Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

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(see an acronym you don't know, scroll down to the next post and there is an acronym list)

EDIT: 2-5-2011 The ASR program no longer has funding and is not taking new students. By all accounts it will not return.

EDIT: If you want to talk to a recruiter, make a post on the thread saying what state your med school is in. Someone in this thread will hook you up.

I am going to try to summarize the Army National Guard’s new ASR program in this post. I’ll take feedback and input from others. And maybe add a FAQ after this. If you want more information see this thread.

The new program that the Army National Guard (ARNG) is offering started in April 08. It is called the AMEDD Student Recruiter (ASR). This post is concerned mainly with this program but I will mention some of the other programs the ARNG offers.

You join as a medical student and go in as a 2LT (O-1). You then get an ASR control # and get orders for Active Duty for Special Work (ADSW). Your orders are to do well in med school and to be a recruiter for the ARNG. You are at this point an active duty soldier. You have all the benefits and pay as a full time army 2LT. You can be on ADSW orders for a max of 1094 days (3 years). If you join as a freshman this means your 4th year you won’t get paid as an active duty soldier but you will be paid for weekend drills and summer drill if you attend (and maybe if you don’t?). You can also choose to take the STRAP stipend (see below) your senior year.

The amount you get paid while on ADSW depends on where you live and if you have dependants. As a 2LT you get monthly:

• $2,655 basic pay
• $223 BAS - basic assistance for subsistence (TAX FREE)
• $1,032 BAH – Basic assistance for housing w/ dependants (TAX FREE) **Based on school located in Erie, PA
• $841 BAH – Basic assistance for housing w/o dependants (TAX FREE) **Based on school located in Erie, PA
• So with dependants and living in Erie, PA you would get $46,920 a year with a good portion of it being tax free.
• If you attend officer basic course while in school, you are eligible for promotion to 1LT after 18 months of service. Your pay would go up to above $55,000 a year based on the same above info.
• While on ADSW you also get free Tricare health insurance for you and your family. You also receive all the benefits that active duty military receive.

The ASR program is not a scholarship and will not pay for your school. There is federal tuition assistance of up to $4500 a year that may add time to your obligation. There may be additional programs that your state offers to pay for tuition. Check with your state’s recruiter to see if you are eligible for any of this money.

Obligation: You have an 8 year obligation from the day you swear in. Six of the eight years must be spend in the ARNG on drilling status and 2 can be spent on Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR). Getting out of the ARNG and going on IRR might not be a good idea. If you are deployed while on IRR, the policies that applied to you in the ARNG no longer protect you.

What do I do while I’m in the Guard? While on ADSW you will do well in school and tell people about the guard and refer them to your recruiter. You might have to attend a couple conferences and wear either your uniform or a polo shirt with the guard logo on it. The entire time you are in the guard you are supposed to attend drill 1 Sat/Sun a month and 15 days in the summer. Drill for doctors means mostly physicals. There is a federal policy called FLEX that says that the guard has to be flexible with Med students and residents schedules. Once you're past residency the FLEX doesn't apply. This means if you have a conflict (exam, studying, clinic, whatever) with a scheduled drill weekend then you just call your CO and tell him why you can’t make it. You may or may not be expected to make up missed time, this is up to your state surgeon.

Residency: You apply for a civilian residency in the Match like everyone else. You don’t have to apply to military residencies like the HPSP. If you match in a program in a different state you can transfer to that state’s guard or elect to stay in your home state’s guard and you must continue to drill at least 1 time each quarter with your home guard.

Deployments: You can not be deployed while in medical school. You can not be deployed while you are an intern. Current policy says that you will not be deployed PGY2-5. Deployment status is a good thing to discuss with your state's command on the front end so everyone is clear. Current policy says that ARNG doctors deployments are limited to 90 days ‘boots on ground’. You may be deployed as frequent as 18 months apart following residency completion. You may be deployable if you do a fellowship but this is considered on a case by case basis.

The guard has a few other often discussed incentives that I will mention here. Incentives typically add to your commitment length. (benefits do not).

