Dvm/mph

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Anyone thinking of (or are pursuing) a dual degree in public health? I know OSU offers one. Not sure how strongly I'm considering adding more stress to my DVM program. () Are there any huge benefits to having an MPH beyond the DVM degree? If I wanted to pursue a DVM specialty, would it be overkill along with the board cert? Not entirely sure what field I want to go into yet. I'm really open to anything, so I'm just wondering if the MPH degree would open up more doors for me. Gracias!!

P.S. I did a search, but all the threads were like 4 years old

Originally Posted by NStarz

Anyone thinking of (or are pursuing) a dual degree in public health? I know OSU offers one. Not sure how strongly I'm considering adding more stress to my DVM program. () Are there any huge benefits to having an MPH beyond the DVM degree? If I wanted to pursue a DVM specialty, would it be overkill along with the board cert? Not entirely sure what field I want to go into yet. I'm really open to anything, so I'm just wondering if the MPH degree would open up more doors for me. Gracias!!

P.S. I did a search, but all the threads were like 4 years old

I looked into this as well. I think the advantage would be if you want to work in public health or somewhere along those lines. Otherwise, I'm not really sure it's worth the extra stress and money. Just my opinion. I think I've personally decided it isn't worth it to me and if I really need it one day, I will get it.

I'm considering and MPVM (Master Preventative Veterinary Medicine), not an MPH. I think the main benefit is being able to approach complex issues from a population level as opposed to more on the individual level. Yes, there is some of this in vet school, but most likely not as much as you would need for a career in public health.

Also, you need to have already obtained your DVM to apply for the MPVM (at least at Davis) so you wouldn't have to be worrying about boards at the time.

Originally Posted by hairlessratlvr

Also, you need to have already obtained your DVM to apply for the MPVM (at least at Davis) so you wouldn't have to be worrying about boards at the time.

It's not the same case for the MPH as far as I know. I think most vet schools build it into your first year, and I think it takes 5 years instead of 4 to graduate with both. At least that's how it is at CSU and FL.

Yeah, I really don't know much about the MPH. Just thought I would throw the idea of the MPVM out there since it is a public health related masters where you don't apply until after you have your DVM. Also, faculty I have spoken to have said that it definitely tends to be very epidemiology based so that is something to keep in mind-but it is cool in that it is a masters program focused on public health that is completely designed with veterinary medicine in mind.

Originally Posted by hairlessratlvr

Yeah, I really don't know much about the MPH. Just thought I would throw the idea of the MPVM out there since it is a public health related masters where you don't apply until after you have your DVM. Also, faculty I have spoken to have said that it definitely tends to be very epidemiology based so that is something to keep in mind-but it is cool in that it is a masters program focused on public health that is completely designed with veterinary medicine in mind.

That IS cool... I didn't even know it existed lol.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/mpvm/index.cfm

Yeah, I work in a lab with a lot of the MPVM students! It seems like a really awesome program

Originally Posted by hairlessratlvr

Also, you need to have already obtained your DVM to apply for the MPVM (at least at Davis) so you wouldn't have to be worrying about boards at the time.

Davis' MPVM degree is super special and sounds really cool. I just wanted to let you know that they are currently considering re-vamping the program, and may get rid of the DVM pre-requisit (at least that's what I've heard). Not exactly sure how the program is going to change, but since before I started here I've been hearing that it is going to undergo some changes "soon."

I have actually been seriously considering this. Like you though I have been debating whether or not I want to add the extra work onto the DVM. At Illinois you have to make the decision your first year, and then some of the classes are online and some are in Chicago. I am not sure how it all plays out, but I know it can add an extra year to the DVM. I only wish that I did not have to make the choice until at least second year to try and explore what I like the most.

I am hoping to meet some DVM/MPH students during orientation and gain some input from them.

Originally Posted by moosenanny

Davis' MPVM degree is super special and sounds really cool. I just wanted to let you know that they are currently considering re-vamping the program, and may get rid of the DVM pre-requisit (at least that's what I've heard). Not exactly sure how the program is going to change, but since before I started here I've been hearing that it is going to undergo some changes "soon."

