2012 Official Preallo Political Discussion Thread

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The purpose of this thread is to serve as a place for preallo users to discuss political topics during this election season.

All political threads will be merged with this one.

A general reminder: Personal attacks are not allowed. If you see a personal attack against you or another poster, please use the red "Report Post" triangle () to report the issue to the moderation staff. Do not respond to the attack!

Further discussions of political issues may be handled more appropriately in the Sociopolitical Issues section of the Lounge.

As the presidential election looms closer, we -- the future employees of America's health care system -- must inevitably choose a candidate and cast our vote in November. Romney (state leadership) and Obama (Obamacare) have exceedingly different views on how to handle health care in the US... how will you vote and why?

Originally Posted by RollTide22

As the presidential election looms closer, we -- the future employees of America's health care system -- must inevitably choose a candidate and cast our vote in November. Romney (state leadership) and Obama (Obamacare) have exceedingly different views on how to handle health care in the US... how will you vote and why?

I'm going to go with the latter for many reasons. Specifically on healthcare, I think that there should be a high standard of care nationwide, irrespective of what state you live in. If we let the states decide their own healthcare systems, we would end up with extremists in some states watering down care for the poorest residents. (Also, IMHO, very few good ideas are defended on the basis of "states' rights")

Let's see...someone who appears to give a **** about people being able to see a doctor, versus a hyperreligious, anti-woman, anti-gay, elitist? Is this actually a question? -_-

Universal health care all the way........ oh, wait! but none of them are offering that!!!

I still support Obama though, he needs to show some cojones this next period!!!

Originally Posted by plumhill

Let's see...someone who appears to give a **** about people being able to see a doctor, versus a hyperreligious, anti-woman, anti-gay, elitist? Is this actually a question? -_-

I know, right!! Hopefully people will make the most intelligent decision when voting, specially women, gay, and poor of America

voting in the right congressmen is probably more important for legislation since they are the ones that will be writing the actual bill. the president can frame the conversation and provide leadership for his party but people tend to give presidents more credit for events than they deserve.

Obama. ACA isn't perfect but I think it's a step in the right direction. I'm all for expanding coverage, and I think it will lower costs in the long run. But by not going far enough, I'm not sure exactly how ACA will work out.

Originally Posted by plumhill

Let's see...someone who appears to give a **** about people being able to see a doctor, versus a hyperreligious, anti-woman, anti-gay, elitist? Is this actually a question? -_-

Seriously? Why can't people keep things civil?

inb4 some gif about the internet.

Ron Paul

Originally Posted by plumhill

Let's see...someone who appears to give a **** about people being able to see a doctor, versus a hyperreligious, anti-woman, anti-gay, elitist? Is this actually a question? -_-

While these may be an indicator to your judgement of his character, you really need to focus on the policies at hand. We need changes pronto

Obama.

Republicans don't actually have a healthcare plan. They admit that their 'repeal and replace' wasn't really true.

I am not a fan of the healthcare bill but it was better than it was before. Right now, people who were unable to get health insurance before are able to do so through health insurance exchanges set up by the state. In 2014, it'll be better (of course, it assumes Supreme Court upholds that part of it, which is not a given).

We'll see what happens.

People in healthcare think that Obamacare will mean their salaries will go down -- the alternative being that the Republican plans won't mean the same thing. That's false. Physician salaries will go down regardless of whose plan it is.

Insurance companies base their payments on medicare, and medicare reimbursements will go down regardless of which party is in office because the current situation is unsustainable. And Republicans have pledged to cut medicare (part of those cuts will have to come from reimbursements), and Democrats will cut that part as well.

First of all, "Obamacare" is what Romney implemented in Massachusetts, and it's what Obama had to settle for, not what he wanted.

The comparison would be more Obama (Universal Healthcare) vs Romney (Obamacare).

Originally Posted by RollTide22

As the presidential election looms closer, we -- the future employees of America's health care system -- must inevitably choose a candidate and cast our vote in November. Romney (state leadership) and Obama (Obamacare) have exceedingly different views on how to handle health care in the US... how will you vote and why?

Healthcare isn't the issue I'll be voting on.

I really thought there was no way I'd be voting Democrat this election. Then the Republicans elected someone whose only core values are the complete deregulation of Wall Street and the elimination of every tax {edit} except those on earned income. Romney is to the Republicans what John Kerry was to the Democrats. I've already, regretfully, donated to Obama's campaign.

