PASS question

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This PPI vs PEF thing is really confusing..since most programs require a recommendation from either the chairman or program director or both, which type of recommendation do they have to submit? Does it have to be PEF? Or either is fine? Even when I visited the website of each and every program (OMS), most of them do not mention anything about this. So any input is greatly appreciated

This is something I am also really interested in understanding. Can we submit only PEFs?

Anyone?

A high-ranking pedo faculty at my school told me that a PPI survey from a "department head" was fine. I think that if you have two LOR's from general faculty that are strong it would be a better idea to submit those and then have the chairman submit a PPI if they wouldn't be able to write you as strong of a letter

Thanks for the tip! So is it safe to assume that to programs, it does not matter which recommendation letter format came from which type of faculty?

Other inputs are still very welcome!

Originally Posted by hammoudeh71

Other inputs are still very welcome!

PPI seems to be a MUST (can be 3-5). and PEL is OPTIONAL (max 2). But most programs still require 3 LOR. Does anyone see the conflict with PASS and schools or just I'm being stupid here.

Originally Posted by oral09

PPI seems to be a MUST (can be 3-5). and PEL is OPTIONAL (max 2). But most programs still require 3 LOR. Does anyone see the conflict with PASS and schools or just I'm being stupid here.

Max 2 for PEF? Is that what it says in PASS? Most programs are not specific about the requirements, yet I can't seem to figure out which ones seem more important on an applicant's profile and whether there is any preference for the ones submitted by chairmans and program directors

It is my understanding that you must fill out a PASS application and send additional information to the programs. Therefore, you submit the PPI forms via PASS, but you send the LOR directly to the program. There is a list on the ADEA/PASS website that shows what additional information each school wants. However, my confusion is in the discrepancy between the program websites and the ADEA/PASS website as to what information each program wants. I am unsure as to which list to go by because apparently the program directors edit the information on ADEA/PASS website and one would assume they are in charge of editing the information on the program's website as well. If anyone has an answer, please let me know!

I totally agree with you on that. For example, lutheran medical centers want you to upload your photo on the PASS, but hello~~, it's not possible (verified by PASS)! They say one thing on their web sites and the other on the ADEA search engine. People are not doing their jobs. Why is it so hard???

Originally Posted by sweettooth87

It is my understanding that you must fill out a PASS application and send additional information to the programs. Therefore, you submit the PPI forms via PASS, but you send the LOR directly to the program. There is a list on the ADEA/PASS website that shows what additional information each school wants. However, my confusion is in the discrepancy between the program websites and the ADEA/PASS website as to what information each program wants. I am unsure as to which list to go by because apparently the program directors edit the information on ADEA/PASS website and one would assume they are in charge of editing the information on the program's website as well. If anyone has an answer, please let me know!

Well I searched almost each and every program's website, but neither said that there have to LORs as an additional component to be sent directly to the program (at least OS programs). Besides if we can upload it on PASS as PEF why would we need to send it directly to the program?.. And yeah.. Tell me about the contradictions! Looks like I need to call or email every single program and ask what they need. Thanks for the input though!

So.. there's
1) PPI- required by all (3-5 indiv forms to compile overall eval). Appears to be a standardized form where applicants are given a numerical value for each characteristic/ category. Does not allow for comments or to expand on any given characteristic.

and 2) PEF- optional, but recommended by most (PASS gives a limit of 2/program; " If you elect to submit PEFs, you will be limited to assigning no more than two of them to any program you designate to receive your ADEA PASS application."). Not exactly sure what the form consists of (specific questions, open-ended questions, blank form for paragraph style entry, etc)? This seems to be a form where someone could really expand on various qualities (True/False?). The majority of the programs I've noticed want one of these from a OMS Dept Chair and/or Program Director (True/ False?). So, although not "required", these seem like could potentially carry more weight, good or bad, with other Dept Chairs and Prog Directors (True/ False?)

