How much of an effect does being URM do for an application?

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Originally Posted by tn4596

If everything else is the same, yea sometimes i wish i was black. I would be pretty darn close to 100% guaranteed a spot in med school and i would be picked over other people whenever at basketball games. I have never seen a clean-shaven, decently dressed black man being treated any differently.

Originally Posted by tn4596

Not sure if serious.



non sequitur. I dont go out much because I want to save money and also want to go to a great school locally?

I am serious. I was once stopped pulling into my driveway.. I get at least asked for my ID 5-6 times a month randomly when I am walking..

Originally Posted by jhamaican

I agree with you 100%. I have no direct dislike for URM individuals. It is the system that I despise. If I was a URM myself, I would definitely check that box! However, I can't help it if I resent those around me who are getting special treatment when everyone is working so hard. I have never once said something in real life but if probably bleeds through subconsciously like you suggest, and I know for a fact that I am not alone.

I do think it is too bad, but I think these steps would have alleviate some of the URM hate that radiates among pre-meds and medical students.

1. Make it socioeconomic
2. Be more upfront with racial quotas in classes. This whole URM thing is like the elephant in the room.
3. make everyone on a level playing ground once medical school starts.

How the heck do you know that a "black" student who is in med school did not work as hard??????

You are simply making assumptions here to spread your paranoia about URMs in med school. Most schools probably have 1 or 2 black students if that. I think what black people have gone through in this country and the obstacles that they still face, they should get free education for the next 200 years.

Now, if you are so concerned about not being competitive then I would suggest you get off SDN and start "working hard" my friend. I am sick of white people constantly complaining on this web site. It's a shame!

I like to think that I am the epitome of an URM.

Imagine being Mexican, going to one of the worst high schools in terms of academics (and in the ghetto), not having anyone believe in you and then graduating. That was me. After high school it was like "WTF do I do now?"

In the process I think I have gone through many more life experiences than if I just had everything handed to me. I definitely learned a lot more.

Now here I am getting ready to apply next cycle with competitive stats (granted it took me a little bit longer to get here). I have more to talk about in my interviews and maybe thats what will give me an edge in terms of being an URM.

And yup, you better believe I will get my MD and come back to serve my community.

PS I'm also gay.

EDIT: this comment isn't necessarily directed towards anyone. Just my viewpoint of how much more diverse URM applicants can be which is sometimes appealing to schools.

Mexican AND gay?



I can't even deal.

If I'm asian AND gay, do the two cancel each other out?

Originally Posted by tn4596

Not sure if serious.



non sequitur. I dont go out much because I want to save money and also want to go to a great school locally?

The comment "you don't get out much" (what I was thinking as well), means that you are demonstrating a very narrow world view that smacks of an insular lifestyle.

"Getting out" is not the same as "going out" and it doesn't cost money.

Have you ever had a conversation over a meal with a fellow student who would qualify as URM?

Originally Posted by tn4596

Not sure if serious.



non sequitur. I dont go out much because I want to save money and also want to go to a great school locally?

seriously... what is with the pre-allo boards and the incessant need to use logical catch phrases whenever the opportunity [doesnt] arise[s]?

Originally Posted by HoltMD

How the heck do you know that a "black" student who is in med school did not work as hard??????

You are simply making assumptions here to spread your paranoia about URMs in med school. Most schools probably have 1 or 2 black students if that. I think what black people have gone through in this country and the obstacles that they still face, they should get free education for the next 200 years.

Now, if you are so concerned about not being competitive then I would suggest you get off SDN and start "working hard" my friend. I am sick of white people constantly complaining on this web site. It's a shame!

Originally Posted by tn4596

"Some" black people does reinforced "stereotypes" on themselves. Discrimination is unheard of. All I am saying is, if everything is the same, and my skin turns black, and I am presenting myself to the world in the same manner, noone is going to treat me differently.

lol, you can't be serious can you?

