Chances at competitive IM programs

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

So I've posted about this before, but recently, got a bombshell in the form of not honoring my medicine rotation. I am totally devastated by this - I have never worked so hard in my life and I got consistently great feedback throughout the rotation. I think I was robbed of honors due a very bizarre grading system at my school and their policy of only giving honors to a set percentage of students. I am in the process of appealing this, but I expect no success in this matter.

At any rate, these are my current stats, briefly:
Step 1 240
Northeast medical school (Top 50)
Mostly pass in preclinical grades, some honors
Excellent (=high pass) in psychiatry, ob/gyn, general surgery, internal medicine, anticipating honors in family medicine and excellent in pediatrics.
One poster presentation, one publication in the works, summer research experience in cardiology, still actively looking for research
Some leadership/community activities, position in internal medicine society

I'm couples-matching with my boyfriend (fantastic candidate going into surgical sub-specialty). I plan to apply all over the Northeast and parts of the Midwest, to only university programs. Planning to take Step 2 early just to get it out of the way and because I've done well on most shelf exams this year.

I guess I just want an honest opinion of my chances at some of the well-known IM programs in those regions. I'm genuinely afraid that this recent development has closed a lot of doors for me.

You'll be fine. Honors helps but it isn't everything.

Originally Posted by Celestine

So I've posted about this before, but recently, got a bombshell in the form of not honoring my medicine rotation. I am totally devastated by this - I have never worked so hard in my life and I got consistently great feedback throughout the rotation. I think I was robbed of honors due a very bizarre grading system at my school and their policy of only giving honors to a set percentage of students. I am in the process of appealing this, but I expect no success in this matter.

At any rate, these are my current stats, briefly:
Step 1 240
Northeast medical school (Top 50)
Mostly pass in preclinical grades, some honors
Excellent (=high pass) in psychiatry, ob/gyn, general surgery, internal medicine, anticipating honors in family medicine and excellent in pediatrics.
One poster presentation, one publication in the works, summer research experience in cardiology, still actively looking for research
Some leadership/community activities, position in internal medicine society

I'm couples-matching with my boyfriend (fantastic candidate going into surgical sub-specialty). I plan to apply all over the Northeast and parts of the Midwest, to only university programs. Planning to take Step 2 early just to get it out of the way and because I've done well on most shelf exams this year.

I guess I just want an honest opinion of my chances at some of the well-known IM programs in those regions. I'm genuinely afraid that this recent development has closed a lot of doors for me.

I think the Penns/MGHs/The Brigham/Columbia/Hopkins of the world are going to be a stretch to match at but you might get a few interviews and who knows. The next tier down Northwesterns/chicagos/tufts are probably wide open. The yale's/BIDMCs who knows. It all depends how strong your significant other is and how strong the other applicants are. Couples matching is always difficult to foretell. Gold&Black may have some input since he couples matched a few years back

Originally Posted by Instatewaiter

I think the Penns/MGHs/The Brigham/Columbia/Hopkins of the world are going to be a stretch to match at but you might get a few interviews and who knows. The next tier down Northwesterns/chicagos/tufts are probably wide open. The yale's/BIDMCs who knows. It all depends how strong your significant other is and how strong the other applicants are. Couples matching is always difficult to foretell. Gold&Black may have some input since he couples matched a few years back

Agree with this. No reason not to apply to the "Top X" programs, but don't get bent out of shape if you don't get an interview. You'll get plenty of good interviews at excellent programs in the NE and midwest (I'm thinking Cornell, MSSM, UC, NW, Madison, Maryland, etc. among others). The couple's match is a bit of a wildcard but if you stick to cities with lots of programs it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Originally Posted by Instatewaiter

I think the Penns/MGHs/The Brigham/Columbia/Hopkins of the world are going to be a stretch to match at but you might get a few interviews and who knows. The next tier down Northwesterns/chicagos/tufts are probably wide open. The yale's/BIDMCs who knows. It all depends how strong your significant other is and how strong the other applicants are. Couples matching is always difficult to foretell. Gold&Black may have some input since he couples matched a few years back

Thanks everyone for the advice and reassurance. But this does raise another question - my significant other is a really outstanding candidate (Step 1 260s, junior AOA, high class rank, tons of extracurriculurs/research, a lot of clinical honors) - does this improve my chances of matching at all? Like is there any communication between departments about accepting one person to ensure getting the other? Hope that makes sense.

If you don't get into Hopkins no one will love you.

I thought we had a "what are my chances" thread?

Originally Posted by jdh71

If you don't get into Hopkins no one will love you.

I thought we had a "what are my chances" thread?

Lol. And yeah, I looked for it, I guess it was unstickied.

Originally Posted by Celestine

Lol. And yeah, I looked for it, I guess it was unstickied.

Oh. So it is the mod's fault.

We should have an election for a new moderator . . . oh wait! This isn't a representative government. I don't appreciate all of this dictatorship nonsense.

Originally Posted by jdh71

Oh. So it is the mod's fault.

We should have an election for a new moderator . . . oh wait! This isn't a representative government. I don't appreciate all of this dictatorship nonsense.

I will crush you.

The WAMC thread will be back when it's WAMC time. Right now it's mow the lawn, go for a bike ride, have a couple of beers time.

Originally Posted by gutonc

I will crush you.

