MD & DO Looking for advice about what to do with my life (21Q MCAT, 3.00 cGPA, 2.8 sGPA)

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So like I said in the title, 3.0 cGPA, around 2.8 sGPA, BS in Biochemistry, and:

6+ years as a CNA at a prominent hospital
a year of tutoring chemistry, physics, and calculus
1 year of science research
about 6 months of volunteer clinical research at a hospital's ER
Vice President of a chemistry club during my senior year of undergrad
Physician-shadowing experience

I took the MCAT my junior year and got a 13O (5P, 5B, 3V)
Retook last summer after my senior year and got a 17P (7P, 3B, 7V)
Took things very seriously and from January to late April I studied about 10 hrs/day using a study plan commonly found on these boards, and got my score back and I got a 21Q (7P, 6B, 8V)

Looking at my MCAT scores, there is definitly a general upward trend, but I just can't crack that 25 mark. I took every AAMC practice exam, TPR exam, and a few others. Although I don't think med schools give 2 craps about upward trends with the MCAT especially if I'm barely cracking the 20-mark.

I realize that I can't get into MD schools with those scores, so I am faced with some options:

1) Go back to school and get a MS in Chemistry, then apply to DO schools after working my butt off getting a 3.5+ GPA as a grad student. If that doesn't work out, then a PhD in chemistry isn't a bad option, since a 3.5+ graduate GPA (and ~1200 GRE that I took last year) should get me into a respectable PhD program, plus the professor whom I worked with during undergraduate is a very successful professor in the department, and her students are often very successful at getting published.

2) Apply to one of the big 4 Caribbean med schools, and I heard that with a score of 20+ on the MCAT I should be able to get in at least one of them. Though I was also discouraged by some people that went to the Caribbean for school, and I am also discouraged that I may not be able to perform well on the boards because of my history with the MCAT, and I think I read somewhere that I only have like 6 months to pass the boards because of I'd be from Caribbean schools.

3) Apply to podiatry schools. I hear that they are easy to get into. I have no problem working with feet, since I often have to change dressings and such for some of my patients that have sores on their feet/legs, or have had their feet amputated. I'd be able to do what an orthopedic surgeon would do if I go with the surgery route for residency. Though being a DPM isn't internationally recognized, and I hear getting a residency is very tough to do, even though there are only like 8 or 9 pod schools.

4) (I'm actually uncertain if this is possible due to my MCAT score) but go through the MS in chemistry route, and have that awesome GPA that I talked about, and then apply to DO schools. I'm just unsure how well a 21Q would fair, especially that by that time, the new MCAT exam will be rolling out, and even if I wanted to retake my MCAT exam for the 4th time, I'm probably going to be too late to the game.

I know by now you're all probably going but any advice would help me out here.

EDIT: sorry, I just realized that 1 and 4 are sort of the same thing.

Retake pre-reqs and other science classes to help your DO GPA. A 21 is still extremely low, even for DO schools. If you studied hard and took it very seriously, as you say you did, you might need to consider a different career path.

I don't want to just retake classes for 2 years, and then apply, and then I might still get rejected. With an MS degree, the very least I can do is get a job with it, or go and advance my degree even further. In other words, I would be at least going somewhere, versus wasting my time retaking classes I got Cs in.

My first impression is that you should look into a career other than medicine.

Your cGPA is over a standard deviation below average for DO and your sGPA is almost a standard deviation below average. Your MCAT is almost 2 standard deviations below average.

If you are black, your GPAs and MCAT are only about half a standard deviation below average, but that is still pretty low.

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicants...antsummary.pdf

You might get into a medical school, but I doubt you will pass your boards.

That said, maybe there is some reason for your low GPAs and MCAT scores.

Did you have some horrible illness/family tragedy? Did you have severe money troubles that prevented you from giving full efforts to your studies?

Originally Posted by V5RED

My first impression is that you should look into a career other than medicine.

Your cGPA is over a standard deviation below average for DO and your sGPA is almost a standard deviation below average. Your MCAT is almost 2 standard deviations below average.

If you are black, your GPAs and MCAT are only about half a standard deviation below average, but that is still pretty low.

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicants...antsummary.pdf

You might get into a medical school, but I doubt you will pass your boards.

That said, maybe there is some reason for your low GPAs and MCAT scores.

Did you have some horrible illness/family tragedy? Did you have severe money troubles that prevented you from giving full efforts to your studies?

I don't want to make excuses, though a lot happened. No illness thankfully, though during undergrad I lived in a small apartment with my family, and my parents went through 3 years of breaking up their marriage throuh ugly fights and such, and I was often kicked out of the house for intervening, and had to sleep in my car many nights. The thing is, that this happened on and off until my parents broke off their marriage during my senior year.

Also, English is my second language, I came to the US at the age of 11 and I am now 22. My English is very good, especially when it came to writing, but I have always been a slow reader.

These all sound like a bunch if excuses to me though, so I don't know if they are remotely plausible for my poor performance. They were some terrible days of my life though. I can definitely say that I have gotten much more mature since undergrad and I wanna prove that without wasting my time retaking classes, since I won't be moving forward.