I'm sure this thread was started with the intent to have a perfectly civil, rational, and logical discussion about politics. Yep. Nothing bad can come of this.

I hate the word Obamacare.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

Healthcare isn't the issue I'll be voting on.

I really thought there was no way I'd be voting Democrat this election. Then the Republicans elected someone whose only core values are the complete deregulation of Wall Street and the elimination of every tax on earned income. Romney is to the Republicans what John Kerry was to the Democrats. I've already, regretfully, donated to Obama's campaign.

Yup. Something incredible will have to happen for Obama to lose. He's pissed a lot of people off, but the fact that he's running against a guy that is doing a really, really bad job of attempting to garner broad appeal will help Obama immensely.

I voted for Obama last election but I think (still plenty of time to change my vote) I'll be voting for Romney for a couple of reasons

1) Social issues are not my #1 priority (nor are they most people's)

2) I tend to side with Romney on health care. I do support the ACA in that access to health care is an issue we need to address in this country. I don't like a nation system, however. The heath care needs and demands in my state are very different than the needs of another. If anything I feel the federal government should mandate states maintain a certain level of access to health care and then states would be free to enact universal health care or whatever they like as long as they are able to follow the guidelines set by the feds. This is similar to what Romney has supported in the past (Romneycare)

3) Romney has pledged support and financing for the defense budget. I'm taking the HPSP scholarship and if I decide to stay in the military until retirement I'd like to hope that my pension will be there for me. I feel there is a better chance of this happening under a Romney administration.

Originally Posted by Oo Cipher oO

3) Romney has pledged support and financing for the defense budget. I'm taking the HPSP scholarship and if I decide to stay in the military until retirement I'd like to hope that my pension will be there for me. I feel there is a better chance of this happening under a Romney administration.

Romney has pledged to cut so many taxes that the federal governments income would get cut in half. The federal government's income already only covers half of the federal government's spending. He has promised to support the military in the same speech he has promised to eliminate the only possible source of that support.

Not that Romney has given me any reason to believe anything he says.

Originally Posted by Oo Cipher oO

2) I tend to side with Romney on health care. I do support the ACA in that access to health care is an issue we need to address in this country. I don't like a nation system, however. The heath care needs and demands in my state are very different than the needs of another. If anything I feel the federal government should mandate states maintain a certain level of access to health care and then states would be free to enact universal health care or whatever they like as long as they are able to follow the guidelines set by the feds.

As a matter of fact, states can receive a waiver from the ACA and pursue their own individual paths to expanded coverage. Vermont passed legislation for a single payer system over a year ago in anticipation of this.

Originally Posted by Oo Cipher oO

3) Romney has pledged support and financing for the defense budget. I'm taking the HPSP scholarship and if I decide to stay in the military until retirement I'd like to hope that my pension will be there for me. I feel there is a better chance of this happening under a Romney administration.

So, you are supporting Romney in order to protect your entitlement? Good luck with that one, mate. Republican defense spending is more about lining the pockets of private contractors than funding anyone's retirement. Perhaps they will if they can convert all the military pensions to 401k's, thereby sucking more tax dollars into the financial system.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

Romney has pledged to cut so many taxes that the federal governments income would get cut in half. The federal government's income already only covers half of the federal government's spending. He has promised to support the military in the same speech he has promised to eliminate the only possible source of that support.

Not that Romney has given me any reason to believe anything he says.

In half? What is your source?

Originally Posted by TheGloaming

In half? What is your source?

I was exaggerating for effect. He plans to cut a mere trillion dollars in revenue. The federal budget would only be cut by 25%.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

I was exaggerating for effect. He plans to cut a mere trillion dollars in revenue. The federal budget would only be cut by 25%.

Naah man, double it up, it's OK. Why not say he'll cut 75%, the truth doesn't matter, you're exaggerating for effect!

Obama.

Originally Posted by Gut Shot

As a matter of fact, states can receive a waiver from the ACA and pursue their own individual paths to expanded coverage. Vermont passed legislation for a single payer system over a year ago in anticipation of this.

They can't opt out if they want to do less then the mandate, only if they want to do more. If they want to fund medicaid at a lower reimbursement rate then medicare they can't do that anymore. If they don't want the massive expansion in the medicaid patient rolls ordered by the legislation they can't do that either. If they want to ignore the individual mandate they can't even do that. They can move to the left of the legislation, or they can implement the legislation, but they can't move to the right of it. That's not much of an option.

