Heart Failure / Transplant Fellowships

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Hey,

I was wondering if I could get some help on making a list of Heart Failure/Transplant fellowships - level 3 taining. According to my local cards program director, there will be a new board for Heart Failure instituted sometime in the next 2 years. Which means, several programs will develop new 1 yr fellowships for HF.

What I want to do is establish a list of programs that are already going.

I am sure some programs have Level 3 training integrated in their fellowship programs to make you board eligible, so I need those too.

Here is what I got so far in random order - actual programs:

Vanderbilt University
Ohio State University
University of Cincinnati
Washington University
Cleveland Clinic
Emory University
Mayo Clinic - Rochester
University of Pittsburgh
Massachusetts General Hospital
Texas Heart
University of Wisconsin
University of Texas Medical Branch
University of Florida
UCLA
Brigham and Women’s Hospital
University of Pittsburgh
Stanford
Utah
UT Southwestern

Thanks.

ap

i'd add univ. of pittsburgh to that list - they actively run a chf/transplant fellowship. and it is a pretty large transplant center.

ok, nevermind...i missed it on your list!

Thanks, forgot about them, updated.

lol...i thought i was going crazy!

Stanford as well...

Is anyone at one of the 3 Harvard affiliated institutions currently? I heard rumblings about a year ago that it was going to be a combined program for HF/transplant between MGH, BID and BW?

Originally Posted by astropilot

a list of programs that are already going.

I am sure some programs have Level 3 training integrated in their fellowship programs to make you board eligible, so I need those too.ap

Do you mean level 3 in CHF? Because as your post stated, as of right NOW, there is no such thing as board certification in CHF, so right now, there is no such thing as "level 3" CHF.

But you are right some fellowships may allow you to incorporate CHF training into the proper fellowship, but more likely those are the 4 year fellowships.

Any program that does at least 15 transplants a year will have a CHF/transplant fellowship I would think. Go to http://www.optn.org/latestData/rptData.asp to help you find out what programs do that.

University of Utah / Intermountain has a CHF fellowship. As does UT Southwestern. I imagine UMichigan does. Probably UChicago. Maybe Northwestern. Probably UMinnesota. Also Wash U.

There is a level 3 for heart failure. Please see COCATS update from JACC Jan 22.

As for a HF/Tx programs, most of them are an extra year above and beyond the 3-4 yr cards fellowship but as another fellowship. But there are a few, as you said, that do integrate advanced training during the fellowship, albeit, making it a longer program.

Thanks for those editions and the link.

ap

Originally Posted by astropilot

There is a level 3 for heart failure. Please see COCATS update from JACC Jan 22.

As for a HF/Tx programs, most of them are an extra year above and beyond the 3-4 yr cards fellowship but as another fellowship. But there are a few, as you said, that do integrate advanced training during the fellowship, albeit, making it a longer program.

Thanks for those editions and the link.

ap

Gotcha.

Although, frankly, it has no practical value.

Originally Posted by Dreemer005

Is anyone at one of the 3 Harvard affiliated institutions currently? I heard rumblings about a year ago that it was going to be a combined program for HF/transplant between MGH, BID and BW?

Brigham and MGH each have separate HF/Transplant training programs (both 1 year), and I have not heard of any plans to merge them. The clinical expereince is generally 6 months transplant and 6 months CHF. Splitting the experience even further by dividing between 2 institutions doesn't really make sense. I am not aware of a HF/Tranplant program for BID. There has been a research fellowship at both BWH and MGH, but not a clinical fellowship.

There was talk several years ago about merging the general cardiology programs for MGH and BWH (promoted by Eugene Braunwald himself). The programs never merged completely, but the two have merged their first years together (so every fellow in both programs rotate through cath, ECHO, stepdown, CCU, preventative, etc. at both). The second year and afterwards, the fellows do dedicated work at their respective institutions.

I seem to remember that the referral patterns were such that all/most the transplant from BID went elsewhere (mostly NEMC/Tufts) as BID doesn't have a heart transplant program, and thus some of the advanced HF patients and VAD patients also didn't stay at BID. Can somebody confirm this?

Can anybody comment on how VAD training/experience gets integrated into HF/Tx training?

question about the list of heart failure fellowhip programs you have listed at the top of the thread..so are these before or after you finish a 3 year cards fellowship???

After

Some CHF programs will allow non-cardiology fellows to become CHF fellows (i.e. people out of IM residency).