Yeah, I've heard that too, but I'll only be a first year so I'm hoping it's revamped by that time. From what I understand, they aren't getting rid of it, just re-doing the curriculum. I've also head from the DVM/PhD I work with that another public health masters may be in the works that is less epidemiology based and more "One Health/Global Change" based .

I looked into doing a dual degree as well. I decided not to add any more stress to my DVM career! For the MPH, you have to start the summer before 1st year, take extra classes (mostly online, which I hate), and do a lot of extra work and research. If I do decide in the future I want to go into public health, I would rather take the extra year or two and really focus on that degree.

Very interested in this as well, because I'm very much in to the research side of veterinary medicine and I think this will open a few extra doors for me.

At VMR, from what I understand, it tacks on a few summers of courses (mix of online/lecture) and an extra semester after your DVM. As long as the hubby is okay with sticking in Blacksburg for a while, this is something I'd like to do! =)

I am currently applying to the VPH at Ohio State University, but there is not much info on the admissions process. Does anyone know if they interview for their program? Or how they select their students?

Originally Posted by cs5910

I am currently applying to the VPH at Ohio State University, but there is not much info on the admissions process. Does anyone know if they interview for their program? Or how they select their students?

I was wondering about OSU's DVM/MPH program as well! I hesitated in applying because I don't have any experience in public health and wasn't sure if that was something they looked at (does anyone know if they do look for experience for public health?). If anyone has any info, that would be awesome

Originally Posted by cs5910

I am currently applying to the VPH at Ohio State University, but there is not much info on the admissions process. Does anyone know if they interview for their program? Or how they select their students?

Originally Posted by Must Love Dogs

I was wondering about OSU's DVM/MPH program as well! I hesitated in applying because I don't have any experience in public health and wasn't sure if that was something they looked at (does anyone know if they do look for experience for public health?). If anyone has any info, that would be awesome

I completed OSU's MPH program so I can try to answer your questions.

This is the website on OSU: http://vet.osu.edu/vph-mph

This site has a link directly to the main campus' Public Health website where it describes how you apply since this program is part of both the College of Veterinary Medicine and the College of Public Health.

After applying for the program, people are interviewed by the director of the MPH-VPH program. I personally did not have any public health experience when I applied for the program. I was directly out of undergrad with a BS in Biology and a minor in Chemistry. The program accepts people from a variety of backgrounds (recent grads, veterinarians, working professionals) but they do look for individuals that have a genuine interest in public health. If you have any questions, the website listed above also has the email address of the program and anytime I have had a question, they have been more than willing to help me.

I did the combined DVM/MPH program at Tufts, so if you have any questions about it definitely shoot them my way. One unique thing about the Tufts program is that you complete both degrees within the regular four years of vet school. Yes, it's a little extra work, but totally possible.

Originally Posted by Evie1923

I completed OSU's MPH program so I can try to answer your questions.

This is the website on OSU: http://vet.osu.edu/vph-mph

This site has a link directly to the main campus' Public Health website where it describes how you apply since this program is part of both the College of Veterinary Medicine and the College of Public Health.

After applying for the program, people are interviewed by the director of the MPH-VPH program. I personally did not have any public health experience when I applied for the program. I was directly out of undergrad with a BS in Biology and a minor in Chemistry. The program accepts people from a variety of backgrounds (recent grads, veterinarians, working professionals) but they do look for individuals that have a genuine interest in public health. If you have any questions, the website listed above also has the email address of the program and anytime I have had a question, they have been more than willing to help me.

You guys are awesome! Thanks! I was just nervous to send an application in without any experience because I wasn't sure if admissions would even look at it. I think I'll try and contact them for more info since I'm a little confused about the deadline (for OSU). If you don't mind my asking, where are you planning to go with your DVM/MPH?

Originally Posted by Must Love Dogs

You guys are awesome! Thanks! I was just nervous to send an application in without any experience because I wasn't sure if admissions would even look at it. I think I'll try and contact them for more info since I'm a little confused about the deadline (for OSU). If you don't mind my asking, where are you planning to go with your DVM/MPH?

The deadline for the veterinary specialization program is the end of May each year. It is later than the rest of the MPH specializations for OSU. And if you are a little nervous, you can always email the program and set up a meeting with Dr. Hoet, the director. Talking to him before applying really helped me. I am planning on eventually applying for the CDC's Epidemic Intelligence Service after a few years of mixed animal practice. To apply a veterinarian must have an MPH or equivalent public health experience. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. I really feel completing the program was one of the best decisions I ever made!

