How do you feel about someone using Adderall to score high on the MCAT?

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Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.

Adderall specifically has some nasty ones and is not indicated for use in adults.

Originally Posted by Myuu

Adderall specifically has some nasty ones and is not indicated for use in adults.

Oh jeez. gosh ADHD is so debilitating......

How come I know a couple adults who take it? Is the concern that it will be abused?

Originally Posted by Myuu

Adderall specifically has some nasty ones and is not indicated for use in adults.

UpToDate

Dosing: Adult Note: Use lowest effective individualized dose; administer first dose as soon as awake; use intervals of 4-6 hours between additional doses.
ADHD: Oral:

Adderall®: Initial: 5 mg once or twice daily; increase daily dose in 5 mg increments at weekly intervals until optimal response is obtained; usual maximum dose: 40 mg/day given in 1-3 divided doses per day.

Adderall XR®: Initial: 20 mg once daily in the morning; higher doses (up to 60 mg once daily) have been evaluated; however, there is not adequate evidence that higher doses afforded additional benefit

Narcolepsy: Adderall®: Oral: Initial: 10 mg/day; increase daily dose in 10 mg increments at weekly intervals until optimal response is obtained; maximum dose: 60 mg/day given in 1-3 divided doses per day with intervals of 4-6 hours between doses

Warnings/Precautions
Boxed warnings:

• Abuse potential: See “Disease-related concerns” below.

• Cardiovascular events: See “Concerns related to adverse effects” below.

Concerns related to adverse effects:

• Cardiovascular events: [U.S. Boxed Warning]: Use has been associated with serious cardiovascular events including sudden death in patients with pre-existing structural cardiac abnormalities or other serious heart problems (sudden death in children and adolescents; sudden death, stroke and MI in adults). These products should be avoided in the patients with known serious structural cardiac abnormalities, cardiomyopathy, serious heart rhythm abnormalities, or other serious cardiac problems that could increase the risk of sudden death that these conditions alone carry. Patients should be carefully evaluated for cardiac disease prior to initiation of therapy.

• CNS effects: Amphetamines may impair the ability to engage in potentially hazardous activities.

• Visual disturbance: Difficulty in accommodation and blurred vision has been reported with the use of stimulants.

Disease-related concerns:

• Abuse potential: [U.S. Boxed Warning]: Potential for drug dependency exists; prolonged use may lead to drug dependency. Use is contraindicated in patients with history of ethanol or drug abuse. Prescriptions should be written for the smallest quantity consistent with good patient care to minimize possibility of overdose.

• Hypertension: Use with caution in patients with hypertension and other cardiovascular conditions that might be exacerbated by increases in blood pressure or heart rate. Use is contraindicated in patients with moderate-to-severe hypertension.

• Psychiatric disorders: Use with caution in patients with pre-existing psychosis or bipolar disorder (may induce mixed/manic episode). May exacerbate symptoms of behavior and thought disorder in psychotic patients; new onset psychosis or mania may occur with stimulant use; observe for symptoms of aggression and/or hostility.

• Seizure disorder: Use with caution in patients with a history of seizure disorder; may lower seizure threshold leading to new onset or breakthrough seizure activity.

• Tourette's syndrome: Use with caution in patients with Tourette's syndrome; stimulants may unmask tics.

Special populations:

• Elderly: Use caution in this age group due to CNS stimulant adverse effects.

• Pediatrics: Safety and efficacy have not been established in children <3 years of age. Appetite suppression may occur; monitor weight during therapy, particularly in children. Use of stimulants has been associated with suppression of growth; monitor growth rate during treatment.

Other warnings/precautions:

• Discontinuation of therapy: Abrupt discontinuation following high doses or for prolonged periods may result in symptoms for withdrawal

the only thing im seeing is "Don't dose a heart patient with a huge stimulant, oh, and don't do drugs"

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

UpToDate




the only thing im seeing is "Don't dose a heart patient with a huge stimulant, oh, and don't do drugs"

Oh, hmm. If anything, it's not the first choice therapy, or at least that's what I understood during my psych rotation. But, uh, yeah, don't give a huge amount of stimulant to somebody with heart problems (or seizures, tourettes, hypertension, pre-existing psychiatric issues...) and don't do drugs.

