disciplinary action, what to do?

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Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Hi. Thank you in advance for your advice. I go to a prestigious enough school and my grades and scores are generally good. However, I have received two disciplinary notices in my first two years. I have depression and was written up for sobbing in class - no joke. I don't agree with the school's decision, but what can I do at this point? Should I try to appeal or just move on? How will this affect the match? Must I include this information? Thank you again for your suggestions.

Your first stop after you read this is in your Dean of Student's office where you can get the best information to help you in your specific situation. A public message board is not going to be useful since we don't know (and don't want to know) your personal business.

Your Dean of Students can help you get the counseling and specific information that you need to get beyond this and to get your career back on track. There is nothing that anyone can tell you here that will apply to you. At this point, you need to see someone in administration at your school.

Plenty of people have difficulties that spill over into their coursework during first years. What you don't want to do is to keep on this track that is causing you to receive disciplinary actions. Please get some help from someone who is in a position to help you (and get rid of the infractions) if you get things taken care of.

In terms of the Match, whether you say anything or not, your school will unless you get this taken care of. You can have the best scores in the world but disciplinary infractions are serious and indication that you need to take some serious actions in terms of what is going on in your life and career.

Get this taken care of now while there is time before you have to enter the Match. Your Dean of Student Affairs is your first stop. Once you know your options, then you can take action to get this stuff removed and keep your career on track.

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Ask if you can have the sobbing disciplinary report removed from you record. What exactly did they call it on the report? Man that's cold. More importantly, if you have depression that is out of control enough to cause public outbursts, you should really be getting help. Are you under the care of a psychiatrist? If not you should be ASAP. What was the other infraction for?

Appeal everything you can. Get them off your record.

Originally Posted by TexasPhysician

Appeal everything you can. Get them off your record.

Yeah, i can see some lawyer bringing this up 20 years from now in a malpractice trial if its still on your record.

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Hi. Thank you in advance for your advice. I go to a prestigious enough school and my grades and scores are generally good. However, I have received two disciplinary notices in my first two years. I have depression and was written up for sobbing in class - no joke. I don't agree with the school's decision, but what can I do at this point? Should I try to appeal or just move on? How will this affect the match? Must I include this information? Thank you again for your suggestions.

This sounds really strange. You started crying in lecture and the first instinct of the lecturer was to go to the deans office and file a report? Who does that ? for all they knew you could have had a death in your family? Also that the lecturer even knew who you were. What did they do ask people who was that person who ran out of here crying?.

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Thanks... I emailed the Dean to set up an appointment. I think she is sympathetic to the fact that my crying was secondary to a disease and unintended. Well, I'll just have to hope for the best then. Maybe she can help me.

There's something about how you used that phrase "secondary to a disease" that strikes me as incredibly wrong. Depending on the next incarnation of the DSM, almost anything could be considered a disease. Regardless of the clinical definition, the actions are the same, and as future physicians we are held to a higher standard. If someone has ADHD and has trouble concentrating, that shouldn't excuse them from paying attention to their patients. If someone is depressed and just doesn't want to go into work that day, it shouldn't excuse them from their responsibilities. If someone has an addiction and shows up to work intoxicated, it shouldn't excuse them from any mistakes they make because of it.

I know that it's a bit off topic, and it's not that I don't have empathy for your situation and think you should get appropriate treatment for it - I do - but at some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves and not pass off blame to a DSM diagnosis.

As far as advice goes, try to get it off your record - most schools want their students to do well and will try to put you in the most positive light possible unless they think you're going to reflect poorly on the school. And see a therapist, start appropriate medication, etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Here is the full story: We have some 12-person small groups, and I was crying at the beginning of the session when the group leader walked in. She told me to go to Student Health - I did so and made an appointment. A couple days later I found out from the course director that I was being written up for "distracting the group."

That might work if someone comes to class late, but for me it just made me much more depressed. I can't believe they never asked why I was crying or tried to help. I agree it's not acceptable to be a basketcase at work but this was a one time occasion -maybe a warning or putting me in touch with services would have been more appropriate...