• STRAP - $1907/mo stipend while in med school or residency. It has a 2:1 payback (if you take 4 years of STRAP you owe 8 years after you quit taking it). This can not be taken while on ADSW. This can not be taken along with special pay.
• $75,000 specialty choice bonus – If you are pursuing a career in one of the specialties below, you are eligible for the Guard's Healthcare Professional Bonus. If you commit to a three-year service agreement with the Guard, you can receive a $75,000 bonus, paid over the course of the three years at $25,000 per year. This appears to be a 1:1 commitment for each year that you take the 25k bonus.
• $50,000 loan repayment – Healthcare Professional Loan Repayment Program (HPLRP). Healthcare providers in the specialties listed below can receive up to $50,000 in loan repayment assistance by agreeing to a three-year service commitment with the Guard. The HPLRP pays a maximum of $20,000 toward your qualified student loan for the first two years, with the final $10,000 paid in your final year. Starting your second year of residency, you can take the HPLRP and STRAP (above) concurrently.

Currently the specialties that are eligable for the 50k loan repayment and 75k bonus are listed here.

• Orthopedic Surgery
• Family Practice
• Emergency Medicine
• Internal Medicine
• Subspecialties of Internal Medicine:
  • Preventive Medicine
  • Gastroenterology
  • Cardiology
  • Endocrinology
  • Nephrology
  • Medical Oncology/Hematology
  • Infectious Disease
  • Pulmonary Disease
  • Rheumatology

FAQ:

What's the difference between the Army National Guard and the full time Army?

• The Army National Guard has a dual role. This means you are an element of the army reserves and can be called up by the President. You also have a state mission and can be called up by the governor for disaster relief or anything else the state would need you for. Since $ for the ARNG comes from both the federal and state governments, the programs and culture of each state's guard might be vastly different. This is an important point. Spend some time around docs in your state's guard before you sign.

What kind of differences can I expect from state to state?

• I would imagine they could be drastic. Your state may want you to wear your uniform every day to school. They may treat your drill responsibilities differently while in school. The Flexi-Training (once every three months) is approved nationally for the National Guard but is up to the discretion of the CO. It's something worth asking about directly to your CO-to-be before putting your name on the dotted line.

If I join when I enter med school and then do a 4 or 5 year residency, does this mean my obligation would be up before I ever become deployable?

• It would appear so. However, DO NOT join any branch of the military unless you are prepared to deploy. The military has a reputation of getting more out of you than you expect to give up front.

Will the Guard tell me where to live and relocate me every 3-4 years?

• Unlike the full time Army, in the ARNG you are a civilian and a part time soldier. You can live where you want as long as you are able to attend drill in your state. If you wish to move to another state you can transfer to that state's guard.

What about the air national guard?

• The Air National Guard (ANG) does not currently have a ASR program. If you want to know more about opportunities in the the ANG see this post.

How does the ASR program affect my financial aid eligibility?

• The money for the ASR program is not a scholarship. They are just paying you as a soldier. You have to claim the income on your FAFSA and it may affect your expected family contribution. You can still barrow money to pay for school and cost of attendance based upon what your FAFSA results allow. Contrast this to the HPSP where all the money they give you counts as financial aid. With the HPSP, the stipend is often higher than the cost of living budget set by your school which means you can not get any financial aid other than your HPSP money.

What's this CME trip stuff about?

• The Army will reimburse it's medical personnel to attend a CME conference once a year. You should check with your state but as a medical student I am eligible to use this money subject to approval. A trip can be reimbursed up to $2500. Details are somewhat complicated but essentially you are reimbursed for travel, hotel, registration, and even get a daily per diem to cover food and what not. I am trying to figure out if this can be used to pay for a Step 1 course but have yet to get an answer.

I'm prior service, will I still go in as an O-1?

• See this post.

Is the retirement the same in the Guard as it is in the full service Army?

• No. It goes something like this. You earn points for every day you spend active and also you get 15 points each year free. You have to get 50 points in a given year for that year to count as a retirement year. Once you earn 20 retirement years you have become eligible for retirement benefits. Unlike the full service army you can't receive retirement benefits until you turn 60. The amount of your retirement pay is a % of your base pay when you retire. The % is somewhat complicated but is essentially (your total points / 360) * 50%.

What if I can't fit officer basic course in my schedule until after I graduate?

• If you have a schedule that won't allow you to go to OBC you don't have to. The catch is you won't be eligible for promotion and possibly other consequences of not having completed OBC. You should get OBC out of the way as soon as you can.

Will the ARNG pay for my tuition?

• There is federal money that can help. You can get, if you qualify, up to $4500 a year towards tuition by the Federal Tuition Assistance (FTA) program. There is also the GI bill that you may qualify for once you complete OBLC. Some states have additional money you may be eligible for, this link may be helpful.

