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Originally Posted by NoMoreAMCAS

^^^^ How much?

Figure $900 twice per month. A lot depends on what your state taxes are.

Originally Posted by glamqueen

How competitive is it with a 3.6 and a 29 to get AF? I want to be an OB/GYN - is that going to be competitive to get as my choice for military or civilian (don't care as long as it is OB/GYN)? Do they look at whether or not you are female or male? As in favor one over the other?

You are competitive for the scholarship. Whether or not you will be competitive for OB in the future is unknown. Too many factors cloud the crystal ball. OB runs hot and cold. Some years there are an abundance of applicants, others they struggle to fill. I have never seen any of the services discriminate by gender. Most programs are equally weighted.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

You are competitive for the scholarship. Whether or not you will be competitive for OB in the future is unknown. Too many factors cloud the crystal ball.

Also, don't extrapolate your undergrad performance with how you will do in medical school. 3.6/29 is fine, but isn't any indication how you'll do in medical school.

Work hard in med school, get a strong MCAT and strong evals in your clinical years, and you'll be fine for civilian OB-GYN. Military? Much of it is entirely up to chance. This is the problem with HPSP.

I am meeting with a recruiter for the first time next week. I have asked many questions and think this is the best program for my situation....special thanks to all of those that have helped me. I could not have made such an informed decision had it not been for the input on this and other related threads.\

That being said, I don't eant to leave anything on the table. Is there anything negotiable or add ons that can be asked for upfront before signing. I know I may be opening myself up for some humorous responses, but I am just curious.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by punkiedad

I am meeting with a recruiter for the first time next week. I have asked many questions and think this is the best program for my situation....special thanks to all of those that have helped me. I could not have made such an informed decision had it not been for the input on this and other related threads.\

That being said, I don't eant to leave anything on the table. Is there anything negotiable or add ons that can be asked for upfront before signing. I know I may be opening myself up for some humorous responses, but I am just curious.

Thanks.

Seriously, no.

But if we want to add some whimsy:

Ask for a hummer, a years supply of Turtle Wax, and the Amazing Alaskan Knives. (I wish I had held out for the knives)

Originally Posted by punkiedad

I am meeting with a recruiter for the first time next week. I have asked many questions and think this is the best program for my situation....special thanks to all of those that have helped me. I could not have made such an informed decision had it not been for the input on this and other related threads.\

That being said, I don't eant to leave anything on the table. Is there anything negotiable or add ons that can be asked for upfront before signing. I know I may be opening myself up for some humorous responses, but I am just curious.

Thanks.

You should get them to take you out to lunch somewhere as you sign the paperwork, I know recruiters used to get some extra money for that type of stuff.

Originally Posted by punkiedad

I am meeting with a recruiter for the first time next week. I have asked many questions and think this is the best program for my situation....special thanks to all of those that have helped me. I could not have made such an informed decision had it not been for the input on this and other related threads.\

That being said, I don't eant to leave anything on the table. Is there anything negotiable or add ons that can be asked for upfront before signing. I know I may be opening myself up for some humorous responses, but I am just curious.

Thanks.

Are you going Navy?

How about negotiating to be the next "The Bachelor"?

Originally Posted by NavyFP

Figure $900 twice per month. A lot depends on what your state taxes are.

Good deal, only about a hundred bucks a month in taxes, i could deal with that.

So I contacted a recruiter...
Received an application for commision
Filled out the application for commision
Went to MEPS...
Had my physical...
I needed to urinate twice, because one chick spilt my urine
Found out my ears needed cleaning....
Did the duck dance in my undies...
Got my ears cleaned....
Stamped as Physically Qualified....
Got Accepted into 5 DO schools...
Sent in my Official MCAT scores/LORS/Acceptance letters/official transcripts
Found out Last Week that all of this paperwork had been received Last Wednesday...
When do I find out if I've been accepted as an HPSP candidate?


All I have heard is that the board convenes and decides on whether to accept or reject.

Any experiences of previous/current applicants?

I've e-mailed/called my recruiter and the person in charge of processing my paperwork. ANy other advice to move a long the process!

Should I threaten them that I am considering joining a different branch of the military?

Any help is appreciated!

Originally Posted by Kishkinde

So I contacted a recruiter...
Received an application for commision
Filled out the application for commision
Went to MEPS...
Had my physical...
I needed to urinate twice, because one chick spilt my urine
Found out my ears needed cleaning....
Did the duck dance in my undies...
Got my ears cleaned....
Stamped as Physically Qualified....
Got Accepted into 5 DO schools...
Sent in my Official MCAT scores/LORS/Acceptance letters/official transcripts
Found out Last Week that all of this paperwork had been received Last Wednesday...
When do I find out if I've been accepted as an HPSP candidate?


All I have heard is that the board convenes and decides on whether to accept or reject.

Any experiences of previous/current applicants?

I've e-mailed/called my recruiter and the person in charge of processing my paperwork. ANy other advice to move a long the process!

Should I threaten them that I am considering joining a different branch of the military?

Any help is appreciated!

