Ask an Air Force Dentist

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Originally Posted by Jalo

Thanks for your quick reply about HPSP and private schools. That is good news for me, considering I am a resident of Kansas, and will be applying with out state status to every school. No dental school in Kansas.

Is it ever possible to be granted permission on a AF base to actually see a dentist work in his/her environment within the dental treatment facility?

Your recruiter should be able to work out a visit to a local base.

Are there average statistics available for people offered the HPSP? If not, can you tell me what my chances are (gpa: 3.47, dat: 20/21/23)? Thanks.

Originally Posted by oclor

Are there average statistics available for people offered the HPSP? If not, can you tell me what my chances are (gpa: 3.47, dat: 20/21/23)? Thanks.

Statistics are not usually available until the whole process is complete. I don't have a say in the process, but I'd say you have a good chance.

Originally Posted by AFDDS

Statistics are not usually available until the whole process is complete. I don't have a say in the process, but I'd say you have a good chance.

I don't mean to bug you but how good of a chance? The thing is, I am trying to decide between two schools. One is much more expensive than the other. If I was guaranteed that I will get the 3 year HPSP next year, I would go to the more expensive one. I know I won't get a guarantee but I want to know if it's worth the risk. Thanks.

Originally Posted by oclor

I don't mean to bug you but how good of a chance? The thing is, I am trying to decide between two schools. One is much more expensive than the other. If I was guaranteed that I will get the 3 year HPSP next year, I would go to the more expensive one. I know I won't get a guarantee but I want to know if it's worth the risk. Thanks.

I really can't say. You'll need to talk to your recruiter to get more information.

who can i contact about the air force dental scholarship?

Originally Posted by ras1

who can i contact about the air force dental scholarship?

Your regional healthcare recruiter would be your best bet. If you don't know where that is, your local AF recruiter should be able to help you find that office. If not, go to www.airforce.com and use the recruiter locator.

Want clarification on something; not sure if I understand this correctly after reading all the threads and such or if I am misunderstanding, but, when you guys continually state that the AEGD and residencies (ortho, OS, etc) do not count toward payback, you're only referring to payback owed on the scholarship, right?

I ask, because I'm concerned that you're also saying the residencies don't count toward service/retirement years either? Which would make very little sense to me as you would be in uniform, a commissioned officer, in a military residency, at a base, and I would assume even doing work on military members. I'd love to specialize some day after dental school, but I'd also like a military retirement, problem is that I probably won't graduate dental school until around 32-33; it would be pretty awful to have 3-5 years (AEGD + residency) in uniform not count toward the years to retire. I mean, as much as they're providing the training, you're going to and will be doing work for them with it as well. Like how going to tech school (for enlisted jobs), whether it's 2 months, or 2 years absolutely counts towards service/retirement years, and I'd wager that's the same case for officers in other fields like pilot training.

Anyway, I fear the answer to this, but I'll also ask in advance if anyone knows if AEGD/residencies may be made worth time toward retirement in the future (assuming they aren't now)? Thanks for your time.

Residencies and AEGD do count towards retirement. When people are talking about payback, they're referring to the comittment from the HPSP scholarship.

Are there/what are the regulations regarding pets? I'm assuming you can have a dog if you live on base, but I thought I'd check to see if there are any stipulations to that. What about if you are stationed at an OCONUS location? We have a 150lb english mastiff, and it just dawned on me that we may not be able to take her everywhere.

Just wondering how long you can expect to be a captain before getting a promotion. Does specializing speed up the process any?

Originally Posted by Focker2Fillings

Are there/what are the regulations regarding pets? I'm assuming you can have a dog if you live on base, but I thought I'd check to see if there are any stipulations to that. What about if you are stationed at an OCONUS location? We have a 150lb english mastiff, and it just dawned on me that we may not be able to take her everywhere.

No restrictions on owning. At some OCONUS locations there is a quarantine period required by the host country.

Originally Posted by nailz

Just wondering how long you can expect to be a captain before getting a promotion. Does specializing speed up the process any?

Standard time between ranks is 6 years. You meet the board for major in the zone at year 5 and pin on at year 6. Specializing does not affect you getting to Major or Lt Col. It can affect making Col, but not always.