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.

Originally Posted by Thego2guy

From my "Epocrates" app on my phone:

Serious Reactions:
dependency, abuse
withdrawal if abrupt D/C (long-term use)
depression
psychosis
mania
aggressive behavior
Tourette syndrome
HTN, severe
MI
Stroke
Sudden Death (my favorite -_-)
cardiomyopathy (long-term use)
seizures
growth suppression (long-term use)
hypersensitivity rxn
anaphylaxis
angioedema
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
toxic epidermal necrolysis

Common Reactions
anorexia
insomnia
abdominal pain
headache
emotional lability
weight loss
nervousness
dry mouth
nausea/vomiting
asthenia
diarrhea
dyspepsia
dizziness
palpitations
elevated BP
tachycardia
tremor
dyskinesia
constipation
libido changes
impotence
visual disturbances
motor/phonic tic exacerbation

I think most people never even look at adverse reactions, and never consider how truly common they are. Everyone always focuses on the positive, but never considers the risks.

Doesn't anyone read the front page anymore?

Originally Posted by Thego2guy

Doesn't anyone read the front page anymore?

The common ones are usually pretty unsettling. When you first start out, the inexplicable anxiety can be really scary.


Edit: please note that while epocrates does have a nice list of things that can happen, up2date generally gives a better picture of how common these things are. Up2Date is like a peer-reviewed wikipedia for doctors. You'll love it.

Originally Posted by Tatiana3325

Hopefully this does not come across as rude but: What serious side effects do you need to watch out for, and if you spot them what are you supposed to do in response? If you are taking your medication as prescribed everyday, wouldn't you have these serious side effects everyday?

Granted, I don't take adderall and don't have ADHD (as far as I know- ha), but your post contradicts what I've heard and seen in the few people I know who have ADHD. They take their adderall or concerta every day. They don't pick and choose when they take it. I mean, they have ADHD every day so they need it everyday. They also don't have serious side effects that they worry about looking for.

No I mean that I think that people who don't have ADHD have a choice to make and if they do take it they shouldn't be taking it everyday because they aren't under the direction of a doctor and need to be careful. People who do have ADHD and are prescribed it should be taking it everyday, i take mine every day except like Sundays sometimes or if I'm on a break from school. My doctor actually suggested that i don't take it if i don't have studying to do (which happens very rarely) so i can have a break from it. I hope it makes sense.

And it makes me not eat so if I'm not careful and manage my time it will be 9pm and I will feel like I'm going to puke and realize i haven't eaten all day. Sometimes it can actually make me not want to eat, or dislike eating even. If I take it after 11 am it will most likely make me not sleep, every day i take it my resting heart rate is around 120 but bp is perfect apparently so its okay but my heart feels like a butterfly a lot, I have dry mouth all the time so I always have to take a water Bottle with me everywhere i go. If i don't have one with me i freak out and cant function because I'm so thirsty all the time and thats all i can focus on. if I take it and not take care of myself and sleep properly it starts to effect my mood, i have to pee all the darn time, etc. they're not necessarily "serious" side effects but they're things that I have talked with my doctor about and have to be aware of so I can manage them. My best friend has ADHD and takes XR as well and he has all the same side effects so I know I'm not the only one.

Originally Posted by Myuu

The common ones are usually pretty unsettling. When you first start out, the inexplicable anxiety can be really scary.


Edit: please note that while epocrates does have a nice list of things that can happen, up2date generally gives a better picture of how common these things are.

about the edit (I did think that the info did suffice considering I was the first to address the issue directly on this thread, but you're right, that one is more useful in our elaborated discussion)

As for the anxiety, I can definitely relate (see my original post for more unfortunate details), anxiety is terrible...horrible...and one of the most uncontrollable things. Mini panic attacks in a claustrophobic space (such as on the train,underground, here in nyc) coupled with crazy GI cramping, and the feeling of "impending doom" is the nice little icing on the cake. I would NOT take any meds without a prescription that can in some way exacerbate that anxiety.