This sounds too good to be true.

• The ASR program has a lot of financial benefit to med students with much less commitment post residency than HPSP. If you are married with children it is a much better fit when it comes to lifestyle and especially not having to relocate. It almost sounds too good to be true. So why are they offering so much and asking for little in return? The answer I have heard from my recruiter and on this board is that the ARNG is having a hard time recruiting recently. They hope that they can get med students in the guard and they will stay in until retirement. There are further incentives (75k speciality bonus and 50k loan repayment) that they hope you will take at the end of residency. The also hope that you will like the guard enough to stay in until retirement. The guard is trying to kick start their med school recruiting. Caveat emptor. (editorial: The guard used to recruit med students extremely well in my state and haven't signed in a med student in years.)

Is it hard to get in?

• To join the guard you have to pass 3 boards. The USAREC board, the AMEDD board, and a state board. Once you are in you apply for a spot in the ASR program. As I understand it they do not reject applicants, they take the first 200 each year (the military year begins 1 OCT). If you apply for an ASR spot and they're already full then you are put on the list to get one when the next fiscal year begins 1 OCT.

How about an acronym list?

• MSO = Military Serivce Obligation. This is how many years you owe the military in total. For military officers who first sign up, it is always 8 years.
• Active Duty Army = Full-time Army. National Guardsmen are only Active Duty when they are called up and deployed (like for 90 days in Iraq) or for a program like ASR, when you are what is called ADSW.
• ADSW = Active Duty Special Work. You are not deployed, but are pulling a full time officer salary for the National Guard. Usually, it is for a more traditional job when the National Guard needs a full-time employee for a while. For the ASR program, you are ADSW, but your assignment is to attend medical school and spread the word.
• ADOS = Active Duty for Operational Support. This is the term that is replacing ADSW, they are currently used interchangeably.
• AGR = Active Guard Reserve. These are the vast majority of the full time soldiers in the guard. They are either title 10 or 32, and I can't explain that any better at this point.
• Drilling Status = the traditional one weekend per month, two weeks per year that folks in the National Guard do to fulfill their commitment.
• Flexi-Training = during residency, you have the option of doing flexi-training, which is one weekend every three months rather than the traditional one weekend every month. This is up to the discretion of your CO.
• IRR = Individual Ready Reserve. This is when you are no longer drilling or have any association with the military other than to let them know where you live. You do not work, you do not drill. But in times of national emergencies, you can be activated by the Army. The only times folks have been activated from IRR since Vietnam was the Gulf War (in which only a small number were activated) and the current wars (in which a hell of a lot have been activated). To my knowledge, I don't believe any physicians have been pulled in off of IRR in either conflict.
• OBLC = Officer Basic Leadership Course. This used to be called OBC (officer basic course) but was recently lengthened and changed. It's the first training you must complete when you join.
• ARNG = Army National Guard
• ANG = Air National Guard
• NGB = National Guard Bureau. The federal centralized body of the national guard. This is where the ASR $ comes from.
• AMEDD = Army Medical Dept
  
  

Just some additional info. As EMH mentioned, the bonus and loan repayment are available for specialties that the guard deems desirable. This may change subject to the needs of the guard, but at this time, those specialties include:

• Orthopedic Surgery
• Family Practice
• Emergency Medicine
• Internal Medicine
• Subspecialties of Internal Medicine:
  • Preventive Medicine
  • Gastroenterology
  • Cardiology
  • Endocrinology
  • Nephrology
  • Medical Oncology/Hematology
  • Infectious Disease
  • Pulmonary Disease
  • Rheumatology

In reference to the obligation incurred by taking these programs:

75k bonus: If you are pursuing a career in one of the specialties below, you are eligible for the Guard's Healthcare Professional Bonus. If you commit to a three-year service agreement with the Guard, you can receive a $75,000 bonus, paid over the course of the three years at $25,000 per year.
this appears to be a 1:1 commitment for each year that you take the 25k bonus.

Loan Repayment: The Army National Guard can help wipe that concern away with our Healthcare Professional Loan Repayment Program (HPLRP). Healthcare providers in the specialties listed below can receive up to $50,000 in loan repayment assistance by agreeing to a three-year service commitment with the Guard. The HPLRP pays a maximum of $20,000 toward your qualified student loan for the first two years, with the final $10,000 paid in your final year.