Originally Posted by Tachyon

Hi AFDDS,

I'll probably have an MPH before I enter active duty as a dentist. Would it be possible to have credit for it in terms of rank advancement?

No. You're only allowed credit toward rank for time spent as a Dentist. Credit is usually awarded as 1 year for every 2 spent in private practice for a max of 12 years credit (toward rank only, not toward retirement).

Do you apply through PASS or do you contact the Air Force personnel center for residencies and how to apply. Is this the same for the mandatory application to AEGD or is it different. Thank You.

Originally Posted by shippwreck

Do you apply through PASS or do you contact the Air Force personnel center for residencies and how to apply. Is this the same for the mandatory application to AEGD or is it different. Thank You.

You need to contact AFPC before you apply anywhere else. The specialty applications are usually processed at the same time as AEGD applications. I would recommend you contact AFPC early to let them know what you would like to do and find out if there is a chance you can go ahead with your application.

I have a valid CA license and have been practicing in a very fast paced environment for the past year and a half. Have worked an amalgam line, rpd, complete, crowns/bridges, single visit molar root canal, pedo. It is great training( I have learned to think of it that way- to survive) but I work long hours - 11 hours a day without breaks/6 days a week - bam bam bam just to keep up production- there is always the threat of pay cutbacks if production falls below requirement. No life

I have started to look at several options- the military looks pretty good- however I am foreign trained. I recently called up the navy(only got as far as a civilian in the recruiter office ) and they kinda closed the door on my face- I was so disappointed I forgot to ask this question: What if I get accepted into a program (therefore getting my degree from a ADA accredited schooland still want to serve in the military?
help

Thanks

Originally Posted by beachdds

I have a valid CA license and have been practicing in a very fast paced environment for the past year and a half. Have worked an amalgam line, rpd, complete, crowns/bridges, single visit molar root canal, pedo. It is great training( I have learned to think of it that way- to survive) but I work long hours - 11 hours a day without breaks/6 days a week - bam bam bam just to keep up production- there is always the threat of pay cutbacks if production falls below requirement. No life

I have started to look at several options- the military looks pretty good- however I am foreign trained. I recently called up the navy(only got as far as a civilian in the recruiter office ) and they kinda closed the door on my face- I was so disappointed I forgot to ask this question: What if I get accepted into a program (therefore getting my degree from a ADA accredited schooland still want to serve in the military?
help

Thanks

Current policy requires you to have graduated from an ADA accredited school, so you will need to do that in order to serve as a dentist. Also, current DoD policy is that you must be a U.S. Citizen to serve as an officer in any branch of the military. This may change in the near future, but for now those are the rules.

I posted this in the "Navy vs AF" and "Ask any questions to a Navy Dentist!" threads but im hoping to get an answer

Ive completed my application for the HPSP Navy scholarship ... does anyone know if my application can also be used for the AF? The application was long and strenuous and I dont know if I can make it through another full application.

Originally Posted by eldirty

I posted this in the "Navy vs AF" and "Ask any questions to a Navy Dentist!" threads but im hoping to get an answer

Ive completed my application for the HPSP Navy scholarship ... does anyone know if my application can also be used for the AF? The application was long and strenuous and I dont know if I can make it through another full application.

Nope don't think so. When I applied, I was applying for both the Army and Air Force, and they had separate applications. The only thing that you may have count towards both applications is your MEPS physical. That's how it worked for me. Started with the Army app, and did MEPS with Army. I then started to apply for the AF (separate application), but they used my MEPS physical from when I went as an Army candidate. I'm not sure if it is different for the Navy, though.

Originally Posted by eldirty

I posted this in the "Navy vs AF" and "Ask any questions to a Navy Dentist!" threads but im hoping to get an answer

Ive completed my application for the HPSP Navy scholarship ... does anyone know if my application can also be used for the AF? The application was long and strenuous and I dont know if I can make it through another full application.

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Your AF recruiter should be able to answer that for you.

Originally Posted by AFDDS

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Your AF recruiter should be able to answer that for you.

I first did AF and then Army. The applications pretty much ask the same questions, but unfortunately, in different forms. But since I already had all the info I needed to complete the 2d application, it took me literally no more than a day to finish it off. I used the same MEPS result, though. Hope it helps.

ARMY STRONG!!!

