Doris Duke/CRTP/HHMI/Sarnoff Thread

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Originally Posted by Helo

According to my convo with the UTSW program, I am not sure if anyone had an "in person" interview...

But there were some other posters on this thread who promised they'd write about their experiences, and my post was to remind them. But anyone else can contribute!

UTSW: had a phone interview with program director last week about research interests and future aspirations - informal, he said they were anticipating 8 spots for ~25 applications.

Upitt: no word since completed application

UNC: heard a while ago that my mentor had written me a letter and that my app would go ahead to the selection committee - Helo, did you hear about an acceptence?

UPenn: nothing since interview

UCSF: nothing new

Has anyone heard about an acceptence to any of the programs? I heard that all programs (Doris Duke and HHMI affiliates) had an agreement that they would all inform students no earlier than March 21 this year.

Good luck to everyone! Its going to be a nerve wracking 24 hours...

Originally Posted by Helo

According to my convo with the UTSW program, I am not sure if anyone had an "in person" interview. He mentioned that of the 50+ applicants, 20ish were being called on the phone of which there are 8 spots.

Did anyone hear from UNC this morning?

Originally Posted by Electrophys

UTSW: had a phone interview with program director last week about research interests and future aspirations - informal, he said they were anticipating 8 spots for ~25 applications.

Upitt: no word since completed application

UNC: heard a while ago that my mentor had written me a letter and that my app would go ahead to the selection committee - Helo, did you hear about an acceptence?

UPenn: nothing since interview

UCSF: nothing new

Has anyone heard about an acceptence to any of the programs? I heard that all programs (Doris Duke and HHMI affiliates) had an agreement that they would all inform students no earlier than March 21 this year.

Good luck to everyone! Its going to be a nerve wracking 24 hours...

I feel like tomorrow is never going to come.

Let me just mention my interviews for others in the future:

HHMI: This program was very formal with difficult interviews that really probe you on your research. The facilities were nice, but you have to consider whether you want to live and work at the NIH for a whole year. I realized this situation just wasn't for me. This program started as my top choice, but moved down my list after the interview.

Iowa DD: Layed back as ****. Just shoot the **** with a bunch of interviewers and hang out. I had a fab time and could definately see myself there.

CRTP: This program was somewhere in between Iowa and HHMI. The fellows seemed like they were having more fun than the HHMI kids. I like the fact that you don't live at the NIH, but are within walking distance of it. This interview was a great experience.

Haven't heard back from any of the other programs I applied at.

In at CRTP. Anyone heard from any dd programs today?

Accepted to HHMI Cloister program, but rejected for HHMI Med Fellows -- both via email this morning. Did not apply to any other research programs.

d

accepted utsw dd

Accepted to DDCRF at WashU!!!
Rejected for HHMI med fellows.

So nobody has heard a word either way from the UNC Doris Duke Program?

Still hoping there's a chance!!

accepted at utsw - gonna take this most likely; will decide this weekend

waitlisted at pitt

have not heard back from other dd programs (im guessing that means i wasnt in their first round)

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

Accepted to Sarnoff yesterday and an alternate for Cloisters! Psyched to be taking a year off for research!

I'll post more later about the specific interview experiences.

Originally Posted by BuzzLightYear

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I think the prestige would depend on the DD institution. Obviously it's most important to go to the program that you think you'd get the most out of, but prestige is an important factor to consider in your decision.

In general, most people that I speak to say that the "prestige" ranking is:
HHMI (either program) and Top DD schools (Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, UCSF, WashU, Columbia, etc.) > CRTP and other DD schools

Having said that, all programs are prestigious and all have their pros and cons. The program is going to be what you make of it and none will hurt you in the future.

I got one of the "other DD schools", CRTP, and Cloister and am currently making my decision.

Rejected from Columbia DD. No word on the others. Good luck to the rest of you in the coming days and weeks!

Yeah I got a rejection from the Columbia DD. My roommate got a waitlist from the UCSF DD and one of my friends got an acceptance from the UCSF DD.

