What we've learned in researching Caribbean medical schools

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I agree that taking longer certainly doesn't seem as impressive, but as far as 9 months, I explained my rationale above as to how I don't see that as realistic. I believe you are thinking of a true foreign grad when you write about that length of time.....as in a foreign national studying in a foreign country. If some SGU kids take 4 months, so be it. I personally believe that the longer you take, the less it helps as you begin to forget some things.

Also, don't necessarily believe that EVERY US school gets 8 weeks to study. I would say the vast majority give you 8 weeks if you want it, but things are always variable. I think anything more than 8 weeks is a waste of time, but to each their own.

Finally, don't be so hard on Carib students if they study for 3 months, or even 4. Carib students get HIGHLY discriminated against in the residency process, so if some Carib student gets 4 more weeks than a US student, I think we can call it on the road to even. Not to mention I really doubt any US med student was consistently reading First Aid or Rapid Review by candlelight, which I had to do multiple times due to rolling blackouts on SXM.

Originally Posted by CaribKid

I agree that taking longer certainly doesn't seem as impressive, but as far as 9 months, I explained my rationale above as to how I don't see that as realistic. I believe you are thinking of a true foreign grad when you write about that length of time.....as in a foreign national studying in a foreign country. If some SGU kids take 4 months, so be it. I personally believe that the longer you take, the less it helps as you begin to forget some things.

Also, don't necessarily believe that EVERY US school gets 8 weeks to study. I would say the vast majority give you 8 weeks if you want it, but things are always variable. I think anything more than 8 weeks is a waste of time, but to each their own.

Finally, don't be so hard on Carib students if they study for 3 months, or even 4. Carib students get HIGHLY discriminated against in the residency process, so if some Carib student gets 4 more weeks than a US student, I think we can call it on the road to even. Not to mention I really doubt any US med student was consistently reading First Aid or Rapid Review by candlelight, which I had to do multiple times due to rolling blackouts on SXM.

You don't think students taking double the time to prep for step 1 might have a substantially positive impact on their step 1 scores?

I'm not being hard on Carib students if they study for 4 months. I was simply pointing out that the step 1 scores are less impressive if they studied twice as long as the average MD student, and probably three times as long as the avg DO student who chooses to take the USMLE. It isn't about getting even. Obviously Carib students have a tougher row to hoe in the match, but they probably knew that before they entered medical school. I don't see how the amount of time studying for it shouldn't be taken into consideration -- perhaps it already is taken into consideration by residency directors? Who knows?

You're missing my point. I am saying that a Carib student who is on federal loans (e.g. someone from AUC, Ross, SGU) doesn't study for 9 months. It doesn't happen. Now, maybe there is an exception due to some thing weird, but 99% of students CANNOT do this. A doc from India trying to get a US residency can, but not Carib students.

Have you taken Step 1? I can tell you thatr the farther out from basic sciences you are, the harder it is. You are trying to remember 2 years of information. The farther out you get, the more you forget, as much as you learn new material. Now, if you take 9 months to try and memorize FA, will that get you a better score? Maybe. But again, for a Carib student, this is a completely irrelevant discussion, because it does not happen.

Also, please keep in mind Step 1 is just one part of an application. Sure, an incredibly important part, but not the end all be all. A few weeks either way in study time would be a ridiculous reason to base an interview invite on. As far as DO students, they are studying for the COMLEX as well, which is not entirely different from the USMLE. It's not like they are studying math for two months, then have to turn around and take an English Lit exam in three weeks.

I graduated from AUC and most students I know study for about 4 - 6 weeks max for step 1. I'm not sure where you are getting your figures. If they take multiple months off, their loans go into repayment.

A medical student spends 10,000+ hours doing school work, studying and rotating over 4 years.

It takes maybe 100 hours to study from scratch to a 30+ on the MCAT. Your wife is afraid of doing poorly again, I get it. But if she's afraid of that she shouldn't be in medical school--end of story.

If you think your prospects are better than U.S. D.O. students you are being willfully ignorant.

This is going to end tragically. See you in 6 years after she's unemployed and you have 500k in debt.

Originally Posted by Textbookversion

If you think your prospects are better than U.S. D.O. students you are being willfully ignorant.

As an MD, I will never have to explain my degree to a layperson. Also, there are many developed countries in the world that will not recognize a DO degree - Australia etc... This was an important factor in my choice to attend AUC vs US DO.