Originally Posted by ALTOSS

I first did AF and then Army. The applications pretty much ask the same questions, but unfortunately, in different forms. But since I already had all the info I needed to complete the 2d application, it took me literally no more than a day to finish it off. I used the same MEPS result, though. Hope it helps.

ARMY STRONG!!!

It's good to know one helps you do the other.

Do Something Amazing!

How often on average are you sent on TDY's or remote's as an Air Force dentist? TDY's are ok it is the remote's that are my main concern. Thank you, Joseph

Originally Posted by jm76280

How often on average are you sent on TDY's or remote's as an Air Force dentist? TDY's are ok it is the remote's that are my main concern. Thank you, Joseph

You typically go TDY once a year to a CE meeting. most remotes are by volunteer .

Originally Posted by ALTOSS

I first did AF and then Army. The applications pretty much ask the same questions, but unfortunately, in different forms. But since I already had all the info I needed to complete the 2d application, it took me literally no more than a day to finish it off. I used the same MEPS result, though. Hope it helps.

ARMY STRONG!!!

I did the same thing first with AF (not scholarship tho). Forms are similar but recommend letters are slightly more complicated for AF.
AF first said I was a little over the age they would take me, so i went to Army. Army guys were so happy about my request, rushed me through all processes. At this point, I am about to be accepted officially to Army. However, AF is my first choice. So then i checked AF again, they said they would take my application as well.
Army obviously wasn't too happy I requested PE result for AF application, saying AF doesn't have AEGD program as easier to get in as Army. They also said AF isn't as easy to give you promotion as in Army. AEGD residency is really the main reason i'm joining military, plus the good retirement program. I wonder Army had the right comments about AF?
My AF recruiter just sent out my application recently. I hope I would get answer very soon, otherwise I guess I would be pulled out into Army very quickly lol. (They are pretty pushy sometimes.)

Originally Posted by RealWorldDDS

I did the same thing first with AF (not scholarship tho). Forms are similar but recommend letters are slightly more complicated for AF.
AF first said I was a little over the age they would take me, so i went to Army. Army guys were so happy about my request, rushed me through all processes. At this point, I am about to be accepted officially to Army. However, AF is my first choice. So then i checked AF again, they said they would take my application as well.
Army obviously wasn't too happy I requested PE result for AF application, saying AF doesn't have AEGD program as easier to get in as Army. They also said AF isn't as easy to give you promotion as in Army. AEGD residency is really the main reason i'm joining military, plus the good retirement program. I wonder Army had the right comments about AF?
My AF recruiter just sent out my application recently. I hope I would get answer very soon, otherwise I guess I would be pulled out into Army very quickly lol. (They are pretty pushy sometimes.)

Not sure I agree with either one of these. I will say the Army may have more AEGD authorizations than the AF, but I'm not sure. So far AF has been pretty easy to get AEGD traininig. I'll have to check the numbers, but last time I heard an update, AF promotion rates were higher.

Does COT have out of pocket expenses? If it does how much?
I got on the COT website and it appears that there might be $2,000
worth of uniforms to pay for!

Hi, i am undergrad and want to do the HSPS in the airforce but i cant get a straight answer about the signing bonus, does the airforce give the $20000 signup bonus? also i have read in most of the posts that deployment is ussually 4-6 months,, is every airforce dentist deployed overseas?

Hello,
I am currently in my undergrad at a college in Indiana. I am very
interested in the HSPS scholarship and the air force is very appealing to
me. I was wondering what undergrad GPA and what DAT score the airforce is
looking for?
I also was wanting to know if the air force gives the $20,000 signing
bonus for the HSPS like the other branches do? And lastly i have see on
some of the bloggs that many of the people do the AEGD program. Can you
do both? and if so do you get both bonuses, and does that bump your
commitment up to 5 years?
Thank you,

Originally Posted by lowkeydentist

Does COT have out of pocket expenses? If it does how much?
I got on the COT website and it appears that there might be $2,000
worth of uniforms to pay for!

Yes you will be paying for your uniforms. I don't think you'll need as much as $2,000, but it can definitely be over $1,000, especially if they make you purchase mess dress uniforms. I was fortunate enough to not have to buy mine, but the policy may have changed. You are given $400 towards them, but the rest is on your own.