Honestly, if you can stomach podiatry, I suggest you do that. You don't only have an incredibly low GPA, but you also have a bad MCAT. It sounds to me like you either don't have the aptitude for medicine or don't have commitment. Either way, it doesn't mean you can't find a great career alternative.

Originally Posted by blo

4. Podiatry school might be an option (though you may not even be competitive for that, I don't know).

Average POD GPA is like a 3.2 and the MCAT like a 22-23, so he's definitely shoe-in.

What's up buddy!

I wouldn't listen to most of these guys. Everyone has their own story. I took almost all my pre reqs my freshman year, and took the MCAT after I graduated (4 years later). It took me about 3 months to learn the content. Not because I'm dumb, but because it had been so long since I had seen the material. With your score, it sounds like you need to brush up on some content. Being a doctor is a long process, and SDN will make it sound like it's simple. It's not. You will struggle, and that's okay. Just bounce back. If you want to be a doctor, I say don't give up. Get your masters and get a 4.0 (the adcoms will see that you can handle some tough classes). Retake the MCAT for sure. Don't give up.

Motivation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZnuqqpGme8

i suggest podiatry or research. If there is a field of medicine you are passionate about, you could still be involved with it by researching. a chem degree would certainly help here, or you could apply to another PhD program. Realistically, if you had to study material that you had already learned multiple times for 10 hrs/day the third time you took the mcat, it would be extremely hard to pass your classes in med school. The amount of material is so overwhelming at times that you won't have the luxury of looking at it more than once or twice before an exam. Even people with high 30s/40s on the mcat would probably agree to that. Besides, you want to have fun, take time to breathe, and enjoy life occasionally, right?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I don't want to make excuses, though a lot happened. No illness thankfully, though during undergrad I lived in a small apartment with my family, and my parents went through 3 years of breaking up their marriage throuh ugly fights and such, and I was often kicked out of the house for intervening, and had to sleep in my car many nights. The thing is, that this happened on and off until my parents broke off their marriage during my senior year.

Also, English is my second language, I came to the US at the age of 11 and I am now 22. My English is very good, especially when it came to writing, but I have always been a slow reader.

These all sound like a bunch if excuses to me though, so I don't know if they are remotely plausible for my poor performance. They were some terrible days of my life though. I can definitely say that I have gotten much more mature since undergrad and I wanna prove that without wasting my time retaking classes, since I won't be moving forward.

With a low gpa and a low MCAT, the only way TO move forward is to retake classes and maybe take some upper levels and get A's, and retake the MCAT. I feel for your situation, but with this comment, it seems like you want to get into medical school, but you don't want to put in the effort to do so. It isn't a "waste of time", it is literally the only thing you can do to help yourself at this point.

Originally Posted by Total180

With a low gpa and a low MCAT, the only way TO move forward is to retake classes and maybe take some upper levels and get A's, and retake the MCAT. I feel for your situation, but with this comment, it seems like you want to get into medical school, but you don't want to put in the effort to do so. It isn't a "waste of time", it is literally the only thing you can do to help yourself at this point.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to go for a MS in a science than to just retake classes though?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

Wouldn't it be a better idea to go for a MS in a science than to just retake classes though?

Masters degrees are notorious for grade inflation, and grad gpas are calculated separately. Unless you are doing an SMP which is designed specifically for med admissions (and if you are looking to have a backup degree, it wouldn't really help, cause like I said, it's designed especially for medical school admissions), any other grad degree isn't really known to help that much. Especially when your undergrad gpa is lacking. I know you are trying to have backup plans and whatnot, but if you want to be a doctor you need to go about focusing on that, and not trying to do both. Only you can decide if it is worth the time and effort that it is going to take to rectify things. If you want to be a doctor the best thing to help your situation is to go back and retake any classes you got a C or lower in, starting with any pre-req classes then other science classes, then maybe take some upper levels to get a high upward trend. I would wait to retake the MCAT until you have retaken some science classes, since, if you were studying like you said you were for the last test, you have some knowledge deficits that would likely be helped by the retake of pre-req classes. You could probably get to where you need to be for DO by next application cycle if you work hard and take full semesters. Remember though, you MUST get A's. Calculate how many retakes it would take to get your cum and sgpa's up to about a 3.2. If you can establish a good upward trend, and get a 26+ on the MCAT I think you could have a shot at DO schools...I think MD is kinda out at this point though.

