ICU Books

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Hi,
I am not got going to be able to do a ICU rotation during my 4th year and was wondering if any one has any recommendations for some ICU books that can give me a good background and can be used as a good referance book during my intern year rotation that I can begin to look at while i have some time off? Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by Drnunia

Hi,
I am not got going to be able to do a ICU rotation during my 4th year and was wondering if any one has any recommendations for some ICU books that can give me a good background and can be used as a good referance book during my intern year rotation that I can begin to look at while i have some time off? Thanks for your help.

The ICU book seems to be popular among interns. I'm not sure what the CC bible would be, Principles of CC, Irwin & Rippe's, or Textbook of CC, or it there is another one out there.

Having read some of both second and third editions of The ICU Book, I think 3rd is a vast improvement. Easy to read, up to date on the evidence (as much as any text can be) and high yield. Anyone what to buy my 2nd ed?

Originally Posted by proman

Having read some of both second and third editions of The ICU Book, I think 3rd is a vast improvement. Easy to read, up to date on the evidence (as much as any text can be) and high yield. Anyone what to buy my 2nd ed?

Your sales pitch needs some work

I think the critical care section (part 10) of Harrison's is pretty reasonable. I read it during my MICU month as an MS4 and thought it was pretty useful and not too long but hits the high points. If you want more than that, just read up on the references - the online updates proved very useful for more current info during my rotation.

Originally Posted by JayneCobb

I'm not sure what the CC bible would be, Principles of CC, Irwin & Rippe's, or Textbook of CC, or it there is another one out there.

What are peoples opinions of these books? Which one would be better for a Medicine resident going into CC? Thanks

Originally Posted by proman

Having read some of both second and third editions of The ICU Book, I think 3rd is a vast improvement. Easy to read, up to date on the evidence (as much as any text can be) and high yield. Anyone what to buy my 2nd ed?

Marino's book is great - especially the part where he says that trendelenburg decreases Cardiac Ouput. Despite the excellent reasons and evidence he sites, everyone still puts patients in trendelenburg for increasing BP. Increased BP does not equal increased CPP, as he so eloquently states. Nobody listens however.

Originally Posted by epidural man

Marino's book is great - especially the part where he says that trendelenburg decreases Cardiac Ouput. Despite the excellent reasons and evidence he sites, everyone still puts patients in trendelenburg for increasing BP. Increased BP does not equal increased CPP, as he so eloquently states. Nobody listens however.

Menino's book is great, alot of the stuff reads like a conspiracy story as he debunks one known "ICU truth" after another.

At the same time, Marino preaches a bunch of stuff that is totally out of date. His discussion of TTP is way out of date, still says you have to have all five criteria even though hematologists have rejected that for a while. A lot of his arguments are based on scientific principles or animal data without any clinical evidence to back it up. I think it is overall a very readable introduction but still has the "cult of personality" feel of one dominant, strongly opinionated author.

Originally Posted by augmel

At the same time, Marino preaches a bunch of stuff that is totally out of date. His discussion of TTP is way out of date, still says you have to have all five criteria even though hematologists have rejected that for a while. A lot of his arguments are based on scientific principles or animal data without any clinical evidence to back it up. I think it is overall a very readable introduction but still has the "cult of personality" feel of one dominant, strongly opinionated author.

Careful -- there is a big difference between being "without" clinical evidence and in "conflict" with clinical evidence. Marino doesn't generlaly preach anything in "conflict" with clinical evidence.

I wish we had MORE support of arguments based on scientific principles or animal data when there isn't any clinical evidence available. Instead, it has become fashionable in this era of EBM to diminish clinical decision making founded on scientific principles and/or animal data without a study supporting it. Some things just can't be studies because to withhold treatment (as would be necessary in a double blinded study) would never get past a modern IRB.

Don't get me wrong -- I wish there was a study for everything we do, too... I wish every therapy we had was evidence based, and I am a big supporter of the principles and general approach of basing one's practice on EBM. But don't become an EBM snob... it's akin to missing the forest for the trees And the ability to make a decision on sound scientific reasoning in the absence of data is one of the best parts about critical care -- you're in unchartred territory and you get to THINK instead of blindly following some stupid protocol

totally agree with most of what's been said.

Personally, I like Marino's The ICU Book, but beware, some attendings hate it! For surgery Surgical Critical Care by Abrams is good BUT 3x as expensive and way more dense... probably better though...

I'd still spend the $50 on The ICU Book... it's been pretty good so far, or I just don't knwo the mistakes -- which is always scary!!!