I kinda regret not applying for mph/DVM programs...it's definitely something I'm interested in.

Do you have any recommendations regarding writing our personal statement f we don't have public health experience?

Originally Posted by cs5910

Do you have any recommendations regarding writing our personal statement f we don't have public health experience?

Even if you don't have public health experience, I am sure you know some of the roles veterinarians play in the field. I would research the variety of roles they can have in public health and mention in what capacity an MPH will impact your veterinary career and how this degree will aid you in achieving your goals. In my personal statement, I mentioned what I did know about veterinarians in public health, what I wanted to gain from the program and how I could combine it with my DVM degree to shape my career.

Originally Posted by Kwheezy

I kinda regret not applying for mph/DVM programs...it's definitely something I'm interested in.

Assuming you've applied this cycle for the class of 2017 - it's not necessarily too late! I'm not sure how many schools even offer application to a DVM/MPH program to students not already attending their school. I can only speak from my experience, but VMR allows students to enter the dual-degree program up to semester 3 of the DVM program.


Edit - Myself, I've begun slowly (slowly...) pulling together my application materials. I can't commit! DVM is hard work as it is, but I'm quite sure I'll end up getting an MPH in the future anyway, so may as well do it now..

Originally Posted by cs5910

Do you have any recommendations regarding writing our personal statement f we don't have public health experience?

I think the most important thing is to demostrate that you know a bit about the field so they can clearly understand your commitment and reason for applying. Even if you don't have much or any real experience working with public health veterinarians, your knowledge and commitment can still shine through in your statement.

I wanted to let you fellow DVM/MPHers and other potentially interested readers know that I have a helpful interview online with another Tufts DVM/MPH, Dr. Jonathan Epstein. He's a wildlife vet and infectious disease researcher with the EcoHealth Alliance in NYC, and he has pretty much my dream career as a dual degree veterinarian.

Even though Tufts might not be the best program anymore for a veterinary-specific MPH, it still produces pretty successful candidates like Jon!

You can listen or watch the interview here:

http://www.elliottgarber.com/wildlif...athan-epstein/

Originally Posted by Elliott Garber

he has pretty much my dream career as a dual degree veterinarian.

Erhmahgerd I totally second that. Way cool.

Glad I found this thread. I was just accepted to VMRCVM and find the DVM/MPH program very interesting as it hold open a few extra doors. Thanks Elliot for providing the link...it's great to uncover the nuances of the vet trade.

Originally Posted by RagtimeWillie

Glad I found this thread. I was just accepted to VMRCVM and find the DVM/MPH program very interesting as it hold open a few extra doors. Thanks Elliot for providing the link...it's great to uncover the nuances of the vet trade.

I'm DVM/MPH at VMRCVM as well, if you have any questions about the program I'd love to answer them. =)


Thanks for the link. The job market's really been getting me down lately, it's always nice to find career paths other than traditional veterinary medicine... that don't require five thousand years of additional schooling.

It's really nice that some schools, such as VMRCVM and Oregon, allow vet students to enter the dual degree programs after formal acceptance to the DVM program. In fact, Oregon won't even let you "apply" to the dual degree program until after you've started... So stoked to learn more about it when I get there!

I'm thinking about applying for the DVM/MPH at Tufts. I already got accepted into the DVM program and if I decide to apply for the dual degree I need to have my application in by March 1st. My concern is that it is a 4 year program and I might be taking away from other opportunities by only taking the Public Health classes in the free elective time. Its nice that you graduate with both degrees in 4 years, but it is time consuming and more tuition.

I'm also planning on doing the DVM/MPH dual degree program. I just interviewed at U of I and one of my interviewers was a current student in the DVM/MPH program. She really liked the program and mentioned that it's usually about 1 online class per semester, plus some summer coursework. She said that some of the MPH work isn't all that focused on animals, but you can pick electives that are.

Another school that offers a DVM/MPH dual degree program is Minnesota. I think Minnesota's is pretty similar in that it's a couple of online credits per semester, plus summer coursework. You can finish the MPH in four years, or I think within a couple of years after you graduate with your DVM, which is really nice.