I can't answer for sure, but i am going through the process myself, about the same point as you. I don't remember the exact timing, but if I get everything in, and my trascripts arrive in time, they paperwork gets sent sometime in December. The board meets in January and I think I will find out sometime in early February?? Sorry, I am going from memory.

The other part of your post rings true with me. It seems my recruiter was weak on some answers and a bit scatter brained or something like that....can't totally put my finger on it though......If this is a pattern, maybe it makes sense to spend more time preparing and executing the administrative parts of your job than shining your shoes??

Thanks for your input. Makes it easier to know that someone is sharing my somewhat frustration with the process.

Have you done the security/background investigation form. That seriously took me like 5 hours.

Well hopefully we're one step closer to finding out....I wish you good luck with the process!

I've been reading a lot of stuff you guys have posted on here and it has been really helpful. I am in my first year of medical school and I blew off the military idea at first because I didn't want my strings tied, but now I am more seriously debating doing the HPSP thing. I really don't mind not getting paid a lot and I really would like to travel out of the country in the military because I don't have a family and the girlfriend I have is cool doing whatever I want to do. I met with a recruiter this morning and talked for a couple hours about some things.

From what she told me, which could be contrary to what the forum has said, was that I would receive an O1 under 2 year pay grade immediately when I signed up that I would get when I did my officer's training. But then she also said that once I finished medical school and started the military residency that I would move up to an O3 over 3 year pay. If I have never had any military before medical school then I would still just get the O3 under 2 year pay am I right??

I am interested in doing General Surgery. Are there any ideas on how competitive that has been in the past several years in getting accepted into a residency?? How many spots do they usually have at each of these hospitals?? They told me that San Antonio, Georgia, Washington, Hawaii, Walter Reed, and El Paso all have General Residency programs?? Is that even true?

Are GMOs still done in the Army? The recruiter was trying to tell me that that was just a Navy and Air Force thing and not an Army thing. Is there a risk that if I did want to do General Surgery that I would get put in one of those GMO positions? I understand that I have four years of active duty and four years of IRR, but what do the GMO years count for? The active duty years? Do your residency years count as anything toward that IRR? (If I did what I wanted [cardio-throracic surgery] which I think is 5 years of general surgery with 2 more years, what would my commitment be? It seems you guys know this stuff a lot better than I do and I would spend all night and a headache trying to figure it out)

The recruiter also led me to believe that the three years I had left in medical school would go toward my retirement? Is that true? Or is that a stretch of the truth?

Lastly, I am paying in-state tuition and took out 28,000 in loans this year to pay for part of my tuition and living expenses. I have figured that I can probably make it out of this with under 85,000 in loans. They tell me about that 20,000 bonus, which seems to actually only be about 14,000, but my mom seems to think that I can get them to cover all 28,000 of my loans and she works for the military. Don't know if that would happen though. Is this program worth it right now? I want to do something different with my life. I would love to get out of the country and to serve my country, but I don't know if it is worth taking the risk of not getting into a General Surgery residency and having to waste more time in a GMO, if the Army even has that anymore.

I am pretty set on doing the Army if I do any of them, but I really need some advice on this stuff. Any help you can give me and I would be TREMENDOUSLY grateful. This is a big decision, and I have made up my mind that if I do this, I would stay in the military until I retired, which seems to be the best option. Thank you again in advance for all of your help!!!!!

Originally Posted by berryball

Are GMOs still done in the Army? The recruiter was trying to tell me that that was just a Navy and Air Force thing and not an Army thing.

GMO tours are still very much done in the Army. Based on the last data someone posted, 25% of folks did GMO tours. That's less than Navy, but do not go Army thinking this will not be a factor for you.

Originally Posted by berryball

Is there a risk that if I did want to do General Surgery that I would get put in one of those GMO positions?

Absolutely. If a GMO tour is a dealbreaker, go the FAP route. With HPSP, you need to be comfortable with the possibility of a GMO tour.

Originally Posted by berryball

I understand that I have four years of active duty and four years of IRR, but what do the GMO years count for? The active duty years?

Yes, GMO tours count towards your active duty payback.

Originally Posted by berryball

Do your residency years count as anything toward that IRR? (If I did what I wanted [cardio-throracic surgery] which I think is 5 years of general surgery with 2 more years, what would my commitment be?

No. Residency years actually accumulate more active duty obligation, but it can be paid back with your obligation incurred from HPSP.

For instance, if you incur four years of HPSP-related payback, then do your internship (which incurs and counts for nothing), and do not match into a Surgery program, you may do a two year GMO tour. You now only owe two years. If you then match into Surgery and do a four year residency, you now owe a total of four years (two years from HPSP and four years from your surgery, which are paid back at the same time, so it would be four years).

Let's say you then do a two year utilization tour (you do not usually go straight from residency to fellowship without a utilization tour as a surgeon first), you would then only owe two years from your residency. You do two years of fellowship training and then owe two years from the fellowship and the two years from the residency for a total of four more years (HPSP and GME are paid back concurrently, but your years you owe from training is added).

So assuming you want to do cardiology in the military, assume that you would spend between 11-15 years in the military after medical school, depending on if you have to do a two year GMO stint.

