Board of Medical Examiners licensure authority for Psychologists?

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In Louisiana where Medical Psychologists may prescribe psychotropic medications and they are now licensed under both the psychology and the medical boards. Licensed Professional Counselors in Louisiana are now in the process of gaining prescription privileges with a similar intent on being licensed under the Medical Board of Examiners.

In many States the Medical Board covers such sub specialties as:

Categories

• Physicians
• Acupuncturists
• Acupuncturist Assistants
• Accupunture Detoxification Specialists
• Athletic Trainers
• Clinical Exercise Physiologists
• Clinical Laboratory Personnel
• Medical Psychologists
• Licensed Midwives
• Occupational Therapists
• Occupational Therapy Assistants
• Physician Assistants
• Podiatrists
• Perfusionists
• Polysomnograph Personnel
• Private Radiological Technologists
• Respiratory Therapists

Boards:
Medical Doctors
Perfusionists
Podiatric Medical Examiners
Licensed Alcohol & Drug Counselors

Professions regulated by the Board:

• Medical Doctors (MD)
• Osteopathic Doctors (DO)
• Chiropractic Doctors (DC)
• Podiatric Doctors (DPM)
• Physician Assistants (PA)
• Physical Therapists (PT)
• Physical Therapist Assistants (PTA)

• Occupational Therapists (OT)
• Occupational Therapy Assistants (OTA)
• Respiratory Therapists (RT)
• Athletic Trainers (AT)
• Naturopathic Doctors (ND)
• Contact Lens Distributors
• Radiologic Technologists (LRT)

• Acupuncture
• Alcohol & Drug Counselor
• Community Health Workers
• Dentistry
• Early Intervention Specialists
• Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT)
• Forensic Psychologists / Psychiatrists
• Genetic Counselors
• Healthcare and Social Work Licensing Boards
• Licensed Radiologic Technologists
• Nurse Aides
• Nursing
• Nursing Home Administrators
• Perfusionists
• Pharmacy
• Physician Assistants
• Physicians
• Respiratory Care

Since the Louisiana Medical Board now regulates Medical Psychologists and there is a splintering of Medical Psychologists versus Psychologists with different boards and different associations will other States follow a similar path? Will Therapy become a medical sub specialty since there are empirical studies showing differences in EEG's wave lengths and fMRI empirical studies indicating that therapy changes brain processes and functional brain images. Will we be writing out prescriptions for CBT therapy weekly for the next ten weeks similar to how PT, OT, and SLP interventions are authorized for rehabilitation of injuries. Neuropsychologists in hospital settings are normally classified as staff in the Neurology Department rather than the Psychology Department. EEG and other neuro feedback used by psychologists is considered more of a medical procedure rather than a therapy procedure. Should Neuropsychologists and Neuro Feedback technicians be regulated by the Medical Board of Examiners? Hypnosis changes brain waves so should they also be regulated by the medical board?

Should Psychologists be regulated under the medical board rather than the psychology board or regulated by both boards?

Originally Posted by 4410

In Louisiana where Medical Psychologists may prescribe psychotropic medications and they are now licensed under both the psychology and the medical boards. Licensed Professional Counselors in Louisiana are now in the process of gaining prescription privileges with a similar intent on being licensed under the Medical Board of Examiners.

In many States the Medical Board covers such sub specialties as:

Categories

• Physicians
• Acupuncturists
• Acupuncturist Assistants
• Accupunture Detoxification Specialists
• Athletic Trainers
• Clinical Exercise Physiologists
• Clinical Laboratory Personnel
• Medical Psychologists
• Licensed Midwives
• Occupational Therapists
• Occupational Therapy Assistants
• Physician Assistants
• Podiatrists
• Perfusionists
• Polysomnograph Personnel
• Private Radiological Technologists
• Respiratory Therapists

Boards:
Medical Doctors
Perfusionists
Podiatric Medical Examiners
Licensed Alcohol & Drug Counselors

Professions regulated by the Board:

• Medical Doctors (MD)
• Osteopathic Doctors (DO)
• Chiropractic Doctors (DC)
• Podiatric Doctors (DPM)
• Physician Assistants (PA)
• Physical Therapists (PT)
• Physical Therapist Assistants (PTA)

• Occupational Therapists (OT)
• Occupational Therapy Assistants (OTA)
• Respiratory Therapists (RT)
• Athletic Trainers (AT)
• Naturopathic Doctors (ND)
• Contact Lens Distributors
• Radiologic Technologists (LRT)

