New DO school...

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Thanks to DO schools popping up like McDonalds we will nearing the end of medicine as we know it.

Has anyone done research on this..because its getting kind of ridiculous.


http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/communica...HCOM/index.htm

lol wtf jk ttyl.


Also, after just skimming the article it seems as though this is just an extension campus of OU's (similiar to what MSUCOM did two years ago). Says the first class is going to have 32 students, which isn't too gaudy.

This is a treading fashion in both the DO and MD realms (even though it seems like DO schools are popping up like wildflowers). I am just happy I am in school now before the market seemingly gets saturated with physicians (which may take a while if the growth of American physicians pushes the FMGs out). Who knows though, especially with reform eventually heading our way.

As far as DO school expansion goes, this is probably the best planned and connected one I have seen.

I remember a thread a while back that listed all of the proposed new DO schools and extensions...do we know if that thread has been updated to reflect the actual new schools and extensions? Is the increase in schools as bad as it sounds? I know the poor economy prevented some of the plans from actually taking place.

it's going to be affliated with Cleveland Clinic so it will also have great rotations I'm sure. I like this expansion.

This is actually a great one, and it's just an extension campus, not a whole new school.

Originally Posted by IDBasco

As far as DO school expansion goes, this is probably the best planned and connected one I have seen.

That was my thought. If the med students can rotate at the Cleveland Clinic, this actually sounds like a decent school. One of the biggest problems with the new schools is the way that a lot of them seem to put no thought into providing quality clinical rotations at decent teaching hospitals.
Of course, there's still the issue of residency slots....but I don't know if Cleveland Clinic might be able to actually add spots

i posted about this yesterday
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...2#post12645952

ohio university will have have extension med school campuses in athens, columbus, and cleveland

Originally Posted by E Hartman DO

it's going to be affliated with Cleveland Clinic so it will also have great rotations I'm sure. I like this expansion.

The affiliation is with a satellite facility of CC, not the main campus, so I'm not convinced that there is tremendous potential for OU students establish turf at the main campus of CCF @ Euclid where all the 'big medicine' is happening. I'd be curious to see what potential or promise there is in the way of residency agreements for graduates of the new school, at the main hospital; my intuition tells me not much though, since CC is arguably one of the most competitive hospitals in the country to secure a residency or fellowship

Originally Posted by peppy

That was my thought. If the med students can rotate at the Cleveland Clinic, this actually sounds like a decent school. One of the biggest problems with the new schools is the way that a lot of them seem to put no thought into providing quality clinical rotations at decent teaching hospitals.
Of course, there's still the issue of residency slots....but I don't know if Cleveland Clinic might be able to actually add spots

CCF doesn't NEED to add spots. Half their total slots go to FMGs anyway. About time they start taking more AMGs.

Originally Posted by NonTraditional3

The affiliation is with a satellite facility of CC, not the main campus, so I'm not convinced that there is tremendous potential for OU students establish turf at the main campus of CCF @ Euclid where all the 'big medicine' is happening. I'd be curious to see what potential or promise there is in the way of residency agreements for graduates of the new school, at the main hospital; my intuition tells me not much though, since CC is arguably one of the most competitive hospitals in the country to secure a residency or fellowship

This is correct. I knew about this for a while since I am from the area. CC has a bunch of hospitals with the CC association. The one that OU is going to be next to is South Pointe Hospital, not the main CC campus. It is a hospital that already takes almost all OUCOM and LECOM students, so I don't think there are any added benefits to doing this besides taking up more residency spots that are already lacking. I have not been happy about this for a while.

Originally Posted by Doctor4Life1769

CCF doesn't NEED to add spots. Half their total slots go to FMGs anyway. About time they start taking more AMGs.

Why do you think CCF is so world-renouned? It has an international reputation that precedes it precisely because it draws talents from every corner of the planet. There are few hospitals in the country that are not met with criticism for this kind of hiring; CCF is one of those few. Mayo, New York Presbyterian, and MGH accompany CCF.

In any case, I think Case and CCLCM students would get priority over OU students when it came to honoring affiliate school graduates for residency at CCF.

Originally Posted by NonTraditional3

Why do you think CCF is so world-renouned? It has an international reputation that precedes it precisely because it draws talents from every corner of the planet. There are few hospitals in the country that are not met with criticism for this kind of hiring; CCF is one of those few. Mayo, New York Presbyterian, and MGH accompany CCF.