Great idea to start this thread EMH. The info about the ASR has been scrambled between the "nat guard instead of hpsp" and the "best mil deal ever" threads and this thread will hopefully make the information readily accessible. kudos.

this would be a great thread to add to the "HPSP, USUHS, FAP threads" sticky when its all info'ed up.

Great job EMH! Each state may be a little different with regard to drill weekends. In Pennsylvania, ASRs drill one weekend every three months, and they are very flexible. For example; at LECOM, there will soon be 4 of us and our drill will consist of on-campus meetings about recruiting.

Originally Posted by amindwalker

Great job EMH! Each state may be a little different with regard to drill weekends. In Pennsylvania, ASRs drill one weekend every three months, and they are very flexible. For example; at LECOM, there will soon be 4 of us and our drill will consist of on-campus meetings about recruiting.

The Flexi-Training (once every three months) is approved nationally for the National Guard but is up to the discretion of the CO. It's something worth asking about directly to your CO-to-be before putting your name on the dotted line.

Great Faq EMH!!!

BTW, I always hear Robert Picardo's voice when I read your posts .

Originally Posted by amindwalker

BTW, I always hear Robert Picardo's voice when I read your posts .

Originally Posted by amindwalker

Great Faq EMH!!!

Ditto. Nice work, EMH. I would have saved my recruiter a 45 minute phone call if I'd seen this ahead of time....

Originally Posted by amindwalker

Great job EMH! Each state may be a little different with regard to drill weekends. In Pennsylvania, ASRs drill one weekend every three months, and they are very flexible. For example; at LECOM, there will soon be 4 of us and our drill will consist of on-campus meetings about recruiting.

would you mind going into how the 2 weeks a year ends up working out? Do you still get the Flex training after ASR when youre just regular guard or how can you find 2 weeks off if youre in the middle of residency/fellowship/attending...thanks for humoring me =D

In the PA Guard, docs (including residents) can break up and spread out their 2 week annual training. A Family Practice doc in private practice works for 3 weeks to pay his/her overhead and the 4th week for his/her wages. Such individuals can't afford to take 2 weeks off, especially in the same month. The Guard knows that. They also understand about residency. Obviously an infantry Colonel might not get it or give a flying rat's ass, so just make sure that once ASR ends for you (at graduation), you get assigned to a medical unit (preferably one with real doctors in it).

Originally Posted by amindwalker

In the PA Guard, docs (including residents) can break up and spread out their 2 week annual training. A

cool

Quick clarification regarding the residency choices: If an ASR graduate chooses a residency that is not on the 'desirable' list for ARNG, is it only necessary that he/she be passed off to Army Reserves if he/she wants to pursue additional incentives? My recruiter stated that most Guard docs deploy to fill a role as a very general medical officer, so unless you are specialized in something the army direly needs or a EM, you do pretty much the same things. To clarify, if I one day strike an interest in anesthesia but don't want the STRAP/loan repayment/etc, can I stay in the Guard or do I have to transfer to Reserves?

Also, does Army Reserve maintain the same '90 days boots on ground' policy for docs?

I was originally planning on anesthesia when I joined the Guard and my chain of command was well aware of it. They planned to put me in a flight surgeon slot during and after residency, so it seems to me that they believed that I could stay in the Guard as a gas passer, but the STRAP stipend would not be an option. I am now planning on internal medicine so it's no longer an issue for me.

I have been told by a reliable source that the Army reserve does indeed also have the 90 days boots on the ground rule for docs.

Originally Posted by amindwalker

, but the STRAP stipend would not be an option.

and the 75k bonus - which is a huge bummer

Someone who is not on active duty orders or not being paid by the recruitment and retention command (meaning not me, of course) might recommend the following;

If you are planning to go into a specialty that is not on the Guard's list of needed specialties (like say, anesthesia), join the Guard and do ASR. Then just switch to the reserves and take the STRAP stipend, the sign-on bonus, and the loan repayment (you can't take them concurrently, but can take them consecutively).

I of course can not make such a recommendation, you understand. If however, someone were to pursue such a course of action, it would be ideal to do so with full disclosure.

I assume MD/PhD students are not eligible for this?

Can anyone comment on the VA benefits aspect of the program?

National Guard members are usually not eligible for VA Benefits unless they have "veteran status", which is established by active service of at least 90 days and a discharge or release by any condition other than dishonorable.