Since the Louisiana Medical Board now regulates Medical Psychologists and there is a splintering of Medical Psychologists versus Psychologists with different boards and different associations will other States follow a similar path? Will Therapy become a medical sub specialty since there are empirical studies showing differences in EEG's wave lengths and fMRI empirical studies indicating that therapy changes brain processes and functional brain images. Will we be writing out prescriptions for CBT therapy weekly for the next ten weeks similar to how PT, OT, and SLP interventions are authorized for rehabilitation of injuries. Neuropsychologists in hospital settings are normally classified as staff in the Neurology Department rather than the Psychology Department. EEG and other neuro feedback used by psychologists is considered more of a medical procedure rather than a therapy procedure. Should Neuropsychologists and Neuro Feedback technicians be regulated by the Medical Board of Examiners? Hypnosis changes brain waves so should they also be regulated by the medical board?

Should Psychologists be regulated under the medical board rather than the psychology board or regulated by both boards?

There's not much in the way of significant splintering of psychologists in Louisiana, at least not that I know of. MP's are licensed by both the medical and psychology boards; it's not as though they forego their psychology licensure to gain RxP. And I'd be absolutely shocked if LPC's ever gain prescription privileges there or elsewhere.

Have to run, so can't comment on the other points at the moment.

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

There's not much in the way of significant splintering of psychologists in Louisiana, at least not that I know of. MP's are licensed by both the medical and psychology boards; it's not as though they forego their psychology licensure to gain RxP. And I'd be absolutely shocked if LPC's ever gain prescription privileges there or elsewhere.

Have to run, so can't comment on the other points at the moment.

They have different associations and conferences. This year they had their conferences on the same days in Baton Rouge, LA so you could not attend both or you had to drive back and forth between conferences, as some did. If you read the LPA newsletter as I have, you will find a great deal of anger and hostility as the medical psychologists have basically aligned themselves with the medical board and have dissolved most if not all relationships with LPA and the psychology board.

Big difference in training goes along with doctoral level and the amount of expertise / experience versus master's level. So much so that I decided to continue at the doctoral level because I in no way felt prepared to practice with solely a MA outside of my specific niche area. I can see RxP for PhD / PsyD level practitioners if they complete the required post doc education AS WELL as training under a psychiatrist but for an MA, MS... no way.

Maybe I am just re-voicing an opinion about encroachment that the MDs have about doc level psychologists. But that's my .02.

Originally Posted by voyeurofthemind

Big difference in training goes along with doctoral level and the amount of expertise / experience versus master's level. So much so that I decided to continue at the doctoral level because I in no way felt prepared to practice with solely a MA outside of my specific niche area. I can see RxP for PhD / PsyD level practitioners if they complete the required post doc education AS WELL as training under a psychiatrist but for an MA, MS... no way.

Maybe I am just re-voicing an opinion about encroachment that the MDs have about doc level psychologists. But that's my .02.

Nurse practioners license is at the MA or post-RN certificate training. Having the PhD in psychology does not necessarily indicate a higher proficiency to prescribe medications better than the MA in professional counseling licensure. Both have to go through two years of training with supervision by an MD or endorsement by an MD. The majority of Nurse Practitioners may have had two or three psychology courses, so how does this make them more competent to prescribe medications?

Originally Posted by 4410

Nurse practioners license is at the MA or post-RN certificate training. Having the PhD in psychology does not necessarily indicate a higher proficiency to prescribe medications better than the MA in professional counseling licensure. Both have to go through two years of training with supervision by an MD or endorsement by an MD. The majority of Nurse Practitioners may have had two or three psychology courses, so how does this make them more competent to prescribe medications?

Perhaps because nurses are medically trained whereas LPCs are not.

Originally Posted by roubs

Perhaps because nurses are medically trained whereas LPCs are not.

Exactly.

There's hardly a consistently-large amount of national acceptance and widespread support for RxP for psychologists, who of course are doctorally-trained individuals. I just don't see that there's any way legislation would pass anywhere that would grant RxP to individuals with even less training.

So if an LPC has their doctoral degree in counseling and they have completed a two-year postdoctoral clinical psychopharmacology program, would they not have as much training as a psychologists who completed the two-year postdoctoral clinical psychopharmacology program? What if a LPC is also a nurse practitioner and has a MS in counseling and a MS in practical nursing, they can then prescribe.

No one has ever endorsed that a licensed psychologists or a licensed counselor without the additional psychopharmacology training should be allowed to prescribe psychotropic medications, did they?

Originally Posted by roubs

Perhaps because nurses are medically trained whereas LPCs are not.

Thats a joke. Neither one is "medically" trained.

Originally Posted by Socrates25

Thats a joke. Neither one is "medically" trained.

Come on. A nurse clearly has far more medical training than an LPC.