There shouldn't be any kind of difference due to skin color, it's a crude and rather absurd metric to consider. Asians aren't genetically superior or anything like that, it's that the culture promotes academic achievements in a way that others don't. Take a look at the difference between black people born in Africa that study in America and black people born in America. Their whole outlook and work ethic is completely different. I get the underserved population argument, but the reason why they're underserved is not because of the color of their skin, but because they're poor. You can say that there's a correlation and that justifies race-based considerations, but then you're just trying to target a symptom, not the cause of this injustice. The person that benefit the most is not the hood rat from the streets of Harlem, but the millionaire's son from the suburbs; this does nothing to correct the ills of society.

I look at doctors as individuals, not as a member of a race. I've had non Asian doctors that I really liked and Asian doctors that I've hated. You can say what you want about the average black person or what happened historically, but that's largely irrelevant. What matters is academic ability and the gpa/mcat combination is the best metric we have for that. Medical schools aren't looking for average people, they're looking for exceptional people. What these policies do is take away the incentive for doing well, for the people that these policies are supposed to help, as well as for those that they hurt. Just read "Affirmative Action Around the World" by Thomas Sowell.

Originally Posted by kpcrew

the hood rat from the streets of Harlem

Your perspective proves exactly why we need URM doctors. Who wants to see a physician who views them as a "hood rat" ?

Originally Posted by kpcrew

There shouldn't be any kind of difference due to skin color, it's a crude and rather absurd metric to consider. Asians aren't genetically superior or anything like that, it's that the culture promotes academic achievements in a way that others don't. Take a look at the difference between black people born in Africa that study in America and black people born in America. Their whole outlook and work ethic is completely different. I get the underserved population argument, but the reason why they're underserved is not because of the color of their skin, but because they're poor. You can say that there's a correlation and that justifies race-based considerations, but then you're just trying to target a symptom, not the cause of this injustice. The person that benefit the most is not the hood rat from the streets of Harlem, but the millionaire's son from the suburbs; this does nothing to correct the ills of society.

I look at doctors as individuals, not as a member of a race. I've had non Asian doctors that I really liked and Asian doctors that I've hated. You can say what you want about the average black person or what happened historically, but that's largely irrelevant. What matters is academic ability and the gpa/mcat combination is the best metric we have for that. Medical schools aren't looking for average people, they're looking for exceptional people. What these policies do is take away the incentive for doing well, for the people that these policies are supposed to help, as well as for those that they hurt. Just read "Affirmative Action Around the World" by Thomas Sowell.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

The comment "you don't get out much" (what I was thinking as well), means that you are demonstrating a very narrow world view that smacks of an insular lifestyle.

"Getting out" is not the same as "going out" and it doesn't cost money.

Have you ever had a conversation over a meal with a fellow student who would qualify as URM?

When someone throw a blank comment like that over an anonymous forum, it really just looked like a personal insinuation, irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
If I said "yes" to your question, would you be appalled at my position in this argument? I do have many friends who would be qualified as urm should they consider med school. Based on my experience spending time with them, I have never felt or made aware of any animosities directed toward them or myself because of their skin color. But enough about my life experiences, whether you believe it or not, as it is considered a "narrow point of view" in this debate. This is a valid argument. I can't judge a nationwide phenomenon based solely on my own experiences. We live in a country with a huge population and each person have their own view of the world. If you dig hard enough, you can certainly find remnants of racism. The question is not: is there discrimination and racism in this country? The correct question to consider when debating about the URM policy should be whether or not racism and discrimination are prevalent in today's society. To this question, I invite you to look at the skin of our president. How could he possibly win by a landslide and get elected if there are so much hatred toward African Americans?

Originally Posted by tn4596

. To this question, I invite you to look at the skin of our president. How could he possibly win by a landslide and get elected if there are so much hatred toward African Americans?

This argument is cute.