In general, there is no specific requirment that a CHF fellow have completed cardiology fellowship first. Although obviously, a person cannot get a job as a heart failure specialist without completing a general cards fellowship.

There is a difference in regular CHF fellowships of old and CHF/Transplant fellowships which require a completed cardiology fellowship. In fact, I believe a majority of the old CHF fellowships are converting to CHF/transplant.

Originally Posted by astropilot

There is a difference in regular CHF fellowships of old and CHF/Transplant fellowships which require a completed cardiology fellowship. In fact, I believe a majority of the old CHF fellowships are converting to CHF/transplant.

Well, that may happen when a CHF fellowship becomes an ACGME accredited entity, but it's currently not the case. There are plenty of CHF/transplant fellowships that accept PGY4 candidates.

Originally Posted by tibor75

Well, that may happen when a CHF fellowship becomes an ACGME accredited entity, but it's currently not the case. There are plenty of CHF/transplant fellowships that accept PGY4 candidates.

With all do respect, you are mistaken. Of those listed above, only Utah and Wisconsin do not require completion of a cardiology fellowship (even though they are not accredited) and in those, they give preference to those who have finished a cards fellowship.

But, I agree, there are other programs out there that do not require it, but they are not as advanced.

Originally Posted by astropilot

With all do respect, you are mistaken. Of those listed above, only Utah and Wisconsin do not require completion of a cardiology fellowship (even though they are not accredited) and in those, they give preference to those who have finished a cards fellowship.

But, I agree, there are other programs out there that do not require it, but they are not as advanced.

Well, Pittsburgh doesn't require a completed CV fellowship for a HF fellowship, and I wouldn't call them "not as advanced" I imagine you are wrong about others as well.

There are zero accredited HF fellowships. The concept doesn't exist yet. So good luck trying to find one.

Originally Posted by tibor75

Well, Pittsburgh doesn't require a completed CV fellowship for a HF fellowship, and I wouldn't call them "not as advanced" I imagine you are wrong about others as well.

There are zero accredited HF fellowships. The concept doesn't exist yet. So good luck trying to find one.

I do not want this thread to go on anymore in the direction it is heading fast. So, I am out of this debate after this final post.

You are right, none of these are accredited - that's not the point to this thread, but it is coming soon (Vanderbilt makes note of this on their site). As for those that do require completion of a Cards fellowship, I invite anyone to look for themselves. Its on their websites as I have said (I didn't assume).

Finally, no offense was meant to any good programs like Pitt, but you must ask yourself, can a fellowship teach a cardiologist more about CHF/transplant where they can do advance treatments/procedures and really expand themselves or one who is just out of IM residency. I'll let people judge for themselves.

With all sincerity, good luck to you in your endeavors and to those who want to seek this opportunity.

If I'm correct, most heart failure sub-specialty programs are a single year after the general CV fellowship, and transplant training is an additional year, and so a HF and Tx trained cardiologist will have to spend 2 years after the general CV fellowship. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think the heart failure/transplant programs that will likely be formalized after ACGME recognition will likely be 2 years in length as well?

Originally Posted by Adcadet

If I'm correct, most heart failure sub-specialty programs are a single year after the general CV fellowship, and transplant training is an additional year, and so a HF and Tx trained cardiologist will have to spend 2 years after the general CV fellowship. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think the heart failure/transplant programs that will likely be formalized after ACGME recognition will likely be 2 years in length as well?

MGH, OSU, Vandy are all one year fellowships. At Vandy, they specifically say it could be 2 years because of ongoing research (clinical/basic). But, I didn;t look at the others.

If you find something different, please post.

Does anyone know if University of Michigan has a heart failure/transplant fellowship? I cannot find any specific info on the web, and the program coordinator has not responded to an email. Also, University of Washington and UCSF state on their websites that pre-fellowship candidates will be considered, though post-cardiology fellowship candidates will be given preference. This may become moot as HF/Tx fellowships become accredited.

thanks

Stanford
Northwestern
Minnesota
Vanderbilt University
Ohio State University
University of Cincinnati
Washington University
Cleveland Clinic
Emory University
Mayo Clinic - Rochester
University of Pittsburgh
Massachusetts General Hospital
Johns Hopkins
Toronto
Texas Heart
University of Wisconsin
University of Texas Medical Branch
University of Florida
UCLA
UCSF
University of Washington
Brigham and Women’s Hospital
University of Pittsburgh
Stanford
Utah
UT Southwestern
UAB

Originally Posted by Adcadet

If I'm correct, most heart failure sub-specialty programs are a single year after the general CV fellowship, and transplant training is an additional year, and so a HF and Tx trained cardiologist will have to spend 2 years after the general CV fellowship. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think the heart failure/transplant programs that will likely be formalized after ACGME recognition will likely be 2 years in length as well?

