How does one survive neurosurgery residency?

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So I'm really excited about pursuing a neurosurgery residency, but I can't possibly fathom the number of hours they put in each week. I read one survey that totaled their hours to 110 per week. That's barely enough time to eat and sleep without feeling rushed. It seems like 14-16 hour days with only 1 day off per week are the norm in neurosurgery. How do you mantain a normal life and do everything else: workout, raise kids, buy house, cook food, see movies, etc?

Or if you go into neurosurgery do you just have to accept the fact that your life will only be about neurosurgery any nothing else? Insight needed!

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

So I'm really excited about pursuing a neurosurgery residency, but I can't possibly fathom the number of hours they put in each week. I read one survey that totaled their hours to 110 per week. That's barely enough time to eat and sleep without feeling rushed. It seems like 14-16 hour days with only 1 day off per week are the norm in neurosurgery. How do you mantain a normal life and do everything else: workout, raise kids, buy house, cook food, see movies, etc?

Or if you go into neurosurgery do you just have to accept the fact that your life will only be about neurosurgery any nothing else? Insight needed!

Originally Posted by JP2740

I know, I know- silly to expect to be normal when you're doing neursurg. But, realistically, isn't neurosurg breeding its residents to be soulless drones who are just really good at one aspect of life (ie. cutting skulls open)? Is it wrong to expect to experience everything else in life, such as committed relationships, nature, and heaven forbid, your hobbies? I understand the "sacrifice" argument, but is there ever a median in between lifestyle and work? Any anecdotal input?

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

I know, I know- silly to expect to be normal when you're doing neursurg. But, realistically, isn't neurosurg breeding its residents to be soulless drones who are just really good at one aspect of life (ie. cutting skulls open)? Is it wrong to expect to experience everything else in life, such as committed relationships, nature, and heaven forbid, your hobbies? I understand the "sacrifice" argument, but is there ever a median in between lifestyle and work? Any anecdotal input?

You're not going to have a lot of time for those things. Not on any regular basis at least.

They say don't do neurosurgery if you have another specialty you would like equally.

You said it yourself, 110 hours a week. Unless you have a machine that's going to add hours to the day, what are confused about.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

So I'm really excited about pursuing a neurosurgery residency, but I can't possibly fathom the number of hours they put in each week. I read one survey that totaled their hours to 110 per week. That's barely enough time to eat and sleep without feeling rushed. It seems like 14-16 hour days with only 1 day off per week are the norm in neurosurgery. How do you mantain a normal life and do everything else: workout, raise kids, buy house, cook food, see movies, etc?

Or if you go into neurosurgery do you just have to accept the fact that your life will only be about neurosurgery any nothing else? Insight needed!

Have you been accepted to a Neurosurg residency yet? I would say first get in/shadow neurosurgeons/rotate through their hospitals, and then worry about that stuff later, if its what you really wanna do.

But I am only a 2nd year so I prob don't know jack.

I just matched into neurosurgery. I think the OP has legit concerns, but they're a little overblown. Certainly some programs blow past the hours limits but those programs are becoming fewer and fewer as the ACGME is cracking down. My program is in New York, which has the most stringent regulations in terms of resident hours so I'm not really concerned about being overworked. I will say though, I completely understand why we work the hours that we do. We deal with very sick patients and continuity of care is really important. So I wouldnt really mind working longer hours to make sure I'm on the same page regarding all the patients on the service that I'd have to take care of. Also remember that neurosurgery programs are very small, typically with 2 residents per year. We work longer and harder simply because of numbers as well.

Originally Posted by Chakrabs

I just matched into neurosurgery. I think the OP has legit concerns, but they're a little overblown. Certainly some programs blow past the hours limits but those programs are becoming fewer and fewer as the ACGME is cracking down. My program is in New York, which has the most stringent regulations in terms of resident hours so I'm not really concerned about being overworked. I will say though, I completely understand why we work the hours that we do. We deal with very sick patients and continuity of care is really important. So I wouldnt really mind working longer hours to make sure I'm on the same page regarding all the patients on the service that I'd have to take care of. Also remember that neurosurgery programs are very small, typically with 2 residents per year. We work longer and harder simply because of numbers as well.