Originally Posted by kpcrew

There shouldn't be any kind of difference due to skin color, it's a crude and rather absurd metric to consider. Asians aren't genetically superior or anything like that, it's that the culture promotes academic achievements in a way that others don't. Take a look at the difference between black people born in Africa that study in America and black people born in America. Their whole outlook and work ethic is completely different. I get the underserved population argument, but the reason why they're underserved is not because of the color of their skin, but because they're poor. You can say that there's a correlation and that justifies race-based considerations, but then you're just trying to target a symptom, not the cause of this injustice. The person that benefit the most is not the hood rat from the streets of Harlem, but the millionaire's son from the suburbs; this does nothing to correct the ills of society.

I look at doctors as individuals, not as a member of a race. I've had non Asian doctors that I really liked and Asian doctors that I've hated. You can say what you want about the average black person or what happened historically, but that's largely irrelevant. What matters is academic ability and the gpa/mcat combination is the best metric we have for that. Medical schools aren't looking for average people, they're looking for exceptional people. What these policies do is take away the incentive for doing well, for the people that these policies are supposed to help, as well as for those that they hurt. Just read "Affirmative Action Around the World" by Thomas Sowell.

excuuuuuse you....who you calling hood rat? lol


Anyway, your entire outlook on medicine sees it as solely a career. A career for the benefit and advancement of the individual. American society, with its extremely individualistic, personal freedoms approach to society tends to reinforce the way you look at medicine. Another (I would argue more useful, in many cases) way to look at medicine is to see it as a healing, serving profession. When looked at in that light, medicine as an institution needs to meet the needs of the society and URM is one method of doing this.

Originally Posted by tn4596

When someone throw a blank comment like that over an anonymous forum, it really just looked like a personal insinuation, irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
If I said "yes" to your question, would you be appalled at my position in this argument? I do have many friends who would be qualified as urm should they consider med school. Based on my experience spending time with them, I have never felt or made aware of any animosities directed toward them or myself because of their skin color. But enough about my life experiences, whether you believe it or not, as it is considered a "narrow point of view" in this debate. This is a valid argument. I can't judge a nationwide phenomenon based solely on my own experiences. We live in a country with a huge population and each person have their own view of the world. If you dig hard enough, you can certainly find remnants of racism. The question is not: is there discrimination and racism in this country? The correct question to consider when debating about the URM policy should be whether or not racism and discrimination are prevalent in today's society. To this question, I invite you to look at the skin of our president. How could he possibly win by a landslide and get elected if there are so much hatred toward African Americans?

the old BUT-WE-HAVE-A-BLACK-PRESIDENT approach.

hahahahaha.

Now I know you're either trolling or have never had any real race conversation in your life.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

the old but-we-have-a-black-president approach.

Hahahahaha.

Now i know you're either trolling or have never had any real race conversation in your life.

bingo!

I'm a first generation college student. My father is a high school dropout, my mother has a high school diploma, and my sister barely graduated high school. The high school I went to is in the bottom 10th percentile in terms of state standardized testing. I go to a terrible public university because no one in my family or high school has ever emphasized hard work in high school. I live in a dead-end town in the middle of no where. During my gap year I'll probably have to work in a factory because there are few white collar jobs in my entire county. I won't get any special consideration because I'm white and I'm not poor enough to qualify as economically disadvantaged. Where is my 'URM effect?'

Originally Posted by tn4596

When someone throw a blank comment like that over an anonymous forum, it really just looked like a personal insinuation, irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
If I said "yes" to your question, would you be appalled at my position in this argument? I do have many friends who would be qualified as urm should they consider med school. Based on my experience spending time with them, I have never felt or made aware of any animosities directed toward them or myself because of their skin color. But enough about my life experiences, whether you believe it or not, as it is considered a "narrow point of view" in this debate. This is a valid argument. I can't judge a nationwide phenomenon based solely on my own experiences. We live in a country with a huge population and each person have their own view of the world. If you dig hard enough, you can certainly find remnants of racism. The question is not: is there discrimination and racism in this country? The correct question to consider when debating about the URM policy should be whether or not racism and discrimination are prevalent in today's society. To this question, I invite you to look at the skin of our president. How could he possibly win by a landslide and get elected if there are so much hatred toward African Americans?