-Typed on my phone-

Well, now, this is interesting:

Originally Posted by u2d

Safety Review of Medications for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) December 2011
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued updated information regarding the safety of medications for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adults. The communication was prompted by the results of two epidemiologic studies which failed to show an increased risk of serious cardiovascular events, including myocardial infarction (MI), sudden cardiac death (SCD), and stroke, in adults who received certain medications for ADHD.

The retrospective, population-based cohort studies involved 443,198 adults (aged 25-64 years), of which 150,359 received certain ADHD medications and were matched to 292,839 nonusers (1 user to 2 nonusers). Exposure was based on electronic pharmacy records of filled prescriptions at various study sites. Current ADHD use was a median of 0.33 years and follow-up was a median of 1.3 years per person. The results found no evidence of an increased risk of MI, SCD, or stroke associated with the use of ADHD medications. Specifically, the adjusted rate ratio (RR) of serious cardiovascular events for current use compared with nonuse was 0.83 (95% CI: 0.72-0.96) (Habel, 2011).

Previously, in November 2011, the FDA communicated safety information following results of a study in children and young adults exposed to certain ADHD medications which also failed to show an association of adverse cardiovascular events (SCD, MI, and stroke) and ADHD use in that population. That retrospective cohort study included >1 million patients (aged 2-24 years) and >2 million person-years of follow-up. When compared to patients who did not receive ADHD medications, neither current (adjusted hazard ratio: 0.75; 95% CI: 0.31-1.85) or former (adjusted hazard ratio: 1.03; 95% CI: 0.57-1.89) users of ADHD medications experienced an increased rate of serious cardiovascular events (Cooper, 2011).

ADHD medications involved in these safety reviews were atomoxetine, dexmethylphenidate, dextroamphetamine, dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, lisdexamfetamine, methamphetamine, methylphenidate, and pemoline (no longer marketed).

Product labeling should continue to be followed. In general, stimulant medications and atomoxetine should not be used in patients with serious heart problems or in patients who should avoid increased blood pressure or heart rate; monitor patients for blood pressure or heart rate changes.

For more information, please refer to the following websites:

December, 2011 (adult information): http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm279858.htm

November, 2011 (children and young adult information): http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm277770.htm

Didn't read this entire thread.

For those who are OK with taking Adderall to study, if a patient asks you to prescribe him Adderall for the sole purpose of studying for an exam, would you do it?

I had a friend who stressed about exams. He heard of Adderall for studying and was seriously considering it. I told him if he pursued that line of thought, he should never speak to me again. He didn't take any drugs, studied hard and did very well in class. He was accepted at an ivy league med school. I'm damn proud of him.

Originally Posted by ghostman

Didn't read this entire thread.

For those who are OK with taking Adderall to study, if a patient asks you to prescribe him Adderall for the sole purpose of studying for an exam, would you do it?

I had a friend who stressed about exams. He heard of Adderall for studying and was seriously considering it. I told him if he pursued that line of thought, he should never speak to me again. He didn't take any drugs, studied hard and did very well in class. He was accepted at an ivy league med school. I'm damn proud of him.

I think it's a little excessive to not be friends with someone because of that.. People do stupid stuff when they're stressed.

Originally Posted by ghostman

Didn't read this entire thread.

For those who are OK with taking Adderall to study, if a patient asks you to prescribe him Adderall for the sole purpose of studying for an exam, would you do it?

I had a friend who stressed about exams. He heard of Adderall for studying and was seriously considering it. I told him if he pursued that line of thought, he should never speak to me again. He didn't take any drugs, studied hard and did very well in class. He was accepted at an ivy league med school. I'm damn proud of him.

Don't you sound like a barrel of fun.