I do agree with you that it is infinitely easier to get a residency coming from a US school, though. I remember talking to US peers during clinicals that had lower scores than me and dozens of interviews (compared to my 14). This is an unfortunate reality for Caribbean grads.

Originally Posted by Slaol

As an MD, I will never have to explain my degree to a layperson. Also, there are many developed countries in the world that will not recognize a DO degree - Australia etc....

But when that same layperson asks you where you went to med school, and you say, "some school on a small island in the Carribean"..............that doesn't exactly sound glamorous or reassuring to that same layperson who you are so afraid may look down on you for having DO next to your name.

Originally Posted by LoudBark

But when that same layperson asks you where you went to med school, and you say, "some school on a small island in the Carribean"..............that doesn't exactly sound glamorous or reassuring to that same layperson who you are so afraid may look down on you for having DO next to your name.

The general reaction I get from laypeople is jealousy that I got to live in paradise for two years. I don't think most people outside of medical academia look down on US Caribbean grads. (I also don't think people look down in DO docs, either)

Originally Posted by Slaol

As an MD, I will never have to explain my degree to a layperson. Also, there are many developed countries in the world that will not recognize a DO degree - Australia etc... This was an important factor in my choice to attend AUC vs US DO.

I do agree with you that it is infinitely easier to get a residency coming from a US school, though. I remember talking to US peers during clinicals that had lower scores than me and dozens of interviews (compared to my 14). This is an unfortunate reality for Caribbean grads.

If you did what makes you happy then that is good. This comment is not so much for you as for the person reading your comments who is earlier in the process who may overvalue them relative to their own future planes. In the seven years I've had my "D.O." swinging out there for people to see (IDs, business cards, and lab coats) I still don't think I've gotten to one hand the number of times I've been asked what it meant. The times I have been asked have never been a circumstance in which I was being asked to prove I was a doctor, rather, more "Dr. J-Rad, I'm curious what that means". All answerable in 30 seconds or less. But more important than that subjective experience is the fact that an "MD" does not buy priveledges in other countries just because it's an MD. Many countries make hoops for foreign trained docs to jump through whether they are MD, DO, MBBS, MBBCh, etc. And generally, most US citizens people don't train in the states to go practice full time in another country. I don't find either of those two reasons overly compelling to take the risk of Caribbean over a US school.

Must we always compare US MD, DO, IMG and belittle one another? Geez louise!

At the end of the day, we are ALL practicing medicine OR in the pursuit of our medical dreams. There is no need to put others down because of the 2 letters printed on their degrees or lab coats.

We have all been to the doctor growing up and I'm sure that we nor our parents ever once asked the physician, "Hey! What school did you graduate from?" It was always the assumption that if you are a doctor working at XYZ hospital, center, or clinic, then YOU WORKED DARN HARD TO GET TO THIS POSITION. PERIOD!

So, PLEASE, quit this elementary school mentality by trying to belittle others who went to non-competitive or IMG MD schools OR DO schools. We're all taking the same USMLEs Step 1, 2, and 3 at the end of the day. No matter the school, you are given an opportunity, and it is up to YOU to make the best of it to pass. No matter the school, you must still STUDY HARD! No matter the school, YOU WILL RUB SHOULDERS WITH FOLKS FROM SO CALLED TOP TIER MD, DO, AND CARIB/IMG DURING YOUR ROTATIONS AND RESIDENCIES. LIKE IT OR NOT!

MEDICAL SCHOOL IS HARD! PERIOD! No matter where one went to study, if you made it as far as passing your boards to become a certified physician (MD/DO) practicing in the United States, then my hat goes off to you! I RESPECT YOU! It takes courage, skills, and lots of talent to achieve such a goal and we should ALL be proud of each other for that; not belittle one another.

Adios!

If you pass the licensing exams, you are an equal in my eyes, no matter where your degree came from or what initials are behind your name. Sure, the deck is stacked against you more if you go offshore, but if you make it through, it doesn't matter anymore where you went. It's ultimately all about being a competent clinician.

Originally Posted by Unzbuzzled

If you pass the licensing exams, you are an equal in my eyes, no matter where your degree came from or what initials are behind your name. Sure, the deck is stacked against you more if you go offshore, but if you make it through, it doesn't matter anymore where you went. It's ultimately all about being a competent clinician.

Originally Posted by DanGee777

You don't think students taking double the time to prep for step 1 might have a substantially positive impact on their step 1 scores?