Originally Posted by berryball

Lastly, I am paying in-state tuition and took out 28,000 in loans this year to pay for part of my tuition and living expenses. I have figured that I can probably make it out of this with under 85,000 in loans. They tell me about that 20,000 bonus, which seems to actually only be about 14,000, but my mom seems to think that I can get them to cover all 28,000 of my loans and she works for the military.

How? You can't get HPSP retroactively.

Originally Posted by berryball

Is this program worth it right now? I want to do something different with my life. I would love to get out of the country and to serve my country, but I don't know if it is worth taking the risk of not getting into a General Surgery residency and having to waste more time in a GMO, if the Army even has that anymore.

I literally can't think of a worse financial decision that someone who is looking at $85K in debt who is thinking of going into cardiology taking HPSP. It would literally end up costing you close to a million dollars or more, depending on your career.

With so little debt, you should consider FAP. You will have potentially have much better residency training (you have many more options, and most civilian programs don't have the volume issue) and you will be able to enter the military and work as a surgeon instead of the risk of GMO tours.

If you go to an incredibly expensive school and are looking at $250K and are bound for a career in pediatrics or primary care and are looking at the lowest salaries in medicine, HPSP will probably pay for itself. In most other instances, it doesn't. In your case, it absolutely would be a huge loss of money. And control of your level of training and professional options.

In your case, if you really want to serve, consider FAP. HPSP for someone with cardiology dreams and $85K of debt is just a criminally bad idea.

Thanks a lot for your advice. That really helped a lot. I just really don't want to get screwed with this. But what you said helped!! Thanks

So I finally heard back from my recruiter, and apparently passed the first hump, by being professionally recommended for the scholarship.

I have read through these forums, and I am wondering how much weightage I have in negotiating the scholarship terms.

For example before signing the contract, may I demand certain things? I know it's hard to demand no GMO tours, but what other factors could I negotiate?

Thanks for the input, this forum has been such a great insight into determining whether I wanted to take this scholarship or not!

Actually, you are in such high demand, that you can basically negotiate for anything you want. NO GMO tour should be just the starting demand. Definitely demand that you not deploy...ever. Maybe you can get rides on Air Force One, EMR that is functional, smoking-hot nurses, personal secretaries that double as a masseuse. Don't forget the company vehicle with a mileage allowance. And if I had it to do-over I would probably get an American Express Black card instead of this gay Citi-govt card with ridiculous restrictions.

Originally Posted by Kishkinde

So I finally heard back from my recruiter, and apparently passed the first hump, by being professionally recommended for the scholarship.

I have read through these forums, and I am wondering how much weightage I have in negotiating the scholarship terms.

For example before signing the contract, may I demand certain things? I know it's hard to demand no GMO tours, but what other factors could I negotiate?

Thanks for the input, this forum has been such a great insight into determining whether I wanted to take this scholarship or not!

No Deployment ever? Oh C'mon....that's best you can do?

And if only there was a demand for smoking HOT Male nurses.....

Are you trying to put me in my place? Because...frankly ouch

Originally Posted by Kishkinde

No Deployment ever? Oh C'mon....that's best you can do?

And if only there was a demand for smoking HOT Male nurses.....

Are you trying to put me in my place? Because...frankly ouch

Essentially he is saying, no, there is no room to negotiate. The deal is the deal. The military pays for med school, you owe the military your time. They cannot guarantee internship, GMO tours, deployments, or place of assignment. Read the contract, if you can live with it as is. Sign. If not, don't.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

Essentially he is saying, no, there is no room to negotiate. The deal is the deal. The military pays for med school, you owe the military your time. They cannot guarantee internship, GMO tours, deployments, or place of assignment. Read the contract, if you can live with it as is. Sign. If not, don't.

That is exactly what I was saying, just in a funnier way.

For the HSPS scholarship, is government health insurance included for the wife and kids?

Originally Posted by Member 870

For the HSPS scholarship, is government health insurance included for the wife and kids?

No, unless your school lumps your insurance in with tuition or something like that. If you have to pay for insurance separate from tuition, then HPSP only covers you. I know, that sucks.

Originally Posted by Member 870

For the HSPS scholarship, is government health insurance included for the wife and kids?

Not for HPSP, but if health insurance for the family is a big issue, you could consider the Health Services Collegiate Program (HSCP). In this program, you are on active duty at the pay level of E6. If you recruit someone or make Dean's list, you get promoted to E7. You get paid full active duty pay and allowances along with full medical and dental. All of the time spent in HSCP counts towards future longevity pay and retirement. So, after graduation, you only need 16 more years to receive retirement benefits. The difference is that you receive no assistance for tuition, books, fees, etc. and there is no signing bonus. If you attend an inexpensive state school, this can be worth it. I figure a total bill of less than $18K makes HSCP better than HPSP.

I am sorry if this has been answered already, but what is the time required to serve in order to retire. If I sign up through the HPSP do the years in medical school and residency count as enlisted years? I am particularly interested in the NAVY. Also, what are the benefits of the retirement plan? Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by Annadoc

I am sorry if this has been answered already, but what is the time required to serve in order to retire. If I sign up through the HPSP do the years in medical school and residency count as enlisted years? I am particularly interested in the NAVY. Also, what are the benefits of the retirement plan? Thanks in advance!

