Pa to md/do

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Hello Everyone,

I am new to the site. I would like to get your thoughts on how difficult it would be to get into medical school after being a PA for several years. I understand that I have to take the MCAT and go through the process like everyone else, but I wanted to see what your views are coming from a non-traditional view. My graduate GPA is 3.4 from over 90 credits of PA school. My undergrad was less than stellar with a 2.97. I worked nights full-time as a paramedic several years while taking daytime undergrad courses. It kinda killed my GPA.
I worked as a paramedic over 10 years and have 5 years as a PA. Any thoughts on my chances?

Search my thread history going back to 2005. It can be done...just finished first year. Fair warning: almost the hardest thing I have ever done. good luck....

Originally Posted by PA2Doctor

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the site. I would like to get your thoughts on how difficult it would be to get into medical school after being a PA for several years. I understand that I have to take the MCAT and go through the process like everyone else, but I wanted to see what your views are coming from a non-traditional view. My graduate GPA is 3.4 from over 90 credits of PA school. My undergrad was less than stellar with a 2.97. I worked nights full-time as a paramedic several years while taking daytime undergrad courses. It kinda killed my GPA.
I worked as a paramedic over 10 years and have 5 years as a PA. Any thoughts on my chances?

I second the above poster that the application process is pretty grueling. Long story short, your experience as a PA won't make up for a low GPA or MCAT. You'll have to take the requirements and do well which include college physics, calc, o-chem, bio and more. Your science GPA and overall GPA will have to be pretty solid too. If you can clear the numbers you should take a shot. Consider DO school since its generally considered easier to get into then MD programs.

for more specifics on what types of numbers you want to aim for look at:

https://www.aamc.org/download/270906...ridall0911.pdf

And look into the 3-yr Accelerated Physician Assistant Pathway at LECOM.


QUOTE=tobi44;12600729]I second the above poster that the application process is pretty grueling. Long story short, your experience as a PA won't make up for a low GPA or MCAT. You'll have to take the requirements and do well which include college physics, calc, o-chem, bio and more. Your science GPA and overall GPA will have to be pretty solid too. If you can clear the numbers you should take a shot. Consider DO school since its generally considered easier to get into then MD programs.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by PA2Doctor

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the site. I would like to get your thoughts on how difficult it would be to get into medical school after being a PA for several years. I understand that I have to take the MCAT and go through the process like everyone else, but I wanted to see what your views are coming from a non-traditional view. My graduate GPA is 3.4 from over 90 credits of PA school. My undergrad was less than stellar with a 2.97. I worked nights full-time as a paramedic several years while taking daytime undergrad courses. It kinda killed my GPA.
I worked as a paramedic over 10 years and have 5 years as a PA. Any thoughts on my chances?

Well I would definitely apply to medical school. I can tell you EVERY YEAR around late July I used to get a little depressed and wondered-"Could I make it through medical school". I also used to worry about what would happen when I hit 55yo and I had a 30yo Attending, would I be comfortable in that situation.

I would personally apply to MD and D.O. both. I got into a MD program(wasn't the right fit I went to some summer programs there when I was younger and just rubbed me the wrong way) and several D.O. programs as well(although I didn't get into my top choice D.O. which I thought was odd )

Most of my interviews were surrounding my time as a PA, asked me how I felt about the progession of the profession, asked me about ethics, and tested my medical knowledge in some way. So I would say that being a PA definitely does help you.

Also I have heard of some P.A.'s getting into programs with Mcats there were less than 20(although I don't personally know any) as well and I am assuming that this was due to the committees knowing a PA could handle the rigors of med. school?

I have also heard of PAs moonlighting on breaks(I do this) and working during second year of medical school PT(I couldn't due to the way my program is structured) and making enough to pay bills and live on while taking out loans.

Also as Prima said I would apply to the LECOM bridge. I almost delayed entry into starting school when I heard that it had opened but I realized I was not a definite shoe in for that program when so many of us are applying into it.

So to sum my rambling up if I were you I would:
1.)Take a diagnostic MCAT to see where you stand
2.)Think about schools you could be comfortable with(some schools will be more lenient with that 2.9ish if your URM I would assume).
3.)Apply as soon as you can.
4.)Consider the family implications if your married with a family at this point( I have seen plenty of divorces and relationships fail in my class)
5.)Inbox people on here such as myself that are both PA-med. students that would probably be happy to help you.

Final note/question-Why are you going back? Is it for money? Or is it due to hitting the "ceiling" that we all talk about hitting as PAs?

If it was/is for money I would think LONG and HARD about going back due to there being so many ways for us to make $ and have a normal life without going back to medical school and gaining a nice mortage payment in debt.

Take care, good luck.(again sorry if it appears like rambling but its almost 1am and doing this on a quick break prior to starting back for 3 more hours of board study before bed.)
e.

I am starting fourth year and was a PA prior to medical school. It has been a love-hate relationship being in school. But looking back, it was the best decision for me. It truly is a personal decision and not for everyone, especially depending on your stage in life. If you have further questions, feel free to send me a PM. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Makati2008

Well I would definitely apply to medical school. I can tell you EVERY YEAR around late July I used to get a little depressed and wondered-"Could I make it through medical school". I also used to worry about what would happen when I hit 55yo and I had a 30yo Attending, would I be comfortable in that situation.

I would personally apply to MD and D.O. both. I got into a MD program(wasn't the right fit I went to some summer programs there when I was younger and just rubbed me the wrong way) and several D.O. programs as well(although I didn't get into my top choice D.O. which I thought was odd )

Most of my interviews were surrounding my time as a PA, asked me how I felt about the progession of the profession, asked me about ethics, and tested my medical knowledge in some way. So I would say that being a PA definitely does help you.

