Question for Military Recruiters and anybody w/ info

[funshi baba]

Hello,
I am a 4th yr DO med student who didnt match into general surgery categorical position on monday. Since then i have been calling trying to scramble into a prelim/transition spot but with no success. I am gradually coming to d realization that i will never find a spot. So i am left with a decision to do something else, IM, family med. Well before i succumb to that, i figure i will give one last try.
This is to any military recruiter or anyone with any knowledge of it out there. I will be willing to consider a military spot for prelim surgery if available. My goal is to do surgery, i am open to spending an extra yr for prelim and reapply next yr but all i ask for is a chance. If anyone have any idea abt this process, pls do share. I'll really appreciate it.

My stats:
graduate in may
USMLE1 216
USMLE2 210
COMLEX 1589
COMLEX2 450
COMLEX 2 PE pending

All taken once.
Thanks in advance

[teacherman84]

The military match has already occured and as i understand it, military gme spots are only for usuhs and hpsp students

[GeoLeoX]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

I will be willing to consider a military spot for prelim surgery if available.

Wow. This is absolutely the worst idea I have seen in a long time. DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE IN THE MILITARY. I also have a very hard time believing that ALL the spots are filled. Presuming that you participated in the NRMP match there should be quite a few unfilled spots out there. Last year there were 461 prelim GS and 25 prelim transitional spots unfilled after the match.

As previously mentioned military spots are for the military and the match was months ago.

[funshi baba]

Thanks. Good or bad idea, i guess i wouldnt have known if i dont say it out. Well i am parked in front of the computer following every minute of the NRMP list and watching it slowly dissipate away. I really want to believe there is still some spots out there. Considering there are only 6progs left at this point. I am also trying to find transition spot. I am still calling and searching hoping to find something, both DO or MD.

I would never know if i dont exhaust all possibilities. It will be hard if i have to walk away from surgery. will keep hoping.

[AF M4]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

Thanks. Good or bad idea, i guess i wouldnt have known if i dont say it out. Well i am parked in front of the computer following every minute of the NRMP list and watching it slowly dissipate away. I really want to believe there is still some spots out there. Considering there are only 6progs left at this point. I am also trying to find transition spot. I am still calling and searching hoping to find something, both DO or MD.

I would never know if i dont exhaust all possibilities. It will be hard if i have to walk away from surgery. will keep hoping.

Dude, no, sorry, if you're not in the military already then there's no way those spots are available for you. This is for military organization-specific reasons; it wouldn't matter if your Step I was >280. Good luck in your endeavors.

[Gastrapathy]

Originally Posted by AF M4

Dude, no, sorry, if you're not in the military already then there's no way those spots are available for you. This is for military organization-specific reasons; it wouldn't matter if your Step I was >280. Good luck in your endeavors.

Not totally true (probably true for this year because the GMESB is over). Anyone can apply to the GMESB and, if selected, take a commission. It's entirely conceivable that someone could get a noncompetitive residency this way. You'd need to do some groundwork and arrange interviews, etc, but its not impossible that he/she could get into the military next year.

And, for anyone who says its a bad idea to join, realize that the OP is in a way worse situation without some residency. A medical degree is completely useless without at least an internship and a license (and, really, a residency).

As for joining now, I doubt its possible but I don't know for sure. If you really want to find out, I guess I would start by calling the surgery department at one of the big MTFs and ask to speak with the PD. He/she could find out the answer if inclined to do so.

[AF M4]

Originally Posted by Gastrapathy

Not totally true (probably true for this year because the GMESB is over). Anyone can apply to the GMESB and, if selected, take a commission. It's entirely conceivable that someone could get a noncompetitive residency this way. You'd need to do some groundwork and arrange interviews, etc, but its not impossible that he/she could get into the military next year.

And, for anyone who says its a bad idea to join, realize that the OP is in a way worse situation without some residency. A medical degree is completely useless without at least an internship and a license (and, really, a residency).

As for joining now, I doubt its possible but I don't know for sure. If you really want to find out, I guess I would start by calling the surgery department at one of the big MTFs and ask to speak with the PD. He/she could find out the answer if inclined to do so.