1. 20 years
2. Residency yes, HPSP no (but as time in service not enlisted years because you will be comissioned)
3. 50% of your base pay for life if you retire at 20. Tricare for life (benefit )

Good luck

Thanks!

Dear All,

I've been reading these forums, and y'all have given me a lot to think about (namely, "don't trust the recruiters"). Even so, I'm really unsure about what to do, and so as the genius that I am, I decided to ask hundreds of perfect strangers to help me make the most important decision of my entire life.

You should feel honored. I know I do.

Current situation:
I am 21, a junior in undergrad, pre-med, looking into applying to med schools a year or so after graduation. I am thinking about doing Peace Corp/Americorps/Healthcorps/ something service-oriented in my gap year. Depending on my MCATs, I'll either apply the year after I graduate, or apply to a Post-Bacc program to boost my GPA and whatnot. I'm not exactly "poor," but there's no way in Hell I could put myself through med school without incurring AT LEAST the average $250K in loans (if not more).

Academics:
GPA is about a 3.27, but my Science is much, much lower (somewhere around 2.7 at last count). Haven't taken the MCAT yet, but will hopefully pull off a 29+ when I take it this summer. I've volunteered for a couple hundred hours, will shadow in a few weeks, and am (cautiously) optimistic that I will get into med school...someday.

Aspirations:
Leaning towards Osteopathic Medicine (for philosophical reasons, as well as "admissional" ones), and am interested in doing PCP (not the drug), probably in the form of Family Practice, General/Internal Medicine, or Rural Medicine. I do not want to do Surgery, ED, or Research. Not now, and probably not ever. I might change my specialty to something sexier in med school, but I doubt it, and it would still be some form of clinical work. My long-term goal in life is to be the stereotypical "country doctor" or suburban family practitioner, complete with the wife and 2.5 children. [cues theme song to "Leave It to Beaver"]

That said, I am currently single, no dependants, and there are no signs in sight that this will be changing for the next 10-20 years or so, if it ever will. I am willing to move around if I have to (I've done it my whole life anyways), but I would like some reliability and stability as I get older, and to have the option of settling down and putting down roots if I ever get the chance to start a family. I am not above spending a decade or two in the military, however I have never thought of myself as career military (although the uniforms and benefits are incredibly badass).

I don't care about getting rich, but I don't want to be scraping by or struggling; $100k-150K after taxes will MORE than meet my needs (at least until the "family planning stage" sets in, if it ever does). I just want to have a job where I can take care of myself and loved ones, do something good with my life, and not hate myself/my employer every minute of the workday.

Why I am Considering HPSP:
The usual financial reasons, plus I've always wanted to do something with the military, that didn't involved the risk of death or killing (I'm a conscientious objector, but my faith permits "humanitarian" work in military services). The benefits are great, the possibility of graduating working without debts or malpractice is amazing, and the idea of being an officer and serving my country is certainly tempting to a degree.

Also, when I first began exploring military medicine, I was tempted by the idea that the military, perhaps more so than civilian or private practice, really cares more about what is in the patient's best interest, and not what is the most profitable or economically-viable course of action. I don't like politics, in my personal or professional life, and I'll only play them if it will actually work and I will absolutely have to.

But I really don't want to have to.

Why I am hesitating about HPSP:
The title of this post; namely, having my future mortgaged away without at least knowing what I'm getting myself into. I don't know enough about military medicine to know whether it is or isn't for me, but my biggest concern is about life after HPSP, and life in the military as a whole.

Dress and attire, rules and regulations, orders and drills, these I can learn to live with if I have to. Dictating what or how I practice might be more difficult, especially if I have to trade wrestling with insurance agencies for wrestling with government agencies over a patient's best interests and treatment. GMOs--that aren't in combat zones--and dictating where I practice, that's more reasonable as long as I have at least some input, even if it gets ignored some or most of the time. Until I start a family (if I ever do), I can move whenever and wherever I need to, although I'd certainly prefer not to.

Most of all, I like having the freedom voice my objections to something I find objectionable. I can work, or work within, the system if I have to, but I have to be confident that the system is workable and that I'm not just wating my time. I just want to do my job, to the best of my ability, and todo so in a way that takes care of my patients', and also my own, best interests.

To be honest, I just wanted to know if HPSP might not be the best thing for me, and how difficult life is in Military Med, since I don't really have access to any Military Docs in my area. What I'd like to know is:

Comparing HPSP to FAP and Student Loans

1) First year of Med. School:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

2) Second Year of Med. School:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

3) Third Year of Med. School:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

4) Fourth Year of Med. School:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

5) First Year of Residency/Internship (Primary Care):
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

6) Second Year of Residency:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

7) Third Year of Residency:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

8) First Year of Payback Period:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

9) Second Year of Payback Period:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

10) Third Year of Payback Period:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

11) Fourth/Final Year of Payback Period:
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

12) Years of Practicing until Military Retirement (assuming I stick with it to the end):
-What will I do?
-What should I expect?
-What is expected of me?
-What do I get out of it/owe?
-What are the risks?

With practical/realistic scenarios and examples (if possible) for each.

