ABT: Dropped Foot

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Hey military docs. I was wondering can someone get in the military with a dropped foot do to a severed perennial nerve?

Not likely, although I have seen people on profiles with foot drop following nerve injury while on active duty.

Originally Posted by orbitsurgMD

Not likely, although I have seen people on profiles with foot drop following nerve injury while on active duty.

Could I get a waiver? Especially if I run, walk, ect ok?

Drop foot would not be waiverable.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

Drop foot would not be waiverable.

Ok so how do I get around it and demonstrate I'm physically able?

Not waiverable means no "getting around it." It is not physically qualifying and not waiverable. Sorry.

Some kid just got through ROTC missing a thumb. Where there is a will there is always a way. How do I make it clear to a doctor that I can physically handle military service? Collect reccomendations from civilian doctors?

Originally Posted by mforesta

Some kid just got through ROTC missing a thumb. Where there is a will there is always a way. How do I make it clear to a doctor that I can physically handle military service? Collect reccomendations from civilian doctors?

http://warriorforge.wordpress.com/20...dac/#more-2192

You are equating the partial digit loss of the individual in the story, whose defect was wiaverable with an entirely different kind of defect, a foot drop, which is not waiverable.

Even if an individual has a waiverable defect does not mean that person will receive a waiver. It is not an entitlement. Neither for that matter is an enlistment contract or a commission. Waivers are also subject to the needs of the service entirely unconnected with the waiverable defect; if they have no particular need for more people, then the waivers are not granted.For you, the point is academic; you do not have a waiverable defect.

How is it "academic" doctor. In what way would this prevent me from completing my duties as a soldier? I am as ambulatory and fast as I ever was. Explain to me why losing half a thumb is less debilitating than foot drop.

Some disqualifying defects are waiverable, others are not.

Whether a waiverable defect is waivered for a particular applicant depends on conditions that apply to that applicant and the conditions at the time of the application, namely how needed or how desirable the candidate is otherwise, at the time. People having disqualifying but waiverable defects must request a waiver of that disqualification. The waiver is not guaranteed. It may be granted or refused. No one has a "right" to have a disqualification waivered.

These considerations do not apply to non-waiverable conditions. Those defects are not eligible for waivers. Soliciting the opinions of civilian doctors is not going to make your non-waiverable disqualifying condition into a waiverable condition for which you otherwise might solicit a waiver (understanding that even if it were waiverable, it might be denied.)

So I will repeat, the discussion about waiverable defects is academic. Foot drop is not a waiverable defect.

Not to play the other side. Mforesta states he has a history of foot drop. Is this condition still active? Does he have strength in the nerve the common peroneal nerve distribution. Is your foot drop still active? You need to have yourself evaluated by a civilian physician and have a thorough neuro exam. If you have the neurologic deficit you are not eligible.

It is still active. My dream is to serve how do I overcome this. I am not physically disabled by it.

I hear you and wish I could tell you differently, but "overcoming" a non-waiverable disqualifying diagnosis is not something anyone reading here is going to be able to tell you how to do. You may believe your diagnosis makes you no less physically qualified than another interested applicant without a disqualifying diagnosis, but that is not the issue, nor is it going to be an issue for advocacy by which you could expect to become waivered. Again, sorry. There are other ways to serve your country.

Where are these regulations located. In my experience there is always a loophole.

I suggest you write the service branch in which you have an interest and ask.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r40_501.pdf

Note chapter 2 and Appendix A.

I get chapter 2 but what am I looking for in appendix A? Also, it does not say which ones are waiverable and which are not.

The only way to determine if you are physical qualified (or have a waiverable condition) to enter the service is go through the DODMERB physical exam process. Of all things, I was considered disqualified for my teeth after 6 years of proven active duty service. This was because I was being appointed as a Medical Corps Officer. Officer appointments have a different review process from enlistments. While the other poster is absolutely correct about the regulation the only way to find out is to actually apply and go through the process. The evaluation will determine if you qualify for a waiver. However, because this is a "existed prior to service" impairment it will need to be judged if it will be service exacerbated. The Federal Government is legally restricted from appointing and enlisting people with diseases or injuries that will be made worse by military service....kinda makes sense.

BTW, the eligibility for waiver is determined by the severity of the condition and the needs of the service.

Anything I can do to up my chances? Plus I doubt military service would aggravate it.

Originally Posted by mforesta

Anything I can do to up my chances? Plus I doubt military service would aggravate it.

Not trying to be a jerk but it really doesn't seem like you're taking any advice from these guys already practicing in the military, and you're not going to get better info on here than from them. As has been stated multiple times, the best thing you can do right now is go talk with a recruiter.

Originally Posted by mforesta

Anything I can do to up my chances? Plus I doubt military service would aggravate it.

Anything is waiverable - with the proper connections. A 3-4 star General/Admiral or congressman/senator could probably get you in. BUT - only if they seriously knew you and were willing to put political capital in the way to help you out. I.e. - if you were their Godson or close family friend. Not if you were joe schmoe off the street. I've heard of some crazy things getting waived with the right connections.

For the 99.9% - you're stuck with what you've got. Go to the recruiter and give it a whirl, hope for the best, and fight like hell. You never know. My brother had open heart surgery in infancy and got a commission - but had to fight for it.

I would not recommend lying (although lying probably wouldn't do you any good...). Recruiters often "suggest" that those who have a previous medical condition which would require a waiver neglect to mention it... but do NOT do this if the condition could remotely recur. You would open yourself to administrative separation, which is not fun, and even prosecution under UCMJ.