Hey guys

Just got Marino's ICU book (3rd edition), will be doing a month long rotation next month as an M4. Looks pretty dense (nearly 1000 pgs), although there are lots of references. Any tips of which chapters to focus on / which chapters you found yourself going back to during your rotation? (Or should I just plough through it and hope something stays in

Originally Posted by bulgethetwine

Careful -- there is a big difference between being "without" clinical evidence and in "conflict" with clinical evidence. Marino doesn't generlaly preach anything in "conflict" with clinical evidence.

I wish we had MORE support of arguments based on scientific principles or animal data when there isn't any clinical evidence available. Instead, it has become fashionable in this era of EBM to diminish clinical decision making founded on scientific principles and/or animal data without a study supporting it.

I completely agree with you

At any rate, I am under the impression that sometimes, it is Dr. Marino's personal opinions what you can read in his book. While this may often be a remarkable asset to his work, personally I feel that it should be more clearly stated.

As for the original question, I think that Schmidt and Hall's "Principles of Critical Care" is an excellent book, very clear and comprehensive. I would definitely recommend it to anyone who has a real interest in crical care medicine.

Originally Posted by Enrico81

As for the original question, I think that Schmidt and Hall's "Principles of Critical Care" is an excellent book, very clear and comprehensive.

It seems good from what i've read of it on Access Medicine. Since I still have access to AM, I bought Textbook of CC. It should be coming in any day and I'll give my opinion as to how it compares to Principles before too long.

Originally Posted by augmel

At the same time, Marino preaches a bunch of stuff that is totally out of date. His discussion of TTP is way out of date, still says you have to have all five criteria even though hematologists have rejected that for a while. A lot of his arguments are based on scientific principles or animal data without any clinical evidence to back it up. I think it is overall a very readable introduction but still has the "cult of personality" feel of one dominant, strongly opinionated author.

I agree. He basically shoots down the concept of auto-PEEP without really citing any sources. He often speaks from experience, but not evidence-base. His book is often a reads like an exercise in appeal to authority.

copro

Originally Posted by epidural man

Marino's book is great - especially the part where he says that trendelenburg decreases Cardiac Ouput. Despite the excellent reasons and evidence he sites, everyone still puts patients in trendelenburg for increasing BP. Increased BP does not equal increased CPP, as he so eloquently states. Nobody listens however.

my understanding about trendelenburg is...per sabiston:

Trendelenburg position increases intrathoracic pressure, central venous pressure, capillary wedge pressure, and mean arterial pressure, increasing cardiac work. (So CO may suffer)

the point that i'm throwing a patient in trendelenburg is the point that somebody better be getting a pressor or the epi and atropine. i don't care much about the CPP at that point- that's not what's going to push them into a code. it's one of the first things you can do to help the BP, especially while you're waiting for drugs.

what do you think?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...=38BR75BGI9A1G

Is this book any good?

Originally Posted by ketafol

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...=38BR75BGI9A1G

Is this book any good?

I've heard good things about it from surgery residents on trauma surgery and covering the SICU. And while I never worked with Marini, those who I've spoken to who have think he's a well-respected writer.

Cool Thanks. Just deciding wether to by Marino or Marini? Marini is 10 bucks cheaper, but almost two years older.

Does anyone have any opinion on House Officer Guide to ICU Care by Elefteriades? I purchased it and have liked it quite a bit. The thing is it's from 1994, and I'm afraid it might be outdated, despite the fact that many of the principles he explains are applicable regardless of any new advances.

Originally Posted by JayneCobb

The ICU book seems to be popular among interns. I'm not sure what the CC bible would be, Principles of CC, Irwin & Rippe's, or Textbook of CC, or it there is another one out there.

just started reading it a few days ago. excellent book. The way i am going, i will be done with it much sooner than i had anticipated.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Marino is a favorite of mine. Easily digestible. Makes sense. Its by no means comprehensive.

I also like this Lange Book. Combined with Marino you've got all your bases covered.
http://www.amazon.com/CURRENT-Critic...7198723&sr=1-3


This book is the bomb. If you are completely new to ICU management then nab it. It covers all the basics.
http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Care-...594771-6026363

There is a new edition out but i havent looked at it yet.

Do any of the above books have descriptions of the procedures typically performed in the ICU? I've learned through "see one, do one", but reading helps solidify my memory. If not, can anyone recommend anything?

Originally Posted by Geri_Gal

Do any of the above books have descriptions of the procedures typically performed in the ICU? I've learned through "see one, do one", but reading helps solidify my memory. If not, can anyone recommend anything?

They all have some degree of technique stuff in them. But if you want a dedicated procedure book, Roberts & Hedges is a great one for procedures. .

I love Marino's book but if you want a bible for CCM, this is what it is :

Critical Care Medicine: Perioperative Management by Murray

Originally Posted by hoyden

I love Marino's book but if you want a bible for CCM, this is what it is :

Critical Care Medicine: Perioperative Management by Murray

Alright, after a few months. I have read decent amounts of Marino, a little of Marini, I purchased Murray and Textbook of critical care as well has have online access to Jesse Hall's Principles of Critical Care. So I'll give my opinion on these.