Originally Posted by SLC

Naah man, double it up, it's OK. Why not say he'll cut 75%, the truth doesn't matter, you're exaggerating for effect!

You're right, I apologize. The facts: he will cut 25% of a budget that currently only pays for 50% of our spending in the first place. If you want a strong military you are relying on him either borrowing indefinitely or cutting 63% of the federal budget without touching the military budget.

Originally Posted by SLC

Naah man, double it up, it's OK. Why not say he'll cut 75%, the truth doesn't matter, you're exaggerating for effect!

Spoken like a true politician.

Originally Posted by SLC

Naah man, double it up, it's OK. Why not say he'll cut 75%, the truth doesn't matter, you're exaggerating for effect!

Dude, have you never heard of "not intended to be a factual statement"?

Anyway, Obama.

Originally Posted by Gut Shot

As a matter of fact, states can receive a waiver from the ACA and pursue their own individual paths to expanded coverage. Vermont passed legislation for a single payer system over a year ago in anticipation of this.


So, you are supporting Romney in order to protect your entitlement? Good luck with that one, mate. Republican defense spending is more about lining the pockets of private contractors than funding anyone's retirement. Perhaps they will if they can convert all the military pensions to 401k's, thereby sucking more tax dollars into the financial system.

So has Obama spoken about the changes he'd make to defense spending? I'm asking an honest question. I know it's selfish but I do tend to vote out of self interest. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Oo Cipher oO

So has Obama spoken about the changes he'd make to defense spending? I'm asking an honest question. I know it's selfish but I do tend to vote out of self interest. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Neither side has spoken about cutting the military. Both sides have made it clear that the military has no clear budget past November (let alone after the election) and that that is someone else's fault. There is no evidence that either Republicans or Democrats are willing to take responsibility for the reduction in force that is a result of a bipartisan policy of more and more tax cuts paired with ever increasing 'non-discretionary' spending.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

They can't opt out if they want to do less then the mandate, only if they want to do more. If they want to fund medicaid at a lower reimbursement rate then medicare they can't do that anymore. If they don't want the massive expansion in the medicaid patient rolls ordered by the legislation they can't do that either. If they want to ignore the individual mandate they can't even do that. They can move to the left of the legislation, or they can implement the legislation, but they can't move to the right of it. That's not much of an option.

What? I thought the right was just brimming with free market solutions that will expand health coverage while driving costs down. As per the federal gubbmint itself, here are the criteria that must be met to get a "State Innovation Waiver":

- Is at least as comprehensive as the coverage that would have been provided under the Affordable Care Act.
- Is at least as affordable as the coverage and cost sharing protections under the Affordable Care Act.
- Covers at least as many residents as would have otherwise been covered under the Affordable Care Act.
- Will not increase the federal deficit.

Singapore, anyone?

I think only the Supreme Court gets to vote on healthcare next month. Come November, the choice is unclear for me. Personally I don't have much confidence in either candidate.

Originally Posted by RollTide22

As the presidential election looms closer, we -- the future employees of America's health care system -- must inevitably choose a candidate and cast our vote in November. Romney (state leadership) and Obama (Obamacare) have exceedingly different views on how to handle health care in the US... how will you vote and why?

I'm voting for Obama because if you put a "G" in front of his name, it says "Go Bama."

Seriously though, I'm currently undecided between the two. I've historically voted Republican but I've felt that our party isn't cognizant of how critical it is that we reform our current system and instead just focuses on blocking anything Obama tries to accomplish. Then again, that $1 trillion associated with Obama's plan is a bit scary. Regardless, we spend too much on a health care system that ranks low in the world, is at least 25% ineffective/without scientific evidence, and drops ridiculous bank on terminally-ill patients... reform is absolutely necessary.

Originally Posted by RollTide22

I'm voting for Obama because if you put a "G" in front of his name, it says "Go Bama."

Seriously though, I'm currently undecided between the two. I've historically voted Republican but I've felt that our party isn't cognizant of how critical it is that we reform our current system and instead just focuses on blocking anything Obama tries to accomplish. Then again, that $1 trillion associated with Obama's plan is a bit scary. Regardless, we spend too much on a health care system that ranks low in the world, is at least 25% ineffective/without scientific evidence, and drops ridiculous bank on terminally-ill patients... reform is absolutely necessary.

