrepancy between reporting to the state board, but not four years earlier on the secondary application will have any effects, I don't know.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

What other input are you looking for w a bump. I understand how you feel. My record is less clean than yours and I went through this too and will likely deal with it again come time to match. Disclose what you are asked to disclose. I don't think many of these programs ask for any *arrests* because an arrest doesn't equal guilt or any wrong doing. If you cannot find the exact language of the question and are reasonably sure they want more disclosed than your primary asked for then it is up to you. I will say that there is a student at my school who was arrested in his home state after certiphi did their screen and hasn't disclosed anything to the school. This may bite him later of the school gets to see his residency app. I dunno. It is a crapshoot from here but given the info you have provided I doubt what you are describing qualifies anyways. People are not arrested for things less than misdemeanor in my experience. Were you arrested? This is not to be confused with taken downtown and your parents called.

I guess I'm looking for an answer that probably doesn't even exist. However, I read that in my state after completion of a diversion program (which I did) for this type of offense, the record is supposedly destroyed after reaching 21. I still don't know what that means legally and how deep some of these background checks go. I would image Certiphi must go pretty far in-depth and compare to some that hospitals require. I'm guessing that when applying for a license they run a much more thorough background check.

Originally Posted by Dr McSexy

Nothing will probably happen as far as the medical school goes if you do not disclose. However, later in life when it comes time for you to apply for licensing through your state's board of medical examiners, you will most likely have to disclose it then. While it varies from state to state, many states allow certain departments or agencies (most in the medical realm) to access and view sealed and expunged records.

Whether or not the discrepancy between reporting to the state board, but not four years earlier on the secondary application will have any effects, I don't know.

So at what point does one apply for their license. Also, do you just apply for it in the state you intend to practice?

ITT: OP receives helpful advice, shoots it down, and asks for more advice.


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If I understand correctly, the legislature's purpose in developing special procedures for juveniles who commit petty offenses is exactly this purpose: to clear their record and make it possible for a minor transgression in adolescents to be wiped away and not haunt someone, and their hopes of state licensure, for the rest of their days.

OP, as I understand it, your record is clean. It is highly unlikely that state licensure will be held up over a record the state itself wiped clean under a state process of forgiving and forgetting the minor transgressions of young kids who stay out of trouble after that one offense.