Overview Books

Marino's "The ICU Book". Very well done, concise and gets to the important point and I enjoy the fact that he provides references for pretty much everything he writes and I do like that for the most part he delineates his opinions from the text. The example I think best highlights this is the chapter on Swan's. He goes through the whole bit and then admits that there is data which shows no improvement in survival with their use, but offers his opinion that this is a test and should by itself not impact mortality in anyway. (Personally, if a test doesn't have any impact on the outcome despite using it to guide your clinical course, I'm not sure of the true utility of the test in question, but that's just me. And I'm no authority to really question Marino..) There is a lot of math and physiology references in here which at times makes for a clunky read, but ultimately, most of this is needed information to make his points.

Marini's Critical Care Medicine: The Essentials. Akin to Marino's, another well done book. Lots of relevant information which is cut down to the more clinically relevant to the ICU. I prefer Marino a bit, but that's just a personal preference. Had I started reading Marini's first, I'd probably prefer it more.

Critical Care Handbook of the Massachusetts General Hospital; Think Washington Manual for Critical care. It's a small pocket book sized and is outline formated for most of the book. It's extremely high yield, but lacks the explanations or physiology behind most of what it discusses. Personally would not be the book I'd recommend to a student to read through first, I'd use it solely as a review book.

Textbooks

Textbook of critical care: This is a textbook (obviously) so it's large, clunky and not practice to carry around. It is chock full of information and done so in nice bite-size chapter bits. It reads, IMHO, much like Harrison's, it has more attention to the bio-chemical details than many other books but is presented in a way which helps integrate the material. Out of the 3 textbooks I've perused, my personal favorite.

Critical Care Medicine: Perioperative Management. Again, another textbook, I found a copy on Amazon for $25, so I couldn't pass it up based on the above recommendation. Coming from a medicine-centric perspective, it leaves out many details and really didn't seem to offer much in the way of actual management of the conditions which it described. I had high hopes at least for the aspect of fluid management and sedation aspects of owning a book by Anesthesiologists, but the information is so chopped up and inter-dispersed in the other chapters that it isn't worth my time to really read. My personal least favorite text book of critical care.

Jesse Hall's Principles of Critical Care; Yet another textbook, and like Textbook of Critical care, much more medicine-centric. I'd call the differences between this book and Textbook of CC as being very similar to the differences between Harrison's and Cecil's. Principles of CC is a little more concise and has a less physiology to it. It starts out each chapter with a Key Points section which sums up the chapter you're about to read. It's easy to read for the most part and my second favorite of the textbooks.

The Washington Manual of Critical Care has recently been published. I am using it now in my ICU rotation and I like it quite a bit.

Like the Washington Manual of Medical Therapeutics, it is dense and complete invoking both physiology and clinical trials. Two features that I particularly like are the algorithmic approach, making it a LOT easier to decide what to do with patients in the middle of the night, and also the references at the end of each chapter which, for the most part, seem to be high yield.

Haven't used it enough yet to know how much I like it compared to the other handbooks, but so far, along with the Marino textbook to read during time off, I think it might be the best book to have in your pocket in the ICU. Of course, I am somewhat biased being at WashU...

B

Quick plug for this book. I felt that it was well written; basic enough to get through in a month but detailed enough to understand the concepts. As an intern, you need something that gives you the info. in a way that is digestible and readable. Dr. Wheeler was one of my attendings during my 1.5 mos. of MICU this year, and he is unbelievable. He told me a new version will be coming out soon that he believes will be even better, I plan on getting it when it is released.

I also really enjoyed Marino (I've got a month of neuro ICU and a month of SICU on top of my MICU this year) and thought it was a little easier to read than CCM: The Essentials.

Haven't seen the Wash Manual of CC, will have to check it out.

Any of you know if this book is any good? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Handb...ecc_rvi_cart_2

I love the other oxford handbooks I own.

Originally Posted by soleluna

Any of you know if this book is any good? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Handb...ecc_rvi_cart_2

I love the other oxford handbooks I own.

I picked up the Parrillo and Dellinger "Critical Care Medicine - Principles of Diagnosis and Management in the Adult" 2008 edition a while back. I'm real pleased with it.

I'm a fellow now, and it will probably serve as my "bible" along with the accompanying self-review and assessment. As a resident, I got a lot of mileage out of The ICU Book (and still keep it handy).

Originally Posted by emergiQ

I picked up the Parrillo and Dellinger "Critical Care Medicine - Principles of Diagnosis and Management in the Adult" 2008 edition a while back. I'm real pleased with it.