Incorrect. I seriously doubt HF/transplant will be 2 years in most places. The fact is that there aren't enough people interested in HF / transplant. I doubt this changes much after ACGME accreditation. HF and trasnplant can be finished off in 1 year. If any program wants 2 years, it's so you can be a research monkey which may or may not appeal to you.

It is pretty much going to be a "real" subspecialty, but as Tibor opines it is likely to remain just 1 year. I would imagine some places (like the Harvards, etc.) would offer potentially a 2-3 year track for the really hard core research types. You pretty much have to want to do academics to pursue a CHF fellowship, because there's no monetary value and in private practice taking care of CHF and/or transplant patients would be low yield in terms of keeping a practice open. It's very time consuming and doesn't bring in the billing/money to keep open your practice, I wouldn't think. Some of the CHF fellowships are teaching the fellows to do biopsies, lots of R heart caths, etc. They are trying to teach management of transplant patients, perhaps some congential cardiology, things that we don't learn much about in a lot of general cards fellowships. CHF fellowships are going to be kind of like echo fellowships...basically for academic people because you don't need to do them for private practice and there's no monetary gain really.

Hi

I'm looking for some help to compile an updated list of Heart Failure fellowships that take internal medicine candidates who have not yet done a cardiology fellowship (acgme accredited as well as those that are not).

Would anybody be able to provide any input? All the websites I've seen so far require candidates that have completed cardiology training. Seems things have changed a lot over the last few years...

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Rhymeorreason

Hi

I'm looking for some help to compile an updated list of Heart Failure fellowships that take internal medicine candidates who have not yet done a cardiology fellowship (acgme accredited as well as those that are not).

Would anybody be able to provide any input? All the websites I've seen so far require candidates that have completed cardiology training. Seems things have changed a lot over the last few years...

Thanks!

That is because HF/TX will become an ACGME accredited fellowship soon (it is rumored 2013, but I find this unlikely), so programs are phasing out the practice of accepting candidates who haven't done a cardiology fellowship but are angling for one. This is good overall as the quality of these programs will improve (they won't be just for cheap labor), but it does close the door for some.

I could see smaller, less well known programs accepting non-cards trained applicants until 2013, but you must also consider that those going through this pathway will not receive credit from the ACGME and cannot sit for HF boards (closed for those finishing cards fellowship after 7/30/11). See:

http://www.abim.org/pdf/publications...cardiology.pdf

The only benefit I see now in doing this fellowship (if even possible) before finishing cards is to get into cards, but that's a long run for a short slide.

p diddy

Originally Posted by P Diddy

That is because HF/TX will become an ACGME accredited fellowship soon (it is rumored 2013, but I find this unlikely), so programs are phasing out the practice of accepting candidates who haven't done a cardiology fellowship but are angling for one. This is good overall as the quality of these programs will improve (they won't be just for cheap labor), but it does close the door for some.

I could see smaller, less well known programs accepting non-cards trained applicants until 2013, but you must also consider that those going through this pathway will not receive credit from the ACGME and cannot sit for HF boards (closed for those finishing cards fellowship after 7/30/11). See:

http://www.abim.org/pdf/publications...cardiology.pdf

The only benefit I see now in doing this fellowship (if even possible) before finishing cards is to get into cards, but that's a long run for a short slide.

p diddy

thanks P Diddy for the input, it was helpful, esp the link. Indeed, the person is someone who has been hospitalist/gen med for 2 yrs trying to sort out resident status and would give them a chance to do some research and strengthen an application for cards. are people still doing that?

Originally Posted by Rhymeorreason

thanks P Diddy for the input, it was helpful, esp the link. Indeed, the person is someone who has been hospitalist/gen med for 2 yrs trying to sort out resident status and would give them a chance to do some research and strengthen an application for cards. are people still doing that?

would recommend doing cards based research instead since one wouldn't get clinical credit if doing the heart failure year, and would be able to do less research.

p diddy