Originally Posted by IUPUIhopeful

Hi, i am undergrad and want to do the HSPS in the airforce but i cant get a straight answer about the signing bonus, does the airforce give the $20000 signup bonus? also i have read in most of the posts that deployment is ussually 4-6 months,, is every airforce dentist deployed overseas?

As far as I know, no bonuses for the AF. There have been discussions regarding it, but nothing is in print right now, so assume that you won't be getting a bonus.

Originally Posted by IUPUIhopeful

Hello,
I am currently in my undergrad at a college in Indiana. I am very
interested in the HSPS scholarship and the air force is very appealing to
me. I was wondering what undergrad GPA and what DAT score the airforce is
looking for?
I also was wanting to know if the air force gives the $20,000 signing
bonus for the HSPS like the other branches do? And lastly i have see on
some of the bloggs that many of the people do the AEGD program. Can you
do both? and if so do you get both bonuses, and does that bump your
commitment up to 5 years?
Thank you,

The gpa and DAT can vary. The sooner you apply, the better. You can become Matrix qualified if you have a certain GPA and DAT score, which basically guarantees you a scholarship as long as you apply early (matrix means you are automatically qualified for the scholarship academically, and you will be given the scholarship as long as there are still open slots and you pass the physical). I do not know the minimum GPA or DAT in order to become matrix qualified, but I believe its around a 3.5 GPA and a 20 DAT.

Nothing in print about a bonus for the AF. Therefore, assume no bonus.

Yes you can do both the HPSP and AEGD. As a matte of fact, you are required to apply for hte AEGD as an HPSP student. You can turn it down if you'd like, but you gain a lot of experience from the AEGD. If you turn it down, you have your 4-year active duty committment. If you take the AEGD, you will owe a total of 5 years active duty.

There are no bonuses with the AEGD as far as I know. You do not recieve any additional pay for doing an AEGD, but you are on active duty pay as an O-3 (captain).

AFDDS, feel free to correct me if I am incorrect with any of this information.

Originally Posted by hattrack04

The gpa and DAT can vary. The sooner you apply, the better. You can become Matrix qualified if you have a certain GPA and DAT score, which basically guarantees you a scholarship as long as you apply early (matrix means you are automatically qualified for the scholarship academically, and you will be given the scholarship as long as there are still open slots and you pass the physical). I do not know the minimum GPA or DAT in order to become matrix qualified, but I believe its around a 3.5 GPA and a 20 DAT.

Nothing in print about a bonus for the AF. Therefore, assume no bonus.

Yes you can do both the HPSP and AEGD. As a matte of fact, you are required to apply for hte AEGD as an HPSP student. You can turn it down if you'd like, but you gain a lot of experience from the AEGD. If you turn it down, you have your 4-year active duty committment. If you take the AEGD, you will owe a total of 5 years active duty.

There are no bonuses with the AEGD as far as I know. You do not recieve any additional pay for doing an AEGD, but you are on active duty pay as an O-3 (captain).

AFDDS, feel free to correct me if I am incorrect with any of this information.

Right on the money. I think the DAT score is 19 though.

I've been reading through this whole thread and piecing together answers to my questions but I can't seem to get anything conclusive. So, I'm just going to ask to clarify.

1. If you get a 4 year HPSP scholarship for dental school and then do a 4 year OMS residency directly after, this equates to a total of 12 years? 4 years for dental school, 4 years in OMS residency while simultaneously paying back your 4 years of HPSP, and then 4 years of active duty to payback the OMS residency?

2. If I somehow got deferment for active duty in order to complete a civilian 6 year MD program, the total would be 14 years? 4 for dental school with HPSP, 6 year civilian OMS program, and 4 years payback for the HPSP as an oral surgeon on active duty?

3. With only a 3.2 undergrad GPA, will this make it impossible to compete for the HPSP scholarship? Will my DAT scores offset this?

Thanks. Please correct the timelines in 1 and/or 2 if needed.

Originally Posted by preOMFS

I've been reading through this whole thread and piecing together answers to my questions but I can't seem to get anything conclusive. So, I'm just going to ask to clarify.

1. If you get a 4 year HPSP scholarship for dental school and then do a 4 year OMS residency directly after, this equates to a total of 12 years? 4 years for dental school, 4 years in OMS residency while simultaneously paying back your 4 years of HPSP, and then 4 years of active duty to payback the OMS residency?