Also I have heard of some P.A.'s getting into programs with Mcats there were less than 20(although I don't personally know any) as well and I am assuming that this was due to the committees knowing a PA could handle the rigors of med. school?

I have also heard of PAs moonlighting on breaks(I do this) and working during second year of medical school PT(I couldn't due to the way my program is structured) and making enough to pay bills and live on while taking out loans.

Also as Prima said I would apply to the LECOM bridge. I almost delayed entry into starting school when I heard that it had opened but I realized I was not a definite shoe in for that program when so many of us are applying into it.

So to sum my rambling up if I were you I would:
1.)Take a diagnostic MCAT to see where you stand
2.)Think about schools you could be comfortable with(some schools will be more lenient with that 2.9ish if your URM I would assume).
3.)Apply as soon as you can.
4.)Consider the family implications if your married with a family at this point( I have seen plenty of divorces and relationships fail in my class)
5.)Inbox people on here such as myself that are both PA-med. students that would probably be happy to help you.

Final note/question-Why are you going back? Is it for money? Or is it due to hitting the "ceiling" that we all talk about hitting as PAs?

If it was/is for money I would think LONG and HARD about going back due to there being so many ways for us to make $ and have a normal life without going back to medical school and gaining a nice mortage payment in debt.

Take care, good luck.(again sorry if it appears like rambling but its almost 1am and doing this on a quick break prior to starting back for 3 more hours of board study before bed.)
e.

kill the mcat and you should be fine

To all the PAs in this thread: why are you considering medical school?

What about your PA experience pushed you toward medicine?

Don't you have more time, less stress and an earlier start date than in medicine? If so, what sort of things are pulling you towards the 4 years of medical school, and the 3+ years of residency?

Originally Posted by Signifier

To all the PAs in this thread: why are you considering medical school?

What about your PA experience pushed you toward medicine?

Don't you have more time, less stress and an earlier start date than in medicine? If so, what sort of things are pulling you towards the 4 years of medical school, and the 3+ years of residency?

In my case I wanted to gain full independent practice rights also I wanted to get paid at the Physician rate fo what I am doing. Also I felt like I was nearing the point of hitting the glass ceiling. Lastly my job offered for my school to be about 90% free.

Originally Posted by Signifier

To all the PAs in this thread: why are you considering medical school?
Don't you have more time, less stress ? If so, what sort of things are pulling you towards the 4 years of medical school, and the 3+ years of residency?

many pa's work more than the docs in their groups. in my group pa's work 180 hrs/mo and docs max around 130. docs make 3x what pa's do.
also for those considering the bridge program it is 3+3 years

emedpa, I defer to your greater experience but this sounds quite at odds with everything I've read and heard about the average working time of physicians vs. PAs. For most physicians, the average work week is closer to 54 hours (see Dorsey et al, JAMA, Vol 290 (9) Sept., 2003, 1174).

And most docs just report working longer hours in general - but perhaps some situations are different.

What is the "bridge program" you speak of?

Originally Posted by Signifier

emedpa, I defer to your greater experience but this sounds quite at odds with everything I've read and heard about the average working time of physicians vs. PAs. For most physicians, the average work week is closer to 54 hours (see Dorsey et al, JAMA, Vol 290 (9) Sept., 2003, 1174).

And most docs just report working longer hours in general - but perhaps some situations are different.

What is the "bridge program" you speak of?

primary care docs likely work more hrs than the pa's they employ but remember pa's are hired to do the work docs don't want to do at times and in places that they don't want to do it. for example in surgical practices pa's often do the early am and weekend rounds, hospital admits and discharges, clinic time, etc to allow the doc to focus on spending time in the o.r.
I know hundreds of pa's and aside from those who choose to work part time or per diem don't know any working full time who work less hrs than the docs they work with.
lecom in erie Pennsylvania has a 3 yr pa to do bridge program.

Originally Posted by Signifier

emedpa, I defer to your greater experience but this sounds quite at odds with everything I've read and heard about the average working time of physicians vs. PAs. For most physicians, the average work week is closer to 54 hours (see Dorsey et al, JAMA, Vol 290 (9) Sept., 2003, 1174).

And most docs just report working longer hours in general - but perhaps some situations are different.

What is the "bridge program" you speak of?

i probably average about 60 hours a week. on a call week, it can be between 70-80 hours...

but i feel like my supervising physician works almost 2x as much as me haha

so yea, i do work less than my supervising doc, but i definitely work way more than a 40 hour work week

I work 67 hrs this week. the doc I work with the most works around 30.

Originally Posted by emedpa

I work 67 hrs this week. the doc I work with the most works around 30.

30??!! That can't be typical though.

the avg pa in our group works 180 hrs/mo. the avg er doc works 120-130

many pa's work more than the docs in their groups. in my group pa's work 180 hrs/mo and docs max around 130. docs make 3x what pa's do.

First, please stop using ER docs as the basis for your sample size for all physicians. They are a small portion of practicing physicians, and they work fewer hours than almost any other subspecialty (see attached)

Secondly, please stop making general statements based on your unique situation. Volumes of national data indicate that in large midlevels work less than physicians. A simple google search will provide you with reams of data indicating otherwise. Please look at things in relationship to national numbers as opposed to your small practice environment where the physicians work nearly 50% less than the national average. To hold your unique situation out as a standard is disingenuous

Thirdly, if you want to compare anecdotes, in the numerous health care systems that I have worked, I have never seen a midlevel work more hours than their associated physicians. However, this is only my anecdote

Physician work hours.ppt

hours worked by physicians.ppt

physician-assistant work hours.pdf

Physician work hours.ppt

hours worked by physicians.ppt