It is your decision if you want to jump head first into trying to make it into medical school, or if you want to do something that would help you in a career in something else....at this point though, you don't really have the option to do both. At least not in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Total180

Masters degrees are notorious for grade inflation, and grad gpas are calculated separately. Unless you are doing an SMP which is designed specifically for med admissions (and if you are looking to have a backup degree, it wouldn't really help, cause like I said, it's designed especially for medical school admissions), any other grad degree isn't really known to help that much. Especially when your undergrad gpa is lacking. I know you are trying to have backup plans and whatnot, but if you want to be a doctor you need to go about focusing on that, and not trying to do both. Only you can decide if it is worth the time and effort that it is going to take to rectify things. If you want to be a doctor the best thing to help your situation is to go back and retake any classes you got a C or lower in, starting with any pre-req classes then other science classes, then maybe take some upper levels to get a high upward trend. I would wait to retake the MCAT until you have retaken some science classes, since, if you were studying like you said you were for the last test, you have some knowledge deficits that would likely be helped by the retake of pre-req classes. You could probably get to where you need to be for DO by next application cycle if you work hard and take full semesters. Remember though, you MUST get A's. Calculate how many retakes it would take to get your cum and sgpa's up to about a 3.2. If you can establish a good upward trend, and get a 26+ on the MCAT I think you could have a shot at DO schools...I think MD is kinda out at this point though.

It is your decision if you want to jump head first into trying to make it into medical school, or if you want to do something that would help you in a career in something else....at this point though, you don't really have the option to do both. At least not in my opinion.

I think this is a very valid post.

Im confused though you spent 900 hours studying for the mcat and got a 21? Where do you think you went wrong?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I don't want to make excuses, though a lot happened. No illness thankfully, though during undergrad I lived in a small apartment with my family, and my parents went through 3 years of breaking up their marriage throuh ugly fights and such, and I was often kicked out of the house for intervening, and had to sleep in my car many nights. The thing is, that this happened on and off until my parents broke off their marriage during my senior year.

Also, English is my second language, I came to the US at the age of 11 and I am now 22. My English is very good, especially when it came to writing, but I have always been a slow reader.

These all sound like a bunch if excuses to me though, so I don't know if they are remotely plausible for my poor performance. They were some terrible days of my life though. I can definitely say that I have gotten much more mature since undergrad and I wanna prove that without wasting my time retaking classes, since I won't be moving forward.

This is very similar to what was happening to me while I was studying for the mcat. I spent time with the material, but because of all these family issues, I was not really focused on it as I should have been. I ended up screwing up the mcat too but thankfully my gpa sort of compensated. I think that you need to spend a significant amount of time with content at first and then practice your reading. Start off reading the questions at a slow pace and then gradually try to increase your reading speed. It may sound kind of weird, but whispering the words as I read them actually helped my speed and not losing track of where I was in the reading. I would also spend some time reading difficult and boring material on your computer to get use to the computer format. During the test, staring at the bright monitor wasn't helping me much. Pod school doesn't sound like a bad option either.

Originally Posted by Doctoor

Wouldn't it be a better idea to go for a MS in a science than to just retake classes though?

A masters will not help you at most programs since they suffer from grade inflation. Most programs will not take it into account. A minority of programs will take it into account, but you will not be able to overcome the low undergraduate with it. It's simply not possible. If you want medicine, you need to do what's required to get into medical school: retake courses, take new upper division sciences, and you must retake the MCAT scoring at least a 25.

Honestly, look into a DPM program. The program is 4 years. You would be wasting 2 years already with a normal masters. Once you get your DPM, you are eligible for the NSUCOM program for DPM to DO which is 3 years long. They will count your grades from undergrad + DPM in their GPA considerations. This means that instead of getting a useless masters that will give you at best a so-so career in a lab after two years, you can get a real career paying 100k+. If you end up going to medical school, you would have only invested 1 extra year since the DO program will then be 3 years. Please don't waste your time anymore. Chances for you to pull up your grades + MCAT are low and would take you at least 2 years. Go for the safer route leaving yourself the door open for DO school in the future.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

A masters will not help you at most programs since they suffer from grade inflation. Most programs will not take it into account. A minority of programs will take it into account, but you will not be able to overcome the low undergraduate with it. It's simply not possible. If you want medicine, you need to do what's required to get into medical school: retake courses, take new upper division sciences, and you must retake the MCAT scoring at least a 25.

Honestly, look into a DPM program. The program is 4 years. You would be wasting 2 years already with a normal masters. Once you get your DPM, you are eligible for the NSUCOM program for DPM to DO which is 3 years long. They will count your grades from undergrad + DPM in their GPA considerations. This means that instead of getting a useless masters that will give you at best a so-so career in a lab after two years, you can get a real career paying 100k+. If you end up going to medical school, you would have only invested 1 extra year since the DO program will then be 3 years. Please don't waste your time anymore. Chances for you to pull up your grades + MCAT are low and would take you at least 2 years. Go for the safer route leaving yourself the door open for DO school in the future.

I've never heard of the DPM to DO program before. Do I still need to bring up my MCAT for that or is it just, get really good grades in Pod school, and I am admitted as a DO at NSUCOM?

Also, since I won't be applying to Pod schools till next year anyway, do you suggest that I go for a MS either way? I was looking at the chem MS program at my undergrad university, and I would be taking courses like advanced biochemistry, and I have the option to take upper level biology courses as well, like advanced physio or an immunology course for instance. Doing that for a year couldn't hurt right?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I've never heard of the DPM to DO program before. Do I still need to bring up my MCAT for that or is it just, get really good grades in Pod school, and I am admitted as a DO at NSUCOM?