I'm a fellow now, and it will probably serve as my "bible" along with the accompanying self-review and assessment. As a resident, I got a lot of mileage out of The ICU Book (and still keep it handy).

Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by SexPanther

Quick plug for this book. I felt that it was well written; basic enough to get through in a month but detailed enough to understand the concepts. As an intern, you need something that gives you the info. in a way that is digestible and readable. Dr. Wheeler was one of my attendings during my 1.5 mos. of MICU this year, and he is unbelievable. He told me a new version will be coming out soon that he believes will be even better, I plan on getting it when it is released.

Aha! Your bias is revealed.

Seriously though, I have this book and I'm not all that happy with it. I think it's a little too basic, and some parts, particularly the Vent Modes section, are really poorly written - like trying to do too much with words and not enough diagrams.

Originally Posted by fakin' the funk

Aha! Your bias is revealed.

Seriously though, I have this book and I'm not all that happy with it. I think it's a little too basic, and some parts, particularly the Vent Modes section, are really poorly written - like trying to do too much with words and not enough diagrams.

True dat, Marino is a better book all around for sure. The Lange Critical Care book looked decent upon a perusal the other day. Find one you like and go with it, supplement with journal articles...your attendings can point you in the right direction for these.

As for my bias, Wheeler is definitely the man. If you are a medicine type and considering CCM, then I urge you to consider Vanderbilt. Top notch (I'm not in the medicine program so this is relatively unbiased).

Has anyone been quick on the draw and checked out this new book by Marino yet: The Little ICU Book of Facts & Formulas

Cheers,
thatuvicguy

been wondering the same thing... anyone?

Originally Posted by thatuvicguy

Has anyone been quick on the draw and checked out this new book by Marino yet: The Little ICU Book of Facts & Formulas

Cheers,
thatuvicguy

The Little ICU Book is a great book. I find it helpful. I really like the fluid section.

Cambie

Anyone use Critical Care Medicine by Parrillo?
http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Care-...1611568&sr=8-1

The Washington Manual of Critical Care ....I found this very useful.

oxford handbok of acute medicine my number one book.

I like it too

Originally Posted by nocdoc

The Washington Manual of Critical Care ....I found this very useful.

Originally Posted by dina80

oxford handbok of acute medicine my number one book.

both

Does anyone have this book http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Critica...0325121&sr=1-1
l bought it last yr not having ant refference for it, ummy: and have compared it with Marino's book, and this one is worse, espacially the mechanical vent part. It does contain a protocols at the end of it, which are good, atleast most of them. Just wanted to see other people opinions
Can someone recommmend a ICU book for anesthesia/CC directed ones, meaning good medical and surgical parts...

Originally Posted by Intensivist

Does anyone have this book http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Critica...0325121&sr=1-1
l bought it last yr not having ant refference for it, ummy: and have compared it with Marino's book, and this one is worse, espacially the mechanical vent part. It does contain a protocols at the end of it, which are good, atleast most of them. Just wanted to see other people opinions
Can someone recommmend a ICU book for anesthesia/CC directed ones, meaning good medical and surgical parts...

http://www.amazon.com/Civetta-Taylor...2440709&sr=8-1

This one just came out last year.
It is skewed towards SICU/surgical disease more, but also has a all the medicine topics covered.

Originally Posted by JackBauERfan

http://www.amazon.com/Civetta-Taylor...2440709&sr=8-1

This one just came out last year.
It is skewed towards SICU/surgical disease more, but also has a all the medicine topics covered.

Agreed. Excellent book. Probably the best source and a large amount of the first part of the text covering how an ICU actually runs. It is very expensive though. Get someone to buy it for you. It is the definitive source on SICU management, and has a long history from one of the true giants and champions of the field, Civetta, at University of Miami.

Biff

Originally Posted by JackBauERfan

http://www.amazon.com/Civetta-Taylor...2440709&sr=8-1

This one just came out last year.
It is skewed towards SICU/surgical disease more, but also has a all the medicine topics covered.

i love this book....i would definitely buy it except for the price tag and the fact that i'm not in residency yet. thankfully the library has it

I like Evidence Based Practice of Critical Care. It has great concise reviews of frequently discussed topics, such as ARDS, sepsis, etc.

I also like Marini and Civetta. I would only buy the latter if you're sure you want to do a fellowship, and you have some department book funds.

Also, Multiprofessional Critical Care Review, published by SCCM.

The ASCCA has a PDF guidebook for residents that's a nice review.

Would you guys recomend the icu book 3rd edition or the little icu book?

Right now Im reading Vincent. It is theeeeeee shnizzle!

Originally Posted by VentdependenT

Right now Im reading Vincent. It is theeeeeee shnizzle!

Found in the "jungle" for 180ish.
Will give it a shot.