I'm not being hard on Carib students if they study for 4 months. I was simply pointing out that the step 1 scores are less impressive if they studied twice as long as the average MD student, and probably three times as long as the avg DO student who chooses to take the USMLE. It isn't about getting even. Obviously Carib students have a tougher row to hoe in the match, but they probably knew that before they entered medical school. I don't see how the amount of time studying for it shouldn't be taken into consideration -- perhaps it already is taken into consideration by residency directors? Who knows?

They really aren't less impressive to program directors. No one needs to know how "long" it took you to study for the step 1. Don't get scared by the "oh i only studied a few weeks and got a 240". People lie all the time about how long it took them just to sound more impressive. Take as long as you think is reasonable to achieve your target score.

Thank you very much for your post... I finished up my getting a master in biology in august and applied to multiple state schools. I was wait listed due to my MCAT score and have no desire to retake it... I have been thinking about Caribbean programs and my apprehensions were mostly based on talk I have heard about the placement for Caribbean students once back in the states.. Your post answered a lot of my questions and I appreciate you sharing your findings... I have worked hard and will surely not be one to fail out of one of these programs because I know the hard work it will take at any medical school to become a successful physician.. I hope your wife is successful in her pursuit of becoming a physician and I wish the best for you an your family... Let me know how things are going I would like to know what you guys decided to do. Thanks again, Michael

Hey I thought your reply to your comment on this thread, it was very informative... I recently got my master in biology and applied to multiple state schools and got wait listed due to my MCAT score I had a 3.9 out of my biomedical master program but have some trouble in verbal reasoning I really have no desire to retake the MCAT.. I have been thinking about a Caribbean program but have some apprehension due to the fight for residency that will take place once I get back to the states. I know my work ethic and knowledge is spot on now and as you had said I made bad decisions in my first few years of undergrad but after getting through a tough grad program I know I am prepared to take on the work load required in medical school. Let me know how things are going for you I am really thinking about applying to AUC and would like to get some more advice. Thanks again, Michael

I am worried about her score of 5 on verbal reasoning, however. There is a ton of material to read and comprehend as part of the curriculum.
[/QUOTE]

I took an accelerated one year bio-medical masters program and graduated with a 3.9 gpa.... I did terrible on the verbal section of the MCAT, received a 6 .. Doing poorly on this section of the exam does not correlate to one having the inability comprehend the curriculum of a medical school course load. Reading text books and notes provided by professor is not like reading an obscure 5 paragraph passage about Aristotle's view on religion or politics and answering 5-6 questions written to trip you up in a whopping total of 3 minutes a passage.. It is science, the same science any med school students reads and learns about.

Last time I checked you were not given a hour to read a chapter covering (lets say) the txn factors that cause the development of the sensory nervous system and made to take the exam covering that material directly after... You are given time to study and LEARN the material. How you choose to spend your time is your own choice.. I took endocrinology, physiology, immunology, developmental neurology, microbiology ect.. in the masters program I attended and was able to comprehend the material just fine.. It all comes down to the hours of studying you choose to put in... If she was able to grad w the gpa he said she had she can handle medical school in any format... Doing poorly on the MCAT does not mean you can not handle a course load and perform well in clinical rotations.. some people are better at standardized testing than others.. and comparing the MCAT to the USMLE is a joke.

"The USMLE assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to determine fundamental patient-centered skills that are important in health and disease and that constitute the basis of safe and effective patient care."

It has hardly correlates to type of material tested on the MCAT.

I'm attending medical school in the Carib, and to be brutally honest, there are a lot of dumb people here. Carib schools let in pretty much anyone with a pulse. I'm not trying to be mean, but it is what it is.
So it all comes down to your STEP score. Once you pass the STEP then you're as good as any US grad.

Originally Posted by magdellan

I'm attending medical school in the Carib, and to be brutally honest, there are a lot of dumb people here. Carib schools let in pretty much anyone with a pulse. I'm not trying to be mean, but it is what it is.
So it all comes down to your STEP score. Once you pass the STEP then you're as good as any US grad.

Read on your blog that the school cut off all the popular websites like facebook, tumblr, instagram etc. Is that what they do just so you study more?

Originally Posted by Medstart108

Read on your blog that the school cut off all the popular websites like facebook, tumblr, instagram etc. Is that what they do just so you study more?