Also, since I won't be applying to Pod schools till next year anyway, do you suggest that I go for a MS either way? I was looking at the chem MS program at my undergrad university, and I would be taking courses like advanced biochemistry, and I have the option to take upper level biology courses as well, like advanced physio or an immunology course for instance. Doing that for a year couldn't hurt right?

I don't know the details of admissions for the DPM to DO program. You might want to contact NSU for that.

Well, a masters is typically 2 years where you're going to school and not earning any money and pay for tuition. Is that something you want or are willing to do? If so, I guess it doesn't hurt. You can apply to Pod this year if you want. Your scores are good enough to WesternU and other Pod schools. I think they start taking applications in August.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

I don't know the details of admissions for the DPM to DO program. You might want to contact NSU for that.

Well, a masters is typically 2 years where you're going to school and not earning any money and pay for tuition. Is that something you want or are willing to do? If so, I guess it doesn't hurt. You can apply to Pod this year if you want. Your scores are good enough to WesternU and other Pod schools. I think they start taking applications in August.

I'm assuming taking apps for fall 2013?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I'm assuming taking apps for fall 2013?

Can I ask you why you want to go to medical school?

Originally Posted by Doctoor

So like I said in the title, 3.0 cGPA, around 2.8 sGPA, BS in Biochemistry, and:

6+ years as a CNA at a prominent hospital
a year of tutoring chemistry, physics, and calculus
1 year of science research
about 6 months of volunteer clinical research at a hospital's ER
Vice President of a chemistry club during my senior year of undergrad
Physician-shadowing experience

I took the MCAT my junior year and got a 13O (5P, 5B, 3V)
Retook last summer after my senior year and got a 17P (7P, 3B, 7V)
Took things very seriously and from January to late April I studied about 10 hrs/day using a study plan commonly found on these boards, and got my score back and I got a 21Q (7P, 6B, 8V)

Looking at my MCAT scores, there is definitly a general upward trend, but I just can't crack that 25 mark. I took every AAMC practice exam, TPR exam, and a few others. Although I don't think med schools give 2 craps about upward trends with the MCAT especially if I'm barely cracking the 20-mark.

I realize that I can't get into MD schools with those scores, so I am faced with some options:

1) Go back to school and get a MS in Chemistry, then apply to DO schools after working my butt off getting a 3.5+ GPA as a grad student. If that doesn't work out, then a PhD in chemistry isn't a bad option, since a 3.5+ graduate GPA (and ~1200 GRE that I took last year) should get me into a respectable PhD program, plus the professor whom I worked with during undergraduate is a very successful professor in the department, and her students are often very successful at getting published.

2) Apply to one of the big 4 Caribbean med schools, and I heard that with a score of 20+ on the MCAT I should be able to get in at least one of them. Though I was also discouraged by some people that went to the Caribbean for school, and I am also discouraged that I may not be able to perform well on the boards because of my history with the MCAT, and I think I read somewhere that I only have like 6 months to pass the boards because of I'd be from Caribbean schools.

3) Apply to podiatry schools. I hear that they are easy to get into. I have no problem working with feet, since I often have to change dressings and such for some of my patients that have sores on their feet/legs, or have had their feet amputated. I'd be able to do what an orthopedic surgeon would do if I go with the surgery route for residency. Though being a DPM isn't internationally recognized, and I hear getting a residency is very tough to do, even though there are only like 8 or 9 pod schools.

4) (I'm actually uncertain if this is possible due to my MCAT score) but go through the MS in chemistry route, and have that awesome GPA that I talked about, and then apply to DO schools. I'm just unsure how well a 21Q would fair, especially that by that time, the new MCAT exam will be rolling out, and even if I wanted to retake my MCAT exam for the 4th time, I'm probably going to be too late to the game.

I know by now you're all probably going but any advice would help me out here.

EDIT: sorry, I just realized that 1 and 4 are sort of the same thing.

Maybe apply to an LPN or RN program. If you want something more medical in nature, you could pursue the EMS path (EMT-B --> EMT-P). With your history, podiatry is probably on the high side of your options. What do you like about medicine?

Just apply to SMPs. You might be able to get into RFU's BMS program or the SMP at EVMS, which are the two high-linkage programs. If you get into those, you just have to get As and Bs in the medical courses for a year, and they'll accept you into their respective MD schools. This is exactly what I did last year. If this route doesn't work (which is largely up to your work ethic) I would apply to DPM (which is an excellent alternative) and other allied health schools. I doubt you really want to take the time and money to dilute your subpar grades with better ones, and I advise not going to the caribbean if you can help it. And your grades are too low for DO schools. So, if I were you, I'd look into SMPs and go at them with an all-or nothing attitude. If you succeed, you'll be an MD. If you fail, you'll be applying to other professional schools with a mucked-up grad GPA.