Yea, I read a neurosurgeon's account of how the length/commitment of the residency itself selects for the type of personality they want. And it makes sense, though, because after all you're going to be operating on the freaking brain.

Are you in medical school? If so maybe you should try asking some actual neurosurgeons.

Originally Posted by CaptainSSO

Unless you have a machine that's going to add hours to the day, what are confused about.

Want to buy...

Nuerosurg.jpg

Originally Posted by DrSnips

Attachment 19335

I made one exactly like this but couldn't figure out where to link it from. So Bravo

Originally Posted by Chakrabs

I just matched into neurosurgery. I think the OP has legit concerns, but they're a little overblown. Certainly some programs blow past the hours limits but those programs are becoming fewer and fewer as the ACGME is cracking down.

Hmm, I've heard pretty much the exact opposite. Granted, I'm nowhere close to the match, but from talking to other residents in busy surgical specialties (ortho, uro, gen surg) it's my impression the work hour restrictions are almost never enforced. Residents routinely pull 110+ hr weeks at many programs across the country, and reporting (or even complaining about) these programs to the ACGME is considered "poor form."

Obviously it does happen. I interviewed at 16 neurosurgery programs and I'd say half of them regularly go over the hours. But most programs really did seem to be making an effort to reduce the hours. And aside from a few programs none of the residents seemed overworked or resented working the hours. Its neurosurgery you gotta put in the time if you want to learn how to operate and properly take care of patients. At first I had trepidations about it, but after doing a bunch of rotations I can see why they need to work the hours they do and am looking forward to starting my residency.

Originally Posted by KinasePro

Hmm, I've heard pretty much the exact opposite. Granted, I'm nowhere close to the match, but from talking to other residents in busy surgical specialties (ortho, uro, gen surg) it's my impression the work hour restrictions are almost never enforced. Residents routinely pull 110+ hr weeks at many programs across the country, and reporting (or even complaining about) these programs to the ACGME is considered "poor form."

Yeah from what I've seen on general surgery, even if you sign out at the 12 hour mark, which would be considered a good day, there's always loose ends to tie up that could take an hour or two. You also have to take a look at the culture of the specialty. Neurosurgeons tend to take a lot of pride in being the strongest and hardest working people in the hospital, so not only are you dealing with long hours, you're working with people who don't necessarily want to go home early even if they could.

Originally Posted by KinasePro

Hmm, I've heard pretty much the exact opposite. Granted, I'm nowhere close to the match, but from talking to other residents in busy surgical specialties (ortho, uro, gen surg) it's my impression the work hour restrictions are almost never enforced. Residents routinely pull 110+ hr weeks at many programs across the country, and reporting (or even complaining about) these programs to the ACGME is considered "poor form."

I interviewed at a gen surg residency where they said they were very strict about following work hour rules. How do they enforce the rule? At the end of the month, all residents have to write down on a sheet of paper how many hours they worked/week. Hahah.

Originally Posted by Oxer45

I interviewed at a gen surg residency where they said they were very strict about following work hour rules. How do they enforce the rule? At the end of the month, all residents have to write down on a sheet of paper how many hours they worked/week. Hahah.

Pediatrics resident - "I came in late today because otherwise I would violate work hours regulations and that would be very hard on our program".

Somehow I don't think that'll fly for any surgery specialty.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

I know, I know- silly to expect to be normal when you're doing neursurg. But, realistically, isn't neurosurg breeding its residents to be soulless drones who are just really good at one aspect of life (ie. cutting skulls open)? Is it wrong to expect to experience everything else in life, such as committed relationships, nature, and heaven forbid, your hobbies? I understand the "sacrifice" argument, but is there ever a median in between lifestyle and work? Any anecdotal input?