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

According to the AAMC:

Even if you don't buy that "illegal drugs" means anything controlled, I think the AAMC's position on this is implicit.

I think illegal drugs means illegal drugs and adderall doesn't fall into that category.

Originally Posted by ghostman

Didn't read this entire thread.

For those who are OK with taking Adderall to study, if a patient asks you to prescribe him Adderall for the sole purpose of studying for an exam, would you do it?

I had a friend who stressed about exams. He heard of Adderall for studying and was seriously considering it. I told him if he pursued that line of thought, he should never speak to me again. He didn't take any drugs, studied hard and did very well in class. He was accepted at an ivy league med school. I'm damn proud of him.

All it took was seven sentences and a poorly constructed run-on to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I can count the number of friends you have had since high school on one hand.

Originally Posted by BA11

I think illegal drugs means illegal drugs and adderall doesn't fall into that category.

Adderall is a controlled substance.

Originally Posted by Myuu

Adderall is a controlled substance.

So is Nasonex but I hardly think the AAMC is warning against those rogue sinus sufferers unwilling to get their own prescription.

All illegal substances are controlled but not all controlled substances are illegal. Even in the context of illegally using without a prescription, all one has to do is look up the penalty for unauthorized possession of prescription dugs versus possession of illegal narcotics to see the obvious legal difference. The exception to this discussion being alcohol which is legal but controlled, however it is EXPLICITLY singled out by the AAMC.

What about all the pre-meds using Xanax or Valium to relax before a test? Are we going to pretend like that is a serious breach of the unwritten moral contract as well?

Originally Posted by BA11

So is Nasonex but I hardly think the AAMC is warning against those rogue sinus sufferers unwilling to get their own prescription.

All illegal substances are controlled but not all controlled substances are illegal. Even in the context of illegally using without a prescription, all one has to do is look up the penalty for unauthorized possession of prescription dugs versus possession of illegal narcotics to see the obvious legal difference. The exception to this discussion being alcohol which is legal but controlled, however it is EXPLICITLY singled out by the AAMC.

Possession of a controlled substance without a prescription is illegal. The penalties differ, certainly.

Originally Posted by Myuu

Possession of a controlled substance without a prescription is illegal. The penalties differ, certainly.

A fact which I clearly acknowledged in my previous post. That being said, the phrase "alcohol and illegal drugs" doesn't cause most rational people to think of Adderall or Xanax. The warning is very clearly establishing that substances which severely alter brain function (i.e. ones that give the user some sort of tangible high) are the ones in question. Sure, prescription narcotics can be considered a part of that, but Adderall? Come on, no need to be dense for the purposes of technicality.

Would the a proctor kick you out of a test if you openly admitted to illegally using adderall? I would wager that many would and many would not (especially given the unequal standards that are often reported depending on what testing center you happen to be in), but does the AAMC actually care? I doubt the writers of the MCAT lose much sleep over it.

Originally Posted by BA11

A fact which I clearly acknowledged in my previous post. That being said, the phrase "alcohol and illegal drugs" doesn't cause most rational people to think of Adderall or Xanax. The warning is very clearly establishing that substances which severely alter brain function (i.e. ones that give the user some sort of tangible high) are the ones in question. Sure, prescription narcotics can be considered a part of that, but Adderall? Come on, no need to be dense for the purposes of technicality.

Would the a proctor kick you out of a test if you openly admitted to illegally using adderall? I would wager that many would and many would not (especially given the unequal standards that are often reported depending on what testing center you happen to be in), but does the AAMC actually care? I doubt the writers of the MCAT lose much sleep over it.

Adderall is an amphetamine with great potential for abuse. You would know this if you were a medical student.

Originally Posted by ghostman

Didn't read this entire thread.

For those who are OK with taking Adderall to study, if a patient asks you to prescribe him Adderall for the sole purpose of studying for an exam, would you do it?