Originally Posted by Unzbuzzled

Just apply to SMPs. You might be able to get into RFU's BMS program or the SMP at EVMS, which are the two high-linkage programs. If you get into those, you just have to get As and Bs in the medical courses for a year, and they'll accept you into their respective MD schools. This is exactly what I did last year. If this route doesn't work (which is largely up to your work ethic) I would apply to DPM (which is an excellent alternative) and other allied health schools. I doubt you really want to take the time and money to dilute your subpar grades with better ones, and I advise not going to the caribbean if you can help it. And your grades are too low for DO schools. So, if I were you, I'd look into SMPs and go at them with an all-or nothing attitude. If you succeed, you'll be an MD. If you fail, you'll be applying to other professional schools with a mucked-up grad GPA.

You need MCAT of 29+ for those SMP programs.

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I'm assuming taking apps for fall 2013?

Yes.

Originally Posted by music2doc

Maybe apply to an LPN or RN program. If you want something more medical in nature, you could pursue the EMS path (EMT-B --> EMT-P). With your history, podiatry is probably on the high side of your options. What do you like about medicine?

EMT-P isn't really a sustainable "end goal" except as a springboard to PA school. Lots of my co-workers leave the field after ... 5 years or so to pursue RN, RT, PA, etc... It's a rough career on the body (and soul!), most people wanna get out by age 40/45... Also not really high enough pay to support a family, I can barely feed myself and my dog on this income

Municipal medics in well-funded cities do well (same as firemedics), but those positions are becoming rare and hard to acquire.

OP if I were in your shoes I'd go accelerated NP to piggypack off your bachelors degree. I bet with your science classes and MCAT prep you'd crush the TEAS and maybe even get a scholarship/full ride to an accelerated BSN or NP program. From there if you're still motivated I'd do CRNA. Your CNA and other pre-med experience will help you be at the top of your class in nursing school and would open up a lot of doors.

Originally Posted by blo

Could OP even handle the rigors of nursing school?

I hope you are kidding

Originally Posted by Doctoor

So like I said in the title, 3.0 cGPA, around 2.8 sGPA, BS in Biochemistry, and:

6+ years as a CNA at a prominent hospital
a year of tutoring chemistry, physics, and calculus
1 year of science research
about 6 months of volunteer clinical research at a hospital's ER
Vice President of a chemistry club during my senior year of undergrad
Physician-shadowing experience

I took the MCAT my junior year and got a 13O (5P, 5B, 3V)
Retook last summer after my senior year and got a 17P (7P, 3B, 7V)
Took things very seriously and from January to late April I studied about 10 hrs/day using a study plan commonly found on these boards, and got my score back and I got a 21Q (7P, 6B, 8V)

Looking at my MCAT scores, there is definitly a general upward trend, but I just can't crack that 25 mark. I took every AAMC practice exam, TPR exam, and a few others. Although I don't think med schools give 2 craps about upward trends with the MCAT especially if I'm barely cracking the 20-mark.

I realize that I can't get into MD schools with those scores, so I am faced with some options:

1) Go back to school and get a MS in Chemistry, then apply to DO schools after working my butt off getting a 3.5+ GPA as a grad student. If that doesn't work out, then a PhD in chemistry isn't a bad option, since a 3.5+ graduate GPA (and ~1200 GRE that I took last year) should get me into a respectable PhD program, plus the professor whom I worked with during undergraduate is a very successful professor in the department, and her students are often very successful at getting published.

2) Apply to one of the big 4 Caribbean med schools, and I heard that with a score of 20+ on the MCAT I should be able to get in at least one of them. Though I was also discouraged by some people that went to the Caribbean for school, and I am also discouraged that I may not be able to perform well on the boards because of my history with the MCAT, and I think I read somewhere that I only have like 6 months to pass the boards because of I'd be from Caribbean schools.

3) Apply to podiatry schools. I hear that they are easy to get into. I have no problem working with feet, since I often have to change dressings and such for some of my patients that have sores on their feet/legs, or have had their feet amputated. I'd be able to do what an orthopedic surgeon would do if I go with the surgery route for residency. Though being a DPM isn't internationally recognized, and I hear getting a residency is very tough to do, even though there are only like 8 or 9 pod schools.

4) (I'm actually uncertain if this is possible due to my MCAT score) but go through the MS in chemistry route, and have that awesome GPA that I talked about, and then apply to DO schools. I'm just unsure how well a 21Q would fair, especially that by that time, the new MCAT exam will be rolling out, and even if I wanted to retake my MCAT exam for the 4th time, I'm probably going to be too late to the game.

I know by now you're all probably going but any advice would help me out here.

EDIT: sorry, I just realized that 1 and 4 are sort of the same thing.

I think OP needs to sit down and really think if this is the right field for them. If you can't handle getting at least a 3.5 and a 24 mcat then I hate to say it but med school may be a little too difficult to handle. What is the reason for the low grades/mcat? Did you have a family issue or did you not concentrate heavily on your undergraduate studies? Really think about this before you invest in medical school.

I hate to hickjack your forum but can someone advice me too? Please.