I'm curious how this applies to ASR folks. Are you eligible after you're released from your 3 year active duty component? Another website that had more detail mentioned the active duty component as "only if the President activated them for federal duty."

If anyone has asked their recruiter this and could let me know, I'd appreciate it. If the active duty component qualifies you for VA benefits, this is another nice set of perks you'll enjoy later.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Can anyone comment on the VA benefits aspect of the program?

I was told today that yes, ADSW for 90 days does qualify you for VA benefits. I was also told that once you complete OBC you are eligible for the GI bill.

Originally Posted by EMH

I was told today that yes, ADSW for 90 days does qualify you for VA benefits. I was also told that once you complete OBC you are eligible for the GI bill.

I have also heard this is true...I go to officer training this year, I'll let you know if I get the GI bill.

Originally Posted by iatrosB

I have also heard this is true...I go to officer training this year, I'll let you know if I get the GI bill.

Now, the logical next question is this: if you get veteral status and get the GI Bill, have provisions been made yet to use the monies during residency? You could get the full $1,100/month (?) during the old GI Bill. I wonder if you can with the new one?

The new GI Bill (Chapter 33 "Post 9/11" GI Bill) is for people who served on active duty since 9/11. Serving for at least 90 days (not including entry training and probably not including annual tours) will get you 40% of the benefit. 24 months of active duty will get you 80% of the benefit (and allow you to begin to count active duty time for training), and 36 months of active duty time will get you 100% benefits. I would imagine that your ADSW program will get you 24 months. One downside is that since, the tuition is paid directly to the school, instead of the student, it is doubtful that you will be able to use it during residency. On the off chance that you can use it, you will only get the BAH portion of it.

Originally Posted by del Sol DOHC

One downside is that since, the tuition is paid directly to the school, instead of the student, it is doubtful that you will be able to use it during residency.

For activated NG, you do not get the benefit until after you are released from active duty status. So no one an ASR would get GI Bill for tuition. What I'm curious about is whether it can be applied to residency. If it can't be, the new GI Bill is actually much worse for ASR than the old GI Bill would have been. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Originally Posted by EMH

Deployments: You can not be deployed while in medical school. You can not be deployed while you are a resident. Current policy says that ARNG doctors deployments are limited to 90 days ‘boots on ground’. You may be deployable if you do a fellowship but this is considered on a case by case basis.

According to my recruiter you are definitely deployable while a resident. He says the military considers you a qualified physician as soon as you graduate from medical school, which is why you get the promotion to Captain. I have also spoken with 2 docs who were in the guard and deployed as residents. One had to extend his residency to make up for the time he spent in Iraq. However, it also sounds like the State Surgeon may be able to help stabilize you during residency if he or she so desires.

I would not expect to get through an entire residency without being deployed at least once.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

According to my recruiter you are definitely deployable while a resident. He says the military considers you a qualified physician as soon as you graduate from medical school, which is why you get the promotion to Captain. I have also spoken with 2 docs who were in the guard and deployed as residents. One had to extend his residency to make up for the time he spent in Iraq. However, it also sounds like the State Surgeon may be able to help stabilize you during residency if he or she so desires.

I would not expect to get through an entire residency without being deployed at least once.

perhaps in the regular guard but perhaps not through the ASR program? if your recruiter knows about the ASR and said this in regards to the program let us know

The recruiter I talked to made the statement about being a qualified physician in the context of a discussion about ASR. If being deployed during residency would be a deal breaker for you, then you need to ask an AMEDD recruiter the question directly and try to obtain an Army National Guard document that backs up the claim.

The doctors I talked to who were deployed during residency joined before the ASR program existed. No matter what program you sign up for, I think it would be prudent to consider yourself deployable as soon as you have an MD and then consider yourself very lucky if you get through residency without deployment.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

If being deployed during residency would be a deal breaker for you, then you need to ask an AMEDD recruiter the question directly and try to obtain an Army National Guard document that backs up the claim.

That's a very sensible idea. I am the cautious type so months ago I did just that.

I am looking at a memorandum with the subject: Exemption Policy from Involuntary Mobilization for Reserve Component (RC) Army Medical Deparmtent (AMEDD) Officers Participating in Health Professional Programs.