I'm hoping some more DVM/MPH current students or graduates can chime in to talk about their experiences in their particular programs. I'm concerned about the extra workload, cost, and whether or not the MPH would be worth it. I've heard second hand that some students found the MPH courses to be boring/unrelated to what they were interested in, or mostly just busy work. :\

I'm just an MPH'er right now, but, honestly, if you do the minimum required for the degree it won't be that bad (at OSU it's done over 5 years in the dual program).

Originally Posted by gumtree

I've heard second hand that some students found the MPH courses to be boring/unrelated to what they were interested in, or mostly just busy work. :\

Unfortunately, many of the vet people who enter the MPH know very little about public health or what to expect from the core degree program, so disappointment happens.

Depending on your school, the core coursework will not be tailored for veterinary students. You will talk about things like smoking cessation, childhood obesity, sexual health, etc. Yes, some of those very human-focused topics will be boring to some vet students, but, in my experiences, they still relate to issues in veterinary medicine and veterinary public health (sometimes you have to try really hard to make the connection).

Also, some people just really hate biostatistics and epidemiology which are huge components of the degree and are very sensitive to "instructor quality."

Originally Posted by BGoodl

I'm thinking about applying for the DVM/MPH at Tufts. I already got accepted into the DVM program and if I decide to apply for the dual degree I need to have my application in by March 1st. My concern is that it is a 4 year program and I might be taking away from other opportunities by only taking the Public Health classes in the free elective time. Its nice that you graduate with both degrees in 4 years, but it is time consuming and more tuition.

I'm a drop out of the DVM/MPH program at Tufts, so what I have to say may be different from some students who are currently in the program. But I personally think that there's no way to get as much out of a MPH completed in the same 4 years as a vet degree as you would with doing the MPH degree on its own.
The advantages of the program are 1) it's cheaper than doing a MPH degree on its own and 2) it saves you time, so you can start working after vet school and start moving your way up the career ladder.
I'm close friends with all of the students my year who are DVM/MPH students, and it seems like all of them have more negative than positive things to say about the program. Basically, they constantly feel like they don't have enough time to devote to the MPH coursework and that in general, a lot of their MPH assignments seem like "busy work" to them that they feel will not be helpful in their career. Classes are mostly taken with MD/MPH students, and often the subject material is irrelevant to veterinary medicine (although there are some veterinary specific elective courses you get to take in 2nd and 3rd year). 3 out of the 4 remaining people in the program in our year (we started with 6) have told me that if they hadn't already committed so much time and weren't so far in the program, they'd drop out, although I know that for two of them, they feel like the MPH degree is a "now or never" type situation, and if they weren't doing the dual degree, they wouldn't pursue an MPH afterwards. And I think the students in the class ahead of mine and below mine who are in the dual degree program have more positive things to say about it.

Also, I should point out something that I wasn't clear about until I started classes in the beginning of first year - classes are not just on Tuesday afternoons (selective time). That's when the bulk of the class time is, and the time when you'll have to make the 2 hour round trip commute into Boston. But every other week or so, there's some sort of evening course in Grafton on Monday or Wednesday nights with required attendance.
And keep in mind you'll have to take a class the summer before vet school starts (or else have a crazy hectic fall semester first year), and you'll only have 6 weeks free during the summer between 1st and 2nd year (it used to be no free time, but they've changed it for the current first years so they have 6 weeks free).

My plan is to get a veterinary specific public health degree after I graduate - my top choice is to do the Masters in Preventive Vet Med (MPVM) program at UC Davis, but I'm also looking at other vet specific public health programs at Univ. of Iowa, NC State, Univ. of Guelph, or Univ. of Utrecht in the Netherlands. I have a friend who graduated from Tufts, and then went on to complete the MPVM at Davis after getting his DVM, and he told me that he felt like the MPVM program was a full time job - that there is no way he would've been able to do both a DVM and a public health degree that has a heavy workload as the MPVM degree and to do both adequately. And personally, every time I get behind in my vet school coursework, I feel a sense of relief that at least I don't have MPH assignments to deal with on top of everything else. But that may be less of an issue for students who don't procrastinate as much as I do.

So there are lots of pros and cons to doing the dual degree program, and I think it really depends on what your ultimate goals and priorities are.