As for advice for you, any score lower than 7-8 is a problem. This is the problem I am having with my Verbal, I took is twice and have 6

As for total MCAT score most school like to have minimum of 27-28. above 30 is better.
Best of Luck
April

Originally Posted by Doctoor

I hope you are kidding

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are simply rocked by the suggestion that nursing school is not a compelling alternative for you at his point (and not that you are belittling their programs).

Given that your MCAT is a MUCH more serious problem than your GPAs (although they are both ugly), and that nursing school doesn't really require an equivalent examination, I think nursing IS a plausible goal. It would still probably require grade retakes, and if not that, SOME form of serious GPA repair. My sister would know better than I, but if you're interested, look around. Unless you have some really good reason for your intensive studying failing you so completely on the third go-around on the MCAT, you're pretty much peaked, which in turn pretty much counts you out of the running for med school programs (unless you have some legendary ECs that would impress a very open-minded DO program).

Originally Posted by Pattycake25

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are simply rocked by the suggestion that nursing school is not a compelling alternative for you at his point (and not that you are belittling their programs).

Given that your MCAT is a MUCH more serious problem than your GPAs (although they are both ugly), and that nursing school doesn't really require an equivalent examination, I think nursing IS a plausible goal. It would still probably require grade retakes, and if not that, SOME form of serious GPA repair. My sister would know better than I, but if you're interested, look around. Unless you have some really good reason for your intensive studying failing you so completely on the third go-around on the MCAT, you're pretty much peaked, which in turn pretty much counts you out of the running for med school programs (unless you have some legendary ECs that would impress a very open-minded DO program).

It seems clear to me that the OP wants the ability to diagnose and treat patients, which is a job completely different than nursing. I don't know why there is this mindset that nursing is somehow Medicine-Minus. Ironically, by your suggestion you are belittling their programs.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

It seems clear to me that the OP wants the ability to diagnose and treat patients, which is a job completely different than nursing. I don't know why there is this mindset that nursing is somehow Medicine-Minus. Ironically, by your suggestion you are belittling their programs.

That what most people do. Even my parent think Medicine-Minus = Nursing.

Anyway can someone give me advice also. I got 6 on verbal, 12 on bio and 13 on physical and M on writing. And got 3.5-6 ish on my GPA

Originally Posted by dprs

That what most people do. Even my parent think Medicine-Minus = Nursing.

Anyway can someone give me advice also. I got 6 on verbal, 12 on bio and 13 on physical and M on writing. And got 3.5-6 ish on my GPA

Unless you start your own thread, you'll be ignored.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

Average POD GPA is like a 3.2 and the MCAT like a 22-23, so he's definitely shoe-in.

Was that intentional?

OP, as others have stated, you may want to further your career as a nurse because I don't think medicine is for you, unfortunately. Maybe if you could manage to get into an SMP or retake some classes and the MCAT you could try DO...?

Originally Posted by Charles Darwin

Was that intentional?

I was beginning to get worried when nobody had pointed it out.

No guys, nursing is definitely not for me. Like I said I've been working as a CNA for over six years, and I cannot see myself being an RN, and I'm honestly sick of wiping people's butts for a living. I can't do that **** for the rest of my life.

Originally Posted by Doctoor

No guys, nursing is definitely not for me. Like I said I've been working as a CNA for over six years, and I cannot see myself being an RN, and I'm honestly sick of wiping people's butts for a living. I can't do that **** for the rest of my life.

CNA is very different than a RN or a Nurse Practioner (you get to prescribe med). Have you considered the accelerate nursing program called Alternative Entry Master of Science in Nursing (AEMSN)? It's a program designated for adults with a bachelor degree in non-nursing, you get to take your NCLEX after your first year, and then you get to work at a hospital as RN until you complete your program.

Originally Posted by ECU Pirate

CNA is very different than a RN or a Nurse Practioner (you get to prescribe med). Have you considered the accelerate nursing program called Alternative Entry Master of Science in Nursing (AEMSN)? It's a program designated for adults with a bachelor degree in non-nursing, you get to take your NCLEX after your first year, and then you get to work at a hospital as RN until you complete your program.

Yes I know exactly what an RN and NP do. I work along side of them, and I've been doing that for 6 years. RNs still do lots of patient care, baths, and clean up patients and such... Along with the usual nursing things like passing out meds, consulting physicians and NPs/PAs. I know a nurse doesn't have to work in that environment at all times, and could go into 100 of different things, like management, home care, doctor's office, etc.

It's just not for me, and I know that because I have been working in that nursing environment since I was 16.

Hi OP, for some reason, i feel like you have it in you to pursue medicine - IF you could answer for yourself, "Why medicine?" If you have the passion for medicine, you will find the drive to get your MCAT up and your grades up.

If being a physician isn't for you, then how about PA school? That's what I think is the career that is similar in scope and practice as an MD/DO. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it?

Originally Posted by Tribeca

Hi OP, for some reason, i feel like you have it in you to pursue medicine - IF you could answer for yourself, "Why medicine?" If you have the passion for medicine, you will find the drive to get your MCAT up and your grades up.