So you think racism is not prevalent? Your use of the word "remnants" implied that racism is almost extinct and that is certainly not true in America. There is no systemic racism but it is still there and significant enough for us to all be aware of it. Hell, I am Asian and I faced racism let alone a black guy. Several other Asian friends have similar experience even though where we live is dominated by Asians.

So a black guy got elected to the oval office means that racism is pretty dead? Obama is an educated man with high social status. People like him are usually not victims of racism, poor minorities are.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

I'm a first generation college student. My father is a high school dropout, my mother has a high school diploma, and my sister barely graduated high school. The high school I went to is in the bottom 10th percentile in terms of state standardized testing. I go to a terrible public university because no one in my family or high school ever emphasized hard work in high school. I live in a dead-end town in the middle of no where. During my gap year I'll probably have to work in a factory because there simply are few white collar jobs in my entire county. I won't get any special consideration because I'm white and I'm not poor enough to qualify as economically disadvantaged. Where is my 'URM effect?'

Who told you you're "aren't poor enough?" What do you think the cutoff is? There is no official cutoff for "disadvantaged" in med school admissions. It's self-reported and self-supported.

As to the other thing I bolded, I come from the same situation almost word-for-word with regard to my family being uneducated and unaware about education.... I go to one of the top schools in the country and guess how I got there.....by informing myself. All it takes is a computer at the library, hunny.

Originally Posted by FattySlug

So you think racism is not prevalent? Your use of the word "remnants" implied that racism is almost extinct and that is certainly not true in America. There is no systemic racism but it is still there and significant enough for us to all be aware of it. Hell, I am Asian and I faced racism let alone a black guy. Several other Asian friends have similar experience even though where we live is dominated by Asians.

So a black guy got elected to the oval office means that racism is pretty dead? Obama is an educated man with high social status. People like him are usually not victims of racism, poor minorities are.

....Not to mention he was raised in multicultural Hawaii by a white family.....oh and none of his ancestors were ever enslaved property.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

I'm a first generation college student. My father is a high school dropout, my mother has a high school diploma, and my sister barely graduated high school. The high school I went to is in the bottom 10th percentile in terms of state standardized testing. I go to a terrible public university because no one in my family or high school has ever emphasized hard work in high school. I live in a dead-end town in the middle of no where. During my gap year I'll probably have to work in a factory because there are few white collar jobs in my entire county. I won't get any special consideration because I'm white and I'm not poor enough to qualify as economically disadvantaged. Where is my 'URM effect?'

You are given the opportunity to list your parents and their educational achievement. You are asked to describe how you have paid for college (what proportion from grants, loans, parents, etc), you are given the opportunity to self-identify as "disadvantaged" as a child and that is taken into consideration in admission decisions, particularly if your reason for entering medicine and your career plan is to serve in underserved areas similar to your county. On the other hand, if you want to move to the big city and practice aesthetic dermatology, you aren't bringing anything to the table that's rare or highly sought after by adcoms in regard to career goals.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

Who told you you're too poor? What do you think the cutoff is? There is no official cutoff for "disadvantaged" in med school admissions. It's self-reported and self-supported.

As to the other thing I bolded, I come from the same situation almost word-for-word with regard to my family being uneducated and unaware about education.... I go to one of the top schools in the country and guess how I got there.....by informing myself. All it takes is a computer at the library, hunny.

I don't quality for the MCAT FAP program. I'm guessing I don't qualify for economically disadvantaged status through AMCAS/schools, despite my rural living conditions and my family's work and educational background.

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm doing well in college.

I didn't read this 20 page thread, but OP...

I will let you know in a few months. Wish me luck!