Not quite right. The OMS residency would be neutral years (Don't count toward ADSO for HPSP, but count toward pay, retirement, and time in grade). The OMS 4-year payback and the HPSP payback are served concurrently. So you would only owe 8 years.

2. If I somehow got deferment for active duty in order to complete a civilian 6 year MD program, the total would be 14 years? 4 for dental school with HPSP, 6 year civilian OMS program, and 4 years payback for the HPSP as an oral surgeon on active duty?

As noted above - 6 years neutral for residency. HPSP and OMS payback are concurrent + 2 extra years of OMS = 10 years

3. With only a 3.2 undergrad GPA, will this make it impossible to compete for the HPSP scholarship? Will my DAT scores offset this?

Still possible to compete, but you won't be matrix qualified. You need to make sure you apply on time. It is possible that all the scholarships would be given out to those that are matrix qualified. It varies from year to year.

Thanks. Please correct the timelines in 1 and/or 2 if needed.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

1. so if the OMS and HPSP are paid back concurrently, wouldnt that only be four years??

2. Why would I have to pay back for a civilian OMS program?

Originally Posted by preOMFS

1. so if the OMS and HPSP are paid back concurrently, wouldnt that only be four years??

4 years in residency, your still on active duty and in the military, + 4 years payback for a total of 8 years.

OK, that makes sense. But what if I got the deferment to go to a 6 year civilian program. Would I only owe 4 years after the residency to payback the HPSP?

By the way, if you're on active duty during a 4 year military OMS residency, can they deploy you??

Originally Posted by preOMFS

OK, that makes sense. But what if I got the deferment to go to a 6 year civilian program. Would I only owe 4 years after the residency to payback the HPSP?

You have to understand that the needs of the AF come first once you graduate from dental school if you are on HPSP. In order to get a deferment, you must apply through the AF residency system and you are considered on active duty while in the civilian program. If you're receiving any financial aid from the AF to help pay for the training program, you will owe a year for a year. So it would be 4 years for HPSP and 6years for the training program. Therefore, you would be on AD for 10 years, but only 6 would be payback years.

By the way, if you're on active duty during a 4 year military OMS residency, can they deploy you??

You won't deploy while in training.

Sorry for all of the picky questions, but I want to determine if HPSP is right for me.

What if I don't receive aid from the AF when I am in the civilian program for 6 years? Do I still owe 10 years?

Originally Posted by preOMFS

Sorry for all of the picky questions, but I want to determine if HPSP is right for me.

What if I don't receive aid from the AF when I am in the civilian program for 6 years? Do I still owe 10 years?

OK. I've finally gotten all the facts. If you complete dental school and are allowed to defer, you will pay for the OMS training out of your pocket and will only owe the AF the 4 years for HPSP once you graduate from your training. You are required to go through the residency app process and you must receive permission from the OMS consultant to do it.

Thanks AFDDS for getting the facts.

So, it sounds like getting a deferment is pretty rare and probably not going to happen, please correct me if I'm wrong. So, assuming I did HPSP and applied for a AF OMS residency program, what is the likelihood of matching, assuming my scores/grades/externships are competitive? Are the AF OMS programs really competitive?

My fear is doing HPSP and being inhibited from reaching my goal of becoming an oral surgeon just because I took the scholarship. Don't get my wrong, I would love to serve the AF as an oral surgeon (preferably with an MD) because I want to travel, serve my country and everything else that comes with it. But if I am forced to do something that doesnt make me happy, i.e. not OMS, then I dont think its for me.

Originally Posted by preOMFS

Thanks AFDDS for getting the facts.

So, it sounds like getting a deferment is pretty rare and probably not going to happen, please correct me if I'm wrong. So, assuming I did HPSP and applied for a AF OMS residency program, what is the likelihood of matching, assuming my scores/grades/externships are competitive? Are the AF OMS programs really competitive?

My fear is doing HPSP and being inhibited from reaching my goal of becoming an oral surgeon just because I took the scholarship. Don't get my wrong, I would love to serve the AF as an oral surgeon (preferably with an MD) because I want to travel, serve my country and everything else that comes with it. But if I am forced to do something that doesnt make me happy, i.e. not OMS, then I dont think its for me.