It says that it is "granting a blanket exemption from the current Partial Mobilization and Presidential Reserve Call-Ups for the individuals listed in paragraph 4. Individuals qualifying for this exemption are not required to submit requests for this exemption. Individuals may be involuntarily mobilized upon completion of their specified training program. If their training permits, these individuals may volunteer for active duty." (bold is mine)

Paragraph 4 states "This policy applies to RC AMEDD Officers participating in the following progrms:" it goes on to list STRAP and then part b. includes "RC AMEDD Officers participating in a civilian Graduate Medical Education Training Program approved by the Department of Army as follows: (1) Medical, Dental and Surgical Residents."

It also lists "(3) Medical and Surgical Fellows should be considered on a case-by-case basis." Good luck with that one, though.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

The doctors I talked to who were deployed during residency joined before the ASR program existed.

Yeah, if you're in the general Guard, undergrad/med school/residency won't protect you from deployment unless you are in a pre-approved program that ultimately is going to obligate you for more Guard time (ASR, STRAP, etc.)

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

No matter what program you sign up for, I think it would be prudent to consider yourself deployable as soon as you have an MD and then consider yourself very lucky if you get through residency without deployment.

No. Technically, you are deployable immediately. You just have policies and guarantees to the contrary.

The policy I quoted above can be changed at any time by needs of the Army. Right now they are not pulling docs out of residency or med students out of medical school. But if they really wanted to, they could modify that policy with the flick of the pen. They could also do away with the 90 days boots-in-sand policy. They could make active duty deployments for five years.

But you have to deal with probability. The odds of the National Guard changing their policy and pulling up folks on medical school deferrments is next to nil. The odds of them changing their policy and pulling up folks out of residency deferments is very low. The odds of you getting pulled up and deployed after residency? Don't know, but I'd imagine it's pretty good right now. In six years? Who knows?

Ultimately, if you want a 100% guarantee to go straight from medschool to finish your residency, don't join the military in any context. If you want a 99% guarantee, join the NG ASR program. If you want a 50-75% guarantee, take Army HPSP. If you want a 25-50% guarantee, take Navy HPSP.

But at the end of the day, once you sign your name on the rosters, you lose your ability to make any 100% guarantees. If you're not comfortable with that, stay away from the military in any context.

Good info notdeadyet, thanks. It is funny how simple it is to get conflicting information.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

I am looking at a memorandum with the subject: Exemption Policy from Involuntary Mobilization for Reserve Component (RC) Army Medical Deparmtent (AMEDD) Officers Participating in Health Professional Programs.

Was that memo made available by your recruiter? Is it available in PDF?

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Yeah, if you're in the general Guard, undergrad/med school/residency won't protect you from deployment unless you are in a pre-approved program that ultimately is going to obligate you for more Guard time (ASR, STRAP, etc.)

I'm not sure what you mean by "obligate you for more Guard time" with regard to ASR. My understanding is that the commitment is 8 years, the first 3 of which are paid active duty as a recruiter and the last 5 inactive unless called up for deployment. Can you explain where I am wrong?

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

Good info notdeadyet, thanks. It is funny how simple it is to get conflicting information.

Ain't that the truth. It seems to be true of the military in general, but especially with a program as new as ASR.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

Was that memo made available by your recruiter? Is it available in PDF?

I'd contact Joe Guerriero at jmgue-at-beld.net. He's the recruiter I've been working with. Very honest and will take the time to walk you through the whole program. If he doesn't know the answer off the top of his head (and I asked some pretty detailed minutia, like how is Child Psych handled as it is a combined residency-fellowship), he says, "I don't know" and finds the answer for you. I can't recommend him enough.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

I'm not sure what you mean by "obligate you for more Guard time" with regard to ASR.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that if you go into med school as a member of the National Guard, you can be called up for deployment unless you're specifically in a program which will sheild you from deploying but necessarily incur more Guard time, such as if you sign up for ASR and owe the 8 year MSO.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

My understanding is that the commitment is 8 years, the first 3 of which are paid active duty as a recruiter and the last 5 inactive unless called up for deployment.

I'll let someone else answer this. I was looking at National Guard for the long haul. I had it in my head somewhere that of the 8 year MSO, 6 years of it had to be served either active or drilling status (1 weekend/month, 2 weeks/year) and 2 years could be inactive reserve. I didn't sweat it too much because your time in medical school and residency counts towards that 6 years, so even if you wanted to get out ASAP, you'd have your six done by the time you finished even a three year residency.

Can anyone comment if I'm pulling the 6 year figure out of the ether? It's a distinct possibility...