I had a friend who stressed about exams. He heard of Adderall for studying and was seriously considering it. I told him if he pursued that line of thought, he should never speak to me again. He didn't take any drugs, studied hard and did very well in class. He was accepted at an ivy league med school. I'm damn proud of him.

Most of the time, all it takes for a prescription for a healthy individual is telling your doctor that you have exams and are having trouble focusing, are stressed, etc.

These situations are not black and white, claiming to disown your friend because he was contemplating a drug which would help him focus during an episode of his life when he was having trouble focusing is such an unnecessary, unwarranted reaction. You are an aspiring physician?

Originally Posted by Myuu

Adderall is an amphetamine with great potential for abuse. You would know this if you were a medical student.

If you're going to make me sit here and waste time arguing against this sort of intellectual dishonesty then I have no reason to continue this discussion. I'm not going to humor you and break down the incredibly vast differences between the physiological effects of adderall versus your standard illegal amphetamine products. Even in high doses, it produces nowhere near the mind-altering state of the kinds of substances that come to mind when those of us without a hard on for mindless debate read that AAMC statement.

Originally Posted by BA11

If you're going to make me sit here and waste time arguing against this sort of intellectual dishonesty then I have no reason to continue this discussion. I'm not going to humor you and break down the incredibly vast differences between the physiological effects of adderall versus your standard illegal amphetamine products. Even in high doses, it produces nowhere near the mind-altering state of the kinds of substances that come to mind when those of us without a hard on for mindless debate read that AAMC statement.

If you really want I don't mind emailing the AAMC and asking if they would consider illegal use of prescription drugs during the exam cheating.

Originally Posted by gettheleadout

If you really want I don't mind emailing the AAMC and asking if they would consider illegal use of prescription drugs during the exam cheating.

Considering they arent in the business of advocating such activities I have little doubt as to what their official answer would be. I'm simply saying that ther policy isnt driven by adderall use and that people using it doesnt bother me nor is it on the level of other drug use.

As I asked earlier, how many people do you think have "illegally" popped anti-anxiety meds prior to taking a test? For someone with test anxiety, that is far more helpful than adderall.

Originally Posted by davidb25

Most of the time, all it takes for a prescription for a healthy individual is telling your doctor that you have exams and are having trouble focusing, are stressed, etc.

These situations are not black and white, claiming to disown your friend because he was contemplating a drug which would help him focus during an episode of his life when he was having trouble focusing is such an unnecessary, unwarranted reaction. You are an aspiring physician?

You make a good point, but you construct it out of evidence you don't have. Fair enough, as I didn't pad my comment with any background. Just be careful with your conclusions. Oh, and put away any snide remarks; college kids are in no position to judge others on what's appropriate for aspiring physicians.

I completely agree that situations are not black and white. And there may be valid reasons for the off-label use of Adderall. But in my friend's case, it was not a valid reason. My friend was not in "an episode of his life when he was having trouble focusing," he did not have ADHD, he did not have sleep disorders and it was not chronic. He was stressed about a single, upcoming exam on a subject matter that he had trouble grasping. That is NOT the appropriate use of the drug and no sensible physician would prescribe it for that purpose. He knew it too.

I meant what I said to my friend. Sure, it's harsh. But it's precisely because he was my good friend that I felt I had to say it. It was what he needed to hear. Afterward, he dropped the idea of Adderall, we studied together and I tutored the parts where he had difficulty. The exam went just fine. He just needed to realize he could grasp the concepts, rather than depend on a pill that had the potential for significant side effects.

And isn't that the true issue with Adderall? The fact of the matter is that people who take it for studying likely procured it illegally, are self-dosing, are not monitored and may develop a dependence on a drug that was not meant for high-dose, long-term consumption.

Originally Posted by Ashley1989

No I mean that I think that people who don't have ADHD have a choice to make and if they do take it they shouldn't be taking it everyday because they aren't under the direction of a doctor and need to be careful. People who do have ADHD and are prescribed it should be taking it everyday, i take mine every day except like Sundays sometimes or if I'm on a break from school. My doctor actually suggested that i don't take it if i don't have studying to do (which happens very rarely) so i can have a break from it. I hope it makes sense.