Haha. Partly. But mostly because they're trying to limit the bandwidth used by students. Perks of living on an island include crappy internet.

This is not even remotely close to the truth.

Originally Posted by magdellan

So it all comes down to your STEP score. Once you pass the STEP then you're as good as any US grad.

Originally Posted by magdellan

I'm attending medical school in the Carib, and to be brutally honest, there are a lot of dumb people here. Carib schools let in pretty much anyone with a pulse. I'm not trying to be mean, but it is what it is.
So it all comes down to your STEP score. Once you pass the STEP then you're as good as any US grad.

Originally Posted by prefontaine

This is not even remotely close to the truth.

Expanding further on this...

I'd like to know, magdellan, exactly what you meant by "you're as good as any US grad" and to expand on what prefontaine said.

Reading your other posts above, magdellan, I would generally agree with the fact that, down the road, your future colleagues will judge you by your clinical acumen and not where you went to school. However, there are many hurdles and obstacles in the way before you get there. This is what I think prefontaine was responding to.

It will be much harder for you to get a choice residency spot. It's going to continue to get harder. I was lucky to get into a very good anesthesiology residency way-back-when in 2005. I doubt I could get that same spot now.

But, at the same time I was going through the Match, I never harbored any illusion that I was going to get a spot at UCSF or Columbia or Hopkins. Never in my cards. I knew in that regard that I would never be seen to be "as good as any US grad" even if I had scored 270+ on both Steps.

So, that's what I think those of us who've been posting here for 10+ years keep harping on over and over again. Do not go to the Caribbean thinking that you are going to get into a top tier residency program in a choice city. Do not go thinking you are going to get Derm, Ortho, Plastics, ENT, RadOnc,or Neurosurgery after you graduate. Despite the rare anecdotes, it's just not going happen for you. Go with that in mind.

If you go with the belief that you are likely going to get into Internal Medicine and a decent or low-tier University program, or some other not "choice" residency somewhere, you may have a shot. This does not mean that you are seen as "equal" in the eyes of program directors everywhere, just because you've passed the Steps.

I was lucky that I got into my field. But, it was planned "luck" that went with a lot of effort, a stacked resume, good connections, and a residency program that was willing to take a chance on me - not because I was seen as "equal" to a US grad. That is the reality.

-Skip

Originally Posted by Skip Intro

Expanding further on this...

I'd like to know, magdellan, exactly what you meant by "you're as good as any US grad" and to expand on what prefontaine said.

Reading your other posts above, magdellan, I would generally agree with the fact that, down the road, your future colleagues will judge you by your clinical acumen and not where you went to school. However, there are many hurdles and obstacles in the way before you get there. This is what I think prefontaine was responding to.

It will be much harder for you to get a choice residency spot. It's going to continue to get harder. I was lucky to get into a very good anesthesiology residency way-back-when in 2005. I doubt I could get that same spot now.

But, at the same time I was going through the Match, I never harbored any illusion that I was going to get a spot at UCSF or Columbia or Hopkins. Never in my cards. I knew in that regard that I would never be seen to be "as good as any US grad" even if I had scored 270+ on both Steps.

So, that's what I think those of us who've been posting here for 10+ years keep harping on over and over again. Do not go to the Caribbean thinking that you are going to get into a top tier residency program in a choice city. Do not go thinking you are going to get Derm, Ortho, Plastics, ENT, RadOnc,or Neurosurgery after you graduate. Despite the rare anecdotes, it's just not going happen for you. Go with that in mind.

If you go with the belief that you are likely going to get into Internal Medicine and a decent or low-tier University program, or some other not "choice" residency somewhere, you may have a shot. This does not mean that you are seen as "equal" in the eyes of program directors everywhere, just because you've passed the Steps.

I was lucky that I got into my field. But, it was planned "luck" that went with a lot of effort, a stacked resume, good connections, and a residency program that was willing to take a chance on me - not because I was seen as "equal" to a US grad. That is the reality.

-Skip

I do not disagree with any of the points you made. It is a lot harder. But it's not impossible. My school just posted its 2013 Match results: http://www.eustatiusmed.edu/our-prog...acements-2013/ and the top placements are in family, psych and internal med. There's even one in derm. That will be me one day lol

I just found this thread and was surprised that it was still alive after 2 years. I am not sure if anyone is aware of it, but the OP and his wife did go to AUC. A couple of people here were predicting that she would fail the school because of her poor MCAT. Well, she has not. She is about to start her clinical rotations. This family did go through some tough times because of health issues, but they continue with their quest. If anyone is interested, the husband has a blog http://www.thecrookstons.com/ . I wish them all the best.