In any case, I think Case and CCLCM students would get priority over OU students when it came to honoring affiliate school graduates for residency at CCF.

OU students won't be competing for main campus CC spots anyways. Like I said above, the new school is going to associated with a CC branch/associated hospital that already takes almost all OUCOM students.

Originally Posted by frankyazz

OU students won't be competing for main campus CC spots anyways. Like I said above, the new school is going to associated with a CC branch/associated hospital that already takes almost all OUCOM students.

Yeah, had already started writing when you posted though - didn't see till after I posted

CCF is pretty DO friendly in most specialties and because of the CCF affiliation it is very easy to rotate there in almost any specialty for OU. I think it is ok news, but it worries me a little because they haven't even opened their Columbus campus yet. We are definitely one of the best schools for providing rotations and residencies (we have alot of DMU, KCOM, LECOM students who spend all of their 3rd years in our hospitals.... and they are regularly considered some of "the best" DO schools.) Time will tell, but they sure seem to be increasing quickly.

Also many of the residencies at South Pointe do regular rotations at CCF main campus. I would be surprised if they added much at the satellite CCF campus, it isn't a really big place and they already have a decent number of programs.

Originally Posted by med etudiant

Thanks to DO schools popping up like McDonalds we will nearing the end of medicine as we know it.

Has anyone done research on this..because its getting kind of ridiculous.


http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/communica...HCOM/index.htm

Isn't Cleveland Clinic one of the best? I don't really see an issue with this. But I am not too well informed, just heard that Cleveland Clinic is legit

Why are we complaining? If DO schools were not opening new schools and adding more spots, then many of us would never become doctors. I, personally would not be going to medical school if not for seats at schools that did not exist when I graduated college in 2006 (I got into LMU-DCOM and PCOM-GA).

I understand that there will be a future bottleneck when it comes time for competition for residency spots. However, this is a non-issue in comparison to the immensity of need in the entire country for primary and specialty care physicians. We will all get jobs.

You've gotta trust that demand will meet supply and vice versa. Or, if you prefer religion to economics, "don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself"

Even better, if you prefer the natural sciences, consider: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...hysicians.aspx. We are all on the upward slope of an s-curve! I agree there is an upper threshold somewhere, but we've certainly got some room to grow.

i see nothing wrong with the announcement. it's good for ohio.

Originally Posted by rachelg

Why are we complaining? If DO schools were not opening new schools and adding more spots, then many of us would never become doctors. I, personally would not be going to medical school if not for seats at schools that did not exist when I graduated college in 2006 (I got into LMU-DCOM and PCOM-GA).

I understand that there will be a future bottleneck when it comes time for competition for residency spots. However, this is a non-issue in comparison to the immensity of need in the entire country for primary and specialty care physicians. We will all get jobs.

You've gotta trust that demand will meet supply and vice versa. Or, if you prefer religion to economics, "don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself"

Even better, if you prefer the natural sciences, consider: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...hysicians.aspx. We are all on the upward slope of an s-curve! I agree there is an upper threshold somewhere, but we've certainly got some room to grow.

Would you feel this way if you did not match into something you wanted, or did not match into anything at all due to lack of residency spots? I know I would be extremely disappointed. I believe more residency spots need to be available before schools can start opening up. More schools without accommodating available residencies does not lead to more physicians, it leads to more research years/transitional years.

Originally Posted by frankyazz

Would you feel this way if you did not match into something you wanted, or did not match into anything at all due to lack of residency spots? I know I would be extremely disappointed. I believe more residency spots need to be available before schools can start opening up. More schools without accommodating available residencies does not lead to more physicians, it leads to more research years/transitional years.

I genuinely would like to see as many people as possible start and finish medical school, and I have every confidence that you, me and every other US medical school student who can pass boards will become a working doctor.

I think we both agree that future residency spots are necessary. My point is to tell you that there will be more residency spots because an increase is bound to happen. There were enough spots in 1990... in 1995... in 2000...in 2005... in 2010. And the money to pay for training all those new doctors: Well, baby boomers aren't getting any younger.

Having talked very seriously with the folks at the new Marion COM in Indy, they are very well connected into 3rd/4th year education and so I wouldn't worry about them at all.

Originally Posted by med etudiant

Thanks to DO schools popping up like McDonalds we will nearing the end of medicine as we know it.