And it makes me not eat so if I'm not careful and manage my time it will be 9pm and I will feel like I'm going to puke and realize i haven't eaten all day. Sometimes it can actually make me not want to eat, or dislike eating even. If I take it after 11 am it will most likely make me not sleep, every day i take it my resting heart rate is around 120 but bp is perfect apparently so its okay but my heart feels like a butterfly a lot, I have dry mouth all the time so I always have to take a water Bottle with me everywhere i go. If i don't have one with me i freak out and cant function because I'm so thirsty all the time and thats all i can focus on. if I take it and not take care of myself and sleep properly it starts to effect my mood, i have to pee all the darn time, etc. they're not necessarily "serious" side effects but they're things that I have talked with my doctor about and have to be aware of so I can manage them. My best friend has ADHD and takes XR as well and he has all the same side effects so I know I'm not the only one.

Yeah, these are pretty much exactly the same side effects I get when I take Adderall. Food tastes like cardboard, I don't want to eat. I pee all the time, my heart is racing, I can't sleep well at all, and I'm thirsty. Usually by the end of a week taking Adderall I feel drained. I get sort of "high" during the first hour or two after taking it and feel miserable by the end of the day, usually because I haven't eaten. I've fainted multiple times due to not eating on Adderall.

I started taking ritalin when I was 6, the dosage increased as it slowly stopped working as well. Then I switched adderall XR for middle school.

As someone who has taken stimulant drugs pretty much all of my life, they kinda suck. I wish I didn't have to take them and I feel like being on ritalin long-term from such a young age permanently messed up my brain chemistry.

With all of that said, it definitely does help me focus.

I am not reading all of the messages, don't care to do that. This one is easy for me. If he has a prescription due to a medical disorder then it is fine because essentially the adderall just makes his brain perform normal. If he does not have a medical issue and he is just taking it as an illegal drug then I do have a problem with it because to someone without ADD/ADHD adderall acts like speed. Although it could very well cause some people to hyperfocus and they would not finish in time. If he does have ADD/ADHD then it just makes him "normal" so I have no issue with that.

Originally Posted by STAT EKG

Yeah, these are pretty much exactly the same side effects I get when I take Adderall. Food tastes like cardboard, I don't want to eat. I pee all the time, my heart is racing, I can't sleep well at all, and I'm thirsty. Usually by the end of a week taking Adderall I feel drained. I get sort of "high" during the first hour or two after taking it and feel miserable by the end of the day, usually because I haven't eaten. I've fainted multiple times due to not eating on Adderall.

I started taking ritalin when I was 6, the dosage increased as it slowly stopped working as well. Then I switched adderall XR for middle school.

As someone who has taken stimulant drugs pretty much all of my life, they kinda suck. I wish I didn't have to take them and I feel like being on ritalin long-term from such a young age permanently messed up my brain chemistry.

With all of that said, it definitely does help me focus.

I have to be honest with you. It does not sound like adderall is the best prescription for you. I have ADD/ADHD myself and I have done the route of no medication, adderall and other common prescriptions. If you are fainting, your heart is racing all day, you can't eat or sleep and all of those other side effects seen in stimulants then it seems to be effecting you harshly. You might want to consider a lower dosage or being transitioned to something else. I take adderall, I have for years. I can go to sleep on adderal if I want, I eat healthy meals while on it, I do not feel "racy" or "speedy" at all. As an example of what I mean, I have had a stuttering issue since I was really young that stems from me talking super fast and being jittery. When I take adderall, all of that goes away and I feel more calm, I demonstrate more patience and I don't stutter, I don't tap my nails annoyingly on the desk anymore, I don't chew my pencils to dust or chew my nails down. Adderal calms me down and I can concentrate without jumping off the walls and trying to do 20 things at once. It sounds like adderal makes you jump off the walls and speeds you up. You may want to get your blood pressure checked as well because the fainting issue is sometimes related to a side effect on blood pressure levels. Do you get headaches? If the answer is yes, go talk to your doctor about all of these issues and be honest! I don't think you are honest with the doctor because if he knew about the fainting etc he/she would be concerned.