And NP's have a LONG course of study- often 5 or 6 years post BSN-RN. In many senses this is similar to the amount of time and training that doctoral programs entail, just with a different emphasis. I have 4 friends in NP programs at the moment, and sub-specialty (one is becoming a nurse anesthetist) is really the only factor into how long the training takes.

They definitely have the knowledge-base acquired to be able to effectively prescribe and manage their patients medically.

Originally Posted by ClinPsychEnthus

And NP's have a LONG course of study- often 5 or 6 years post BSN-RN. In many senses this is similar to the amount of time and training that doctoral programs entail, just with a different emphasis. I have 4 friends in NP programs at the moment, and sub-specialty (one is becoming a nurse anesthetist) is really the only factor into how long the training takes.

They definitely have the knowledge-base acquired to be able to effectively prescribe and manage their patients medically.

Hyperbole. LoOk at all of the direct entry programs out there.

That's why we continue to say that training and course of study matter. If people are going to reputable institutions, doing residences (or in our case, practica and internships) at reputable places, that matters a lot.

I completely agree that not all programs and not all candidates are alike here.

Just like some psychologists could be well-suited to prescribe and manage medications, but I already know that I am not/will not be one of them. Complex biophysiology is not my forte and I don't feel I would be competent to do the work that people with true medical understanding and expertise are qualified to do.

I am going to a direct entry program at a very reputable institution. I resent the implication (seen all the time on SDN) that direct entry programs are a bad thing or that they produce less than competent graduates. One research study has been done comparing RN experience with NP competency, as measured by physicians. Interestingly, physicians reported an inverse relationship with RN experience and NP competency (those with less RN experience were ranked as more competent by physicians).

This is just to say that RN experience does not necessarily translate to clinical competency. Which makes sense, since RN experience varies so widely and so do NP roles. Also, it's important to consider the fact that most direct entry programs are highly selective. None of them are at degree mills/professional institutions, instead they are at very well regarded universities. Because of this, they tend to be much harder to get into than regular NP programs, so the individuals who get in tend to be more academically astute.

My only point was that it's ridiculous to argue that LPCs have a comparable medical education to a RN.

Originally Posted by annoyedbyfreud

i am going to a direct entry program at a very reputable institution. I resent the implication (seen all the time on sdn) that direct entry programs are a bad thing or that they produce less than competent graduates. One research study has been done comparing rn experience with np competency, as measured by physicians. Interestingly, physicians reported an inverse relationship with rn experience and np competency (those with less rn experience were ranked as more competent by physicians).

This is just to say that rn experience does not necessarily translate to clinical competency. Which makes sense, since rn experience varies so widely and so do np roles. Also, it's important to consider the fact that most direct entry programs are highly selective. None of them are at degree mills/professional institutions, instead they are at very well regarded universities. Because of this, they tend to be much harder to get into than regular np programs, so the individuals who get in tend to be more academically astute.

My only point was that it's ridiculous to argue that lpcs have a comparable medical education to a rn.

+1

Originally Posted by ClinPsychEnthus

+1

Vanderbilt has a program that is mostly online for NP training or MS degree. It is a two year program and you get your RN the first year and your NP the second year. You only need to have a BA or BS degree in any discipline to be considered for admissions.

Originally Posted by 4410

Vanderbilt has a program that is mostly online for NP training or MS degree. It is a two year program and you get your RN the first year and your NP the second year. You only need to have a BA or BS degree in any discipline to be considered for admissions.

I don't think that would count as the type of programs that we have been stating would be considered adequate training.

Following their trend of posting fallacious messages on sdn, the assertion that lpcs are attempting to gain rxp is untrue. An Internet search found no evidence of this. Because so many of 4410s posts are outright lies which may damage some (see their posts re apa accredited internships in the occupy the imbalance thread), can't they be banned from posting here?

Originally Posted by 4410

Vanderbilt has a program that is mostly online for NP training or MS degree. It is a two year program and you get your RN the first year and your NP the second year. You only need to have a BA or BS degree in any discipline to be considered for admissions.

Actually, Vanderbilt's pre-specialty program is not online, as far as I can tell. And it says that for the psych MSN you have to be there in person, if you enter as a non-RN.

"Offered in modified learning (block) format for RNs who live at a distance. Students entering as non-RNs must complete entire program in Nashville"

It's true that some nursing programs have moved to distance education, but none for direct entry, as far as I can tell. If there are direct entry online programs, they would certainly be in the minority. Vanderbilt is also an excellent university, it's not exactly a degree mill like Argosy or Capella. I do agree that nursing training varies a lot, unlike med school or PA school, which is why it's really important to be careful choosing a program.