Part of the problem is that each state has different policies. My state gave me a memo from the state surgeon saying they will not deploy you during residency. I asked him and my recruiter this question directly more than one time and they said no. I also asked a doc in the guard who said that the docs/nurses look out for each other and in the past have spoke up for an RN who was in PA school when they tried to deploy him. I guess someone else went but the person got to complete PA school. This may differ state to state.

I will correct the FAQ this weekend when I get a chance.

Originally Posted by EMH

My state gave me a memo from the state surgeon saying they will not deploy you during residency. I asked him and my recruiter this question directly more than one time and they said no.

I would think the state surgeon would be promising not to deploy you for when the Guard operates under state control, right? I can see how this would vary from state to state. And it's pretty relevant. If your state didn't have this promise and you live in a natural disaster-prone area, you could feasibly be pulled out during residency.

But I would think that for whether or not you were pulled out of residency under federal orders (such as a trip to Iraq), you'd want a federal mandate. The memo I quoted above for not deploying during residency for federal reasons was from the Surgeon General. I can't see how a state could override this to activate someone for federal duty if it is in contrast to federal policy.

If I'm mistaken, please correct me. I'd be curious to hear.

Notdeadyet,

I'm curious to know about the answer you received to how Child Psych is handled.

I'm waiting to hear back about the NHSC Scholarship, but if that doesn't work out for me I'm for sure going to try and take advantage of the National Guard's program. General Psych and Child Psych are both strong areas of interest to me. Any insights would be appreciated!

Originally Posted by NORCAL

I'm curious to know about the answer you received to how Child Psych is handled.

I was told by a recruiter (though not through my regular recruiter) that you will not be activated until you complete your residency. If you do a four year psychiatry program, complete it, and decide on doing a 2 year Child Psych fellowship, you can be activated during the two year fellowship.

That said, if you decide to do Child Psych early in your Psych residency and do the combined five year Adult/Child program, you will not be. The logic is that you can not be activated because you will not be board eligible in either until your five years are up and you are eligible for both. Does this make sense?
I

Originally Posted by NORCAL

'm waiting to hear back about the NHSC Scholarship, but if that doesn't work out for me I'm for sure going to try and take advantage of the National Guard's program. General Psych and Child Psych are both strong areas of interest to me.

With the NHSC scholarship, unless things have changed in teh two years since I looked into it, you will not be allowed to do the Child component straight away, as it is considered a fellowship. You would be required to do the four year general psych program, then do your four years of NHSC service, then can go back to do the two year Child fellowship. NHSC scholars are not allowed to do any fellowship training until their four year commitment is paid off.

That was the rule two years ago, and I doubt they've changed, but I'd verify.

Originally Posted by mddrdoc

I'm not sure what you mean by "obligate you for more Guard time" with regard to ASR. My understanding is that the commitment is 8 years, the first 3 of which are paid active duty as a recruiter and the last 5 inactive unless called up for deployment. Can you explain where I am wrong?

In regards to what notdeadyet meant by "obligate you for more Guard time", there are programs (listed in the FAQ section of this thread) such as STRAP (a stipend during residency) or a 75K Specialty Bonus (after you graduate med school) that you can take from the Guard. If you decide to take the 75k bonus, for example, the catch is you add three more years of service onto your obligation. Thats what he meant by the quoted statement. If you want to be one-and-done though, you dont need to take these optional programs and can leave in your 8 (although i think there is definitely drilling time after you initial 3 year recruiting active duty status...not just inactive reserve)

Well, the ASR finally made the National Guard website:

http://www.1800goguard.com/explore/medical/asrinfo.php

Looks like it's finally legit.

Originally Posted by iatrosB

Well, the ASR finally made the National Guard website:

http://www.1800goguard.com/explore/medical/asrinfo.php

Looks like it's finally legit.

Good stuff. That's got to make the job a little easier on the recruiters than when they try to sign someone up for 8 years for a program that has no brochures and no mention anywhere on the web.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Good stuff. That's got to make the job a little easier on the recruiters than when they try to sign someone up for 8 years for a program that has no brochures and no mention anywhere on the web.

That's what I thought...I had to think long and hard when all I was dealing with were random office memos for "proof" the program exists.

Quick question that occurred to me:

If you're considered activated during med school for your ASR duties, are you eligible to do elective rotations at military bases during your fourth year? My recruiter wasn't sure about that one.

Ironically, one of the reasons I want to go the NG route instead of active duty is my discomfort at much of military GME, but I wouldn't mind a rotation or two.