Lol, you are a contrarian one. Well sure, maaaaaybe he could go and try the above plan, and after about a dozen different and very large dominoes tipped over just right, maaaaaaybe he could start prelim surgery this year. Also, I have a date with Megan Fox tomorrow night.

There are 461 prelim surgery spots open in the scramble this year. The OP's scores are fine, and he is MUCH better off running that list in the scramble rather than wasting time calling recruiters for a likely wild goose chase.

Also, to the OP, there will likely still be many open prelim surgery slots even after the scramble. Check the NRMP reports after the match dust has settled, call the PDs of the available programs, visit them if you want, then go ahead and sign with your favorite. Let 'em know you're interested in going categorical, work your butt off during internship, and they might just have you stick around.

[GeoLeoX]

Originally Posted by Gastrapathy

And, for anyone who says its a bad idea to join, realize that the OP is in a way worse situation without some residency. A medical degree is completely useless without at least an internship and a license (and, really, a residency).

The OP stated,

"I will be WILLING (emphasis mine) to consider a military spot for prelim surgery if available".

I don't care how you spin it, that is a formula for creating yet another physician who thinks they are getting screwed by the military.

[a1qwerty55]

The obvious question is why didn't you match in any surgical program? There has to be some reason. We (the military) seem to be picking up more and more "special projects" my guess is you either have some big academic, performance or personality issues. The military GME system shouldn't be a dumping ground the the legions of unmatched civilian DO and MD school graduates.

[funshi baba]

Originally Posted by a1qwerty55

my guess is you either have some big academic, performance or personality issues.

Wow, .... and this is the only and absolute reason why cadidate dont match into a categorical spot. That's a good educated guess, u should be proud of urself.

[dwb8p]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

Wow, .... and this is the only and absolute reason why cadidate dont match into a categorical spot. That's a good educated guess, u should be proud of urself.

A well thought out rebuttal, funshi baba.

[IgD]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

Wow, .... and this is the only and absolute reason why cadidate dont match into a categorical spot. That's a good educated guess, u should be proud of urself.

I think you should be honest and tell everyone what happened if you want the best advice, especially to a forum regular who was trying to help you out.

[funshi baba]

Originally Posted by IgD

I think you should be honest and tell everyone what happened if you want the best advice, especially to a forum regular who was trying to help you out.

Quick highlight: DO student, skipped AOA match for NRMP gen surg. Took USMLE 1, same time as comlex 1 (scores in intial post), took comlex 2, then few months USMLE 2. all passed at once. 4th yr SUb-Is in order:UNC-vasc surg, loyola-trauma/CC (took USMLE step 2 during this time), MSSM-surgonc, carolina med ctr- general surgery, GI wakemed (at this point its dec). u get the gist by now.

In all my Sub-I, i got nothing less than 85% on my clinical eval. I am in top half of my class. Applied to 47progs, invited for 6 interview, 5 at a community prog. Ranked 6, only one academic prog in d ROL, ranked it 3rd. Sent thank you notes, love letter, the whole kiss ass moves.

In hind sight, first red flag for me which i always knew was my scores, so to increase my chances i applied broad and to comm progs. places i absolutely refused to apply to where MI, WV and Cali. everything in btw i did.

I knew they would always be a possibilty of not matching, that i already made peace with eventhough i was still very hopeful. what i couldnt come to terms with was how difficult it was to get prelim spot.

The idea of military option actually came from a close classmate that actually help me scramble on tues who was actually in the army. He told me to post on this forum and see what the opinions were.

So for a comment such as that made by the "regular poster", i felt it was totally uncalled for, insensitive, and speak to no credit of him/her. I have gained from the discussion on this thread up till that point.

[JackADeli]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

...The idea of military option actually came from a close classmate ...actually in the army...

I appreciate there is sometimes good information and general advice throughout these forums. However, scrambling into a military residency from a non-military/civilian status is a very specialized exercise... A generalized forum, even one that focuses on military aspects of medicine is a little bit removed from the intricacies of what you ask. Your budy in the army would have done you a better service by connecting you with a healthcare military recruiter. A recruiter will have far better chance of knowing the feasibility, technique, loop holes, and hoops to achieve this option.... I dare say, the first recruiter you speak to on this will probably say, "no, it's not possible... well, let me call my senior recruiter with more experience to find out...."