Oh, and now that I'm being all needy and a complete douche, how would this be different across all of the three of the services?

Sorry to be so demanding, but with so much BS and runaround (and I don't mean the degree-programs and PT), it's hard to get a straight answer, even if I spent my whole undergrad on the forums.

Originally Posted by CrazedNDiffused

Dear All,

I've been reading these forums, and y'all have given me a lot to think about (namely, "don't trust the recruiters"). Even so, I'm really unsure about what to do, and so as the genius that I am, I decided to ask hundreds of perfect strangers to help me make the most important decision of my entire life.

You should feel honored. I know I do.

Current situation:
I am 21, a junior in undergrad, pre-med, looking into applying to med schools a year or so after graduation. I am thinking about doing Peace Corp/Americorps/Healthcorps/ something service-oriented in my gap year. Depending on my MCATs, I'll either apply the year after I graduate, or apply to a Post-Bacc program to boost my GPA and whatnot. I'm not exactly "poor," but there's no way in Hell I could put myself through med school without incurring AT LEAST the average $250K in loans (if not more).

Academics:
GPA is about a 3.27, but my Science is much, much lower (somewhere around 2.7 at last count). Haven't taken the MCAT yet, but will hopefully pull off a 29+ when I take it this summer. I've volunteered for a couple hundred hours, will shadow in a few weeks, and am (cautiously) optimistic that I will get into med school...someday.

Aspirations:
Leaning towards Osteopathic Medicine (for philosophical reasons, as well as "admissional" ones), and am interested in doing PCP (not the drug), probably in the form of Family Practice, General/Internal Medicine, or Rural Medicine. I do not want to do Surgery, ED, or Research. Not now, and probably not ever. I might change my specialty to something sexier in med school, but I doubt it, and it would still be some form of clinical work. My long-term goal in life is to be the stereotypical "country doctor" or suburban family practitioner, complete with the wife and 2.5 children. [cues theme song to "Leave It to Beaver"]

That said, I am currently single, no dependants, and there are no signs in sight that this will be changing for the next 10-20 years or so, if it ever will. I am willing to move around if I have to (I've done it my whole life anyways), but I would like some reliability and stability as I get older, and to have the option of settling down and putting down roots if I ever get the chance to start a family. I am not above spending a decade or two in the military, however I have never thought of myself as career military (although the uniforms and benefits are incredibly badass).

I don't care about getting rich, but I don't want to be scraping by or struggling; $100k-150K after taxes will MORE than meet my needs (at least until the "family planning stage" sets in, if it ever does). I just want to have a job where I can take care of myself and loved ones, do something good with my life, and not hate myself/my employer every minute of the workday.

Why I am Considering HPSP:
The usual financial reasons, plus I've always wanted to do something with the military, that didn't involved the risk of death or killing (I'm a conscientious objector, but my faith permits "humanitarian" work in military services). The benefits are great, the possibility of graduating working without debts or malpractice is amazing, and the idea of being an officer and serving my country is certainly tempting to a degree.

Also, when I first began exploring military medicine, I was tempted by the idea that the military, perhaps more so than civilian or private practice, really cares more about what is in the patient's best interest, and not what is the most profitable or economically-viable course of action. I don't like politics, in my personal or professional life, and I'll only play them if it will actually work and I will absolutely have to.

But I really don't want to have to.

Why I am hesitating about HPSP:
The title of this post; namely, having my future mortgaged away without at least knowing what I'm getting myself into. I don't know enough about military medicine to know whether it is or isn't for me, but my biggest concern is about life after HPSP, and life in the military as a whole.

Dress and attire, rules and regulations, orders and drills, these I can learn to live with if I have to. Dictating what or how I practice might be more difficult, especially if I have to trade wrestling with insurance agencies for wrestling with government agencies over a patient's best interests and treatment. GMOs--that aren't in combat zones--and dictating where I practice, that's more reasonable as long as I have at least some input, even if it gets ignored some or most of the time. Until I start a family (if I ever do), I can move whenever and wherever I need to, although I'd certainly prefer not to.

Most of all, I like having the freedom voice my objections to something I find objectionable. I can work, or work within, the system if I have to, but I have to be confident that the system is workable and that I'm not just wating my time. I just want to do my job, to the best of my ability, and todo so in a way that takes care of my patients', and also my own, best interests.

To be honest, I just wanted to know if HPSP might not be the best thing for me, and how difficult life is in Military Med, since I don't really have access to any Military Docs in my area. What I'd like to know is:

[Sorry to be so demanding, but with so much BS and runaround (and I don't mean the degree-programs and PT), it's hard to get a straight answer, even if I spent my whole undergrad on the forums.

Spend the weekend reading the stickies. I doubt anyone will take the time to answer your laundry list of questions, but the bottom line is this.

If you join the military you are subject to the needs of the service. Going into the service as a conscientious objector is not a good idea. Despite the lattitude your faith affords you, if there is a change in the political climate or we enter a conflict you oppose, your stuck and the paperwork to attempt to get out is painful. There are other ways to pay for med school. Find one.

NavyFP,

Thanks for such a speedy response! I've actually been doing just that; I've been reading this and the "Pros and Cons" forums religiously (no pun intended).