Originally Posted by BuzzLightYear

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I think it depends upon what you want to do research in. The NIH basically has top research in all departments, but not all schools do. If you know specifically what department you want to do research in, I would find out whether or not that school has good research in that area (maybe by asking people in that area at your school). It also depends upon WHERE you want to be - do you like the area of the school vs Bethesda? Do you like that the CRTP basically has a built in group of like 70 students (if you count Cloisters + CRTP) that you can hang out with? Also, are you considering doing residency at the school you got the DD at? B/c you could potentially make some good connections while there. I would consider all these factors over prestige b/c I think when you apply to residencies they're going to be more interested in the quality of your research and your letter from it than they are in whether it was a DD or NIH program.

d

Going to the Cloister! .....that does sound kind of odd....I'm going to the nunnery! :-P

The interview was on a Friday. You have 2 interviews-2 people interview you in each one, 30 minutes each. Supposedly there is a "personality" and a "research" interview. I'd say my research interview was 25 minutes pure research with relevant questions on their part thrown in. My "personality" interview was probably 50 50-research and "tell me about yourself i want to make sure you're not entirely socially inept" The research interview was pretty basic, no really bizarre off the wall questions just-how is this relevant, where could it go from here, etc etc.... Pretty stress free, everybody is nice to you, and there's a constant supply of food.

GL to everyone!

Originally Posted by BuzzLightYear

I need some help...would you go to Doris Duke or NIH-CRTP? I can't decide...any input is appreciated. The research is basically the same @ both places, but which one has the most prestige?

I've heard that Doris Duke - no matter which school - is more prestigious than CRTP. I think probably because it's been around much longer and the name is well-known. But, that said, I'm sure you'd have a great experience at either program.

Anyone have any thoughts about Sarnoff versus DD Wash U?

FYI:
Doris Duke inception was 2000

NIH CRTP was founded in 1997

I don't think that there is a blanket statement that any DD is more prestigious than NIH CRTP.

anyone know when the dd programs start? is it different for each program? trying to figure out if i can fit in an elective in late june...

d

Originally Posted by diosa428

Yeah I got a rejection from the Columbia DD. My roommate got a waitlist from the UCSF DD and one of my friends got an acceptance from the UCSF DD.

Did UCSF interview people on their waitlist? Or did they interview only those they gave acceptances to?

Originally Posted by audramill

Did UCSF interview people on their waitlist? Or did they interview only those they gave acceptances to?

As far as I know they didn't interview anyone. But my roommate def didn't interview. The email she got didn't officially say it was a waitlist, it just said that they had made their initial offers and would possibly be making more offers in the future. Since I didn't get one, I took it to mean she was still in consideration and I wasn't - aka, waitlist.

Aside from perhaps the HHMI Cloister program:

I do not believe you can really draw a difference between the prestige of one program versus another.

It probably has ultimately more to do with the research mentor that you choose.

I think it would be way more prestigious to work for a nobel laurete or member of the national academy of sciences at ut southwestern (insert other top tier lesser known school) than to perhaps work for an associate professor at harvard/hopkins/ucsf (insert other top tier well known school). Just a possible example, but I believe the mentor (prob. a person who will write a letter for you) matters more.

I don't really understand why the Cloister program is so "prestigious". Their acceptance rate is about the same as the CRTP, and it's arguably much harder to get a DD fellowship b/c they have considerably fewer spaces. I doubt the candidates that get the Cloister are considerably better applicants than those in the other programs. Is it just because the program is affiliated with HHMI, or because it has been around longer?

I think what matters most is having a productive year and getting a good letter, which I believe can be done in pretty much any of the programs - you just have to select your mentor/lab wisely. In addition, as I stated above, not all the well-known institutions necessarily have strong departments in ALL areas, and some of the not-top institutions have great departments in certain areas (ie, Iowa has a fabulous ophtho dept).

Originally Posted by diosa428

I don't really understand why the Cloister program is so "prestigious". Their acceptance rate is about the same as the CRTP

At the CRTP dinner, they mentioned that they get ~90 applicants, interview ~60 and 30 participate in the program. However, they said that if you get to the point that they interview you, you will likely be accepted due to the fact that many turn down their offers. So your chances are ~2/3.

HHMI gets ~160 applicants, interview ~80 for 42 spots, but has a very short waitlist due to the fact that few applicants turn down their offer. So your chances are 1/4.