During residency? Not really.

Something will definitely have to give, and it's usually going to be your sleep, hobbies, and spare time with your SO/spouse. It's a good thing I can function on 6 hours of good sleep a night.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

I read one survey that totaled their hours to 110 per week.

Depends on the week. I've had weeks >120.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

Or if you go into neurosurgery do you just have to accept the fact that your life will only be about neurosurgery any nothing else? Insight needed!

You adapt. I sleep less and get more efficient with things I need to get done. I plan ahead and maximize utility in free time. Likewise, the people in your life have to realize it is a major commitment and adapt too, or else you'll have to make a choice between them and residency. More often than not, residency wins.

Originally Posted by Chakrabs

I just matched into neurosurgery.

Congratulations

Originally Posted by Chakrabs

I think the OP has legit concerns, but they're a little overblown. Certainly some programs blow past the hours limits but those programs are becoming fewer and fewer as the ACGME is cracking down. My program is in New York, which has the most stringent regulations in terms of resident hours so I'm not really concerned about being overworked.

I see you drank the interview cool-aid. Check in with us in a couple of years and let us know how stringent the duty hours are followed.

Originally Posted by TheProwler

Something will definitely have to give, and it's usually going to be your sleep, hobbies, and spare time with your SO/spouse. It's a good thing I can function on 6 hours of good sleep a night.

This is very true. Hobbies and sleep adjust to the residency. Things get better, but I couldn't imagine what it would be like having the free time of someone who works 40 hours/week.

Originally Posted by neusu

Depends on the week. I've had weeks >120.


You adapt. I sleep less and get more efficient with things I need to get done. I plan ahead and maximize utility in free time. Likewise, the people in your life have to realize it is a major commitment and adapt too, or else you'll have to make a choice between them and residency. More often than not, residency wins.


Congratulations


I see you drank the interview cool-aid. Check in with us in a couple of years and let us know how stringent the duty hours are followed.


This is very true. Hobbies and sleep adjust to the residency. Things get better, but I couldn't imagine what it be like having the free time of someone who works 40 hours/week.

You get to drink craft beer with friends, play basketball with your kids, and do things to your wife that I can't post about on this forum.

Originally Posted by neusu

Depends on the week. I've had weeks >120.

How do you function working >120 a week? That would leaves 6.x hours a day of "free time" which (after showering/eating) leaves an average of 4.5 hours for sleep. And this is a best case scenario.

Originally Posted by neusu

I see you drank the interview cool-aid. Check in with us in a couple of years and let us know how stringent the duty hours are followed.

Owned.

Originally Posted by sportsperson

How do you function working >120 a week? That would leaves 6.x hours a day of "free time" which (after showering/eating) leaves an average of 4.5 hours for sleep. And this is a best case scenario.

Eat at work, shower less often, sleep less, and keep loaded guns away from yourself.

Although continuity of care is important in the patient setting, 110-120 hrs/week sounds ludicrous. Neurosurgery procedures are some of the longest in the game but does this mean that they have to run back-to-back with no breaks in between? Eating when you can, sleeping when you can, and not having anytime for relationships/friends almost negates the whole point of medicine: although we are watching over the health of others, we are slowly losing grips of our own mental and physical health.

Continuity of care is pivotal but at what hour-limit to we draw the line and put a limit to the number of hours we work each week? I could feasibly see working 16 hours per day, which could afford you 7 hours of sleep and 1 hour of free time, but how long can this last while you're still saying it's "worth it"? Is there any solution?

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

Although continuity of care is important in the patient setting, 110-120 hrs/week sounds ludicrous. Neurosurgery procedures are some of the longest in the game but does this mean that they have to run back-to-back with no breaks in between? Eating when you can, sleeping when you can, and not having anytime for relationships/friends almost negates the whole point of medicine: although we are watching over the health of others, we are slowly losing grips of our own mental and physical health.