I'm just getting my MPH right now, because like others have mentioned, I couldn't imagine doing so during vet school, nor do I think I could do it afterwards. I'd just want to WORK, haha. I have never been interested in private practice, so the MPH is pretty essential to what I want to do post-DVM. My degree is not tailored to veterinary medicine, but I have tried to take as many electives that deal with infectious diseases (often zoonotic). I love epidemiology, so that's been my major. But if the degree has been accredited by the CEPH, then there are 5 core competencies that every MPH student must learn:

1) Biostatistics
2) Epidemiology
3) Management & Policy Sciences
4) Environmental Health
5) Social & Behavioral Sciences

They may come under different names, but those are the core courses. Since I'm Epi, I have to take all 5 of those, plus a second semester of Biostatistics, two additional semesters of Epi, and two courses of special topics in Epidemiology (Disease Detectives, Laboratory Methods, Topics in Infectious Diseases). I've really, really enjoyed my last two years and I've been able to apply what I've learned to vet med many times. I hope to participate in the EIS when I graduate from vet school (V'18 hopeful!) to get even more real world experience and knowledge. Sorry for the novel, just wanted to put my story out there.

I was so excited to do a dual degree MPH/DVM when I start in the fall, but now with all this turmoil over loans and lack of jobs, I am afraid to get myself into an even deeper hole.... Now I am really confused as to what I want to pursue once I start..

Originally Posted by canis13

But I personally think that there's no way to get as much out of a MPH completed in the same 4 years as a vet degree as you would with doing the MPH degree on its own.

That's probably a very accurate statement about the dual degree.

I'm going to end up with three years of MPH work by the time I graduate. I wanted to be done in two, but due to something that was outside of my control, I wasn't able to stay on track with some of the non-coursework requirements. I'm trying to make the best of the situation though and doing the MPH solo has given me some flexibility that I'm sure would be near impossible in a heavily structured veterinary program.

While I didn't plan on doing a three year degree, when I finish, I will have completed a public health practicum, 60+ semester credits of graduate level coursework with lots of extra biological sciences, potentially two extra internships in the veterinary field, and I will have researched abroad and presented a poster at an international conference. If I were dividing my time between vet school and the MPH, I probably would not have been able to pursue all of those opportunities.

Of course, the huge negative is the $70,000 of student debt I'll have accumulated BEFORE vet school.

On a side note: Does it annoy anyone else that so many people are jumping into MPH programs when already in vet school? I've met some students who have picked up the degree but are obviously not very interested in the program. People who up until a few months ago were totally set on being small animal vets or something else in private practice but had this huge epiphany (probably called "soul-crushing-mountain-o-debt") that vet public health would be more "INTERE$TING."

Has it become a trendy career path?

Originally Posted by Jess Monster

On a side note: Does it annoy anyone else that so many people are jumping into MPH programs when already in vet school? I've met some students who have picked up the degree but are obviously not very interested in the program. People who up until a few months ago were totally set on being small animal vets or something else in private practice but had this huge epiphany (probably called "soul-crushing-mountain-o-debt") that vet public health would be more "INTERE$TING."

Has it become a trendy career path?

At least at Tufts, tou can't join the dual degree program after you start vet school and the MPH obviously adds a significant amount of extra work on top of your normal vet school load. So anyone who successfully completes the MPH clearly has a certain level of dedication to learning about public health.

With that being said, I've found it interesting that two or three of the current 3rd and 4th year DVM/MPH students that I've talked to plan to go into small or large animal internships and seemed like they didn't have any plans to do anything besides clinical medicine, at least for the foreseeable future. So it seems like they're high achievers who have a side interest in public health and the MPH degree will ultimately just be extra letters after their name. But I say that with a certain amount of respect, because it takes a lot of hard work to earn a masters degree in the same four years as vet school.

And overall, I'd say that it's not super common that people who are set on doing clinical medicine would change their minds and take a more office-work focused position with the government or a research organization just because it's a potentially more financially secure option. I mean, obviously the best of both worlds is if you can get a public health position that primarily involves field work (e.g. a USDA APHIS veterinary medical officer). But those positions seem like they're much harder to come by...and even then, there's a lot of knowledge and skills you learn in vet school that you won't use if you don't work in a clinical practice. I'm totally fine with the idea that I will be a veterinarian with a desk job with only occasional hands-on work. But I think that's pretty rare - most people who go to vet school are pretty set on interacting with animals on a daily basis.