Originally Posted by diosa428

and it's arguably much harder to get a DD fellowship b/c they have considerably fewer spaces.

DD offers a minimum of 60 spots every year, but recently there have been many more than that. Their size is about double HHMI.

Originally Posted by diosa428

I doubt the candidates that get the Cloister are considerably better applicants than those in the other programs. Is it just because the program is affiliated with HHMI, or because it has been around longer?

It's important to remember that HHMI takes applications from Dental schools and vet schools as well. Besides that, they take 2nd year applicants, unlike CRTP and several DD sites. Some schools, including mine, prescreen HHMI applicants before allowing them to submit their applications for the program.

Originally Posted by diosa428

I think what matters most is having a productive year and getting a good letter, which I believe can be done in pretty much any of the programs - you just have to select your mentor/lab wisely. In addition, as I stated above, not all the well-known institutions necessarily have strong departments in ALL areas, and some of the not-top institutions have great departments in certain areas (ie, Iowa has a fabulous ophtho dept).

I couldn't agree more with you on this. All of the programs offer you the chance to succeed. The year is what you make of it. And yeah, Iowa has top Ortho, Ophtho, and ENT programs and the nicest lab facilities I've ever seen at a medical school.

Originally Posted by thesauce

DD offers a minimum of 60 spots every year, but recently there have been many more than that. Their size is about double HHMI.

That's only true if you assume that every candidate applies to every DD program. The individual programs each have <10 spots, so if you only apply to one, it's more competitive.

Originally Posted by thesauce

It's important to remember that HHMI takes applications from Dental schools and vet schools as well. Besides that, they take 2nd year applicants, unlike CRTP and several DD sites. Some schools, including mine, prescreen HHMI applicants before allowing them to submit their applications for the program.

I still don't understand why it's more "prestigious"... what difference does it make how many types of applicants they take?

Originally Posted by diosa428

That's only true if you assume that every candidate applies to every DD program. The individual programs each have <10 spots, so if you only apply to one, it's more competitive.

True. But few people apply to only 1 program and the ones that do are showing commitment to a program and are more likely to be selected for a spot.

Besides that, I think it would be a serious error in judgement to apply to only 1 program without some strong indication beforehand that you'll be accepted. You could really screw yourself over. It's best to apply broadly if you really want a spot.

Originally Posted by diosa428

I still don't understand why it's more "prestigious"... what difference does it make how many types of applicants they take?

Per a dental student that is a current fellow: most of the dental (and now vet) students that apply are interviewed, bumping out the med students for interview spots. It's just one more level of competition. Based on your statement from before you clearly believe the higher the competition, the higher the prestige. And I agree with you for the most part.

But I think the real reason is simple: Why is Harvard more prestigious? Money. Why is HHMI more prestigious? Same reason. Their endowment is in the 20 billion dollar range. Dwarfing CRTP and DD.

Originally Posted by thesauce

True. But few people apply to only 1 program and the ones that do are showing commitment to a program and are more likely to be selected for a spot.

Besides that, I think it would be a serious error in judgement to apply to only 1 program without some strong indication beforehand that you'll be accepted. You could really screw yourself over. It's best to apply broadly if you really want a spot.

Lol. I only applied to the UTSW DD. I have a condo in Dallas, so I am sort of committed to stay here. The director (who is the dean of medical student research of the school) told me I was putting myself in a bad situation by only applying to one program. Good thing I got in .

Originally Posted by StartingLine3

Lol. I only applied to the UTSW DD. I have a condo in Dallas, so I am sort of committed to stay here. The director (who is the dean of medical student research of the school) told me I was putting myself in a bad situation by only applying to one program. Good thing I got in .

Congrats! I love Dallas and UTSW seems like a great program.

I'm glad it worked out for you and it illustrates my point. Everyone has different priorities and obviously one of yours is staying put. Showing commitment to one program has given your application preference over others. I spoke to the head of that program (McPhaul) early last week and he let me know that out of the 8 spots offered, 6 were filled by people that would definately be taking his first round offers. These were the ones that only applied to UTSW or promised him that it was their #1 choice. He was on the lookout for 2 more applicants who would make the same commitment. He even asked me if I would to commit to going there if I got a first round acceptance.