Originally Posted by MuAgonist

I just don't like it when people base reasoning off of "because it's illegal", like the whole immigration thing. Laws are man made, man is flawed, therefore laws are flawed, and are subject to change all the time. Besides being illegal, what is the problem? That's what I'm trying to get at.

I know the point you were trying to make, I just think it's silly to compare the atrocity of abducting men and women from their homeland, putting them in chains, and bringing them to a foreign land to be sold like animals so that they and their future offspring could be forced to be free labor to enrich another person with the fact that people can't legally use recreational drugs.

Laws can certainly be flawed, but this isn't a battle worth fighting for someone who is serious about being a professional.

The problem is that it is illegal.

It won't help that much. Mcat is all about logical/conceptual thinking and reasoning. A drug like that will only help you on a night of cram session.

I just want to call everyone's attention to the following advertisement recently spotted on studentdoctors.net



Other than the sweet student discounts on GM vehicles, what's remarkable about this ad is its dubious ethical nature and shameless disregard for AAMC rules. The drug fiends have penetrated our e-community. Hide your kids hide your wife.

Originally Posted by Old Grunt

Laws can certainly be flawed, but this isn't a battle worth fighting for someone who is serious about being a professional.

The problem is that it is illegal.

All kidding aside, this is probably the best advice in the whole thread. Well said.

Originally Posted by freshbagels

This is incorrect. Adderall in the non-ADHD brain does not improve mental performance beyond staving off fatigue (analogously to caffeine).

Bull****.

Originally Posted by PreMedOrDead

wtf do you think a performing enhancing drug is? It increases a performance, and it's a drug. I'm pretty sure that qualifies it as a performance enhancing drug.

Next up, Steroids aren't PED's because they make your balls smaller.

As for the MCAT, it's so easy Rainman could do it

Again, show me data that even remotely supports the claim that adderall increases test scores and/or concentration in individuals without ADD and I will concede that it is a performance enhancing drug. Until that point, it's just speculation.

If the AAMC voided someone's MCAT score for cheating because they took ADD meds without having a prescription for them, that person could easily lawyer up and get the decision overturned. Taking adderall is not cheating because there are no proven, or even supported, effects of adderall in people without ADD. If the AAMC voided someone's MCAT score for violating policy, then that's another story.

It's illegal, I've never used it, but I really don't worry about things like this. It's not like it makes you smarter.

Originally Posted by Myuu

Adderall is an amphetamine with great potential for abuse. You would know this if you were a medical student.

baZINGA!

Originally Posted by AestheticGod

Bull****.

A well-reasoned and thoughtful response, thank you.

Originally Posted by AestheticGod

Bull****.

Serious bull****

Who knew those poor little kids with ADHD just needed caffeine? Someone get these kids a cup of coffee!

Originally Posted by BlueLabel

All kidding aside, this is probably the best advice in the whole thread. Well said.

Thanks. A side effect of being an old bastard is a ruthless sense of pragmatism.

Originally Posted by Old Grunt

Serious bull****

Who knew those poor little kids with ADHD just needed caffeine? Someone get these kids a cup of coffee!

You're not parsing my statement correctly.

Originally Posted by rhodyrhody

Addherall is a stimulant like caffeine. Stimulants have not yet been put into correlation with test scores, but they keep you alert and focused. I know you like evidence based science, but this is a no-brainer, stimulating the nervous system stimulates your rate of thinking and of course the quality of your thinking (without being tired) hence why people drink coffee in the morning-when they are tired and have decreased mental function. Do you really need to see a double blind, placebo controlled experiment to make a conclusion so simple as this?

That's not how or why Adderall works w/r/t ADHD. Sorry that you're so uncomfortable with evidence-based medicine.