Continuity of care is pivotal but at what hour-limit to we draw the line and put a limit to the number of hours we work each week? I could feasibly see working 16 hours per day, which could afford you 7 hours of sleep and 1 hour of free time, but how long can this last while you're still saying it's "worth it"? Is there any solution?

Think of it this way. A typical full-time job is 40 hrs/week. 120 hrs/wk is only 3 full-time jobs. There are a lot of people out there who work 2 full-time jobs. Working 3 is only 50% harder. That's not too bad.

Originally Posted by LossForWords

Eat at work, shower less often, sleep less, and keep loaded guns away from yourself.

This is probably key.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

Although continuity of care is important in the patient setting, 110-120 hrs/week sounds ludicrous. Neurosurgery procedures are some of the longest in the game but does this mean that they have to run back-to-back with no breaks in between? Eating when you can, sleeping when you can, and not having anytime for relationships/friends almost negates the whole point of medicine: although we are watching over the health of others, we are slowly losing grips of our own mental and physical health.

Continuity of care is pivotal but at what hour-limit to we draw the line and put a limit to the number of hours we work each week? I could feasibly see working 16 hours per day, which could afford you 7 hours of sleep and 1 hour of free time, but how long can this last while you're still saying it's "worth it"? Is there any solution?

I think you're viewing the situation with the wrong set of frames. Continuity of care does not mean the same thing for each specialty. The idea of work-hour restrictions were not made with neurosurgery in mind. Do you understand that signing out a pneumonia is not the same as signing out a post-op craniotomy or a ruptured aneurysm? You stay with your patient until they are better. You don't complain. You can leave when the situation is under control and it's safe to hand over the care to another capable provider. The nature of the work dictates the reality. You're some outside observer with theoretical notions that have no meaning in the actual trenches of the work. Why don't you spend a few days on the neurosurgery service? As someone who just matched in neurosurgery, I can say I would not want you there as a co-resident. Please consider something else like radiology or dermatology. You can sit around and talk about continuity of care for a seborrheic keratosis. Also, please consider that not each week is the same. You can be assured each week will be busy but there will be days when you might have more time for yourself than others. I have attached an editorial on work hour restrictions by senior neurosurgery leadership for you to better understand their viewpoint on the situation.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

Although continuity of care is important in the patient setting, 110-120 hrs/week sounds ludicrous. Neurosurgery procedures are some of the longest in the game but does this mean that they have to run back-to-back with no breaks in between? Eating when you can, sleeping when you can, and not having anytime for relationships/friends almost negates the whole point of medicine: although we are watching over the health of others, we are slowly losing grips of our own mental and physical health.

Continuity of care is pivotal but at what hour-limit to we draw the line and put a limit to the number of hours we work each week? I could feasibly see working 16 hours per day, which could afford you 7 hours of sleep and 1 hour of free time, but how long can this last while you're still saying it's "worth it"? Is there any solution?

Hey Cassie bagley I have a very innovative solution to your problem. It took me a while to figure out but eventually did cause I'm really smart.

Ok, so this might be a bit a much for you to grasp, but, here it is:

Don't do neurosurgery.

Originally Posted by CaptainSSO

Hey Cassie bagley I have a very innovative solution to your problem. It took me a while to figure out but eventually did cause I'm really smart.

Ok, so this might be a bit a much for you to grasp, but, here it is:

Don't do neurosurgery.

Nobody is doubting the importance of staying with a patient throughout diagnosis, operation and post-op for something like a ruptured aneurysm. This of course can as long as it takes to ensure proper care of the patient. What I would like to understand, preferably from neursurg residents, is if and how one finds a balance between neurosurg and lifestyle: hence the question, how does one survive neurosurg residency? How do you find peace throughout the day? Do you feel burned out? What do you do to alleviate feeling burned out? This all stemmed from hearing that neursurg have some of the longest hours and worst career satisfaction ratings (pubmed that ****).