Now I'm afraid I don't stand a chance in the match if I even graduate at all. Don't make the mistake that I did.

This group leader sounds like a complete *****.

Originally Posted by johnnydrama

There's something about how you used that phrase "secondary to a disease" that strikes me as incredibly wrong. Depending on the next incarnation of the DSM, almost anything could be considered a disease. Regardless of the clinical definition, the actions are the same, and as future physicians we are held to a higher standard. If someone has ADHD and has trouble concentrating, that shouldn't excuse them from paying attention to their patients. If someone is depressed and just doesn't want to go into work that day, it shouldn't excuse them from their responsibilities. If someone has an addiction and shows up to work intoxicated, it shouldn't excuse them from any mistakes they make because of it.

I know that it's a bit off topic, and it's not that I don't have empathy for your situation and think you should get appropriate treatment for it - I do - but at some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves and not pass off blame to a DSM diagnosis.

But it did not effect her performance, she was just in small group (a complete waste of time btw). She passed the course, which is all she needs to be doing in the first two years. If it will affect her clinical performance that will be evaluated in third year by attendings who will have worked with her and it is their job to report on her clinical performance. So why is this small group leader who may have never even met her prior to this incident running off to file a report. It just seems like an incredibly douchy thing to do.

Originally Posted by sugardad

But it did not effect her performance, she was just in small group (a complete waste of time btw). She passed the course, which is all she needs to be doing in the first two years. If it will affect her clinical performance that will be evaluated in third year by attendings who will have worked with her and it is their job to report on her clinical performance. So why is this small group leader who may have never even met her prior to this incident running off to file a report. It just seems like an incredibly douchy thing to do.

Douchy or not, it would be a lot worse if no one said anything and the OP did not have the impetus to address her issues until they affected clinical or resident performance.

Originally Posted by GladifImakeit

Here is the full story: We have some 12-person small groups, and I was crying at the beginning of the session when the group leader walked in. She told me to go to Student Health - I did so and made an appointment. A couple days later I found out from the course director that I was being written up for "distracting the group."

That might work if someone comes to class late, but for me it just made me much more depressed. I can't believe they never asked why I was crying or tried to help. I agree it's not acceptable to be a basketcase at work but this was a one time occasion -maybe a warning or putting me in touch with services would have been more appropriate...

Now I'm afraid I don't stand a chance in the match if I even graduate at all. Don't make the mistake that I did.

Bad idea to put your personal business out on a public message board. Things stay on the internet forever. You may be able to get these actions against you removed but your discussion of them will stay. Please don't make your situation worse by writing about it here. Medicine is a very small community.

Again, you need to take care of your situation with your school administration who is in a situation to help you. There is nothing here that can help you. To keep elaborating on your situation can come back to "bite you". Don't compound your problem as you have enough to deal with now.

Get your stuff taken care of and move on.

Originally Posted by Mr hawkings

Yeah, i can see some lawyer bringing this up 20 years from now in a malpractice trial if its still on your record.

Won't even take 20 years to affect you. I just got some papers from my residency program specifically asking about past discretionary behavior in med school, life, etc. They want forms on EVERYTHING!

Originally Posted by TexasPhysician

Won't even take 20 years to affect you. I just got some papers from my residency program specifically asking about past discretionary behavior in med school, life, etc. They want forms on EVERYTHING!

wait.. can you elaborate please?

OP.. im sorry your small group leader was such a douchy a*ss.... for us small groups are mandatory and you never know what someone is going through.... writing you up for something stupid like that instead of just letting your dean know or adviser or something seems like coldhearted and mean to me.. i thought as physicians we are supposed to be compassionate and empathetic??

Originally Posted by ar2388

wait.. can you elaborate please?

Before I've even gotten my residency contract, I've gotten many informational forms. They ask things like:
1. Have any disciplinary actions been taken against you in medical school?
2. Marks on your medical school record?
3. Legal problems?
4. etc. etc.

I already sent in the paperwork, so that's paraphrasing. I'm not sure what kind of consequences there would be though.