Serious Questions for those who have taken USMLE!

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This is not a troll post. Long time lurker, first time poster.

As an IMG coming straight from high school currently studying in India, the educational system here does not at all prepare you for doing well on the USMLE. I wanted to ask those (US medical students) that are currently preparing and/or have recently taken it two questions:

1)How long do you think it would take a person with no basic science background to score a 90+ on Step I without taking Kaplan courses?

2)Assuming one doesn't read all of the "mandatory" books in the curriculum (Big Robbins, Guyton) is it possible to realistically expect anywhere near this range of score by just memorizing/repeating FA, HY, Goljian and doing 10,000 Questions in addition to UWorld and Qbank?

[howelljolly]

Indian trained doctors do it all the time. . Noone can answer your question. I can only say that it is possible. It depends on how you study. For me personally FA and HY were no helpful. Other things were. You have to find out what is tested on Step1 and study it in whatever way works best for you.

[McGillGrad]

Anything is possible.

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Originally Posted by howelljolly

Indian trained doctors do it all the time. . Noone can answer your question. I can only say that it is possible. It depends on how you study. For me personally FA and HY were no helpful. Other things were. You have to find out what is tested on Step1 and study it in whatever way works best for you.

The Indian trained doctors that are practicing in the US now got in because at the time they took the ECFMG, it was much much easier than today's USMLE.

The exam from what I know and have heard is much more molecular based and tests an individuals understanding of fundamentals of physiology, pathology in almost all questions and then integrates other subjects like pharm/micro with others, but the bulk of the exam is centered on Physio and Path.

From your experience, what books did you find to be helpful for these two areas and what type of study plan did you use to get through the material?

I have about 3 years to study for this exam and need to basically set up an intense schedule. Schools in India force you to memorize and then vomit whatever you read onto the paper for exams. Academic Regurgitation

[McGillGrad]

It was always the USMLE. There is no such thing as the ECFMG exam.

Originally Posted by relapse

The Indian trained doctors that are practicing in the US now got in because at the time they took the ECFMG, it was much much easier than today's USMLE.

[howelljolly]

Originally Posted by McGillGrad

It was always the USMLE. There is no such thing as the ECFMG exam.

No you are wrong. Zip it.

[relapse]

Originally Posted by relapse

The Indian trained doctors that are practicing in the US now got in because at the time they took the ECFMG, it was much much easier than today's USMLE.

The exam from what I know and have heard is much more molecular based and tests an individuals understanding of fundamentals of physiology, pathology in almost all questions and then integrates other subjects like pharm/micro with others, but the bulk of the exam is centered on Physio and Path.

From your experience, what books did you find to be helpful for these two areas and what type of study plan did you use to get through the material?

I have about 3 years to study for this exam and need to basically set up an intense schedule. Schools in India force you to memorize and then vomit whatever you read onto the paper for exams. Academic Regurgitation

bump

[howelljolly]

Originally Posted by relapse

The Indian trained doctors that are practicing in the US now got in because at the time they took the ECFMG, it was much much easier than today's USMLE.

The exam from what I know and have heard is much more molecular based and tests an individuals understanding of fundamentals of physiology, pathology in almost all questions and then integrates other subjects like pharm/micro with others, but the bulk of the exam is centered on Physio and Path.

From your experience, what books did you find to be helpful for these two areas and what type of study plan did you use to get through the material?

I have about 3 years to study for this exam and need to basically set up an intense schedule. Schools in India force you to memorize and then vomit whatever you read onto the paper for exams. Academic Regurgitation

True, many of the Indian docs in practice in the US today took the FLEX through the ECFMG, and it was a bit different from the USMLE.

However, there are still many many Indian trained docs that score a 99 on the Step 1 these days. As an expert in the USMLE (whatever that means) said, its a numbers game. There are so many Indian trained docs taking the exam that quite a few get a 99. Anyhow.

The USMLE Step 1 does test molecular bio and the fundamentals of phys, etc etc. as well as integrates these subjects. That does make it complicated, because you might know... say... the disease they are talking about, and maayyyyybe the bug that probably caused it. But if you dont know the mechanism of the drug which attacks the bug... or are not sure of the drug they are implying (bcs they dont spell out which one it is) or arent sure of the bug which you need to kill (because they dont spell that out either).... youre sunk.

Anyway. You'll need to learn psychiatry.. they dont teach that much in India, and thats where foreign docs have a problem on the Step1. Since you have plenty of time, you can start with BRS or NMS review books for each of the 7 or so Basic Science subjects. They have notes and questions.

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Originally Posted by howelljolly

True, many of the Indian docs in practice in the US today took the FLEX through the ECFMG, and it was a bit different from the USMLE.

However, there are still many many Indian trained docs that score a 99 on the Step 1 these days. As an expert in the USMLE (whatever that means) said, its a numbers game. There are so many Indian trained docs taking the exam that quite a few get a 99. Anyhow.

The USMLE Step 1 does test molecular bio and the fundamentals of phys, etc etc. as well as integrates these subjects. That does make it complicated, because you might know... say... the disease they are talking about, and maayyyyybe the bug that probably caused it. But if you dont know the mechanism of the drug which attacks the bug... or are not sure of the drug they are implying (bcs they dont spell out which one it is) or arent sure of the bug which you need to kill (because they dont spell that out either).... youre sunk.