And Mortal_Lesson, of course this is purely "theoretical" as the subject of this thread is to hear everyone's opinions and experiences of the "actual trenches".

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

Although continuity of care is important in the patient setting, 110-120 hrs/week sounds ludicrous.

I beg to differ. Until you have done it and had the feeling it still was not enough, you should not comment on the sensibility.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

I could feasibly see working 16 hours per day, which could afford you 7 hours of sleep and 1 hour of free time, but how long can this last while you're still saying it's "worth it"? Is there any solution?

16 hour days are the days when you are not on call. When you are on call, the day often stretches to 28 hours, or previously 30-36 hours. Worth it is relative. I love what I do and would not want to do anything else. The only way to get to do it is through a neurosurgery residency program. Would I like to go out running more, or travel more, or drinking with friends? Sure, I would. Would it be worth doing something less demanding so I could do those things? Not at all.

Originally Posted by Mortal_Lessons

I think you're viewing the situation with the wrong set of frames. Contininuity of care does not mean the same thing for each specialty.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Mortal_Lessons

As someone who just matched in neurosurgery, I can say I would not want you there as a co-resident.

A little harsh, but probably true.

Originally Posted by CassieBagley

What I would like to understand, preferably from neursurg residents, is if and how one finds a balance between neurosurg and lifestyle: hence the question, how does one survive neurosurg residency? How do you find peace throughout the day? Do you feel burned out? What do you do to alleviate feeling burned out? This all stemmed from hearing that neursurg have some of the longest hours and worst career satisfaction ratings (pubmed that ****)

Finding peace and avoiding burn out is different for each resident, everyone copes in a different way. Regardless of the method, it requires a lot of adjustment both of personal priorities and an ability to adapt. Likewise, for most neurosurgery residents I know, the work load is more of a badge of honor than something to be afraid of.

Your questions are valid if you are considering neurosurgery as a career, and if you think you can adapt to the long hours and work load then maybe it is for you. Convincing yourself you love it because of neuroscience, the work load is not as bad as it sounds, and the work hours restrictions will save you will likely result in you washing out during your second or third year when you face the reality on a daily basis.

Regarding satisfaction, I would argue to the contrary. Neurosurgeons have some of the highest career satisfaction.

Originally Posted by LossForWords

Eat at work, shower less often, sleep less, and keep loaded guns away from yourself.

I like this one!!
Plus more semi-sprinting and a few pressure deflecting techniques. !

Originally Posted by CaptainSSO

Hey Cassie bagley I have a very innovative solution to your problem. It took me a while to figure out but eventually did cause I'm really smart.

Ok, so this might be a bit a much for you to grasp, but, here it is:

Don't do neurosurgery.

+1

Originally Posted by Mortal_Lessons

I think you're viewing the situation with the wrong set of frames. Continuity of care does not mean the same thing for each specialty. The idea of work-hour restrictions were not made with neurosurgery in mind. Do you understand that signing out a pneumonia is not the same as signing out a post-op craniotomy or a ruptured aneurysm? You stay with your patient until they are better. You don't complain. You can leave when the situation is under control and it's safe to hand over the care to another capable provider. The nature of the work dictates the reality. You're some outside observer with theoretical notions that have no meaning in the actual trenches of the work. Why don't you spend a few days on the neurosurgery service? As someone who just matched in neurosurgery, I can say I would not want you there as a co-resident. Please consider something else like radiology or dermatology. You can sit around and talk about continuity of care for a seborrheic keratosis. Also, please consider that not each week is the same. You can be assured each week will be busy but there will be days when you might have more time for yourself than others. I have attached an editorial on work hour restrictions by senior neurosurgery leadership for you to better understand their viewpoint on the situation.

Wow, posts like these make me grateful I have zero interest in neurosurgery. That life sounds terrible.

The following is the oath taken on the first day of neurosurg residency:

Hear my words and bear witness to my vow. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the scalpel in the darkness. I am the watcher of the halls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men . I pledge my life and honor to the Neurosurgeon's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

Originally Posted by neusu

I see you drank the interview cool-aid. Check in with us in a couple of years and let us know how stringent the duty hours are followed.

