ABT: What does it really mean to be "fired"?

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So, I was looking at the Navy Times and saw this article (or list, as it were).

In the civilian world, getting "fired" means you can't come back - you don't get paid, you return your ID, and you are not welcome. But what does that mean in the military? For a CO or XO, do they now ride a desk until they are up for promotion, then are discharged under the High Year Tenure status, or are they eligible for other command jobs, or what? I would guess, although I have no data, that being "fired" would also get an NJP notation in the officer's file. However, since they got "fired", and didn't go to court martial, they couldn't be outright discharged. That, to me, makes me think there's a time limit enacted when getting "fired", since it is unlikely (or outright impossible in the Navy) to be promoted after disciplined.

And, likewise for the enlisted, since there is no court martial, what happens?

It generally means you are dismissed from whatever post you hold. What follows is separate but likely related to the circumstances of the firing. If it is for "losing the confidence" of your CO for something not illegal you (allegedly) did or didn't do or merely because you were proximate to some event that was embarrassing to the service, you probably would be removed to some out of sight job. There, you would be expected to remain out of sight until you completed your requisite service for whatever retirement you might be eligible for at earliest opportunity. If you were not close to retirement, you would likely be passed over for promotion (being fired usually entails receiving a career- damaging special fitness report) and then selected out at your second failure to promote. Most people would realize this well ahead of time and leave if they could. And just as in the Soviet system, persons later found to have been wrongly subject to "firing" could be "rehabilitated" in the bureaucratic sense by papering them up with awards or assignments meant to restore their career prospects. (I don't think they go to the extremes of airbrushing you out of official photographs, though.)

Misconduct, depending on the circumstances, could be treated formally, as by letters of caution, reprimand (a career-killer) or NJP (also a career-killer) or, if serious enough, be referred for court martial.

Thank you. And you made me chuckle early in this morning with the reference to being airbrushed out of pictures!

A question more to the meat, though (although I think I already know the answer): the captain of the ship gets fired when his ship hits something, even if he wasn't on the bridge (captain of the ship doctrine). So, some dope junior O-3 can screw your career right to the wall, and my guess is getting fired as CO for hitting another ship or boat is just that - end of the career. In the Navy, that doesn't get rehabbed.

However, I just thought of a guy with whom I'd worked - he was a torpedoman in the USN (he shot the last Mark-37 in the Navy!) who talked about a CO he had on the boat that did hit something, and this guy would have gotten away with it and not lost his command, because he was that good, but he lied about it, and that sank everything.

So, never say never, but, for most intents and purposes, "fired" is done.

The list makes you wonder whether there is some huge but nondescript building somewhere (Virginia, beyond the Beltway? On a decommissioned military base, somewhere?) with cavernous floorspace and hundreds of government grade metal desks, crummy fluorescent lighting and bad vending machine coffee to provide secluded workspace for the legions of the disgraced. Oh, and you gotta have everyone checking in with a time clock.

If that junior OOD hit something it means his training wasn't up to par or he didn't have the respect to follow the standing orders..... That's the underlying theme for maritime accidents

If you hit another Navy ship, it is a toofer, both COs get relieved.

There seems to be a black cloud hanging over the Cowpens.

Originally Posted by orbitsurgMD

The list makes you wonder whether there is some huge but nondescript building somewhere (Virginia, beyond the Beltway? On a decommissioned military base, somewhere?) with cavernous floorspace and hundreds of government grade metal desks, crummy fluorescent lighting and bad vending machine coffee to provide secluded workspace for the legions of the disgraced. Oh, and you gotta have everyone checking in with a time clock.

New York City had a setup like that for teachers - there were people in there that could not teach due to various infractions, but they could not fire them. They went there while awaiting review. They called them "rubber rooms". They were closed in 2010.

orbitsurgMD

The list makes you wonder whether there is some huge but nondescript building somewhere (Virginia, beyond the Beltway? On a decommissioned military base, somewhere?) with cavernous floorspace and hundreds of government grade metal desks, crummy fluorescent lighting and bad vending machine coffee to provide secluded workspace for the legions of the disgraced. Oh, and you gotta have everyone checking in with a time clock.

Yeah, it's called the "G" ring (basement level) of the Pentagon, where terminal O-5/O-6s chair operational planning teams to produce working papers that no one reads even as their dreams slowly wither on the vine...