Anyway. You'll need to learn psychiatry.. they dont teach that much in India, and thats where foreign docs have a problem on the Step1. Since you have plenty of time, you can start with BRS or NMS review books for each of the 7 or so Basic Science subjects. They have notes and questions.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have that much basic science background yet have quite a few of the NMS series basic science books as a friend of mine who scored a 99/262 on the boards had recommended them to me.

In your humble opinion, do you think that it is wise to start out with the NMS series as a reference?

For clarification, I have the following NMS series:
Pathology, Physiology, Histology, Genetics, Biochemistry, Clinical Anatomy, Neuroanatomy

From the aforementioned, what plan would you advise to start out with and expand from utilizing the NMS series?

[howelljolly]

Originally Posted by relapse

Thanks for the reply. I don't have that much basic science background yet have quite a few of the NMS series basic science books as a friend of mine who scored a 99/262 on the boards had recommended them to me.

In your humble opinion, do you think that it is wise to start out with the NMS series as a reference?

For clarification, I have the following NMS series:
Pathology, Physiology, Histology, Genetics, Biochemistry, Clinical Anatomy, Neuroanatomy

From the aforementioned, what plan would you advise to start out with and expand from utilizing the NMS series?

What do you mean by "as a reference"? And so I understand - are you saying that you are not taking Anatomy, Phys, Biochem, etc. in your med school as independent classes?

I would start by reading the actual text books. But if I were to start with the NMS series... I'd read the notes. If something was unclear, I'd go to the text book and read that bit. Then I'd do the questions, and whatever wasnt clear - back to the text book.

Then I'd do more questions.

But I think this whole process would be pretty inefficient if you didnt read the textbooks first.

Anatomy - Moore for gross, Moore for embryo, something for histology. Grays Anatomy has it all in one.

Physio - Guyton. Ganong is great, but doesnt explain the basics to well. Many folks like Costanzo... much smaller, understandable, comprehensive

Psych - Synopsis of Psych by Kaplan (the psychiatrist, not the board review)

Biochem - Lippincotts review is about all I could handle. I dont remember the name of the text.

Path - Robbins

Pharm - Trevor & Katzung. G&G if you are crazy.

Microbio - Lange's Microbiology by Levinson. I would start with the Immunology chapters.

Like I said, for me, HY, and FA dont help. but thats me.

[McGillGrad]

Originally Posted by howelljolly

No you are wrong. Zip it.

Actually, you're an idiot and you prove with your own post.

There is no ECFMG exam. The ECFMG is an organization, not an exam.

The FLEX exam has not been use in over 10 years. It has no bearing on this discussion, genius.

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Originally Posted by McGillGrad

Actually, you're an idiot and you prove with your own post.

There is no ECFMG exam. The ECFMG is an organization, not an exam.

The FLEX exam has not been use in over 10 years. It has no bearing on this discussion, genius.

The Indian doctors i'm talking about have taken the exam over 25 years ago McGill.

In regards to your post Howell, I have finished my first year in which they have "taught" Anatomy, Physiology, and Biochemistry but in an Indian fashion (mug up/rote memorization). Indian teachers don't "teach" but rather take what is in the book and put it on the overhead projector. Teaching is not reading two lines from a book to the student but rather whats in between them.

The problem here is that the local teachers think that their local books are gods gift to earth when in fact theyre absolute trash. Everything from the pictures to the descriptions are not only factually wrong sometimes but morally wrong.

[FreakofMeds]

All I know is Indian IMGs continue to form the bulk of the IMG residents in the US today. That means those people had to have taken the USMLEs within the past 5 years, and the large number of them capable of succeeding through the USMLEs only proves that it is possible.

The thing is not really how easy or hard the USMLEs are compared to a long time ago, but the competitiveness for IMGs has grown exponentially in the last 10 years, especially with the slow but definite increase in AMGs, while at the same time a lack of expansion in the number of residency positions.

[howelljolly]

Originally Posted by McGillGrad

Actually, you're an idiot and you prove with your own post.

There is no ECFMG exam. The ECFMG is an organization, not an exam.

The FLEX exam has not been use in over 10 years. It has no bearing on this discussion, genius.

Thats nice.

In fact, there was such a thing as the ECFMG Exam. It was given during the 1970s. With a number of mergers it was replaced by the FLEX, which was subsequently replaced by the USMLE.

Replying on the thread with "It was always the USMLE. There is no such thing as the ECFMG exam." is completely unhelpful. Id doesnt answer the OPs question. Additionally as I said, YOU ARE WRONG. There was such a thing. And it is this, or the FLEX that Relapse was referring to.

And by the simple fact that Relapse made a reference to this exam in his second installment on this thread, it has a bearing on this discussion. He was referring to his familiarity with the old exam (from relatives or somesuch), and asking for advice on the USMLE, which he is unfamiliar with.