I rotated at the program, saw them send home post-call residents on multiple occasions. Do they go over the numbers sometimes? Of course, but i feel comfortable that it won't be on a regular basis. And even if it is, it doesnt really matter - the works gotta get done and residency eventually comes to an end.

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

+1

The following is the oath taken on the first day of neurosurg residency:

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

+1



Wow, posts like these make me grateful I have zero interest in neurosurgery. That life sounds terrible.

The following is the oath taken on the first day of neurosurg residency:

The neurosurgeon's watch. You just made my week.

Now I want to go read game of thrones instead of studying.

Originally Posted by DrSnips

Think of it this way. A typical full-time job is 40 hrs/week. 120 hrs/wk is only 3 full-time jobs. There are a lot of people out there who work 2 full-time jobs. Working 3 is only 50% harder. That's not too bad.

I lol'd.

That's why I would never step ONE foot into any surgery residency

I would sign out on the post-op craniomoty if it is going much over my hours. After all, the person I would sign off to isn't some bumbling moron. The pneumonia patient could crash and go to the ICU but so can the post-op guy. If that's the case, residents shouldn't sign off on anyone then. But, I'm sure I'll get ripped for this. Then again, as med students, we don't have to stay for post-op surgeries if it was at the end of the day

Originally Posted by KnuxNole

That's why I would never step ONE foot into any surgery residency

I would sign out on the post-op craniomoty if it is going much over my hours. After all, the person I would sign off to isn't some bumbling moron. The pneumonia patient could crash and go to the ICU but so can the post-op guy. If that's the case, residents shouldn't sign off on anyone then. But, I'm sure I'll get ripped for this. Then again, as med students, we don't have to stay for post-op surgeries if it was at the end of the day

Actually anyone you sign out to who is acting on limited information is going to very much be a bumbling moron, just as you will be when you are in that position. It's totally a do unto others mentality in surgery (and in many other residencies, actually) -- you stay on until all the major fires are out, not just run out of the flames and say " tag, you're it". Both because what comes around goes around, and because it's what's needed for adequate patient care. Residency is a team sport, not a series of independent shifts. You screw over your co-workers by leaving unfinished business, you are going to hear about it and ultimately pay for it.

On paper, every program will meet duty hours. In practice it's sometimes an unrealistic target for some specialties, because you can't really walk out on the code or crashing patient that will put you over your hours for the month.

And bear in mind that duty hours dont really change total hours you have to devote to your craft-- when you are not working you are expected to be reading a lot of the time -- you have inservice exams and specialty boards that you can't really prepare for by osmosis, and possibly a research project or two. It's simply not the same spectrum as the 9 to 5 employee.

Originally Posted by KnuxNole

That's why I would never step ONE foot into any surgery residency

I would sign out on the post-op craniomoty if it is going much over my hours. After all, the person I would sign off to isn't some bumbling moron. The pneumonia patient could crash and go to the ICU but so can the post-op guy. If that's the case, residents shouldn't sign off on anyone then. But, I'm sure I'll get ripped for this. Then again, as med students, we don't have to stay for post-op surgeries if it was at the end of the day

I just finished my medicine SubI (that was fun at the end of 4th yr) and I honestly felt very uncomfortable after coming back from the weekend and seeing the new developments with my patients. Obviously that'll improve as I get more experience, but for me it really drove home the point why continuity of care is so important. By all accounts, the increase in handoffs have also resulted in more mistakes and incidents not less as resident hours have been curtailed.

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

+1



Wow, posts like these make me grateful I have zero interest in neurosurgery. That life sounds terrible.

The following is the oath taken on the first day of neurosurg residency:

lmao! Game of Thrones FTW!