If being a physician isn't for you, then how about PA school? That's what I think is the career that is similar in scope and practice as an MD/DO. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it?

It's not easy to get into PA school, you need about a 3.5 GPA to get in. I applied to about 8 of them and got rejected from all of them, even though my GRE is around 1200.

Originally Posted by TriagePreMed

Unless you start your own thread, you'll be ignored.

hahaha he's lucky he even got your response.

Originally Posted by Doctoor

It's not easy to get into PA school, you need about a 3.5 GPA to get in. I applied to about 8 of them and got rejected from all of them, even though my GRE is around 1200.

most people need even higher than a 3.5. lots of people with less than that get in though because of their extensive EC's

Originally Posted by Doctoor

So like I said in the title, 3.0 cGPA, around 2.8 sGPA, BS in Biochemistry, and:

6+ years as a CNA at a prominent hospital
a year of tutoring chemistry, physics, and calculus
1 year of science research
about 6 months of volunteer clinical research at a hospital's ER
Vice President of a chemistry club during my senior year of undergrad
Physician-shadowing experience

I took the MCAT my junior year and got a 13O (5P, 5B, 3V)
Retook last summer after my senior year and got a 17P (7P, 3B, 7V)
Took things very seriously and from January to late April I studied about 10 hrs/day using a study plan commonly found on these boards, and got my score back and I got a 21Q (7P, 6B, 8V)

Looking at my MCAT scores, there is definitly a general upward trend, but I just can't crack that 25 mark. I took every AAMC practice exam, TPR exam, and a few others. Although I don't think med schools give 2 craps about upward trends with the MCAT especially if I'm barely cracking the 20-mark.

I realize that I can't get into MD schools with those scores, so I am faced with some options:

1) Go back to school and get a MS in Chemistry, then apply to DO schools after working my butt off getting a 3.5+ GPA as a grad student. If that doesn't work out, then a PhD in chemistry isn't a bad option, since a 3.5+ graduate GPA (and ~1200 GRE that I took last year) should get me into a respectable PhD program, plus the professor whom I worked with during undergraduate is a very successful professor in the department, and her students are often very successful at getting published.

2) Apply to one of the big 4 Caribbean med schools, and I heard that with a score of 20+ on the MCAT I should be able to get in at least one of them. Though I was also discouraged by some people that went to the Caribbean for school, and I am also discouraged that I may not be able to perform well on the boards because of my history with the MCAT, and I think I read somewhere that I only have like 6 months to pass the boards because of I'd be from Caribbean schools.

3) Apply to podiatry schools. I hear that they are easy to get into. I have no problem working with feet, since I often have to change dressings and such for some of my patients that have sores on their feet/legs, or have had their feet amputated. I'd be able to do what an orthopedic surgeon would do if I go with the surgery route for residency. Though being a DPM isn't internationally recognized, and I hear getting a residency is very tough to do, even though there are only like 8 or 9 pod schools.

4) (I'm actually uncertain if this is possible due to my MCAT score) but go through the MS in chemistry route, and have that awesome GPA that I talked about, and then apply to DO schools. I'm just unsure how well a 21Q would fair, especially that by that time, the new MCAT exam will be rolling out, and even if I wanted to retake my MCAT exam for the 4th time, I'm probably going to be too late to the game.

I know by now you're all probably going but any advice would help me out here.

EDIT: sorry, I just realized that 1 and 4 are sort of the same thing.

not to discourage you, but with your MCAT scores and GPA, i don't think you will be accepted to any of the big 4 caribean schools. Just letting you know this so you don't waste your time. Also if even after studying for 10 hrs/day, you can only score a 21, then I think you should re-evaluate whether or not you are capable of passing med school exams and boards. i wish you the best of luck!

Originally Posted by angldrps

not to discourage you, but with your MCAT scores and GPA, i don't think you will be accepted to any of the big 4 caribean schools. Just letting you know this so you don't waste your time. Also if even after studying for 10 hrs/day, you can only score a 21, then I think you should re-evaluate whether or not you are capable of passing med school exams and boards. i wish you the best of luck!

SABA will take anything. Ross will probably put him in one of those alternative programs to leech his money before they enter him to the MD class.

Like I said before if you have money and a pulse, there is a Caribbean school for you!

Sure, OP could go Caribbean, but isn't it almost impossible to get a residency stateside as a Caribbean graduate?

Originally Posted by Mjolner

Sure, OP could go Caribbean, but isn't it almost impossible to get a residency stateside as a Caribbean graduate?

Maybe, maybe not. It would be very difficult for OP to get into a MD or DO school with that GPA and MCAT score. It would take years for OP to repair his/her GPA and MCAT score, and go through the whole application cycle again.

At least some Caribbean medical schools are willing to give OP a chance to experience medical school, a chance to take the USMLE Step 1, a chance to take the USMLE Step 2 and a chance to apply for a residency spot in the US. If she is truly determined to become a physician, I believe she should be able to do well on the USMLE exams.