AF programs are competitive. However, if you have the grades, etc... to get into a civilain program, you'll get accepted to the AF programs. Not everyone gets in the first time they apply, so don't think it's a lock. You'll be competing against less people in the AF so the selection % is higher.

AFDDS, Once again thank you so much for your great information. I am in my third year of dental school on the AF HPSP. I am extremely interested in pursuing endo. My question is: what do I need to do to actually apply to an airforce specialty program? Is there anyone I should be in contact with now? Should I study and take the GRE? Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Originally Posted by gszilins

AFDDS, Once again thank you so much for your great information. I am in my third year of dental school on the AF HPSP. I am extremely interested in pursuing endo. My question is: what do I need to do to actually apply to an airforce specialty program? Is there anyone I should be in contact with now? Should I study and take the GRE? Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

You'll need to go through the AF residency application process. Check with AFPC to see when you need to start applying. However, unless something has changed, endo isn't one of the residencies you can apply to right out of school.

Describe an average Day, Week , Year, and deployment for an AF Dentist.

Using generalities of course, no need for specifics.
Work hours
Patients seen
Paper work hours
How much time is spent on non-dentist activities.
Evals
PT
Quarters
Change of commands
Award Ceremonies
Ect..

Originally Posted by Mazz

Describe an average Day, Week , Year, and deployment for an AF Dentist.

Using generalities of course, no need for specifics.
Work hours
8 hrs a day 5 days a week

Patients seen
varies. I'd say 6-10 on most days. Sometimes more.

Paper work hours
Not sure what you mean on this one, but it varies. I do more paperwork than most, but I have a residency to run and we have certain things we have to keep track of.

How much time is spent on non-dentist activities.
Generally, not very much. Unless you have a specific tasking, you're needed as a dentist.

Evals
If you mean dental exams - about 1/2 day to 1 day a week.

PT
We get about 2 hours per week with an optional 3rd hour.

Quarters
??
Change of commands
One every 2 or 3 years

Award Ceremonies
Depends on how involved you want to be. We have several that I attend to support my troops, but I'm not required to go to them, it's just the right thing to do.
Ect..

The AF is getting more serious about being in shape and has been putting more and more emphasis on it.

I will be starting dental school this August and realize it is too late to apply for the four year scholarship. However is it too early to apply for the three year scholarship for years 2010-2013?

Also I have a 3.34 undergrad GPA but a 3.9 Graduate GPA (MS program) and a 21 DAT, would this matrix qualify me or do they only look at the undergrad GPA?

i've gone thru about half the posts, and got some very good info.. im really interested in joining the air force thru the HPSP program.. but i am feeling a bit skeptical of whether id even get accepted or not... i wanted to know what the chances are of getting accepted.. and what the whole application process consists of... i think id have some drawbacks on my application and wanted to know whether i shuld even bother applying... i have been accepted to a dental school already, my DAT was 19 AA, and overall GPA was 3.6 with a phyisical science major..

my major concerns are that i have been arrested when i was 17 while in hs.. my original charges were pretty bad (a felony) but after the whole court process it was dismissed and instead recieved a misdemeanor for disorderly conduct and that has been sealed from my records and does not show up on any background checks (although im sure the military would have access to it)... and recently I have been arrested again for assault charges (as a felony) because i got involved in a fight.. the thing is for my second arrest i was completely not at fault because i was actually trying to break up the fight and i guess out of confusion the victim pointed me out... i still have one more court date in june and from what my lawyer tells me the case will most likely be dismissed... and also when it comes to drug tests how does that whole process work, i have done it occasionally in high school.. but w/in the last 4 years very rarely, maybe 2-3 times at most... the past year have not touched anything.. would anything show up on tests? and shuld i admit to my past if it wouldnt who up.. i mean i am all for honesty but my app already would sound so horrible with the truth..

in all honesty my past has been my past.. i grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood and i guess you can say have been surrounded by bad influences my whole life.. i know none of that is an excuse, but i am definitely nothing like what i was anymore.. i have worked very hard to get to where i am now, and have completely let go of everything in my past.. my dream has always been to get my family out of these circumstances and i plan to do so... the military oppurtunity sounds like and ideal one for me, because i know life in the military will definitly solidfy my want to change and become a better person.. any feedback as to my chances of getting accepted will be greatly appreciated.. thanx