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Quick question that occurred to me:

If you're considered activated during med school for your ASR duties, are you eligible to do elective rotations at military bases during your fourth year? My recruiter wasn't sure about that one.

Ironically, one of the reasons I want to go the NG route instead of active duty is my discomfort at much of military GME, but I wouldn't mind a rotation or two.

No kidding...I wouldn't mind a rotation at Trippler...in Hawaii!!

Originally Posted by notdeadyet

Quick question that occurred to me:

If you're considered activated during med school for your ASR duties, are you eligible to do elective rotations at military bases during your fourth year? My recruiter wasn't sure about that one.

Ironically, one of the reasons I want to go the NG route instead of active duty is my discomfort at much of military GME, but I wouldn't mind a rotation or two.

i'll second that.

Me three.

These ARNG threads have recently been read by the AMEDD recruitment and Retention Command at National Guard Bureau in Washington, DC.

I have been instructed to post the following corrections;

1. HPLRP (loan repayment) and the special pay cannot be taken together

2. Starting your second year of residency, if enrolled in STRAP you can
receive HPLRP and the stipend concurrently.

3. 90 day BOG (boots on the ground) (AKA deployment) can be as frequent as 18 month apart following residency completion.

4. We are accepting 200 new ASR's annually not just 200 total...

5. Also and one of the most important. Doc's need to drill monthly not 1
drill every 3 months. There is a flex training policy, but it is primarily
for med students and residents and the State Surgeon sets the policy for
their state...

6. Service obligation: All officers incur an 8 yr MSO, 6 of which must be
spent in drilling status. 2 can be in the IRR
-no additional commitment for the ASR program
-MDSSP and Strap are both a 2 for 1 repayment following program
completion.

Please disregard any info to the contrary.

Originally Posted by amindwalker

These ARNG threads have recently been read by the AMEDD recruitment and Retention Command at National Guard Bureau in Washington, DC.

I have been instructed to post the following corrections;

The corrections have been made.

Originally Posted by amindwalker

2. Starting your second year of residency, if enrolled in STRAP you can
receive HPLRP and the stipend concurrently.

Really, how does this work? I believe that the HPLRP is paid back as you take it, so you could pay back the loan obligation time during residency? That'd be cool.

Originally Posted by DeadCactus

I assume MD/PhD students are not eligible for this?

Just a bump for the question, in case anyone jumping to the later part of the discussion knows.

I don't think there would be a problem for MD/PhD students, but I'll look into it. Is your MD tuition paid by the PhD part?

Originally Posted by amindwalker

I don't think there would be a problem for MD/PhD students, but I'll look into it. Is your MD tuition paid by the PhD part?

I think the ? comes from the extended amount of time you're a student.

Originally Posted by amindwalker

I don't think there would be a problem for MD/PhD students, but I'll look into it. Is your MD tuition paid by the PhD part?

Varies from program to program. Would be curious for the answer in both cases. Would be a sweet deal for funded MD/PhDs and a way to make unfunded MD/PhDs more economically viable.

But with the programs being 7 to 8 years long, it seems that the NG would not allow them in the program...

Originally Posted by amindwalker

5. Also and one of the most important. Doc's need to drill monthly not 1
drill every 3 months. There is a flex training policy, but it is primarily
for med students and residents and the State Surgeon sets the policy for
their state...

Thanks for the info.

If someone who finishes residency does a 3 month tour, does that enable him or her to miss drill weekends or a 2 week commitment for a period of time once they return home?

I am extremely interested in this program, as it seems to be a way better program than HPSP. So, if someone could answer this question definitively I would appreciate it:

So, if I sign up as a pre-M1, that would mean that until my M4 year I am on active duty, but non-deployable. My duties are basically to promote and recruit for the ARNG. I make around $45k a year, and drill once a month, although I basically drill when I can because of FLEX.

After those 3 years of active duty and graduation of med school, I go to a residency I choose, still make $45k a year on top of my residency pay, and am still non-deployable. FLEX is still in effect, so I drill when I can.

Assuming my residency is 4 years long, that would mean that my ASR commitment would be done as soon as I am done with residency.

I just have a hard time believing that if you simply do ASR, and do not participate in STRAP, etc. that you get paid $45k a year to simply recruit and drill whenever you can make time, and on top of that, are exempt from being deployed.

Am I missing something, because I'm close to signing the dotted line.