My faith actually gives me a pretty wide latitude, as long as I'm not actually in the position of taking lives. And if (God forbid) I'm forced into in a position where I have to defend my colleagues or my patients, I'm sure God will understand. And if not, well we were never really on speaking terms anyways...

I think I will most definitely explore other options, as you said, but aside from taking out loans (which I am loath to do), I'm not sure yet what I could do. I'll look around the other SDN forums for ideas, although if any y'all could link a thread or website or two, I'd be forever grateful.

My one remaining question is about the practice of military medicine itself. I've been reading the forums in the Pros and Cons section, and I gotta say, as an aspiring doctor (but more so as a Citizen and an American), I'm really, really concerned. Is it really as bad as people are saying? I have a lot of friends who are in the service, and all this talk has kind of gotten me worried. I mean, chalk it up to youthful naivete if you want, but I have a hard time fathoming how any government, no matter how corrupt, inept, or ineffectual it might be, could brook such an abysmal state of affairs especially in a time of war.

Part of me now wants to work in MilMed just for that reason: if not to help make it better (again, youthful naivete), then to at least see for my own eyes how bad it must be.

It's a small part, but it's there...

Does anyone know whether I can get a military service (army probably) to pay for two years of med school with a two year active duty commitment? The HPSP sheet on the army website says a "minimum of two years" but I have hears nothing about a 2 for 2 program.

Originally Posted by Metupash

Does anyone know whether I can get a military service (army probably) to pay for two years of med school with a two year active duty commitment? The HPSP sheet on the army website says a "minimum of two years" but I have hears nothing about a 2 for 2 program.

Yes..............and no. There are 2 year HPSP scholarships. They come with a 2 year training obligation. But...they also have a 3 year minimum service obligation (MSO). Part of the MSO can be discharged during internship, so you could do your internship in the military then payback your time as a GMO for 2 years and be free and clear.

If you take the signing bonus, that incurs a 4 year MSO, so the earliest departure would be internship + 3 years as a GMO.

Adding to the ifs,

If you do a 2 year HPSP and complete a primary care residency (IM, FM, Peds) straight through (reasonably likely) you would incur 2 years for the residency and pay that back at the same time as your HPSP. You would be free and clear with 5 years of active service.

Has anybody else applying had a really hard time with their recruiter. I honestly feel like the guy I've been working with is one of the most disorganized people i've ever worked with, and he regularly makes comments asking if I really want to go through with this because of things like paperwork.

I come from am multi-generational military medicine family. I feel like i'm at least a competitive candidate (3.7gpa,35mcat) yet this guy has given me nothing but a hard time since day 1 (which was actually almost 6 months ago).

Is this pretty typical and I need to suck it up, or did I just get screwed over by my particular recruiter (and I guess still need to just suck it up).

Originally Posted by drcarter77

Has anybody else applying had a really hard time with their recruiter. I honestly feel like the guy I've been working with is one of the most disorganized people i've ever worked with, and he regularly makes comments asking if I really want to go through with this because of things like paperwork.

I come from am multi-generational military medicine family. I feel like i'm at least a competitive candidate (3.7gpa,35mcat) yet this guy has given me nothing but a hard time since day 1 (which was actually almost 6 months ago).

Is this pretty typical and I need to suck it up, or did I just get screwed over by my particular recruiter (and I guess still need to just suck it up).

Get another recruiter! I have been working with three, and all of them have been on top of my questions and application material. You are very competitive and my stats arent as high as yours! So....I would just contact the branch and ask for a different recruiter. Good luck!

Plenty of Army doctors have good experiences. The biggest problem I see with HPSP and the military medical school is that the Army may train you for your desired specialty, then deploy you outside of your specialty, for example, as a brigade surgeon. This is basically, a clerk job with a fancy title--it involves NO surgery. Unfortunately, if you get this tasking during your last year as staff (which I've seen several times), and if you are in any specialty which requires you to actually practice during the year prior to your discharge, you will find yourself unemployable. The Army will be pretty thrilled with this, since they'll sign you on for 3 more years during which they will 'retrain' you. I can tell you, this tasking has been 'awarded' to very good doctors, in fields where the Army is short of specialists. They'll send pathologists, nuclear medicine, dermatology...you name it. Unfortunatley, the civilian world won't always understand the randomness of the Army in making these taskings. It will be assumed that you were a problem child, or that you were incompetent. This is simply not the case.

Originally Posted by SGG

Plenty of Army doctors have good experiences. The biggest problem I see with HPSP and the military medical school is that the Army may train you for your desired specialty, then deploy you outside of your specialty, for example, as a brigade surgeon. This is basically, a clerk job with a fancy title--it involves NO surgery. Unfortunately, if you get this tasking during your last year as staff (which I've seen several times), and if you are in any specialty which requires you to actually practice during the year prior to your discharge, you will find yourself unemployable. The Army will be pretty thrilled with this, since they'll sign you on for 3 more years during which they will 'retrain' you. I can tell you, this tasking has been 'awarded' to very good doctors, in fields where the Army is short of specialists. They'll send pathologists, nuclear medicine, dermatology...you name it. Unfortunatley, the civilian world won't always understand the randomness of the Army in making these taskings. It will be assumed that you were a problem child, or that you were incompetent. This is simply not the case.