Has anyone done research on this..because its getting kind of ridiculous.


http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/communica...HCOM/index.htm

This extension campus needs to be applauded and praised (because of how well-planned & well-affiliated it is). Perhaps other schools can learn a thing or two about how to expand from this example.

Originally Posted by FutureDoctorrrr

This extension campus needs to be applauded and praised (because of how well-planned & well-affiliated it is). Perhaps other schools can learn a thing or two about how to expand from this example.

no kidding. marian is doing it the right way.

Originally Posted by oms2

no kidding. marian is doing it the right way.

With all the hoopla about DO schools expanding like crazy I took a look at how many new MD schools are in the pipeline.

There are currently 17 new MD schools in the pipeline (as per LCME website) with 134 current (that 134 is from Wikipedia...I wasn't going to hand count them all). That's a 13% increase in MD schools.

Those numbers assume every school in the pipeline will gain accreditation because that makes the numbers easier

Not trying to blow anyone's mind or really make a statement but is the "DO expansion" maybe just a "medical school expansion?"

Originally Posted by Wolverines83

Not trying to blow anyone's mind or really make a statement but is the "DO expansion" maybe just a "medical school expansion?"

true.
btw most of the new md schools are also in response to the pc shortage, so they'll be geared toward producing pc docs or that's what they tell the politicians anyway

The University of CO is trying to put a new campus in Colorado Springs, it's happening everywhere...

Originally Posted by rachelg

I understand that there will be a future bottleneck when it comes time for competition for residency spots. However, this is a non-issue in comparison to the immensity of need in the entire country for primary and specialty care physicians. We will all get jobs.

You've gotta trust that demand will meet supply and vice versa. Or, if you prefer religion to economics, "don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself"

This is a perpetuated myth. The need is not in the "entire country." Most of the larger cities and their suburbs (i.e. the desirable locations), which happen to make up a larger percentage of the population, do not have a shortage... at least not any that call for a boom in new schools or massive increases in GME funding. These markets are actually quite competitive and approaching saturation. And let's face it, most grads want to train, work, and live in (or close to) these better locations.

Underserved areas are often in under-desirable areas- rural. There is most definitely a need for competent physicians in these locations. But this is not a coast-to-coast problem though.

GME funding will not change significantly anytime soon either. Washington is a mess and I'd bet the farm that any drastic increase will not pass in the near future. That said, it's irresponsible to continually open new seats without new residency spots. As long as the AOA is opening another residency spot with each new medical school seat that COCA approves, then it's A-OK. If not, it's simply a money-making venture hidden behind the "doctor shortage" cloak designed to fool the gullible bleeding hearts.

Do we need more docs? Yes. But is creating a "bottleneck" in the name of (regional) PCP shortages and doing so in haste necessary or even logical? And no one should just "trust that supply will meet demand." Go tell that to the law school grads turned barista.

Thank you. 100% correct. I gave up trying to explain why this whole thing is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Dharma

This is a perpetuated myth. The need is not in the "entire country." Most of the larger cities and their suburbs (i.e. the desirable locations), which happen to make up a larger percentage of the population, do not have a shortage... at least not any that call for a boom in new schools or massive increases in GME funding. These markets are actually quite competitive and approaching saturation. And let's face it, most grads want to train, work, and live in (or close to) these better locations.

Underserved areas are often in under-desirable areas- rural. There is most definitely a need for competent physicians in these locations. But this is not a coast-to-coast problem though.

GME funding will not change significantly anytime soon either. Washington is a mess and I'd bet the farm that any drastic increase will not pass in the near future. That said, it's irresponsible to continually open new seats without new residency spots. As long as the AOA is opening another residency spot with each new medical school seat that COCA approves, then it's A-OK. If not, it's simply a money-making venture hidden behind the "doctor shortage" cloak designed to fool the gullible bleeding hearts.

Do we need more docs? Yes. But is creating a "bottleneck" in the name of (regional) PCP shortages and doing so in haste necessary or even logical? And no one should just "trust that supply will meet demand." Go tell that to the law school grads turned barista.

All of this is true. Good perspective that so many ignore.

Sounds like I should be buying stock in medical schools... 5 years from now I'll be a millionaire. Ugh.

Residency spots are still stagnant for the most part. Competition for even less competitive specialties in competitive locations will be insane 5 years from now.