Originally Posted by mforesta

How is it "academic" doctor. In what way would this prevent me from completing my duties as a soldier? I am as ambulatory and fast as I ever was. Explain to me why losing half a thumb is less debilitating than foot drop.

Another thought - you need to think about this in terms of how it would look to the medical authority deliberating your case. (Since I'm a Navy/Marine type, I'll use BUMED as my example).

Extrapolate to a worst case scenario. If you're on patrol with Marines and take fire in the mountains of Afghanistan, would your injury affect your mobility? Would you be more likely to trip and break your leg - requiring me to put my life at risk to save both of ours? I'm guessing you're probably OK on pavement, but not on uneven terrain. Or maybe you are (or think you are), but BUMED won't care. They'll think of that worst case scenario, and will not be confident of your performance. (even if, most likely, you'll never leave the hospital)

And as a final thought - as a former gunslinger, based purely on the above information, I wouldn't want you in my battalion/ship/squadron. No offense, but in a combat/crisis scenario you could become a liability instead of a force multiplier.

Originally Posted by numberwunn

Anything is waiverable - with the proper connections. A 3-4 star General/Admiral or congressman/senator could probably get you in . . .

For the 99.9% - you're stuck with what you've got. Go to the recruiter and give it a whirl, hope for the best, and fight like hell. You never know. My brother had open heart surgery in infancy and got a commission - but had to fight for it.

. . . ..

It is important to not sow false hopes. "Anything" may not be waiverable, nor is everything waiverable, even with highly-placed connections. There are definitely non-waiverable conditions for which no exceptions are made. Suggesting that the accession standards are subject to corruption--which is what you are really implying--is a misrepresentation of facts.

A foot drop as we are discussing here is a lower extremity neuropathy with paralysis. It is an active and ongoing problem that is not expected to improve. Let's say for the sake of argument that it is not expected to worsen, either. Suggesting that it is in the same category as a history of infant cardiac surgery which may have corrected a defect that over twenty years has not shown any sequelae or left any decrease in function is again confusing that which is not waiverable (i.e., cannot be waivered) with that is waiverable (but might or might not be waivered depending on the individual applicant and the needs of the service at the time.) "Give it a whirl" implies that getting a waiver is a matter of chance, and that is a misrepresentation of the process.

Going through the application process and the physical may be the only way the OP can come to terms with his circumstances, but it does no one any good to suggest the DODMERB process is some kind of casino game where you never know what the outcome might be.

Originally Posted by orbitsurgMD

Suggesting that the accession standards are subject to corruption--which is what you are really implying--is a misrepresentation of facts.

it does no one any good to suggest the DODMERB process is some kind of casino game where you never know what the outcome might be.

I have not been involved in the DODMERB process, so I can only speak to the other end of the equation. I'm sure the folks making the decisions are doing their best to make it a perfectly fair, reliable system. But from watching others go through the process and having worked with recruiters, the process certainly seems like a crapshoot from the outside looking in. If you sent in two guys who have the exact same condition - the impression is that one guy may get the waiver, the other not. Maybe one guy gets seen by a MD who is sympathetic, and downplays the condition; maybe the other guy's package gets looked at on a day when the reviewer(s) were in a particularly bad mood. It is a human institution and there is an element of variability.

We like to believe that the military has standard procedures which are always followed and never deviated - but personal connections can trump such standards. "Drug deals" have been, in my experience, the rule rather than the exception in the military writ large. And I don't know that it's a bad thing, frankly.

None of this is meant as an insult to the folks making the decisions (it seems as if you have first hand knowledge?) - and I'm not trying to give false hope to our OP (I'd put a paycheck against him getting a waiver). But I don't know that the system is as black and white as you make it out. My brother, for one, had one of those "non-waiverable conditions for which no exceptions are [ever] made." Yet an exception was made.

So my advice stands - go to the recruiter, give it a whirl, hope for the best, fight like hell. He'll never know unless he tries.

Originally Posted by numberwunn

I have not been involved in the DODMERB process, so I can only speak to the other end of the equation. I'm sure the folks making the decisions are doing their best to make it a perfectly fair, reliable system. But from watching others go through the process and having worked with recruiters, the process certainly seems like a crapshoot from the outside looking in. If you sent in two guys who have the exact same condition - the impression is that one guy may get the waiver, the other not. Maybe one guy gets seen by a MD who is sympathetic, and downplays the condition; maybe the other guy's package gets looked at on a day when the reviewer(s) were in a particularly bad mood. It is a human institution and there is an element of variability.

We like to believe that the military has standard procedures which are always followed and never deviated - but personal connections can trump such standards. "Drug deals" have been, in my experience, the rule rather than the exception in the military writ large. And I don't know that it's a bad thing, frankly.

None of this is meant as an insult to the folks making the decisions (it seems as if you have first hand knowledge?) - and I'm not trying to give false hope to our OP (I'd put a paycheck against him getting a waiver). But I don't know that the system is as black and white as you make it out. My brother, for one, had one of those "non-waiverable conditions for which no exceptions are [ever] made." Yet an exception was made.

So my advice stands - go to the recruiter, give it a whirl, hope for the best, fight like hell. He'll never know unless he tries.

There are some things that can be downplayed or overlooked. Most of those have no outward signs. Mental Health issues, childhood asthma and such can be written off or given a waiver (although they probably should not be). A drop foot is a significant problem and would become obvious. Even in a doctor, it would hinder the member's ability to perform in an operational environment. Guys are getting kicked out for it so why would we let someone in with it?

are we talking about the common peroneal nerve?

Originally Posted by tabascosauce

are we talking about the common peroneal nerve?

Procrastinating turned into Step I studying...sweet!