I've never seen this happen. No one who intended to get out has stayed in to address skill atrophy. This doesn't make any sense. Not enough cases in the Army so...stay in the Army to get more cases?

I've also never heard of anyone not being able to get a job when they leave. In fact, most people seem to get exactly what they are looking for.

I've been thinking about the HPSP on and off for awhile now and I'm still just not sure. I wonder, though, is it perhaps to late in the game to apply for this year?

Also, I'd like some advice/experiences from HPSP/military medicine folks regarding family dynamics, etc. Really, the only issue that has been keeping me from signing up is that family is fairly important to me. I'm single now, but I would like to get married/start working toward a family in the next 3-5 years - which would put me right at the end of school/begining of residency. What is the life of a HPSP student's SO/wife look like? Obviously deployments are deployments, but I can see real issues with having a career driven SO and finding an appropriate job while following around a HPSP student who's being stationed nationally/internationally come active duty years. Are many SOs/wives stay at home, or do many people simply live apart for some time? Any personal experiences that anyone would care to relate would be wonderful. Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by Krahis

I've been thinking about the HPSP on and off for awhile now and I'm still just not sure. I wonder, though, is it perhaps to late in the game to apply for this year?

Also, I'd like some advice/experiences from HPSP/military medicine folks regarding family dynamics, etc. Really, the only issue that has been keeping me from signing up is that family is fairly important to me. I'm single now, but I would like to get married/start working toward a family in the next 3-5 years - which would put me right at the end of school/begining of residency. What is the life of a HPSP student's SO/wife look like? Obviously deployments are deployments, but I can see real issues with having a career driven SO and finding an appropriate job while following around a HPSP student who's being stationed nationally/internationally come active duty years. Are many SOs/wives stay at home, or do many people simply live apart for some time? Any personal experiences that anyone would care to relate would be wonderful. Thanks in advance!

The Spouse/SO needs to be flexible. They may have to move where gainful employment in their field is limited to non-existent. Some are stay home, others are not. Geographic Bachelorhood is not unheard of. (esp senior levels as kids get to HS)

It can be tough for spouses.

Originally Posted by Krahis

I've been thinking about the HPSP on and off for awhile now and I'm still just not sure. I wonder, though, is it perhaps to late in the game to apply for this year?

Also, I'd like some advice/experiences from HPSP/military medicine folks regarding family dynamics, etc. Really, the only issue that has been keeping me from signing up is that family is fairly important to me. I'm single now, but I would like to get married/start working toward a family in the next 3-5 years - which would put me right at the end of school/begining of residency. What is the life of a HPSP student's SO/wife look like? Obviously deployments are deployments, but I can see real issues with having a career driven SO and finding an appropriate job while following around a HPSP student who's being stationed nationally/internationally come active duty years. Are many SOs/wives stay at home, or do many people simply live apart for some time? Any personal experiences that anyone would care to relate would be wonderful. Thanks in advance!

Look at these links! Ive always believed in learning from other peoples experiences; thats how I made my decision about HPSP. If you want to do it for the money, you will regret it!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...highlight=HPSP
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...highlight=HPSP

There is plenty more if you want to read them, just search HPSP in SDN.

***I know that these links for the most part point out all the negatives, but if you have spoken to a recruiter or looked at the program you should already know all the positives; they are advertised. It is the negatives that are also important to consider. I was in your situation 2 months ago, and even completed almost all the paperwork before finding these forums and deciding against it. I am not anti-military by any means, I just want to have a good medical career and a good family life, without being yanked out of place.
Best of luck!

Originally Posted by drcarter77

Has anybody else applying had a really hard time with their recruiter. I honestly feel like the guy I've been working with is one of the most disorganized people i've ever worked with, and he regularly makes comments asking if I really want to go through with this because of things like paperwork.

I come from am multi-generational military medicine family. I feel like i'm at least a competitive candidate (3.7gpa,35mcat) yet this guy has given me nothing but a hard time since day 1 (which was actually almost 6 months ago).

Is this pretty typical and I need to suck it up, or did I just get screwed over by my particular recruiter (and I guess still need to just suck it up).

Just call him out on it. My recruiter was the same way, I got the station commander (basically his boss) involved. Until you sign the paperwork, you own them. Anyway, most of them want to be helpful but unless you are working with the Air Force Recruiters (who basically specialize in one field of health sciences i.e. they only do medical, or dental...etc)...then you have to realize that the army folks are trying to recruit people into all of the fields at once and really only work in those jobs for 3-4 years then go back their real job in the army (likely doing something completely different).

Anyway, you may just have a total loser as well. If you like him, keep working with him but express your concerns. If you don't like him, kick him to the curb and find someone else in your home town or something.

Originally Posted by Annadoc

Look at these links! Ive always believed in learning from other peoples experiences; thats how I made my decision about HPSP. If you want to do it for the money, you will regret it!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...highlight=HPSP
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...highlight=HPSP

There is plenty more if you want to read them, just search HPSP in SDN.