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

I don't quality for the MCAT FAP program. I'm guessing I don't qualify for economically disadvantaged status through AMCAS/schools, despite my rural living conditions and my family's work and educational background.

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm doing well in college.

I'm glad to hear that and I sincerely wish you the best. I would also not just write off the idea of applying as economically disadvantaged bc you didn't get FAP. I got FAP (just barely) and my parents make about 70k a year. I plan on applying disadvantaged because of the situation I lived in and schools I went to until I was about 13.

Originally Posted by tn4596

To this question, I invite you to look at the skin of our president. How could he possibly win by a landslide and get elected if there are so much hatred toward African Americans?

I invite you to look at the President in office before the current President. That's your answer.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

You are given the opportunity to list your parents and their educational achievement. You are asked to describe how you have paid for college (what proportion from grants, loans, parents, etc), you are given the opportunity to self-identify as "disadvantaged" as a child and that is taken into consideration in admission decisions, particularly if your reason for entering medicine and your career plan is to serve in underserved areas similar to your county. On the other hand, if you want to move to the big city and practice aesthetic dermatology, you aren't bringing anything to the table that's rare or highly sought after by adcoms in regard to career goals.

My stats are "good" enough to not need a URM/rural stats boost. I think I can get away without emphasizing a desire to practice medicine in an underserved area because, frankly, I don't want to practice medicine in an underserved area, let alone primary care.

But what about students who have a desire to practice "aesthetic medicine" in a large city, yet have poor stats, an un/undereducated family, a rural upbringing, etc. Should they lie?

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

My stats are "good" enough to not need a URM/rural stats boost. I think I can get away without emphasizing a desire to practice medicine in an underserved area because, frankly, I don't want to practice medicine in an underserved area, let alone primary care.

But what about students who have a desire to practice "aesthetic medicine" in a large city, yet have poor stats, an un/undereducated family, a rural upbringing, etc. Should they lie?

I don't think anyone should lie. We all know admissions is a game that one must play to some extent, but when you cheat, that's not acceptable.

If what these people want to practice is money-making medicine, it isn't wrong to expect them to have astronomical numbers. I don't feel bad about that at all.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

I don't think anyone should lie. We all know admissions is a game that one must play to some extent, but when you cheat, that's not acceptable.

If what these people want to practice is money-making medicine, it isn't wrong to expect them to have astronomical numbers. I don't feel bad about that at all.

It's acceptable to indiscriminately boost URM stats, regardless of where or what type of medicine they want to practice, but it's not acceptable to indiscriminately boost rural stats?

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

It's acceptable to indiscriminately boost URM stats, regardless of where or what type of medicine they want to practice, but it's not acceptable to indiscriminately boost rural stats?

I never said that. Rural applicants also should get a boost. ANYONE who wants to practice "boutique, money-making" medicine should not receive boosts that would otherwise come if they planned on helping their communities in some form.

I wanna play too!

Born a first generation Mexican American, my father came to America at the young age of fourteen. My dad, originally planning to finish school here in America and go to college, never followed thru with his dream. Instead he worked his way up the latter at a lumber mill where he currently works as a senior machinist and supervisor.

My mother was born and raised right here in America where she attended the same schools I would later attend. My mother and I even had the same fifth grade teacher who retired shortly after I graduated his class. My mother completed high school, attended beauty school where she found she did not enjoy the work. My mother is currently a manager of a deli in a grocery story where my dad's niece also works.

As for me, I'm the first in my family to attend college. My parents could not be more proud of my dreams. I do not feel ethnicity has made my goals any more difficult, but the culture, the language and the people mean everything to me.

My real challenge in life is coping with my deafness and the effect the American Deaf people have had on me. I desire a practice where I serve primarily Deaf patients with a good mix of Latino patients thrown in.

Originally Posted by circulus vitios

My stats are "good" enough to not need a URM/rural stats boost. I think I can get away without emphasizing a desire to practice medicine in an underserved area because, frankly, I don't want to practice medicine in an underserved area, let alone primary care.