Roll Tide my friend. Didn't realize there were any of us on this forum!

Also, Obama.

Does Romney even want to change the status-quo? I am fairly sure that if John McCain had beat Obama then this question would not even be brought up. Without a required explanation, I go with Obama. No healthcare system is perfect, but it's a step in the 'right' direction.

I'm no sociopolitical expert, but I always thought that for the most part doctors tended swing right, and were very conservative (socially).

Originally Posted by NickNaylor

Yup. Something incredible will have to happen for Obama to lose. He's pissed a lot of people off, but the fact that he's running against a guy that is doing a really, really bad job of attempting to garner broad appeal will help Obama immensely.

Romney is literally the last person everyone wanted to choose, and he's the only one left. I lol'd when everyone except Cain was like no thanks VP.

Running a business is not the same as being POTUS.

I'm no sociopolitical expert, but I always thought that for the most part doctors tended swing right, and were very conservative (socially).

Keeping the rich rich is a pretty good perogative.

Originally Posted by pfaction

Running a business is not the same as being POTUS.

Oh you're right, you must be a senator for a year to be qualified to be president of the United States.

I love all the bleeding hearts on this forum.

I'll be voting Romney.

If we gonna be physicians, voting for Obama is voting against our economic interest... As doctors, our average salary will be 250k+; therefore, we gonna have a huge tax cut with Romney. On the contrary, Obama promises tax cut for people making <250k+...I can be careless about any other issues; I care about my own pocket. VOTE FOR ROMNEY.

Originally Posted by CALLR001

Oh you're right, you must be a senator for a year to be qualified to be president of the United States.

I love all the bleeding hearts on this forum.

I'll be voting Romney.

I'd rather have a senator than a person who sells companies?

cians, voting for Obama is voting against our economic interest... As doctors, our average salary will be 250k+; therefore, we gonna have a huge tax cut with Romney. On the contrary, Obama promises tax cut for people making <250k+...I can be careless about any other issues; I care about my own pocket. VOTE FOR ROMNEY.

Are you close to passing your boards to become an actual doctor? Are you within four years?
If not, lol @ your post.

Originally Posted by CALLR001

Oh you're right, you must be a senator for a year to be qualified to be president of the United States.

I love all the bleeding hearts on this forum.

I'll be voting Romney.

Originally Posted by Temperature101

If we gonna be physicians, voting for Obama is voting against our economic interest... As doctors, our average salary will be 250k+; therefore, we gonna have a huge tax cut with Romney. On the contrary, Obama promises tax cut for people making <250k+...I can be careless about any other issues; I care about my own pocket. VOTE FOR ROMNEY.

There's more to life than money.

Originally Posted by pfaction

Romney is literally the last person everyone wanted to choose, and he's the only one left. I lol'd when everyone except Cain was like no thanks VP.

Running a business is not the same as being POTUS.


Keeping the rich rich is a pretty good perogative.

What wrong with that?

Romney. Easy choice.

I'm gonna write in Hillary Clinton.

.

Originally Posted by Neurosis

I'm no sociopolitical expert, but I always thought that for the most part doctors tended swing right, and were very conservative (socially).

Really is quite split. Last poll I remember seeing had docs slightly favoring a single-payer (but pretty much 50-50).

Doctors in primary care tend to favor a single-payer. As do those who deal with low-income patients. Wonder why?

Originally Posted by wolfie77

There's more to life than money.

I am not about to give up my hard earned money to some low life who dont want to work...Dont get me wrong. I have no love for ROMNEY. I dont believe a thing that guy said except the tax cut since I know Grover Nortquist (American for Tax Reform) will make sure he follows up on his promise.

Originally Posted by pfaction

I'd rather have a senator than a person who sells companies?

You do have a point. If one is hoping to govern the most powerful country in the world he should have some experience governing. Oh wait Romney was governor of Massachusetts.

This is how I imagine Romney, as a businessman, running the States:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXQu...eature=related

The health care law is expensive, raises medicare premiums, violates the tenth amendment of the constitution, and the federal mandate portion of the law is unconstitutional. Healthcare should be left up to the states not the federal government; also when has government ever ran anything at a profit or ran it as well as free enterprise?