***I know that these links for the most part point out all the negatives, but if you have spoken to a recruiter or looked at the program you should already know all the positives; they are advertised. It is the negatives that are also important to consider. I was in your situation 2 months ago, and even completed almost all the paperwork before finding these forums and deciding against it. I am not anti-military by any means, I just want to have a good medical career and a good family life, without being yanked out of place.
Best of luck!

My wife and I loved moving our family from place to place in the military. It was exciting. Now that I am in medical school and we are stuck in one place for 4 years we don't know what to do with ourselves. She is a teacher and has no problems finding work. I know of many military docs who have physician spouses who also don't have a problem finding work (although it is a drag to be low on the totem pole every time you move). If your spouse isn't on board with the military, and you intend on staying married, you probably shouldn't do it. Also, if you are only 21 and aren't really sure where you want to go in life, you may be best served to be cautious in signing away too many years of your future all at once. Wait until you are sure, wait until you have shadowed a military doc or at least talked to a few on the phone, etc. These forums are just a small part of the research you need to be doing.

Anyway, only sign up if you think you would enjoy serving those who serve our country. If you are just thinking about you and how you will benefit financially, you may find yourself unhappy once you start "paying back your time." It isn't for everyone. In fact, I think the majority of my medical school class would hate it for a variety of reasons.

Originally Posted by drcarter77

Has anybody else applying had a really hard time with their recruiter. I honestly feel like the guy I've been working with is one of the most disorganized people i've ever worked with, and he regularly makes comments asking if I really want to go through with this because of things like paperwork.

I come from am multi-generational military medicine family. I feel like i'm at least a competitive candidate (3.7gpa,35mcat) yet this guy has given me nothing but a hard time since day 1 (which was actually almost 6 months ago).

Is this pretty typical and I need to suck it up, or did I just get screwed over by my particular recruiter (and I guess still need to just suck it up).

Is he enlisted?

Originally Posted by NoMoreAMCAS

Is he enlisted?

no hes a LCDR, its really quite amazing, i've been continuing to work with the guy because I have quite a bit of time and effort (and paperwork) invested with his offices now but every interaction leaves me shaking my head. I was told by some of my family members that its good that i'm experiencing some of the military bureaucracy now so I know what I'm getting into a little better. oh well.

I can't find a definitive answer on this one...For HPSP, Does time in med school/internship count towards rank/pay but not retirement?

Originally Posted by freubr

I can't find a definitive answer on this one...For HPSP, Does time in med school/internship count towards rank/pay but not retirement?

My pay date on virtual MPF is listed as the date I graduated med school. You are "recommisioned" on your graduation date as an O-3. Med school does not count for service time or pay (unless you serve 20 years)

Originally Posted by sethco

My pay date on virtual MPF is listed as the date I graduated med school. You are "recommisioned" on your graduation date as an O-3. Med school does not count for service time or pay (unless you serve 20 years)

I see. So what would a GMO's salary look like? Does the internship year count?

If I start the ball rolling for the scholarship and everything is not completed by the time I start my second year in August, will I still be able to get the first semester covered? Is there a cut off for paying for the first semester? I have heard that as long as you are commissioned prior to completing the semester it can be covered. I also heard that there could be some problems if it is beyond the end of the fiscal year. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Originally Posted by mdmed2012

If I start the ball rolling for the scholarship and everything is not completed by the time I start my second year in August, will I still be able to get the first semester covered? Is there a cut off for paying for the first semester? I have heard that as long as you are commissioned prior to completing the semester it can be covered. I also heard that there could be some problems if it is beyond the end of the fiscal year. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Fiscal year is not as important as end of term. If you sign before the term ends, the tuition, fees, etc are covered. No stipend until you sign, though.

Originally Posted by elderjack21

Until you sign the paperwork, you own them.
.

Dr. Carter,

Although the above may be true, once you're in, THEY OWN YOU.

You are getting a glimpse of the incompetence some physicians of rank that may be your boss exhibit as part of military medicine. Unless its objectionable to any military cheerleaders on this forum, my suggestion is you really do your research. Talk to as many active duty physicians as you can, ask as many questions as you can, realize that depending on the branch you choose, you may not be able to train in the specialty you want, or practice that specialty to the full extent. Read these forums thoroughly, especially pro's and con's.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by freubr

I see. So what would a GMO's salary look like? Does the internship year count?

For a fresh GMO right out of internship, without any prior service...

Base Pay (as O-3 with <2 years of service) +
BAH (dependent on area) +
BAS +
VSP (5K/year) +
ASP (15K/year) +
Flight/Dive Pay (if applicable)

Salary ranges because of the BAH and Flight/Dive Pay, but expect to be making about 70K/year before taxes

Originally Posted by sethco

For a fresh GMO right out of internship, without any prior service...

Base Pay (as O-3 with <2 years of service) +
BAH (dependent on area) +
BAS +
VSP (5K/year) +
ASP (15K/year) +
Flight/Dive Pay (if applicable)

Salary ranges because of the BAH and Flight/Dive Pay, but expect to be making about 70K/year before taxes

thanks for the breakdown

Stipend goes up to $1992/month starting July 1st, 2009. Yipee...still moving in the right direction.