Is it possible to get a MPH at a school that doesn't have a specific DVM/MPH program? I'd heard rumors about some online programs and was wondering if anyone else was familiar with that option.

Originally Posted by pirateyoho

Is it possible to get a MPH at a school that doesn't have a specific DVM/MPH program? I'd heard rumors about some online programs and was wondering if anyone else was familiar with that option.

You can get a dual degree MPH from the University of Minnesota as a vet student at any accredited US vet school. You basically spend about three weeks there at the beginning of the summer (I think it's two summers, but it might be three?), and the rest of the courses are either online or are courses from your DVM program that you can double count.

Originally Posted by Jess Monster

That's probably a very accurate statement about the dual degree.

I'm going to end up with three years of MPH work by the time I graduate. I wanted to be done in two, but due to something that was outside of my control, I wasn't able to stay on track with some of the non-coursework requirements. I'm trying to make the best of the situation though and doing the MPH solo has given me some flexibility that I'm sure would be near impossible in a heavily structured veterinary program.

While I didn't plan on doing a three year degree, when I finish, I will have completed a public health practicum, 60+ semester credits of graduate level coursework with lots of extra biological sciences, potentially two extra internships in the veterinary field, and I will have researched abroad and presented a poster at an international conference. If I were dividing my time between vet school and the MPH, I probably would not have been able to pursue all of those opportunities.

Of course, the huge negative is the $70,000 of student debt I'll have accumulated BEFORE vet school.

On a side note: Does it annoy anyone else that so many people are jumping into MPH programs when already in vet school? I've met some students who have picked up the degree but are obviously not very interested in the program. People who up until a few months ago were totally set on being small animal vets or something else in private practice but had this huge epiphany (probably called "soul-crushing-mountain-o-debt") that vet public health would be more "INTERE$TING."

Has it become a trendy career path?

Well, with the poor job outlook for people interested in private practice, it is actually not very surprising that people are jumping ship to get involved with public health. Anyway, why should we be annoyed/complain about people who want to make a difference from a One Health perspective by getting involved in public health?

Originally Posted by dovelover

You can get a dual degree MPH from the University of Minnesota as a vet student at any accredited US vet school. You basically spend about three weeks there at the beginning of the summer (I think it's two summers, but it might be three?), and the rest of the courses are either online or are courses from your DVM program that you can double count.

Thanks; I'll be sure to look into that more. My IS doesn't offer a DVM/MPH option, but it's definitely something I'm interested in.

Originally Posted by cs5910

...Anyway, why should we be annoyed/complain about people who want to make a difference from a One Health perspective by getting involved in public health?

... because the public health profession, like social work, has historically suffered from disinterested people filling its ranks. I have no complaints about people who care and those who want to make a difference. Those aren't the people I'm talking about.

If you're not annoyed by the possibility of passion-less people saturating your desired career field and, potentially, driving down the quality of your public health institutions, maybe you're not as easily annoyed as I am?

Or maybe you haven't met one of these people yet?

Originally Posted by Jess Monster

... because the public health profession, like social work, has historically suffered from disinterested people filling its ranks. I have no complaints about people who care and those who want to make a difference. Those aren't the people I'm talking about.

If you're not annoyed by the possibility of passion-less people saturating your desired career field and, potentially, driving down the quality of your public health institutions, maybe you're not as easily annoyed as I am?

Or maybe you haven't met one of these people yet?

For everybody just looking to throw in an MPH just to improve your job prospects, don't do it. Public health is one of those things that's really hard to force yourself to be interested in. You either find it exciting... or you don't. If you don't know if you'll like it, well, try taking a course in it or shadow someone who works in public health for a day (doesn't even have to be a veterinarian!) before committing fully. Can/did you barely survive statistics or epidemiology without punching yourself in the face or did it make you feel like this ? Are you going to vet school because you hate studying people, or do you appreciate how animals impact people and vice versa and appreciate the social/behavioral aspect to medicine? Does the thought of formulating policies make you want to ? Consider the answers to these questions before jumping into an MPH as a backup plan.