DO residency or take my chances?

[digitlnoize]

Originally Posted by jumpingjax

Your schools performance on the NCLEX is irrelevant. And anyone can throw out anecdotal bs about step 1 like you have.

Oh, I get it. You're saying that the COMLEX is soooo easy, it's like the NCLEX. That's an intelligent jab, right there.

The bottom line is that everyone with half a brain knows that the test score does not make the doctor. Does anyone judge their colleagues by their SAT, MCAT, or USMLE score. No. That would be stupid. Just as stupid, in fact, as judging them by their initials.

If I had statistics on USMLE Step I, I would pass them along, but I don't. Being a DO school, we don't collect them. I can tell you that we have had VERY good match lists (especially by "DO standards") and have performed very well on both the DO and MD boards. Believe me or not. It doesn't matter to me. I'm not looking for your acceptance.

Doing a good job for my patients and my family is all I care about. I have no desire to try and sway the mind of a bigot. You probably hate FMGs and black people too

I went to DO school because I'd like to be a doctor before I die, and I felt that since it was cheaper, warmer, nicer, safer, and better, that it would be in my best interest to go there. Please feel free to let me know if you ever become a PD anywhere, and I'll make sure not to apply to your program.

[Surfer]

Originally Posted by digitlnoize

I felt that since it was cheaper, warmer, nicer, safer, and better, that it would be in my best interest to go there.

Don't forget easier. I'm amazed when I meet DO students that tell me they never took overnight call while in medical school. (see castafari's post earlier about not being required to take call while on trauma!)

Again, its interesting that i'm being hammered for saying DO students shouldn't be allowed to take the USMLE, or enter MD residencies. Funny thing is, MD students can't take the COMLEX or enter DO residencies (not that they'd want to). Apparently the DO higherups recognize the importance of not blurring the professional boundaries. So you hammer me for saying exactly what your professional board implements!

but I guess here's the real question: How many students would fork over the DO tuition, if they knew they'd never be able to enter an MD residency??

[Eta Carinae]

Doing a good job for my patients and my family is all I care about. I have no desire to try and sway the mind of a bigot. You probably hate FMGs and black people too

You have no clue...he hates jews, homos, bi's, trannies, white people and job-stealing illegal immigrants too. He scares me

[digitlnoize]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Don't forget easier. I'm amazed when I meet DO students that tell me they never took overnight call while in medical school. (see castafari's post earlier about not being required to take call while on trauma!)

I agree, that's absurd. I have 3rd year friends on rotations now, and believe me...they most certainly take call! Who gets away with that!

I'm not saying there aren't crappy DO schools. There certainly are. I just think it should also be remembered that there are crappy MD schools too. Just like there are great DO's and crappy DO's. Great MD's and crappy MD's. Great IMG's and crappy IMG's. Stupid _____ people and Smart _____ people.

Again, its interesting that i'm being hammered for saying DO students shouldn't be allowed to take the USMLE, or enter MD residencies. Funny thing is, MD students can't take the COMLEX or enter DO residencies (not that they'd want to). Apparently the DO higherups recognize the importance of not blurring the professional boundaries. So you hammer me for saying exactly what your professional board implements!

No, I agree with you here. But you kind of have it backwards. DO residencies should be opened to MD's. I'm actually fine with that. As you say, it's only fair. Although, I think they'd have a hard time doing well on COMLEX without knowing any OMM. Doing it your way just creates more division and animosity in a profession that needs to unite.

I also agree that the DO leadership is a bit out of touch. I would like the see less division between the two professions, but the people currently in charge are "older" and there has been much animosity between MD's and DO's over the last century. Old grudges...

Listen, everyone knows that the things the AOA spouts about as the "DO difference" are crap. "DO's treat the whole patient." Well, yeah. We do. So do MD's. They are just trying to market themselves as an alternative. I, personally, don't think that it's working.

but I guess here's the real question: How many students would fork over the DO tuition, if they knew they'd never be able to enter an MD residency??

It depends. What specialty are you talking about. If it's pathology, then no budding pathologist would go to DO school...last I checked, there weren't any residencies. But IM, FM, EM...I would have no problem doing a DO residency.

Again, I will remind you that my "expensive DO tuition" (out of state) is cheaper than any of my 3 in-state MD schools would have been. By between $2k-10k per year. I saved $8k-40k by going to DO school (plus the lost year(s) of delayed future salary by waiting for an MD school to accept my old ass).

Let's also not forget that there are some advantages to DO schools:

1. Earlier "patient" contact. Some MD schools begin pt contact on day one, but many do not. DO students have OMM lab weekly, where we spend alot of time palpating body structures on our classmates. While people can debate the validity of certain aspects of OMM, I personally feel that all the time spent palpating has improved my willingness to get more "hands-on" with patients.