But what about students who have a desire to practice "aesthetic medicine" in a large city, yet have poor stats, an un/undereducated family, a rural upbringing, etc. Should they lie?

You don't need to qualify for FAP to claim a disadvantaged childhood. Heck, I saw someone earning $100K/yr who self identified (legitimately) as having had a disadvantaged childhood and based on the description, no one disagreed that the description was accurate.



Poor white applicants from rural areas are uncommon and there really is no incentive to lie about your background (place of birth, county in which you were raised, parents level of education and county of residence, etc). If a school thinks that you will add to the diversity of the class, regardless of your career goals, then those details will come into play. However, if there are similar backwoods applicants with better stats, they will get the nod ahead of you. Same applies to URM -- less than half of them are admitted to any school.

Its interesting reading some of these comments. The "Ohh you don't know what its like" or "Thats just your experience" coming from the other side with LizzyM and wolfie. Ironically, you are doing the same thing but just seem to believe your opinions are superior. As if someone who isn't a certain skin color cannot comprehend what discrimination is and determine if he's seen it or experienced it.

The family of a 5 year-old white boy who was lit on fire in Kansas City by a group of African-Americans earlier this year probably knows a thing or two about discrimination and racism.

Its interesting really. Nigerians, some of the smartest people I've met have surprisingly not been in favor of AA. Do you know that Nigerian Americans have the single highest rate of education in the U.S. surpassing every other ethnic group? Yet their income levels are about the about the same as African-Americans in the U.S. so you can drop the coming "Ohh they were probably rich" thing.


So why is it that?

Surely the "white privilege" thing that doesn't allow anyone other than white people to succeed must affect them too right?

It couldn't be because of hard work..No! That would be insane!

So I'll say it again, the logical reason to base a criteria for choosing those who are said to be poorer on race is flawed, a socio-economic would already have more of the disadvantaged race but also everyone else who is struggling. (In regards to AA not URM. I know what URM is for)

I hope lizzyM interviews me

Originally Posted by Coldsoldier

Its interesting reading some of these comments. The "Ohh you don't know what its like" or "Thats just your experience" coming from the other side with LizzyM and wolfie. Ironically, you are doing the same thing but just seem to believe your opinions are superior. As if someone who isn't a certain skin color cannot comprehend what discrimination is and determine if he's seen it or experienced it.

The family of a 5 year-old white boy who was lit on fire in Kansas City by a group of African-Americans earlier this year probably knows a thing or two about discrimination and racism.

Its interesting really. Nigerians, some of the smartest people I've met have surprisingly not been in favor of AA. Do you know that Nigerian Americans have the single highest rate of education in the U.S. surpassing every other ethnic group? Yet their income levels are about the about the same as African-Americans in the U.S. so you can drop the coming "Ohh they were probably rich" thing.


So why is it that?

Surely the "white privilege" thing that doesn't allow anyone other than white people to succeed must affect them too right?

It couldn't be because of hard work..No! That would be insane!

So I'll say it again, the logical reason to base a criteria for choosing those who are said to be poorer on race is flawed, a socio-economic would already have more of the disadvantaged race but also everyone else who is struggling. (In regards to AA not URM. I know what URM is for)

If they work so hard and are so highly educated, why aren't they making bank? Could it be racism?

Originally Posted by lizzym

if they work so hard and are so highly educated, why aren't they making bank? Could it be racism?

+1

Originally Posted by Coldsoldier

Its interesting reading some of these comments. The "Ohh you don't know what its like" or "Thats just your experience" coming from the other side with LizzyM and wolfie. Ironically, you are doing the same thing but just seem to believe your opinions are superior. As if someone who isn't a certain skin color cannot comprehend what discrimination is and determine if he's seen it or experienced it.