He probably said you were putting yourself in a bad situation to further test your resolve. And you were rewarded with a spot.

Good luck to you!

Originally Posted by thesauce

Per a dental student that is a current fellow: most of the dental (and now vet) students that apply are interviewed, bumping out the med students for interview spots. It's just one more level of competition. Based on your statement from before you clearly believe the higher the competition, the higher the prestige. And I agree with you for the most part.

But I think the real reason is simple: Why is Harvard more prestigious? Money. Why is HHMI more prestigious? Same reason. Their endowment is in the 20 billion dollar range. Dwarfing CRTP and DD.

I guess what interests me about this is how quickly this thread disintegrated into "which program should I choose based on prestige" - reminds me of pre-allo and all the premeds deciding which school to choose based on USNWR rankings. What I'm trying to figure out is if this "prestige" thing is real - ie, when you apply to residency, are they actually going to be more impressed that you spent a year at the Cloisters vs CRTP. Because I honestly doubt it - a year of research is a year of research and they're going to be more interested in who you worked with, what your letter says, and whether or not you produced a publication. Of course, this is just my opinion, which is why I was asking about the prestige stuff.

This is my opinion about the "prestige" factor. Let me know if you disagree considerably with any particular point.

Some of this prestige is important for bragging to your friends, but that's about it. My parents have no idea what Cloister or HHMI is (they're not in the medical academic circle), so they would likely be more impressed by Harvard or Yale because they recognize the name. But for those people who will be making decisions about my future residency, etc., they will undoubtedly know that all these programs are great places to do research and will likely assume they are equally competitive (I know that is a loaded statement, sorry). But regardless of competitiveness, I hope the most value will go into the quality of my research and my productivity, which is not necessarily associated with the particular program or institution, but instead the mentor and research topic. Therefore the prestige factor is most likely going to depend on who you're doing research with and on what topic, not where and through what program.

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

Originally Posted by diosa428

I guess what interests me about this is how quickly this thread disintegrated into "which program should I choose based on prestige" - reminds me of pre-allo and all the premeds deciding which school to choose based on USNWR rankings. What I'm trying to figure out is if this "prestige" thing is real - ie, when you apply to residency, are they actually going to be more impressed that you spent a year at the Cloisters vs CRTP. Because I honestly doubt it - a year of research is a year of research and they're going to be more interested in who you worked with, what your letter says, and whether or not you produced a publication. Of course, this is just my opinion, which is why I was asking about the prestige stuff.

Who asked "which program should I choose based on prestige?" Someone asked which program was most prestigious, but that was probably just general curiosity.

We've discussed nearly every aspect of these program, including applications, competition, interviews, housing, mentors, environment, compensation, and now we're discussing prestige. It's a natural progression of topics.

Originally Posted by Dionysus

This is my opinion about the "prestige" factor. Let me know if you disagree considerably with any particular point.

Some of this prestige is important for bragging to your friends, but that's about it. My parents have no idea what Cloister or HHMI is (they're not in the medical academic circle), so they would likely be more impressed by Harvard or Yale because they recognize the name. But for those people who will be making decisions about my future residency, etc., they will undoubtedly know that all these programs are great places to do research and will likely assume they are equally competitive (I know that is a loaded statement, sorry). But regardless of competitiveness, I hope the most value will go into the quality of my research and my productivity, which is not necessarily associated with the particular program or institution, but instead the mentor and research topic. Therefore the prestige factor is most likely going to depend on who you're doing research with and on what topic, not where and through what program.

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

Even worse, I've had people talk down to me about "having" to take an extra year to complete medical school.

Originally Posted by thesauce

Who asked "which program should I choose based on prestige?" Someone asked which program was most prestigious, but that was probably just general curiosity.

We've discussed nearly every aspect of these program, including applications, competition, interviews, housing, mentors, environment, compensation, and now we're discussing prestige. It's a natural progression of topics.