So this brings up a few questions (assuming all of the above are True- please correct if I've assumed incorrectly):
- if a programs wants say.. 3 PEF's, how do you send a 3rd when PASS will only allow 2?
- Does "title" matter for PPI evaluators, or simply quality of evaluations? (assuming you received the same evaluation from Academic Dean and let's say, the Custodian)
- Should PEF's be saved only for OMS Chair, Prog Director, and any faculty who you have a solid relationship with? (i.e., Utilize OMS faculty for PEFs, and other faculty for PPIs-- *Or should there be some PPI's from OMS faculty as well?)
-Traditional recommendation letters: Covered by PEF's? Considered PEF's? Should be submitted in additional to PEF's? (reason: say one has a strong relationship with Dept Chair/ Prog Director and you think that they would write a stellar letter of rec. Should you get them to do PEF, Letter of Rec, both, or are these equal in program's eyes?)

Originally Posted by FourthMolar

So.. there's
1) PPI- required by all (3-5 indiv forms to compile overall eval). Appears to be a standardized form where applicants are given a numerical value for each characteristic/ category. Does not allow for comments or to expand on any given characteristic.

and 2) PEF- optional, but recommended by most (PASS gives a limit of 2/program; " If you elect to submit PEFs, you will be limited to assigning no more than two of them to any program you designate to receive your ADEA PASS application."). Not exactly sure what the form consists of (specific questions, open-ended questions, blank form for paragraph style entry, etc)? This seems to be a form where someone could really expand on various qualities (True/False?). The majority of the programs I've noticed want one of these from a OMS Dept Chair and/or Program Director (True/ False?). So, although not "required", these seem like could potentially carry more weight, good or bad, with other Dept Chairs and Prog Directors (True/ False?)

So this brings up a few questions (assuming all of the above are True- please correct if I've assumed incorrectly):
- if a programs wants say.. 3 PEF's, how do you send a 3rd when PASS will only allow 2?
- Does "title" matter for PPI evaluators, or simply quality of evaluations? (assuming you received the same evaluation from Academic Dean and let's say, the Custodian)
- Should PEF's be saved only for OMS Chair, Prog Director, and any faculty who you have a solid relationship with? (i.e., Utilize OMS faculty for PEFs, and other faculty for PPIs-- *Or should there be some PPI's from OMS faculty as well?)
-Traditional recommendation letters: Covered by PEF's? Considered PEF's? Should be submitted in additional to PEF's? (reason: say one has a strong relationship with Dept Chair/ Prog Director and you think that they would write a stellar letter of rec. Should you get them to do PEF, Letter of Rec, both, or are these equal in program's eyes?)

Great input. One little correction though, PPIs allow comments and expansion on someone's characteristics. Actually one faculty at my school told me that he can put the very same details in either ppi or pef only with a different structure.
How did you know that most programs require PEFs from directors/chairmans? I could not find such a thing on either PASS or their respective websites.

I didnt see the PASS require me to send my part I NDBE. Can anyone confirm this please? Thank you

Originally Posted by oral09

I didnt see the PASS require me to send my part I NDBE. Can anyone confirm this please? Thank you

You should NOT send board scores to PASS, it should be included in your institutional evaluation or deans letter along with class rank if applicable. However, most programs require a copy to be submitted directly to them from ADA

Originally Posted by hammoudeh71

Great input. One little correction though, PPIs allow comments and expansion on someone's characteristics. Actually one faculty at my school told me that he can put the very same details in either ppi or pef only with a different structure.
How did you know that most programs require PEFs from directors/chairmans? I could not find such a thing on either PASS or their respective websites.

Thanks for the info. So, what then is the reasoning for having separate eval forms (as opposed to one expanded form)?

I misspoke by saying "most/majority" require/recommend this. A few programs specify about the PEF forms (see below). Can we assume that if it is important to some that it might be to others, or safer to go by only what is "written"?

Here are a couple of those programs that listed it in "additional info" on PASS:

-U of FL, Gainesville: "Please submit 3 PPI's and 3 PEF's. This Program requires 2 of the PEF's are from the Director and Chair of Oral Surgery (mandatory), Oral Surgeon and OMS faculty."

-WVU: "Required Number of PPI Evaluators: 3 and Required Number of Professional Evaluation Forms: 2. Recommended Evaluators for the Professional Evaluation Form(s): Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon, and Dental School Faculty Member or General Dentist.

I don't want to mislead anyone here, but trying to appease every program's requirements will seem like a bit much. When I applied I had 2 PEFs (all that PASS allowed) and 3 PPIs, and while some schools had requested more they didn't have a problem interviewing me. I'm sure there are some schools that are strict about this but I think most are just looking for whatever PASS will allow... though they may unknowingly ask for more.

-Cyrus