Military residency requires a "commission", this will require military clearance and background check. You will also have to undergo a complete military physical fitness examination. The process is not quick. I dare say, you would be hard pressed to find someone honestly describe it as a "scramble".....

[funshi baba]

Originally Posted by JackADeli

I appreciate there is sometimes good information and general advice throughout these forums. However, scrambling into a military residency from a non-military/civilian status is a very specialized exercise... A generalized forum, even one that focuses on military aspects of medicine is a little bit removed from the intricacies of what you ask. Your budy in the army would have done you a better service by connecting you with a healthcare military recruiter. A recruiter will have far better chance of knowing the feasibility, technique, loop holes, and hoops to achieve this option.... I dare say, the first recruiter you speak to on this will probably say, "no, it's not possible... well, let me call my senior recruiter with more experience to find out...."

Military residency requires a "commission", this will require military clearance and background check. You will also have to undergo a complete military physical fitness examination. The process is not quick. I dare say, you would be hard pressed to find someone honestly describe it as a "scramble".....

Thanks Jack. He did places couple of calls on my behalf and was told its all filled position. He also said he was going to contact a recruiter if its a possibility but i guess not really knowing the intricasies is why i decided to post on this forum. After couple of posts, i quickly realized it might not be the brightest idea. I have since secured interview for a traditional rotating internship somewhere else. My last post was just in response to the ignorant comment made by the OP.

Thanks again.

[Gastrapathy]

Originally Posted by JackADeli

I appreciate there is sometimes good information and general advice throughout these forums. However, scrambling into a military residency from a non-military/civilian status is a very specialized exercise... A generalized forum, even one that focuses on military aspects of medicine is a little bit removed from the intricacies of what you ask. Your budy in the army would have done you a better service by connecting you with a healthcare military recruiter. A recruiter will have far better chance of knowing the feasibility, technique, loop holes, and hoops to achieve this option.... I dare say, the first recruiter you speak to on this will probably say, "no, it's not possible... well, let me call my senior recruiter with more experience to find out...."

Military residency requires a "commission", this will require military clearance and background check. You will also have to undergo a complete military physical fitness examination. The process is not quick. I dare say, you would be hard pressed to find someone honestly describe it as a "scramble".....

This is just not something a recruiter would even be able to start. The process for getting a position outside the match (Navy-wise) starts at the Chief of the Medical Corps office. No recruiter is going to make this happen. I don't think its possible but, if a senior surgical PD really wanted another intern, he/she could call the specialty leader, who, in turn, could call BUMED. More than likely this gets shot down at any or all of those hurdles but it has a 0% chance of success via a recruiter of any flavor.

In general, I don't disagree with folks here that this is a bad idea but there are plenty of threads out there about why that is and, if after all that, a poster wants to try to go forward, so be it.

[JackADeli]

Originally Posted by JackADeli

...A recruiter will have far better chance of knowing the feasibility, technique, loop holes, and hoops to achieve this option.... the first recruiter ...will probably say, "no, it's not possible... well, let me call my senior recruiter with more experience to find out...."...

I don't disagree at all. My point was that a recruiter would very likely shoot it down upfront because beyond their experience/pay grade/authority/etc... However, some may hand it off to someone else higher up, etc.... Again, to be shot down/death blow by someone else, etc... But, the recruiter is likely the first and/or only entry point for conversation stemming from a classmate. Unless, the scrambler knew a PD and/or other individuals within the system. But, still would anticipate a shoot down.

[a1qwerty55]

Originally Posted by funshi baba

So for a comment such as that made by the "regular poster", i felt it was totally uncalled for, insensitive, and speak to no credit of him/her. I have gained from the discussion on this thread up till that point.

As you point out, there are more than performance reasons why someone doesn't match in the program the want. As an aside, I'm not sure the Pillsbury doughboy avatar gives you a lot of credibility as an up and coming surgeon.

It sounds like you overreached given your board scores and the reality that many programs are going to shy away from DO applicants. When I see the FMG's that match in some of the inner city surgical programs, I'm surprised you didn't match anywhere. Maybe you should have considered Detroit as a fall back. Anyway, no offense intended but I get my hackles up when people start looking to the military to give them training they otherwise couldn't get in the civilian sector.
Best wishes in the scramble