Originally Posted by LadyEMT

Must we always compare US MD, DO, IMG and belittle one another? Geez louise!

At the end of the day, we are ALL practicing medicine OR in the pursuit of our medical dreams. There is no need to put others down because of the 2 letters printed on their degrees or lab coats.

We have all been to the doctor growing up and I'm sure that we nor our parents ever once asked the physician, "Hey! What school did you graduate from?" It was always the assumption that if you are a doctor working at XYZ hospital, center, or clinic, then YOU WORKED DARN HARD TO GET TO THIS POSITION. PERIOD!

So, PLEASE, quit this elementary school mentality by trying to belittle others who went to non-competitive or IMG MD schools OR DO schools. We're all taking the same USMLEs Step 1, 2, and 3 at the end of the day. No matter the school, you are given an opportunity, and it is up to YOU to make the best of it to pass. No matter the school, you must still STUDY HARD! No matter the school, YOU WILL RUB SHOULDERS WITH FOLKS FROM SO CALLED TOP TIER MD, DO, AND CARIB/IMG DURING YOUR ROTATIONS AND RESIDENCIES. LIKE IT OR NOT!

MEDICAL SCHOOL IS HARD! PERIOD! No matter where one went to study, if you made it as far as passing your boards to become a certified physician (MD/DO) practicing in the United States, then my hat goes off to you! I RESPECT YOU! It takes courage, skills, and lots of talent to achieve such a goal and we should ALL be proud of each other for that; not belittle one another.

Adios!

Great post

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by cjcrook

I thought I would share some of the things my wife and I have learned in researching the option to go to medical school in the Caribbean. Hopefully this may help someone else. I don't believe that I'm going to share anything earth shattering, but yet it did take a lot of digging and I'm happy to help someone avoid the same level of effort.

My wife is 33 years old. Our kids are 12, 10 and 1.5. She gradated two years ago from a local State university. Her GPA was 3.8 with 3.7 in the sciences. By the time she graduated she had racked up a seriously impressive list of extra curricular activities, cancer research, volunteer hours at the hospital, community involvement, leadership, and even a shadowing internship at the local hospital in which she spent ten hours a day for a month with a variety of specialists. She had strong letters of recommendation from her faculty adviser, from her research adviser, and from several physicians who she had shadowed. So far it was the medical school application from heaven.

She was pregnant when she took the MCAT, and when she got her score, it was a serious blow. 20. Science 8, Physics 6, Language 5.

The obvious course of action was to take it again, but before that would be possible, we had our third child. By the time she was recovered enough to think about getting ready to re-take, that just didn't feel like the right thing to do. We're not getting any younger, and rather than take the time to retake the MCAT, we decided together to try and find a school that would accept her as is. Also, her desire is not to be in the upper echelons of doctors at a world famous clinic. She will be perfectly happy at a hospital in a mid sized city.

We looked into MD schools in the states and ruled them out. None of them would take a 20 MCAT score. She applied to almost a dozen DO schools and got the same response: "Your application is impressive, when you have a new MCAT score please reapply."

Reluctantly, we began to look at Caribbean schools. The more we looked into this option, the more we set out our fears aside. Granted, we had reservations, but overall we came to conclude that it was a path that would allow her to meat her goals. When I say "we looked into this option", here's what I mean:

• We have three personal friends who are MD's. One is a general practitioner, one is an OBGYN and one is a radiologist. We asked all three their opinions on Caribbean schools. The general practitioner was strongly negative towards the idea. The radiologist was neutral, and the OBGYN said it's a solid, viable option.

• All three said they knew docs in the area who had gone to school in the Caribbean, and all of them are respected physicians who excel in their field. We asked our friends to facilitate an introduction, and in the cases where that was possible, we asked the Caribbean grads deep, probing questions.

• We got online and did some preliminary research and quickly decided to limit our scope to the top 3 schools. We noticed that AUC was going to host an open house near our home, so we went. We were favorably impressed.

• Based on cost, class size, and location, we decided to limit our focus to AUC.

• We found blogs from current and past students and read them all. We emailed the owners of the blogs and asked them the same kind of probing questions we asked the Caribbean graduate MD's in our area.