2. Community Rotations. Some people count this as a disadvantage, but I am not one of them. I will work one-on-one with attendings for all of 3rd year and much of 4th year. I will 1st assist on surgery. This type of contact and one-on-one teaching goes much farther, IMO, than getting the scraps left over by the Residents and 4th year students with whom you're fighting. Also, less scut. Aside from that, I plan on practicing in a community setting, so I think it will be better to learn in that setting as well. There is a big difference in academic practice and private practice, and I don't understand why so many people are so keen to spend years learning how to operate in a system so drastically different from the one they'll have to learn once they graduate and enter the "real world." I will be in that Real World from Day 1. For those who are interested in academics and research, this may not be ideal. But for people like me, who just want to practice medicine, it's perfect.

[digitlnoize]

Originally Posted by Eta Carinae

You have no clue...he hates jews, homos, bi's, trannies, white people and job-stealing illegal immigrants too. He scares me

It's people like this that give Republicans a bad name. For the record, I'm a Republican who supports jews, homo's, bi's, trannies, white people, black people, and...well...I'll support the job-stealing immigrants if they become legal...just do the damn paperwork. I know people that have immigrated, it's not that hard. Just fill out the damn forms. Sheesh...

[nlfru]

Originally Posted by digitlnoize

It's people like this that give Republicans a bad name. For the record, I'm a Republican who supports jews, homo's, bi's, trannies, white people, black people, and...well...I'll support the job-stealing immigrants if they become legal...just do the damn paperwork. I know people that have immigrated, it's not that hard. Just fill out the damn forms. Sheesh...

You seem more libertarian.... socially liberal and fiscally conservative

[digitlnoize]

Originally Posted by nlfru

You seem more libertarian.... socially liberal and fiscally conservative

Probably true...but they're not a real party...yet. Not that it matters...I have no money to support anyone with, and won't for a loooooong time. I could support them with my vote, but there just aren't enough of them yet...

I actually think that Libertarian-ism is the future of the Republican party...as my generation grows into power, you're going to see a MUCH more socially liberal Republican party. We are capable of understanding and accepting diversity. My wife and I are (probably bad...lol) Catholics, and have gay friends, who we don't lecture or expect to convert or change. It's a Brave New World.

[castafari]

Surfer, I don't know if it is even worth responding to you as you are such a freaking prick on here. The rotation I was referring to that did not require trauma call WAS AT AN MD RESIDENCY PROGRAM!! The rotations that I have been on that have required the most call from students have been DO!! Why don't you get your facts straight before you put us down you ignorant @$$!!!

[castafari]

Thank you Panetrain and others for your intelligent and helpful responses. I really do appreciate it.

[Prof Moriarty]

Originally Posted by castafari

Surfer, I don't know if it is even worth responding to you as you are such a freaking prick on here. The rotation I was referring to that did not require trauma call WAS AT AN MD RESIDENCY PROGRAM!! The rotations that I have been on that have required the most call from students have been DO!! Why don't you get your facts straight before you put us down you ignorant @$$!!!

Seriously guys, it's like trying to argue with a crazy person. The guy has no regard for facts or reality. This is not the kind of person other people like to be around.

Here's what you do: Click on "Surfer", scroll down to where it says "Add Surfer to ignore list." Click. Done. The thread cleans up nice.

If I wanted to be compassionate, I would suggest the guy gets some professional help.

[Mista Suprane]

Originally Posted by Surfer

Don't forget easier. I'm amazed when I meet DO students that tell me they never took overnight call while in medical school.

what's funny amongst all your comments comparing DO training (the weaknesses of which i will agree, are definitely true in many cases), and how they shouldn't be able to do MD residencies, is that you're losing sight of the real issue:

people that matter (read: program directors) at many top programs just DON'T CARE. i am a DO. i will be chief resident next year -- at hopkins. two of the three current chiefs here are DOs. one of the chiefs the year before them was a DO as well. in addition to hopkins, check out mayo, michigan, cleveland clinic, iowa, uchicago, bwh, and pitt to name a few. DOs at all of those programs (and recent DO chief residents at pitt, uchicago, and bwh).

it may be time for you to examine the fact that perhaps all the differences you are pointing out are simply irrelevant, as DOs continue to be accepted into top anesthesia programs, because most intelligent people that make the actual decisions about whom to accept into residency simply don't agree with you. maybe when you become a residency program director, you can reject all DOs that apply, and complain loudly about their inferior training to anyone who will listen. sounds like a lot of fun, you could probably sell tickets.

so you can continue to publicly enjoy your misconceptions. but despite my voodoo degree and "easier" medical school training, i think my credentials finishing residency will be better than anything yours could possibly be.

[Eta Carinae]

Originally Posted by Prof Moriarty

Seriously guys, it's like trying to argue with a crazy person. The guy has no regard for facts or reality. This is not the kind of person other people like to be around.

Here's what you do: Click on "Surfer", scroll down to where it says "Add Surfer to ignore list." Click. Done. The thread cleans up nice.

If I wanted to be compassionate, I would suggest the guy gets some professional help.

[UWM01]

man, as long as you're not a tool it doesn't matter if you are DO or MD because in the end, your name in the OR is "anesthesia".