Have you considered physician assistant school? Unless you have problems not being at the top of the chain of command, it can be a great option. All of the physician assistants that I know love their jobs, and there are actually a lot of areas for specialization; JHU has a one-year surgical residency for physician assistants who wish to primarily work as a first assist. Based on my understanding of the requirements for PA school, you ought to be very competitive -- many schools do not even require the MCAT.

Do you have any idea what type of medicine that you want to practice? If you want to do primary care, I can't see any reason why being a PA-C wouldn't suit you wonderfully. If you're set on being an orthopedic surgeon, I suggest you learn to compromise, and fast. Ortho residencies are highly competitive amongst those who were competitive enough to attend allopathic schools, so I don't think that's an option for you. All I'm saying is, orthopedic surgeons need great first assists, and a PA-C is an excellent entry to that career with a similar educational culture and structure, if not equivalent depth.

Last, ask yourself this: do you really want to struggle and delay doing what you are interested in for another four or five years? You're a competitive PA applicant, and you could be working as a physician assistant in three.

Edit: I just saw that a few other folks mentioned PA school already and suggested that you are not a competitive applicant. First: if you are considering even attempting to go to medical school, you should absolutely be considering PA school because, simply put, PA school is not as competitive as medical school. Second: there is a lot of variability in the requirements of PA schools. If you do your research and apply broadly I would expect good results. Find a program that values work experience over academic performance and I think you would do well.

I think your main goal should just be to improve your MCAT score, and if you find you are unable to do so you should consider a different career path. You have studied significantly more than average yet your score is much worse than average (not just for those applying, but for test takers as well) and your GPA supports that you don't have the work ethic and/or talent for medicine. Maybe you can turn it all around with a higher MCAT score, and I'm rooting for you to pull it off if you do decide to keep trying at it, but I think you should accept that unless you can get your MCAT score higher this likely isn't the right career path.

Good luck.

Dude, if you are cool with podiatry, I'd apply there. As others have mentioned, the cycle for spots in Fall 2013 opens August 1st.

Your stats are still on the low side of pod school, but let's face it, if you're on the low side of podiatry - you aint gettin in anywhere but podiatry.

Originally Posted by elevenses

Have you considered physician assistant school? Unless you have problems not being at the top of the chain of command, it can be a great option. All of the physician assistants that I know love their jobs, and there are actually a lot of areas for specialization; JHU has a one-year surgical residency for physician assistants who wish to primarily work as a first assist. Based on my understanding of the requirements for PA school, you ought to be very competitive -- many schools do not even require the MCAT.

Do you have any idea what type of medicine that you want to practice? If you want to do primary care, I can't see any reason why being a PA-C wouldn't suit you wonderfully. If you're set on being an orthopedic surgeon, I suggest you learn to compromise, and fast. Ortho residencies are highly competitive amongst those who were competitive enough to attend allopathic schools, so I don't think that's an option for you. All I'm saying is, orthopedic surgeons need great first assists, and a PA-C is an excellent entry to that career with a similar educational culture and structure, if not equivalent depth.

Last, ask yourself this: do you really want to struggle and delay doing what you are interested in for another four or five years? You're a competitive PA applicant, and you could be working as a physician assistant in three.

Edit: I just saw that a few other folks mentioned PA school already and suggested that you are not a competitive applicant. First: if you are considering even attempting to go to medical school, you should absolutely be considering PA school because, simply put, PA school is not as competitive as medical school. Second: there is a lot of variability in the requirements of PA schools. If you do your research and apply broadly I would expect good results. Find a program that values work experience over academic performance and I think you would do well.

I'm sorry, but the OP's GPA is not competitive anywhere, for any school.

-In the Winter of 2010, the BYU College of Nursing accepted 64 students. The lowest GPA of an accepted student was a 3.77.

-Students accepted this year into the Oregon Health & Science University Physician Assistant Program have an average GPA of 3.46.

-In 2009, the average GPA for all students accepted into podiatry schools was a 3.3.

Point is, the OP has a horrible GPA and a horrible MCAT........I don't know what else to say. Grade replacement doesn't make sense since the MCAT is still a problem. Good luck OP--and remember, you still have that biochem degree, so put it to use (doing what, I don't know).

Originally Posted by Fed

I'm sorry, but the OP's GPA is not competitive anywhere, for any school.

-In the Winter of 2010, the BYU College of Nursing accepted 64 students. The lowest GPA of an accepted student was a 3.77.

-Students accepted this year into the Oregon Health & Science University Physician Assistant Program have an average GPA of 3.46.

-In 2009, the average GPA for all students accepted into podiatry schools was a 3.3.

Point is, the OP has a horrible GPA and a horrible MCAT........I don't know what else to say. Grade replacement doesn't make sense since the MCAT is still a problem. Good luck OP--and remember, you still have that biochem degree, so put it to use (doing what, I don't know).

Caribbean Medical Schools! OP could study really hard in med school and have a GPA..and do well on USMLE Step 1 and 2....Residency programs won't care about OP's undergrad GPA or MCAT score.