Interesting. I'll admit that I don't have much experience other than one year going through rotations in specialties, so I might have more of the naive viewpoints

I'm assuming most signoffs occur when a patient is stable and the physician is comfortable having the night team cover until the next day? I can see a doctor staying over to see the patient from admission to discharge, but if the patient is there for 5 days, at some point they need to take a breather...right?

Originally Posted by JackShephard MD

Wow, posts like these make me grateful I have zero interest in neurosurgery. That life sounds terrible.

I really don't understand those who go into neurosurgery. But thank god these folks exist. Seems like one of those lifestyles that religion was created for so; i.e., you have some sort of rewarding afterlife to look forward to after you've sacrificed your life to endure suffering (to ostensibly alleviate suffering).


Kinda like suicide bombing. But the good kind. So kudos to the neurosurgeons, you'll get those 72 virgins one day

It'll probably go like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq5bw3BhOCI

Originally Posted by KnuxNole

It'll probably go like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq5bw3BhOCI

Haha

Originally Posted by sportsperson

How do you function working >120 a week? That would leaves 6.x hours a day of "free time" which (after showering/eating) leaves an average of 4.5 hours for sleep. And this is a best case scenario.

1. Eat most/all of your meals at work. I never eat breakfast or lunch at home, and if I'm on call (every 3rd or 4th night), then I'm eating dinner there too.

2. Don't shower *every* day.

3. Have a very, very short commute.


That said, I've never worked 120 hours in a week. The most that I ever remember logging in a week was 100. I'm only in general surgery though.

Originally Posted by mTOR

I really don't understand those who go into neurosurgery. But thank god these folks exist. Seems like one of those lifestyles that religion was created for so; i.e., you have some sort of rewarding afterlife to look forward to after you've sacrificed your life to endure suffering (to ostensibly alleviate suffering).


Kinda like suicide bombing. But the good kind. So kudos to the neurosurgeons, you'll get those 72 virgins one day

Yeah-your post really highlights your misunderstanding. See, you have this view that somehow your hard work is supposed to be paid off later with vacation or time for your hobbies, or some kind of religious promise, etc. Try to understand there are people who see the reward as the privilege of being in a position to carry out the hard work they're doing. They are proud of their work and do not see themselves as suffering. Certainly there are those who will burn out and realize that the sacrifice to have this privilege is not worth it any longer. But realize that you will never have the chance to go into a patient's room as their neurosurgeon and describe how you evacuated their loved one's subdural, effectively saving their life. Or the terrible news that their loved one will never recover. Or the chance alter someone's brain. In most specialties you will have the chance to share bad news, etc., but never at the depth and scale as in neurosurgery.

Originally Posted by TheProwler

Don't shower *every* day.

.

Originally Posted by Mortal_Lessons

Yeah-your post really highlights your misunderstanding. See, you have this view that somehow your hard work is supposed to be paid off later with vacation or time for your hobbies, or some kind of religious promise, etc. Try to understand there are people who see the reward as the privilege of being in a position to carry out the hard work they're doing. They are proud of their work and do not see themselves as suffering. Certainly there are those who will burn out and realize that the sacrifice to have this privilege is not worth it any longer. But realize that you will never have the chance to go into a patient's room as their neurosurgeon and describe how you evacuated their loved one's subdural, effectively saving their life. Or the terrible news that their loved one will never recover. Or the chance alter someone's brain. In most specialties you will have the chance to share bad news, etc., but never at the depth and scale as in neurosurgery.

I respect your field and the dedication, but to think that neurosurgery provides a greater service to patients than other specialties is convenient when you're a neurosurgeon. There are dozens of specialties that make equivalent contributions to patients.

You want to believe that because of the time invested and complexity of what you do, but a great diagnosis does just as much, so does a basic surgical procedure performed. We like to elevate our importance, but everyone's contribution is valuable and to begin to compare is the beginning of vanity and conceit.

Reminds me of a video...

Haha, nice video!

Yeah, you're right, though. I went a little overboard with that post. Everyone's contribution is the same...