The WAMC thread will be back when it's WAMC time. Right now it's mow the lawn, go for a bike ride, have a couple of beers time.

I'm being repressed!!

This is what I'm on about!!

Originally Posted by gutonc

I will crush you.

The WAMC thread will be back when it's WAMC time. Right now it's mow the lawn, go for a bike ride, have a couple of beers time.

Fair enough. When will it be "quibble over the top 30 programs" time?

Originally Posted by Celestine

Thanks everyone for the advice and reassurance. But this does raise another question - my significant other is a really outstanding candidate (Step 1 260s, junior AOA, high class rank, tons of extracurriculurs/research, a lot of clinical honors) - does this improve my chances of matching at all? Like is there any communication between departments about accepting one person to ensure getting the other? Hope that makes sense.

From what I have observed, the weaker applicant tends to drag the stronger one down more than the stronger raising the weaker. I would think you *should* match better with him than if you went alone, but not by that much, and he may very well match weaker.

Originally Posted by coffeebeanjenn

Fair enough. When will it be "quibble over the top 30 programs" time?

Oh...that season never ends.

Originally Posted by gutonc

Oh...that season never ends.

Yale is the BEST program in the country.

True story.

Originally Posted by jdh71

I'm being repressed!!

This is what I'm on about!!

Post hold in 3...2...

Originally Posted by jdh71

Oh. So it is the mod's fault.

We should have an election for a new moderator . . . oh wait! This isn't a representative government. I don't appreciate all of this dictatorship nonsense.

...no, seriously........

Originally Posted by Celestine

Thanks everyone for the advice and reassurance. But this does raise another question - my significant other is a really outstanding candidate (Step 1 260s, junior AOA, high class rank, tons of extracurriculurs/research, a lot of clinical honors) - does this improve my chances of matching at all? Like is there any communication between departments about accepting one person to ensure getting the other? Hope that makes sense.

I couples matched (medicine & anesthesia) this year. Programs definitely cross talk, especially if you and your significant other are honest and upfront about your situation. In fact, I made it a point in my interviews to ask how each program handles the couples match. The process varies greatly from institution to institution, but only one program told me they don't get involved (Columbia). A number of Medicine PDs went to bat for my spouse. If the surgical programs really want your SO, then you may get some help. It may only be a second review of your application, but this may be enough to score an interview. Although with a Step 1 of 240, you shouldn't miss the cut-off anywhere. Feel free to PM me and we can talk in more detail.

Originally Posted by RunningMan

It may only be a second review of your application, but this may be enough to score an interview. Although with a Step 1 of 240, you shouldn't miss the cut-off anywhere. Feel free to PM me and we can talk in more detail.

I tend to agree with the above. It's not like OP is forrest gump trying to ride the coat-tails of of "super-star beau" - she'll show up to work on July one and will drool int he corner for her lack of honor in IM and a MERE 240!!

But then . . . I'm a reasonable person without a single elitist tendency. I'm not so sure, I have so much faith in certain "top 10" PDs and selection committees.

Originally Posted by jdh71

Yale is the BEST program in the country.

True story.

Lol. :rolls eyes:

Your non-elitist tendencies, jdh, sadly put you in the minority among most of those PDs/selection committees. Couples matching with a surgical field (mine is ob) is always challenging because of the numbers game - whereas most medicine places are recruiting anywhere from 25-50 positions, uro/ob/ortho may only be taking 4-8 (if that). Places that really like your partner will often (mot always as aforementioned) lobby medicine to interview you. That may or may not with depending on the relationship between the respective PDs at that institution. Some places will work out, others not so much...it's highly variable and often site-specific. Also, couples tend to be hard to predict in the match, as dual interviews at one place didn't always mean being ranked by both programs. Ain't this fun?

So, my advice: apply really, really broadly. Have as few geographic limitations as possible but know your non-negotiatables (ie no west coast, no alabama, no northeast, etc) and lay those out early with each other. Go to programs with an open mind and advocate HARD for yourself and your partner - when one of you gets an interview, you should be contacting the other program with that update and expression of your intent/interest.

As an aside...no H in medicine from a non-elite school will make this harder. In my experience, programs tended to make exceptions for candidates from top 20 schools more often than for the alternative. Still, would apply everywhere.

Another aside - certain programs, many outside big cities, will really stretch/fight for couples. Was really impressed by duke, yale, mayo, case western, wash u, utsw, emory, vandy and penn in that regard.

Sigh...be prepared for this possibility. Like I said, it's tough to predict.

Originally Posted by mercaptovizadeh

From what I have observed, the weaker applicant tends to drag the stronger one down more than the stronger raising the weaker. I would think you *should* match better with him than if you went alone, but not by that much, and he may very well match weaker.

Oh def add Michigan, Ohio State to that list

That's that oslerian memory coming through!

Originally Posted by Instatewaiter

I think the Penns/MGHs/The Brigham/Columbia/Hopkins of the world are going to be a stretch to match at but you might get a few interviews and who knows. The next tier down Northwesterns/chicagos/tufts are probably wide open. The yale's/BIDMCs who knows. It all depends how strong your significant other is and how strong the other applicants are. Couples matching is always difficult to foretell. Gold&Black may have some input since he couples matched a few years back

.

If you get that H, every program will be open. Even if you don't get the H, you will likely get interviews at many (?most) of the top programs. Apply broadly just in case but you would be a strong candidate.