• We called AUC and asked them the same questions.

Based on all this research, here are the conclusions to which we came. These are not iron clad, scientific findings. You may dispute them, and if so, that's fine. But we think these are based on a solid understanding of AUC, and likely the other top Caribbean schools as well.

Passing the USMLE's:

• AUC boasts a 94% pass rate on the USMLE's. While that's impressive, it's also misleading. That number represents the students who sit for the exam and pass, and not the number of incoming freshman who eventually pass. (The reports on the percentages of incoming freshman who ended up sitting for the exam were so varied depending on who we asked that it wouldn't be fair to speculate. The best estimates were 85% and the worst were 60%.)

• A shockingly high number of students either drop out or flunk out before taking the first round of exams. Every school has drop-out's and flunk-outs, but AUC's (and all Caribbean schools??) rate is really high. AUC representatives would try to evade this question, but the students and grads we emailed were more open about this yet were unable to give exact percentages.

• The drop-outs were typically kids who showed up on the island believing that because AUC was easier to get into, that it would therefor be easy to get through as well. They thought it was the "easy" path to MD. When they learned that there was serious work involved, they bailed.

• The flunk-outs were kids who got too involved in the trappings of island life, didn't study enough, and were shown the door when grades came out.

• And there are always just some students who, upon getting into med school, decide it's not what they want, and for whatever personal reason, they opt out.

• Of the students who remain, all are required to take several practice USMLE's before the actual exams. Only those who do well on the practice tests can sit for the real thing. (From what we heard, most but not all pass the practice exams).

• By the time you've filtered out the drop-outs, the flunk-outs, the students who leave for personal reasons, and the students who just can't pass the practice exams, 94% of who's left pass their first round of USMLE's and move on to clinical rotations back in the States.

Matching for Residency:

• Just about every graduating class of AUC usually has a small number (ie:1-3) who end up in a highly competitive, prestigious residency.

• Roughly 40% to 50% get their first choice of match. But keep in mind that these students are realistic about their "first choice" and usually don't apply to Johns Hopkins, Mayo, or Cleveland Clinic. But still, they are getting into the same programs as kids from second and third tier MD schools in the States, and in many cases are beating out the DO school grads.

• Most of the others still match, just not their first choice. Keep in mind that some who did not get their first choice did, in fact, apply to the top tier programs in hopes of a miracle.

• A certain percentage don't match at all. This is typically because their rotations were disastrous, usually due to personality reasons. They did fine in a classroom and on exams, but in an actual hospital, they just couldn't perform. Nobody would write them a letter of recommendation.

Actual Jobs:

• Our friend the radiologist sits on the board which hires new recruits out of residency. He said they don't care where their recruits went to school or where they did their residency. They care about 1) Are they licensed to practice, 2) Are they board certified, 3) Do they come with strong letters out of residency, and 4) Do they interview well. They have never had a Caribbean school student apply, but if one ever does, they would not hold that against them.

• The Caribbean grads who we met are now practicing in solid careers and enjoying a comfortable life. They work for impressive clinics, practices and hospitals in a market of 100,000 people that is an hour outside the Twin Cities. They have no regrets about where they went to school.

• AUC grads seem to congregate in certain locations such as NYC. Don't think mid-town Manhattan. Think Brooklyn, Staten Island, and just outside the city on Long Island. There are also a high percentage in California. Think middle markets like Bakersfield. A smaller percentage scatter all over the country in between the coasts. During the open house we attended in Minneapolis, a general surgeon was scheduled to come meet us, but he was called into emergency surgery and couldn't make it.

Bottom line: If you are realistic about how hard you have to work, if you pass the USMLE's, and if you can include some leadership and extra curricular activities while in med school (ie: medical missions, leadership, etc), you stand a good chance of getting into a strong residency program. By "strong" I don't mean the super elite programs, just good the ones. If you don't get a "good" match, you should still get into a second or third tier program.

After residency, you should be able to enjoy a rewarding career as a doctor in your chosen field. Don't plan on being in the upper crust of the elite crowd, but do plan on being a good solid MD in a small or even medium sized market. By "small" I don't mean ultra-small-town rural. I mean towns like mine of ~100,000. And keep in mind that even the docs in these markets still make darn good money.

That's about it. Like I said... there is nothing scientific about all this. It's just our own conclusions based on what we think was some fairly vigorous research from people who are in the know.

Her application is in to AUC. We should know soon.