Originally Posted by rhodyrhody

Addherall is a stimulant like caffeine. Stimulants have not yet been put into correlation with test scores, but they keep you alert and focused. I know you like evidence based science, but this is a no-brainer, stimulating the nervous system stimulates your rate of thinking and of course the quality of your thinking (without being tired) hence why people drink coffee in the morning-when they are tired and have decreased mental function. Do you really need to see a double blind, placebo controlled experiment to make a conclusion so simple as this?

Actually I prefer science that has no basis in evidence. Give me the evidence-free argument, please.

Originally Posted by freshbagels

That's not how or why Adderall works w/r/t ADHD. Sorry that you're so uncomfortable with evidence-based medicine.

My mistake. Please cite the peer reviewed article that shows that adderall works like caffeine in the "non-ADHD mind".

This should be rich.

My biology teacher told the class he used to use "study drugs" in college. But of course he told us not to do it.

No lie, I've been thinking about trying to find a hookup at my school to see if it can help improve my grades. I'm scared of the consequences tho..

Originally Posted by Old Grunt

My mistake. Please cite the peer reviewed article that shows that adderall works like caffeine in the "non-ADHD mind".

This should be rich.

I'm not going to indulge your strawman, buddy. Adderall blocks dopamine/NE re-uptake, and the in ADHD brain (which is hypodopaminergic [1]), this elevates neurotransmitter levels to normal levels and allows proper focusing and concentration.

In the non-ADHD brain - which is already at normal levels of dopamine/NE - Adderall's focusing effects are highly reduced. I suspect that most of the noted "study powers" of the drug are psychosomatic. It does work as a generalized stimulant: analagously, although not identically, to caffeine. Caffeine also increases neurotransmitter levels, but it does so via antagonizing an adenosine receptor that suppresses NTs [2].

As a PGY-1 I'm sure you already know and understand this, though.

1. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...030-1/fulltext
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095008

Originally Posted by freshbagels

I'm not going to indulge your strawman, buddy. Adderall blocks dopamine/NE re-uptake, and the in ADHD brain (which is hypodopaminergic [1]), this elevates neurotransmitter levels to normal levels and allows proper focusing and concentration.

In the non-ADHD brain - which is already at normal levels of dopamine/NE - Adderall's focusing effects are highly reduced. I suspect that most of the noted "study powers" of the drug are psychosomatic. It does work as a generalized stimulant: analagously, although not identically, to caffeine. Caffeine also increases neurotransmitter levels, but it does so via antagonizing an adenosine receptor that suppresses NTs [2].

As a PGY-1 I'm sure you already know and understand this, though.

1. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...030-1/fulltext
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15095008

good analysis.

also, for higher induced levels of dopamine, people have found natural ways to achieve that already. things like bananas and ginseng teas put into your regular diet will naturally help you probably just as much. adderall won't turn you into a superhero as much as it will turn you into a dependent. just watch how dopamine levels are related in the TED discussion on masterbation and pornography. :P

Anyone who knows what they are doing knows that adderall doesn't actually make you perform better on the exam itself, but rather can be used as a study tool. You take adderall if you want to grind for days and absorb most of the Kaplan MCAT book before you take the actual exam. It is helpful for grinding/studying 12+ hours a day (I've never taken it, but this is what my friends get the most results from). FYI, a kid in one of my humanities classes took it before an essay question based midterm and filled out pages after pages of BS and got a bad grade on the exam because he didn't actually have the base knowledge, but thought he did. It doesn't make you know more than you already know, it just makes you focus well and causes side effects.

Honestly, it's your choice. The fact is, people that use Adderall to study are making a choice to break the law (whether you agree with DEA scheduling is your own business) and are taking that risk to give themselves the edge. I frankly don't see it as much different than using any number of legal stimulants (Caffeine, *racetams, nicotine, etc.) which all give you an advantage.

Personally Adderall just makes me want to blast EDM and clean for 6 hours. So I only use it when I'm hung over and don't feel like studying.