The family of a 5 year-old white boy who was lit on fire in Kansas City by a group of African-Americans earlier this year probably knows a thing or two about discrimination and racism.

Its interesting really. Nigerians, some of the smartest people I've met have surprisingly not been in favor of AA. Do you know that Nigerian Americans have the single highest rate of education in the U.S. surpassing every other ethnic group? Yet their income levels are about the about the same as African-Americans in the U.S. so you can drop the coming "Ohh they were probably rich" thing.


So why is it that?

Surely the "white privilege" thing that doesn't allow anyone other than white people to succeed must affect them too right?

It couldn't be because of hard work..No! That would be insane!

So I'll say it again, the logical reason to base a criteria for choosing those who are said to be poorer on race is flawed, a socio-economic would already have more of the disadvantaged race but also everyone else who is struggling. (In regards to AA not URM. I know what URM is for)

When precisely did I say that?

Are you suggesting that a horrendous incident of burning of that child in Kansas City is indicative and symptomatic of a history of black-on-white oppression and violence in this country?

Because if you are, that's laughable.

Also, I know about the success of Nigerians. I know a lot of them. Guess what....the reason they and Indians and many other Asians do so well here, is because the ones that come here legally are already the the richest in their own country. Every society has an upper crust and we happen to attract it. In the 60s through 90s, it didn't take a poor Mexican a lot of money to take a bus up to the border and cross it. On the other hand, it takes a lot of upfront investment to buy legal resident Visa and a Lagos-Los Angeles plane ticket.

Originally Posted by SpecterGT260

This argument is cute.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

the old BUT-WE-HAVE-A-BLACK-PRESIDENT approach.

hahahahaha.

Now I know you're either trolling or have never had any real race conversation in your life.

If we don't vote for a black man, we're racist. If we do - well, it doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by Dave89

If we don't vote for a black man, we're racist. If we do - well, it doesn't mean anything.

The majority of white America did not vote for Barack Obama. He lost the white male vote pretty decisively actually.

Originally Posted by LizzyM

If they work so hard and are so highly educated, why aren't they making bank? Could it be racism?

Hm, are you implying that they are paid less? You're saying that these people, most educated in the country, are knowingly letting themselves get paid less and allowing clear discrimination? Haha thats pretty funny. But now that I do think about it, I wonder why not. Maybe its the fields they go into.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

The majority of white America did not vote for Barack Obama. He lost the white male vote pretty decisively actually.

Same way I could say Mitt Romney lost the black america vote the second he wasn't black. Same way I could say that obama won the black male vote decisively because he was black. Same way I could say Romney won the white vote because he was white.

All acts based on skin color.

You'll just choose to focus on Obama loosing the white vote though because it fits your narrative.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

The majority of white America did not vote for Barack Obama. He lost the white male vote pretty decisively actually.

You do not want to go there, considering the percentages of the black vote.

Remove the plank from your own eye before complaining about the speck of sawdust in others', and all that.

Originally Posted by 0919mmk

Hi, you must be new around here.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are just ignorant, and not a troll or racist. How do I explain this is one sentence... here goes.

The "URM advantage" has nothing to do with skin color, but rather the historical and present socioeconomical DISadvantage that the AVERAGE person of color experiences compared to the average white male. The URM advantage is a civilized society's attempt to correct for the disadvantage, and while it is not perfect, it is better than nothing.

OK that was 2 sentences. I don't mean to belittle your opinion, but, you know, you're just wrong.

Not exactly. There is a reason there is a separate disadvantaged box.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

When precisely did I say that?

Are you suggesting that a horrendous incident of burning of that child in Kansas City is indicative and symptomatic of a history of black-on-white oppression and violence in this country?

Because if you are, that's laughable.

Also, I know about the success of Nigerians. I know a lot of them. Guess what....the reason they and Indians and many other Asians do so well here, is because the ones that come here legally are already the the richest in their own country. Every society has an upper crust and we happen to attract it. In the 60s through 90s, it didn't take a poor Mexican a lot of money to take a bus up to the border and cross it. On the other hand, it takes a lot of upfront investment to buy legal resident Visa and a Lagos-Los Angeles plane ticket.