YOU ARE WRONG. And this post shows that you are also profoundly stupid. All you ever do is search threads for posts where someone isn't aware of something, or mis-spoke, and you insert a snarky unhelpful comment. Most people who read this thread understood that Relapse was referring to one of these older exams that he has some familiarity with. Doesnt matter if he called it the ECFMG, FLEX, ABCD, or LMNOP. Anyone with any sense would let it slide and simply answer the question. This is not a court of law where people are taken on their exact words.

So understand these points, you ignoramus.

1. There was an ECFMG exam
2. The old exam has some bearing bcs. the OP brought it up.
3. You are wrong.

[McGillGrad]

Originally Posted by howelljolly

So understand these points, you ignoramus.

1. There was an ECFMG exam
2. The old exam has some bearing bcs. the OP brought it up.
3. You are wrong.

You seem to like being wrong. As you wish, princess. Be wrong all you want.

[Captopril]

As an IMG from the subcontinent, I feel like I have some insight I can relay to the OP"

You can definitely score a 90+ w/o having a tight grasp on your basics. The stuff you learn in India during your basic science is almost inapplicable on USMLE. I'd say about 10% of the stuff I learned during my 1st-3rd years of med school are actually represented on the USMLE. This exam is made for American kids so you have to adjust to their curriculum.

Also, it's definitely doable without the Kaplan course. However, after taking the 2 month course myself, I realized that it is very difficult to get through the Kaplan books without some guidance (you can't expect to memorize every detail therefore you need someone telling you what to focus on). I think doing the Kaplan videos is good enough for that.

Do UW, read Goljan, memorize FA, and you will be sure to repeat the success of the thousands of Indian IMGs that have come before you.

-Your Friendly Neighborhood Pakistani

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Originally Posted by Captopril

As an IMG from the subcontinent, I feel like I have some insight I can relay to the OP"

You can definitely score a 90+ w/o having a tight grasp on your basics. The stuff you learn in India during your basic science is almost inapplicable on USMLE. I'd say about 10% of the stuff I learned during my 1st-3rd years of med school are actually represented on the USMLE. This exam is made for American kids so you have to adjust to their curriculum.

Also, it's definitely doable without the Kaplan course. However, after taking the 2 month course myself, I realized that it is very difficult to get through the Kaplan books without some guidance (you can't expect to memorize every detail therefore you need someone telling you what to focus on). I think doing the Kaplan videos is good enough for that.

Do UW, read Goljan, memorize FA, and you will be sure to repeat the success of the thousands of Indian IMGs that have come before you.

-Your Friendly Neighborhood Pakistani

Captopril, when did you take the test and how did you do on it if you don't mind me asking?

I feel the same way as the education system in india is trained for indians. Regurgitation won't get you anywhere for the USMLE though. Problem for IMG's is the fact that they can't memorize for modern day USMLE because it is heavily based on a fundamental understanding of your basics as the questions on there are multifaceted and integrate a lot of different areas of medicine. Molecular biology is being more and more emphasized as well.

Agreed that you don't have to read Guyton, Robbins, and every other big book to do well on the USMLE, but what do you suggest doing in order to maximize your score while being efficient with your time?

[howelljolly]

Originally Posted by Captopril

As an IMG from the subcontinent, I feel like I have some insight I can relay to the OP"

You can definitely score a 90+ w/o having a tight grasp on your basics. The stuff you learn in India during your basic science is almost inapplicable on USMLE. I'd say about 10% of the stuff I learned during my 1st-3rd years of med school are actually represented on the USMLE. This exam is made for American kids so you have to adjust to their curriculum.

Also, it's definitely doable without the Kaplan course. However, after taking the 2 month course myself, I realized that it is very difficult to get through the Kaplan books without some guidance (you can't expect to memorize every detail therefore you need someone telling you what to focus on). I think doing the Kaplan videos is good enough for that.

Do UW, read Goljan, memorize FA, and you will be sure to repeat the success of the thousands of Indian IMGs that have come before you.

-Your Friendly Neighborhood Pakistani

Very true - and some kaplan books more than others. I found the anatomy to be particularly impossible without the lecture. Some of the other's lost a lot of meaning without the lecture - its in the Kaplan notes as a one-line seemingly pointless bit, but the lecturer turns it into an important concept.

[Captopril]

Originally Posted by relapse

Captopril, when did you take the test and how did you do on it if you don't mind me asking?

I feel the same way as the education system in india is trained for indians. Regurgitation won't get you anywhere for the USMLE though. Problem for IMG's is the fact that they can't memorize for modern day USMLE because it is heavily based on a fundamental understanding of your basics as the questions on there are multifaceted and integrate a lot of different areas of medicine. Molecular biology is being more and more emphasized as well.

Agreed that you don't have to read Guyton, Robbins, and every other big book to do well on the USMLE, but what do you suggest doing in order to maximize your score while being efficient with your time?

I'm actually about to take the test in the coming month (I've been in this forum forever, keep delaying my exam...one of the pitfalls of not having a hard deadline).

[relapse]

Originally Posted by Captopril

I'm actually about to take the test in the coming month (I've been in this forum forever, keep delaying my exam...one of the pitfalls of not having a hard deadline).

good luck!

[relapse]

where did you go for med school captopril?