Thanks for reading .

Thank you so much for this! Although this wasn't earth shattering findings, I appreciate the time you took to write everything out and so well organized! This was very encouraging so thank you again

Originally Posted by magdellan

There's even one in derm. That will be me one day lol

I would not count on it.

Family practice? Psych? Internal medicine? Probably. Not trying to burst your bubble. I read your blog. You are a cute kid.

-Skip

Originally Posted by Skip Intro

I would not count on it.

Family practice? Psych? Internal medicine? Probably. Not trying to burst your bubble. I read your blog. You are a cute kid.

-Skip

As an AUC grad in a family medicine residency, I agree that most Caribbean grads go into primary care now-a-days. Those with good connections (family in certain fields, etc) and great board scores + great LOR can get into more competitive fields. Even then, it is a good idea to get plenty of interviews with primary care programs.

Even with good scores and LORs, Caribbean grads will automatically be lower on the rung than american grads. I remember rotating with American grads in my 4th year that had lower scores than me on the USMLE exams, yet had dozens of Family Medicine interviews (compared to my 14). This is a reality that people considering offshore schools should seriously consider. Not to mention the fact that it is estimated that there will be fewer residency spots than US grads by 2017 in the match.

My advice: Shoot for the moon, but be sure to cover your butt with realistic backups if you are planning for something like dermatology. (I know several people who did not match because they were too proud to pick IM/FM/Psych/Peds).

Originally Posted by Skip Intro

I would not count on it.

Family practice? Psych? Internal medicine? Probably. Not trying to burst your bubble. I read your blog. You are a cute kid.

-Skip

Also for the Derm match. There are 1 or 2 scenarios how it happened. 1. The person has some major, major connections. 2. The person has spent 2 maybe more doing research at the place they matched. My school had a Derm match a few years ago, know for a fact that person had spent 3 years working and doing Derm research at the place they matched at.

Also for everyone of these success stories there are many bad ones. I know a guy who has spent 2+ years doing Ortho research at one of the best Ortho programs in the country. Has 240+ on both step 1 and 2 has plenty of pubs and can't get an Ortho spot. They don't want him at the program he is at because some in the hierarchy refuse to take a Caribbean student. He is in a awful position, when he applied to family med, all he was asked about you have all this Ortho, so family is your back up.

Originally Posted by jackets5

Also for the Derm match. There are 1 or 2 scenarios how it happened. 1. The person has some major, major connections. 2. The person has spent 2 maybe more doing research at the place they matched. My school had a Derm match a few years ago, know for a fact that person had spent 3 years working and doing Derm research at the place they matched at.

Also for everyone of these success stories there are many bad ones. I know a guy who has spent 2+ years doing Ortho research at one of the best Ortho programs in the country. Has 240+ on both step 1 and 2 has plenty of pubs and can't get an Ortho spot. They don't want him at the program he is at because some in the hierarchy refuse to take a Caribbean student. He is in a awful position, when he applied to family med, all he was asked about you have all this Ortho, so family is your back up.

Aww that sucks... Horrible to be put in that position. Maybe he should apply to other ortho programs?

Originally Posted by Medstart108

Aww that sucks... Horrible to be put in that position. Maybe he should apply to other ortho programs?

No, I wasn't clear. He can't get a spot anywhere, he has applied for 3 years and got a total of 0,2,1 interviews each time. The program he's doing research at doesn't want him because of the Caribbean stigma and other places don't want someone who can't even get a spot at a place they have been doing research at for 2+ years. He's going to do family medicine with a sports medicine fellowship now but three years of his life are gone, with nothing tangible to show for it.

There are plenty of stories exactly like his. His is not an isolated incident.

Originally Posted by jackets5

No, I wasn't clear. He can't get a spot anywhere, he has applied for 3 years and got a total of 0,2,1 interviews each time. The program he's doing research at doesn't want him because of the Caribbean stigma and other places don't want someone who can't even get a spot at a place they have been doing research at for 2+ years. He's going to do family medicine with a sports medicine fellowship now but three years of his life are gone, with nothing tangible to show for it.

There are plenty of stories exactly like his. His is not an isolated incident.

Damn that sucks. I feel like this guy truly likes ortho and isn't doing it just for the money. He would probably get in if he was a Canadian citizen in Canada. Ortho isn't as competitive in canada precisely because it pays less than in the US but is exactly the same otherwise.