Perhaps a "natural progression of topics" in the land of Type-A medical students. I guess I'm just sick of hearing about it since everyone at my school takes a year to do research or get a degree, and it's a hot topic now that everyone has their acceptances in hand. However, the actual point of my post was the following - regardless of WHY we're talking about it, I was just curious about what people's opinions were on HOW the prestige factor would actually impact our lives in the future.

Originally Posted by diosa428

Perhaps a "natural progression of topics" in the land of Type-A medical students. I guess I'm just sick of hearing about it since everyone at my school takes a year to do research or get a degree, and it's a hot topic now that everyone has their acceptances in hand. However, the actual point of my post was the following - regardless of WHY we're talking about it, I was just curious about what people's opinions were on HOW the prestige factor would actually impact our lives in the future.

Good call, I'm sick of talking about this too. Let's never say that word again. At least we've given the next application cycle something to think about when they comb through this thread next year.

Anyone hear from UNC DD?

anyone hear from columbia DD? I know some rejections went out..but haven't heard whether acceptances have gone out.

Originally Posted by stillastudent2

anyone hear from columbia DD? I know some rejections went out..but haven't heard whether acceptances have gone out.

Yeah someone I know got an acceptance. If you haven't heard yet, perhaps you're on a wait list?

Originally Posted by Dionysus

So I guess the point is who are you trying to impress with this prestige?

Not too keep this theme running, but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents (also not a response to any specific person, I just quoted Dionysus for continuity sake).

If you have no/little research experience and don't really know how to publish research - then the prestige of the program is probably most important. I think cloisters has a solid record in this regard - and their alumni tend to do quite well in obtaining elite residency spots.

However, if you do publish during your year or get to know a department at your DD (etc) site really well, it'll probably get you further than the cloisters name alone will. I imagine that having a productive research year anywhere looks about equally good (and trumps a less productive year). To that extent I think it makes sense to pick the program at which you feel you'd be most productive.

Alternate to the Cloister, anyone not accepting their spot?!

Doris Duke was the Paris Hilton of her time, but then Howard Hughes was a nut job too.

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??

Originally Posted by carrotbanana

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??

nothing yet. its a little annoying because im sure they gave out offers starting friday...a status update would have been nice. in any case, where is everyone going?

and for the utsw people, any further communication since friday? any idea on when we can expect more info (start dates, contracts, etc).

I'm pretty certain that columbia and mt sinai DD are both on a wait list. for other programs, no idea.

Originally Posted by carrotbanana

has anybody heard anything from harvard, hopkins, mt. sinai, unc or penn??

hi all new to the forum...wish i'd found this earlier...super helpful.

with regards to your question i know people who have been accepted to both unc and penn...not sure about the other schools

i'm an alternate at cloisters and haven't heard from dd unc, so i assume i'm on some sort of waitlist there too. i'm in at crtp, but strongly prefer cloisters or unc dd. anyone know how these waitlists work/move?

UNC sent out acceptances, but apparently hasn't heard back from half of the people yet.

Colombia also sent out acceptances.

Hopefully people will start deciding so we can see some movement off of the waitlists! I hope!

Originally Posted by kittykatt999

hi all new to the forum...wish i'd found this earlier...super helpful.

with regards to your question i know people who have been accepted to both unc and penn...not sure about the other schools

i'm an alternate at cloisters and haven't heard from dd unc, so i assume i'm on some sort of waitlist there too. i'm in at crtp, but strongly prefer cloisters or unc dd. anyone know how these waitlists work/move?

Cloister decisions must be submitted by April 4th, so latest should be after then?

Hi,

I am basically posting so that people can PM if they have questions about the Cloister program, because I spent 2006-2007 there. I am currently a third year med student. From my experience in talking to other applicants, most people who apply to multiple programs tend to prefer the Cloister as their top choice, so I would imagine the waiting list doesn't move as much as DD or the CRTP waitlist. I think a big advantage to the Cloister program is that you get to live with the other scholars and really get to know them well. Also, the Monday night lecture series (where internationally recognized scientists come discuss their research and pathways to success) is amazing. While I was at the Cloister, I probably met around 10 nobel laureates. Ultimately though, each program has their own strengths and weaknesses. I am willing to bet that 10 to 15 years post "research year" grads of all the programs are doing equally well and equally successful.