I'm saying not only people of color experience racism.

Haha oh the richest? Is that why their average househould income was about the same the Hispanic's? Quite interesting.

Originally Posted by Dave89

You do not want to go there, considering the percentages of the black vote.

Remove the plank from your own eye before complaining about the speck of sawdust in others', and all that.

You mean it's a bad thing that black people went overwhelmingly with the first serious black candidate ever? And on top of that, said candidate backs policies that are most to their economic and social benefit?

You don't say..... What a shameful act on their part

Originally Posted by Coldsoldier

I'm saying not only people of color experience racism.

Haha oh the richest? Is that why their average househould income was about the same the Hispanic's? Quite interesting.

Show me that data. Here in Chicagoland, Asian Indians and other Asians have far and away the highest household incomes (somewhere in the 70k per year). We don't have that many Nigerians overall in the area, so I've never seen any numbers about them.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

You mean it's a bad thing that black people went overwhelmingly with the first serious black candidate ever? And on top of that, said candidate backs policies that are most to their economic and social benefit?

You don't say..... What a shameful act on their part

Barack Obama shares zero similarity with a huge chunk of his supporters. He's had a cushier life than most of them can ever hope to attain.

As to your point about economic/social benefits:

Originally Posted by wolfie77

You mean it's a bad thing that black people went overwhelmingly with the first serious black candidate ever? And on top of that, said candidate backs policies that are most to their economic and social benefit?

You don't say..... What a shameful act on their part

Haha wow. But it'll be a bad thing if all white people all voted for a white president right that would back economic and social benefit? Isn't that why republicans are called racist again? So its okay to vote for someone simply because of their skin color (which is the same as not voting for someone because of theirs)?

Ron Paul backed policies that benefited everyone. Didn't see him do so well in polls. Did you?

Originally Posted by Dave89

Barack Obama shares zero similarity with a huge chunk of his supporters. He's had a cushier life than most of them can ever hope to attain.

As to your point about economic/social benefits:

That's where his support for better economic policies comes in. Although he was raised pretty cushy, he isn't trying to cut taxes on the rich and slash social programs.


Yeah, I would agree that it's laughable that his positions are the best we can do for the marginalized in this country.....but compared to McCain/Bush/Romney, he would be the one to have marginalized folks' backs the most.

Originally Posted by Coldsoldier

Haha wow. But it'll be a bad thing if all white people all voted for a white president right that would back economic and social benefit? Isn't that why republicans are called racist again? So its okay to vote for someone simply because of their skin color (which is the same as not voting for someone because of theirs)?

Ron Paul backed policies that benefited everyone. Didn't see him do so well in polls. Did you?

Please go read more of this thread. I'm not going to repeat myself as to why the situation is different.

Benefit everyone? LOL. Ron Paul (though an honorable and consistent man) has policies that would f- me as student who relies on govt loans for my education.

Originally Posted by wolfie77

That's where his support for better economic policies comes. Although he was raised pretty cushy, he isn't trying to cut taxes on the rich and slash social programs.


Yeah, I would agree that it's laughable that his positions are the best we can do for the marginalized in this country.....but compared to McCain/Bush/Romney, he would be the one to have marginalized folks' backs the most.

Um... This is awkward, but... the Obama presidency has been horrible in terms of blacks' unemployment rates.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/06/21/...s-under-obama/

Originally Posted by Dave89

Um... This is awkward, but... the Obama presidency has been horrible in terms of blacks' unemployment rates.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/06/21/...s-under-obama/

Damn right. I agree. It's sad that his policies are the best we can in this country.

But do you know what things looked like for black America under conservative Ronald Reagan? That man and his silly drug war have contributed to the death and incarceration of more black people than anyone before or since.